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Speaker 1: Back to school, back to the education slog. We get

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Speaker 1: more results this week seem to confirm the pass rate

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Speaker 1: success we aim for an NCEEA is proving elusive. The

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Speaker 1: latest results are from the May tests. More than half

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Speaker 1: of the fifty five thousand who took part and the

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Speaker 1: literacy and numeracy test failed and now principles say it

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Speaker 1: might be time for a bit of a rethink here.

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Speaker 1: Education Minister Erica Stanford is back with this a very

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Speaker 1: good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning mate.

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Speaker 1: The results as you look at them, disappointing or not.

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Speaker 2: Of course they're disappointing. They've been disappointing for a number

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Speaker 2: of years. In fact, a number of decades. I've been dropping.

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Speaker 2: We know that and we've got to do something about it,

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Speaker 2: which is why you've seen me have my foot on

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Speaker 2: the accelerator recently.

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Speaker 1: As hard as that foot is on the accelerator, When

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Speaker 1: do we see some results?

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's going to take some time. We've got a

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Speaker 2: lot to make up. I think the key for me, though,

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Speaker 2: is we put this literacy and numerousy assessment in three

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Speaker 2: or four years ago, but did nothing at primary school

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Speaker 2: to change the trajectory of kids to get there. So

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Speaker 2: just putting in a test doesn't change anything. You've got

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Speaker 2: to do other things at the back end. So what

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Speaker 2: we've done is introduced a new curriculum, new teaching practices.

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Speaker 2: We've made sure that we're as testing our kids twice

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Speaker 2: a year. We're changing the way we train our teachers.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole range of levers that we're pulling to

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Speaker 2: make sure our kids at primary school next year we'll

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Speaker 2: be learning structured less mass and structured literacy to make

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Speaker 2: sure they can get there. So, yes, it will take

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Speaker 2: some time. It was always going to. If it started

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Speaker 2: this six or seven years ago, we wouldn't be in

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Speaker 2: this state.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So when the principals say it's time for a rethink,

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Speaker 1: can you seen pushback here? They want to make the

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Speaker 1: tests easy or whatever, or we all on board.

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Speaker 2: But I see it from their perspective because they are

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Speaker 2: trying their very best high school principles to get these

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Speaker 2: kids over the line. The starting point for high schools

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Speaker 2: is two kilometers back. These kids are coming in and

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Speaker 2: they're eighteen months or two years behind curriculum. It's really

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Speaker 2: hard for a high school teacher to get kids up

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Speaker 2: to standard. So I hear it from their perspective that

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Speaker 2: they want to make some changes to try and make

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Speaker 2: it easier or get rid of these tests. We have

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Speaker 2: to aim higher, We have to have aspiration for our

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Speaker 2: kids that they can get there and everything we can

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Speaker 2: to get them there, Because, Mike, these are functional foundational

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Speaker 2: literacy and numeracy assessments. These are not something that you

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Speaker 2: have to aim for to get to by the time

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Speaker 2: you're fifteen or sixteen. They are aimed at either time

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Speaker 2: you finish intermediate or start high school. That's where they

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Speaker 2: are aimed at. They are relatively straightforward. You should be

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Speaker 2: able to pass, and then the fact that we can't

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Speaker 2: shows that we have a huge problem we've got to fix.

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Speaker 1: Is the disparity part of it? Well, I know it's

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Speaker 1: part of the problem. But so when European gets sixty

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Speaker 1: two percent pass right versus specific at forty four, is

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Speaker 1: sixty two on a tract to something reasonable or is

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Speaker 1: sixty two still hopeless?

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Speaker 2: Set two really still isn't great. Given as I just said,

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Speaker 2: this is something that's aimed at upper level for lower

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Speaker 2: level five of the curriculum, which is end of year

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Speaker 2: eight beginning of sort of year nineteen, it's not something

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Speaker 2: that you know, we should be seeing these results on

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Speaker 2: fifty percent at our our high DASYL schools. I think

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Speaker 2: it was sixty percent of NUMEROUSY at our high d

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Speaker 2: CEL schools. Indicates we still have a huge problem right

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Speaker 2: across the board.

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Speaker 1: I do excuse my ignorance because I've forgotten the number.

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Speaker 1: Is it eighty percent by twenty thirty that you're aiming for?

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Speaker 2: That's right, and we think we can get there because

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Speaker 2: that gives us a whole cohort of kids through primary

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Speaker 2: school using structured maths, structure literacy under the new curriculum.

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Speaker 2: What's the twice yearly assessments. Part of this other problem

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Speaker 2: we've got is these kids are sitting this assessment, this

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Speaker 2: literacy and NUMEROUSY assessment, and it can be the first

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Speaker 2: time you've ever actually set an exam. And so we've

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Speaker 2: got to start building that in And I actually said

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Speaker 2: to end VQA this week, I want you to start

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Speaker 2: creating some of these literacy and numerous THEY assessments, dummy

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Speaker 2: ones for year seven and eight, so our intermediate kids

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Speaker 2: can start understanding what's going to be required of them. Choos.

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Speaker 1: Is there any comfort to be drawn on reading Australia

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Speaker 1: NAP plan that they've got the same problem. One in

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Speaker 1: three performed below expectations and literacy and numerous receive forty

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Speaker 1: percent of year nine children fat, so that they're no

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Speaker 1: doing no better? Can we all just sit there and go, well,

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Speaker 1: we're all a bit useless or.

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Speaker 2: Well at COVID certainly hasn't helped things, but we have

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Speaker 2: been on a trajectory of decline for a very long

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Speaker 2: time and we should definitely be aiming higher. There's no

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Speaker 2: reason that our kids can't do better, and we've already

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Speaker 2: seen incredible results through structures are traceeed in reading and writing.

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Speaker 2: We've started to see it in mathematics with schools who

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Speaker 2: are using structured maths. I know we can get there.

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Speaker 2: We just have to pull all levers that I mentioned

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Speaker 2: earlier and things will change.

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Speaker 1: Good stuff, all right, Go well, Erica Stanford Education Minister there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. It's the disparity, is the thing.

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Speaker 1: When she goes eighty percent by twenty thirty, it's the disparity.

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Speaker 1: So if you're European at sixty two percent, can you

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Speaker 1: get to eighty percent of them passing? Sure? Asian fifty

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Speaker 1: three percent Pacific forty four numeracy. You're down at twenty three.

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Speaker 1: Twenty three percent of Pacific kids pass. How do you

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Speaker 1: go from twenty three to the majority of the part?

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Speaker 1: You know, that's a massive hall, wasn't it. For more

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Speaker 1: from The Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to News Talks

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