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Speaker 1: Hello, I am Paula Benett and welcome to my New

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Speaker 1: Zealand Herald podcast Ask Me Anything.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: One thing I've learned in life is it's never too

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Speaker 1: late to learn something new. So on this podcast, I've

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Speaker 1: talked to people from all walks of life to hear

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Speaker 1: about how they got to where they are and get

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Speaker 1: some advice and guidance on some of life's biggest questions.

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Speaker 1: On the podcast today, I'm joined by award winning journalist

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Speaker 1: and broadcaster Susie Ferguson. Susie has had a very interesting career.

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Speaker 1: Born in Scotland, trained in the UK, she has reported

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Speaker 1: and presented news all over the world. She became a

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Speaker 1: war correspondent, reporting from both Iraq and Afghanistan. Susie moved

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Speaker 1: to New Zealand in two thousand and nine and is

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Speaker 1: now best known as a host on Radio New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: Susie's written about her life and career in a book,

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Speaker 1: Bloody Minded, War, woman Hood and Finding My Voice.

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Speaker 3: So sy welcome, Kyota, thank you. It's great to have

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Speaker 3: you here. It's lovely to meet you in person as well.

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Speaker 2: We were staging. We've only even talked.

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Speaker 1: We've talked, we've talked, You've interviewed me, and then it's

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Speaker 1: so it's voice to voice, yeah, and meeting face to face.

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Speaker 2: Do you get recognized by your voice?

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Speaker 3: Yes. The good thing about radio is it's kind you're

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Speaker 3: kind of incognitive until you open your gob and say something,

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Speaker 3: and it's a very personal medium. Yes, and so I

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Speaker 3: guess you. You know, you talk to people like with podcasts,

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Speaker 3: you talk to people when they're in the bath or

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Speaker 3: in bed, or in the kitchen or on the toilet.

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Speaker 3: But you also talk to people in their cars. And

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Speaker 3: so that's usually the giveaway. If I get in a

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Speaker 3: cab and say something and you can just see the

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Speaker 3: way that someone's spine just slightly stiffens because they're listening.

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Speaker 3: You can see their ears slightly turned and they're how

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Speaker 3: many we listen to her? Is it's in the back

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Speaker 3: of the cab because recognize the voice.

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Speaker 1: But it is as you say, you know, like like

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Speaker 1: I carry you, I carry you with me in my

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Speaker 1: ears on a Saturday morning.

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Speaker 2: Guys, I'm doing my chores walking your dog. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: quite literally.

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Speaker 1: Okay, quick fig questions if you could if you go

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Speaker 1: to the pub for a drink with any celebrity, who

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Speaker 1: would it be.

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Speaker 2: Oh see.

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Speaker 3: I find this so hard because partly because I'm spoiled

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Speaker 3: on Saturday morning, because I get to talk to all

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Speaker 3: sorts of amazing people all the time, but also because

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Speaker 3: some of the people who are the most interesting and

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Speaker 3: who are unexpectedly the people that I really want to

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Speaker 3: spend time to and talk to, are not people that

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Speaker 3: I would have picked. I wouldn't have guessed, But I

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Speaker 3: was thinking about this over the weekend and I kind

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Speaker 3: of have to say, damn, Maggie Smith.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because she was.

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Speaker 3: A power and for so long, I must have seen

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Speaker 3: so much.

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Speaker 1: And they say she was quite directed down the real

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Speaker 1: wet and that you could see it in her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think she would have been amazing to go to.

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Speaker 1: Imagine if you got her in Dame Judy d She's

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Speaker 1: got the sparkle in her eye on the wet as well, and.

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Speaker 2: You wouldn't get a word in Edgeway. It's probably, but

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Speaker 2: that be all right. You just watch watch What would

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Speaker 2: your favorite drink? Bee? Ah?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you can't go past a glass of salve,

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Speaker 3: but you know, I'm not fussy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to go. Okay, you swore you'd need.

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Speaker 3: To write a book and never never write a book,

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Speaker 3: never climb everest, never on a marathon, and I'm not

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Speaker 3: doing the other two.

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Speaker 2: You are, I'm not doing the other two.

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Speaker 1: You could do a Kierie woem and decide didn't want

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Speaker 1: to a marathon at fifty I don't want to do

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Speaker 1: my knees.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't know that's not going to happen. So why the book? Then?

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Speaker 2: Why the book? Why the book? Well?

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Speaker 3: I did a podcast interview, funnily enough, and it was

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Speaker 3: off the back of that that a couple of publishers

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Speaker 3: got in touch. So who knows what happens when you

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Speaker 3: do podcast interviews. Lots of people have said to me, oh,

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Speaker 3: you try that down for the years, I guess with

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Speaker 3: various bits and.

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Speaker 2: Pieces that have happened.

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Speaker 3: And when I kind of I began having the sort

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Speaker 3: of conversations with the publishers and I sort of thought,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's maybe something here around the health stuff.

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Speaker 3: But also there's maybe something here around war, because you

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Speaker 3: get sort of war memoirs which is all about the

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Speaker 3: gunfights or the rockets landing, or the mindes that go

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Speaker 3: off and all the kind of all the violence of war,

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Speaker 3: and there is plenty of violence in war, but also

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Speaker 3: I experienced war as a very young rookie war reporter

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Speaker 3: with three weeks notice and suspected entimetriosis, which I guess

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Speaker 3: most people at the frontline didn't have.

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Speaker 2: No So it was a way I guess, of looking.

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Speaker 3: At an experience that I think we kind of we

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Speaker 3: know about that in our public consciousness, it's in the movies,

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Speaker 3: it's in the books, but looking at it from a

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Speaker 3: different standpoint, I guess, three different lens.

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Speaker 1: So you had a story in you that you want

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Speaker 1: to that in the end, you thought this should be

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Speaker 1: written down and it might be read.

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Speaker 2: I guess so.

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Speaker 3: And I've certainly I've had friends and family, and but

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Speaker 3: I kind of think family are just being nice when

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Speaker 3: they say, oh, you should write that down. But more

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Speaker 3: and more people had over the years said to me,

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Speaker 3: I think I think this maybe something here.

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Speaker 2: You maybe have a gul My family say, don't write

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Speaker 2: a box by.

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Speaker 1: Why not?

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Speaker 2: I know I've been asked lots of times in my family.

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Speaker 2: My gardner in front, oh maybe you do. I think

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Speaker 2: it sounds like you do. Cry. Okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: So the book's called Bloody Minded, which I love, but

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Speaker 1: you and you are quite bloody minded. So do you

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Speaker 1: think that determination like you've got You talk about your

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Speaker 1: parents a lot only child, do you think that gets

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Speaker 1: you know, you were around adults a lot, and you

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Speaker 1: say it in the book, so that adult company, you know,

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Speaker 1: did that give you a sort of a sense of

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Speaker 1: determination as well?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know where the determination comes from.

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Speaker 3: I mean both my parents are very focused, determined people,

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Speaker 3: high achieving, high achieving, unquestionably, but that doesn't necessarily mean

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Speaker 3: that their kids would be. Yes, I wonder if I've

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Speaker 3: always not by everybody. But I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: people underestimate women, and I think that got my backup.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very so.

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Speaker 1: Was there is there a sense that you wanted to

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Speaker 1: prove people wrong? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely.

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Speaker 3: There have definitely been times where you look back and

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Speaker 3: you think, Okay, I'm not going to come out on

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Speaker 3: top in this one.

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Speaker 2: Yet, but I can wait. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you and as you've gotten older, do you still

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Speaker 1: feel that sense of having to prove yourself?

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Speaker 3: Probably a bit less so now, But I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of things. I think a lot of things change

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Speaker 3: with menopause. Right, you see a little monal crazy roller

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Speaker 3: coaster settles down a bit, You kind of You've got

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Speaker 3: a wealth of experience that no one can take away

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Speaker 3: from you. Yeah, and people probably know who you are,

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Speaker 3: what you're stand for, what you can do, which is

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Speaker 3: not to say that you then take your foot off

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Speaker 3: the gas and relax, but.

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Speaker 2: You become more of a non quantity.

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Speaker 1: I don't have to prove myself anymore. I did it

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Speaker 1: for years and it drove me. It was a really

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Speaker 1: good driver. Yeah. I quite liked being underestimated. Yes, because

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Speaker 1: while you're under estimating me, I'm getting on with her exactly.

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Speaker 3: It's a little I think it's a bit of a

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Speaker 3: kind of secret superpower.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in a way it can be. But now I

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Speaker 2: don't give a damn.

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Speaker 1: For you, Deputy Prime Minister. I think in my head

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Speaker 1: when you're under estimates again or well, exactly, So I'm

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Speaker 1: moving to New Zealand. So you had what paternal green Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my dad's my dad was born here, yeah, and his

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Speaker 1: mother and grandfather.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so you came to visit and then moved.

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Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't quite that quick, I know, but

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Speaker 1: it's a massive I mean I've always had huge admiration

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Speaker 1: for people that sort of take that leap. I must

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Speaker 1: say as much for refugees and those people that are

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Speaker 1: just coming with nothing. My goodness, I just can't even

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Speaker 1: get feather in my head.

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Speaker 3: But even with you six months old, baby, Yeah, it

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Speaker 3: was it wasn't a great decision looking back on it. Now,

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Speaker 3: do'll move to the other side of the world with

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Speaker 3: the six month or but then when is it a

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Speaker 3: good time?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it was quite a strange experience coming here

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Speaker 3: for the first time, which was on holiday and three

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Speaker 3: years before we actually moved, and walking into places where

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Speaker 3: lots of things were familiar to me, whether it was

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Speaker 3: voices or food or the way people talked, and my

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Speaker 3: husband not way it wasn't my husband then, but my

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Speaker 3: partner not guessing that at all, and me saying to him, oh, look,

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Speaker 3: looks ginger crunch, and they were like, what's ginger crunch?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, why how can you not know what ginger crunch is?

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Speaker 3: How can you not know what a melting moment is?

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Speaker 3: Did your granny not have them in your tins in

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Speaker 3: the pantry?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's just me.

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Speaker 3: Oh And suddenly I had this thing fell into place

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Speaker 3: now like oh it's New Zealand. Yeah, that's what's been

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Speaker 3: that thing in the back of my mind, in the

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Speaker 3: back of my childhood and my growing up that I

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Speaker 3: just thought it was my granny.

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Speaker 2: But it wasn't just my granny. It was New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 1: So totally Let's talk a bit about being a war

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Speaker 1: correspondent because you were Yang. I was young, yeah, early

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Speaker 1: twenty five, Yeah, twenty five, that is Yang, Particularly when

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Speaker 1: you look back at it, you know, at the time

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Speaker 1: you sort of thought you were, you know, a superwoman

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Speaker 1: and you knew everything.

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Speaker 2: You look back me and you just go, I was

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Speaker 2: a child.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but terrifyingly gout. A lot of the fighting

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Speaker 3: men there were younger than me. Yeah, which looking back

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Speaker 3: now just feels, you know, there were eighteen year olds there.

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Speaker 2: So it wasn't you planning to be a war correspondent,

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Speaker 2: was it? Absolutely not?

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Speaker 3: No, No, I went I went to drama school, and

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Speaker 3: then I went to do a postgrad in broadcast journalism.

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Speaker 2: And the first day.

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Speaker 3: Doing the postgrad and the tutor said, right, who here

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Speaker 3: wants to be a war correspondent? And about half the

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Speaker 3: class put their hand up and I wasn't one of them.

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Speaker 3: And the woman sitting next to me wasn't one of

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Speaker 3: them either, and out of everyone in the class, I

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Speaker 3: know that we're two people who did end up producing

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Speaker 3: reporting presenting from from war zone.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be an arts correspondent, but I wanted

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Speaker 3: to see stuff about theater and music and dance and

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Speaker 3: visual arts and all these kinds of things, and not

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Speaker 3: at all it ended up being the war choose me.

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Speaker 1: But then, isn't that part of the wonderful advice that

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Speaker 1: you say of your mother, which is, and I'm probably

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Speaker 1: paraphrasing badly, but as you know, say yes and then

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Speaker 1: work it out, work it out later. Yeah, And so

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Speaker 1: when asked you just see yes and then walked away.

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Speaker 1: I hear, yeah, exactly, because you have to. So that

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Speaker 1: lots of things have taught me about my mum.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely never plan anything to stringently that you miss the

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Speaker 3: opportunity nice it falls into your lap. Because I'm not

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Speaker 3: a planner. I know lots of people are really big

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Speaker 3: on their five year plans, are ten year plans. I'm

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Speaker 3: just not one of those people. I kind of look

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Speaker 3: around and see what's happening. And her advice was always

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Speaker 3: just keep your eyes open because you don't know what's

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Speaker 3: around the corner.

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Speaker 2: And if you do rigid, you won't see you riggid.

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Speaker 3: You'll be like, no, no, on my five year plan,

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Speaker 3: that's not what I meant to be doing. And so

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Speaker 3: that was I think that was really great advice. And

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Speaker 3: then also from mum, but also from drama school and

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Speaker 3: various other bits of my life. Always say yes, like

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Speaker 3: can you roller skates?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: I mean right now today, No, but I can learn,

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Speaker 3: because that's the thing. You can always learn stuff. You

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Speaker 3: can always upscale. YouTube is there for a reason, and

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Speaker 3: it's not just to fall down a rabbit hole, you know.

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Speaker 3: It's like you can learn all sorts of amazing things

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Speaker 3: and be all sorts of different things and back yourself

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Speaker 3: because if you say yes, you can always say no

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Speaker 3: later if you really need to back out.

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Speaker 1: But war zone is quite different, to be fear, And

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Speaker 1: so what year did you go in?

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Speaker 2: Because it's two.

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Speaker 1: Thousand and three, Yeah, it was the invasion. It was

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Speaker 1: very different twenty one years ago. Not many women no,

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Speaker 1: you know, like just I mean, I know it's obviously

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Speaker 1: completely different now, but even.

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Speaker 2: The way that we thought was and what it looked like.

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Speaker 3: Was very different than what it was, and we weren't

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Speaker 3: seeing it on social media feeds the way that we

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Speaker 3: do now.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: I mean you did see it obviously on news reports,

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Speaker 3: but not like scrolling through Instagram.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you can know. Were you terrified?

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Speaker 3: No, And I don't quite know why I wasn't terrified, because,

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Speaker 3: especially having written all down, I kind of think maybe

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Speaker 3: I should have been a little bit terrified. I wasn't terrified.

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Speaker 3: I was immensely curious. I was very interested in having

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Speaker 3: the experience of it and doing it and seeing what

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Speaker 3: it was like. It was something I never, in my

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Speaker 3: wildest dreams thought I would do, and sot to be offered.

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Speaker 3: It felt like it was too good an opportunity to

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Speaker 3: pass up. But then when you end up living out

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Speaker 3: the back of a tank for three guys in the

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Speaker 3: desert who you've never met before, and you're surrounded by men,

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Speaker 3: to say it's an austere environment is an understatement. It's

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Speaker 3: it's a pretty hard landing. But also it was an

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Speaker 3: enormously you know, everything about that experience was extraordinary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, But then isn't it fascinating?

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Speaker 1: And that really you said you could cope with war,

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Speaker 1: but it was being back hoim a normal life that

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Speaker 1: you straggled most with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I could cope with bombs going off around me.

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Speaker 3: There was one time it's actually not I don't think

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Speaker 3: it's in the book, but there was one time I

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Speaker 3: went to Iraq and every night there were rockets being

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Speaker 3: fired that you could hear them landing all around where

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Speaker 3: we were sleeping. And at the time, there were these

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Speaker 3: things called Baghdad beds, which were sort of like a

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Speaker 3: bunk bed, except it wasn't a bed on the top.

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Speaker 3: It was just basically a ceiling to stop so that

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Speaker 3: there's something landed, it wouldn't land directly on you. And

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Speaker 3: most people had Baghdad beds, except I didn't have one

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Speaker 3: of them, and so I was just I was in

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Speaker 3: a like a porta cabin type thing that I was in,

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Speaker 3: but the the rockets were still kind of landing all around,

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Speaker 3: and so basically you were getting new sleep at all.

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Speaker 3: But then I would come home and get stuck in

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Speaker 3: traffic in London and be, you know, unconsolably trying just

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Speaker 3: in bits because I was going to be ten minutes.

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Speaker 3: Led to an appointment, Yeah, and that was the point

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Speaker 3: that I was like, oh, yeah, I think's the problem here,

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Speaker 3: something going on.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk more about the health because I

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Speaker 1: think that's the you know, that's really the advice part

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Speaker 1: of this podcast because we've I've got so many questions

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Speaker 1: and I know that we can help so many people,

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Speaker 1: so that's what we've got to do. But it's the humanity, right,

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Speaker 1: So not just the humanity of war, the Boxing Day tsunami,

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Speaker 1: you know, like seeing people at their most vulnerable just

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Speaker 1: must have been you know, and you do feel it, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're that person though you're supposed to be a hard

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Speaker 1: nosed journalist.

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Speaker 3: And you are, and you have to try to view

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Speaker 3: it with impartiality. But at the same time, when you're seeing,

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Speaker 3: as you say, humanity when it has been ripped apart

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Speaker 3: and where your level of helping is by bringing the

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Speaker 3: world's attention to something, it's still very difficult because that's

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Speaker 3: not necessarily how you're seen by the people on the ground.

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Speaker 3: They see you as the way out for their children,

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Speaker 3: or they see you as someone who can they can

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Speaker 3: directly appeal to to specifically help them, and you're simply

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Speaker 3: not in a position to do that. I found some

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Speaker 3: of the disaster recovery incredibly hard to watch, both the

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Speaker 3: Boxing Day tsunami and the Pakistan earthquake, which happened almost

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Speaker 3: well within the same of a year, and it was very

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Speaker 3: hard to try to make sense of that and two

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Speaker 3: make it make sense.

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Speaker 1: But then you see the best of people, right, those

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Speaker 1: that come through, those that are rescuing, make shifting and

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Speaker 1: doing everything that's that it has to happen, right, And.

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Speaker 3: That's what I will say to my kids whenever they

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Speaker 3: watch news and they see something upsetting, I will say

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Speaker 3: to them, look for the rescuers, Look for the helpers.

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Speaker 3: There are always people you can see who are doing

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Speaker 3: the helping. Yeah, because that's how recovery happens. Okay, so

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Speaker 3: you are you loving Saturday mornings? I am loving Saturday mornings.

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Speaker 2: It sounds great and you just get to make such

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Speaker 2: interesting people.

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Speaker 3: Fabulous people, absolutely extraordinary people. And it's so nice to

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Speaker 3: not get up at four o'clock in the morning and

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Speaker 3: fight with politicians every morning.

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Speaker 2: Because it is it's a battle. It's a battle. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it is a battle.

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Speaker 3: It's a battle and more ways than one though, but

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Speaker 3: it's you know, because it's a battle when you're on air,

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Speaker 3: and it's very as you know, adversarial, but it's a

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Speaker 3: battle against your own body, which is screaming at you, going,

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Speaker 3: what are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Geting up before in the morning? Again? What are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is great. It is crazy.

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Speaker 1: The book is dedicated to the Lamases.

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Speaker 2: It's an in joke with my kids. I like it.

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Speaker 2: I can't. They didn't.

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Speaker 3: I didn't want them to be named, and so I

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Speaker 3: couldn't write it to them with their names.

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Speaker 2: Ah, so it's an in joke.

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Speaker 1: I did notice that you didn't name new children, and

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Speaker 1: I thought, why are you just taking it a little

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Speaker 1: bit of privacy for them?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, they can decide what they want to

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Speaker 3: do when they're grown ups with my stuff.

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Speaker 2: But no, I agree with one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's hard, isn't it when you've you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, I had one of my children to do

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Speaker 3: well just before I started on Morning Reports. So they've

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Speaker 3: kind of always been part of this journey. But so

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Speaker 3: they're allowed to have their privateg Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree,

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent. Yeah, hundred percent. My stepdaughter was in

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Speaker 3: so different name, you know, all of it. And when

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Speaker 3: she was an intermediate school, you know, another twelve year

380
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Speaker 3: old handed her a notion it was from his mother

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Speaker 3: to give to me to tell me how awful I am,

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Speaker 3: and I just went my twelve year old doesn't have

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Speaker 3: to put up with it. It's school that's horrible. It

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Speaker 3: was horrible, really horrible.

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Speaker 2: So we just seen her.

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Speaker 1: We just gave her her privacy and yeah, send her

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Speaker 1: to a different school.

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Speaker 2: Do you handle something like that? I don't know how you.

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Speaker 1: I obviously am not still handling that one these I

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Speaker 1: don't care what people say own.

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Speaker 2: And think about me. It was just that's my girl,

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Speaker 2: you know. And she's twelve.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and that's such a vulnerable age, as

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Speaker 1: we know, because you know, and so it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some weird things that.

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Speaker 2: Go on out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but no I admire Sure, well I quite like

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Speaker 1: the Lamas. Then I'll take it. I'll take it.

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Speaker 3: I did wonder if and Woe would ask me about that,

400
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Speaker 3: but I was like, nah, I feel like this is

401
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Speaker 3: the right thing to do.

402
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Speaker 2: Got it on you.

403
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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, when we come back, we're going to chat

404
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 1: to end and living in a man's World.

405
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Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about that as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I am right back with Susie Ferguson, and we're

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Speaker 1: your book, Bloody Minded deals with a lot right. So first,

408
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Speaker 1: I mean, my goodness, your health from what about the

409
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Speaker 1: age of thirteen when your period started? And I know

410
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Speaker 1: I've read that it takes like seven years on average

411
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Speaker 1: for someone to get diagnosed with ENDO, and that's just staggering, right,

412
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Speaker 1: and this day and age, and it's still happening, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's.

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Speaker 1: Still in your mind and you're fine, and it's womanly

415
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Speaker 1: problems and yes, you're gonna bleed and that's just the

416
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Speaker 1: way life is.

417
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Speaker 2: It's all part of being a woman.

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Speaker 3: And your dad was a doctor toad, Yeah, yeah, it's

419
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Speaker 3: what to see. I mean, I think it's probably hard

420
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Speaker 3: when you're first getting a periods because you know, they're

421
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Speaker 3: a bit all over the show, and sometimes they're light,

422
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Speaker 3: sometimes they're heavy, and sometimes they're painful and sometimes they're not.

423
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Speaker 3: And you know, it takes a while for all that

424
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Speaker 3: kind of stuff to sort of settle down. And lots

425
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Speaker 3: of people have funny periods or bad periods or sore periods,

426
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Speaker 3: but not everyone has ENDO. I guess maybe I don't

427
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Speaker 3: know the problem is that the main way I think

428
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Speaker 3: still for it to be diagnosed is not through scans

429
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,719
Speaker 3: or tests, but it's about surgeon getting eyes on in

430
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Speaker 3: an operating theater when often it's a laparoscopy, So that's

431
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 3: where it's like keyhole surgery to have a look in

432
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Speaker 3: and it's a camera having a look at your insides,

433
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Speaker 3: and so that's not a first line of diagnosis for anybody.

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Speaker 1: I thought they might have seen it when you hit

435
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Speaker 1: that first surgery for the cyst.

436
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Speaker 2: Yeah, did you think that?

437
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 1: Because you know, and so you're desisted on ovary yeah,

438
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: right and variance yeah, and they have been causing a

439
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 1: lot of the pain that you'd been having. You describe

440
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 1: it as potentially twisting around, that sort of thing. So

441
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Speaker 1: when I read later on about the ENDO, I was like, oh, well, one,

442
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 1: they did look inside you. They did look inside me.

443
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 2: So I don't know.

444
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 3: And it's kind of funny looking back on that and

445
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 3: having written the book, because I look back.

446
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 2: On that now and think, was the end or not there?

447
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: Or did they not see it or were they not

448
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 3: looking for it or did they not look in the

449
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 3: right places. I don't know, because by the time I

450
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 3: was then back under the knife eight years later, it

451
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 3: was there. It was on my bowels, it was on

452
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: my bladder, it was on my ovary like it was

453
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 3: on the EXI it's on my filopian tube. But you know,

454
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: there was seemingly quite a lot of it. But this

455
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 3: is one of the other strange things about ENDO that

456
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 3: you can have lots of it that can be seen

457
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 3: and almost no pain, yeah, or lots of pain, or

458
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 3: you can have almost none and a huge amount of pain.

459
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 3: So I guess, you know, I don't know, maybe they

460
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 3: just missed it, maybe they weren't looking for it, but

461
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 3: it does seem odd that, yeah, they actually bothered opening

462
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 3: me up and didn't find anything.

463
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: So if you had, you know, if we had a

464
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: teenager or you know, a young woman in a early

465
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: twenties and she is in pain and is then what

466
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: are her options now?

467
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 3: You know?

468
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 1: So is it really not a test that you can

469
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: take wellout them going in because it's a lining as

470
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: you described it, isn't it?

471
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 3: So it's the stuff that's similar to the lining of

472
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 3: your uterus that grows outside your uterus, Okay, often in

473
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 3: the pelvic area, so like your lower abdomen. But also

474
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 3: I've been told by ENDO specialists that they've found endometriosis

475
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 3: in people's lungs, in people's brains, but they don't really

476
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 3: know how it gets there. So I think it's an

477
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 3: awful lot not known short answer in terms of advocacy

478
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 3: and what to do. There are some really good resources

479
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 3: out there and demetriosis New Zealand is a really good

480
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: one stop shop that's got a bunch of resources there.

481
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 3: Keep going to your doctor, try to get in front

482
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 3: of a gynecologist. There are things that can be done

483
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 3: to lessen the pain. Things like marina IUDs can be

484
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 3: pretty useful in that sort of route. So there are

485
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 3: definitely things that can be done before you actually get

486
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 3: seen by a surgeon. I think there are some or

487
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 3: I've heard of some new ultrasound machines and specialists that can, Okay,

488
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 3: begin they're beginning to go down that route. I don't

489
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 3: know if we can do that in New Zealand. I

490
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 3: do have a friend who's been diagnosed that way in London.

491
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: But I think you just have to.

492
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 3: Keep banging your head against the brick wall and someone

493
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 3: like you talking about it. You have to keep talking

494
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,959
Speaker 3: about it because there's so many people that this affects. Yeahs,

495
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 3: you know one and ten and we don't you'll know,

496
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: you know, you'll know people who have that.

497
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

498
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolute sisters or or you know, cousins or friends whatever.

499
00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: Not very much.

500
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, and watch that pain and thought it

501
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: was in the head. But when you're a war correspond

502
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: you're saying you're taking up to fifteen painkillers a day.

503
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, And was it just to get through? Yeah? I

504
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 2: took that every day. Yeah.

505
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 3: It was a kind of opioid that I think you

506
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 3: don't get now, which probably isn't a good Yeah. I

507
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 3: was prescribed to take that for years on end because

508
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 3: there was nothing else.

509
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 2: And do they believe you were in pain? I as

510
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 2: seem so.

511
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I guess you don't prescribe people opioids for

512
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 3: years on end without thinking that, but not enough I

513
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 3: guess to actually prioritize me being diagnosed.

514
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know in the end, it's not the

515
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 1: end end, but when And as part of it as well,

516
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: you try to have a hysterectomy, big decision, it's a

517
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: big operation, and you tried to go public about it, Yes,

518
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: I yeah, I did.

519
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 3: It was about seven years ago now, seems amazing. I

520
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 3: chose to go public about it for a bunch of reasons,

521
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 3: partly because I didn't feel had ending to be ashamed

522
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 3: about just a bit of mine, asked me that was

523
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 3: not working desperately well, and it takes six weeks to recover.

524
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: So I was going to be off Morning Report for

525
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 3: quite a long time. And so I thought, rather than

526
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 3: it just being this void, why not tell the story,

527
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: you know arn Zz's storytelling organization, why not tell our

528
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 3: own story. But also because it was the last chance

529
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 3: saloon for me. I'd had previous surgery for endo. I'd

530
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 3: gone into you know, I could feel it coming back,

531
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 3: and I'd ended up back in Wellington Hospital and had

532
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 3: an examination which I have to say was one of

533
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 3: them was painful, unexpectedly painful examinations in my life.

534
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: Nothing to do with the doctor.

535
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 3: She was fantastic, but it was just, yeah, my uterus

536
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 3: was past it. And you know, I was told at

537
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 3: that point, you know, you'll have a we'd like to

538
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 3: offer you a hysterrite to me on the public service.

539
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 3: It'll happen within four months. It actually happened within two

540
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 3: and it was a big decision in some ways, but

541
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 3: also in others it wasn't at all, you know, I

542
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 3: I it was only after I'd signed the consent form

543
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: that I said to the doctor. Oh, actually I don't

544
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 3: want any more children. But I think it was just

545
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 3: for me. It was just I had to I had

546
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 3: to make it stop. Like I couldn't do it anymore.

547
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 3: I couldn't, you know. I was Bill English, I think

548
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 3: was the I think bl English was the Prime Minister

549
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 3: at that point. And you know, it's like, I can't

550
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 3: I can't keep interviewing Bill English while I've got sweat

551
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 3: breaking out on me because I'm in so much pain.

552
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is ridiculous. You're screaming with pain and yeah.

553
00:27:53,960 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 3: And and so I actually made it was a very

554
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 3: easy decision in the end, but in some respects it's

555
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: an empowering operation and empowering decision because you're you're claiming

556
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 3: your body. Absolutely, you're claiming your future. Yeah, because I mean,

557
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 3: it wasn't going to get better on the zone. No,

558
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 3: it wasn't going to get better by itself. I had

559
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: to do something. I could have had laparoscopy. There were

560
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 3: other complications going on as well though that we didn't

561
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 3: know about until it was out, so probably it was

562
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 3: going to have to come out anyway, And being able

563
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 3: to make that decision was.

564
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 2: Possibly for the first time in.

565
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: This whole soaka of having endo, which I've probably had

566
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 3: ever since I was a teenager. It was really the

567
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 3: first time that I was able to, hopefully in a

568
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: permanent way, put an end to it. And I mean

569
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 3: a hysterectomy is not necessarily a cure. It is for

570
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 3: some people. It I think it was for me, probably thankfully,

571
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 3: and it was life changing, life changing. Yeah.

572
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: Can I also like just so much respect.

573
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: For you talking about, you know, having your first child

574
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: and what we're expected it to be and everything else

575
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: in the reality of it being kind of frunny and

576
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: you had health problems then as well.

577
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 2: But it's not all.

578
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: It's not all bows and sunshines and you know, yeah,

579
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: I mean I was young. But whether that's relevant or not,

580
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: but I hated breastfeeding.

581
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: I was that's terrible. I hated it. I just got.

582
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 3: I well, I felt like I couldn't do it. And

583
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 3: I don't know whether I don't know how much was

584
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 3: that I couldn't do it and that I was in

585
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: so much pain doing it, and how much was that

586
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 3: my milk wasn't coming in because as you say, you know,

587
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 3: there were various health complications. But the thing that the

588
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 3: thing that I really hated more than anything else, was

589
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 3: that there was no kind of There was no line

590
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 3: of help, There was no WHO.

591
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: Safety net to catch you.

592
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 3: This is in the UK that there was no There

593
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 3: were breastfeeding counselors, but if you couldn't get an appointment

594
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: with one, then too bad. And there was no assumption

595
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 3: that you were trying to do your best. The automatic

596
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 3: assumption was you were neglecting your child. And so I

597
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 3: was basically accused of neglecting my child twice before he

598
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 3: was ten days old.

599
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: And you talk about it, which nearly destroyed You talk

600
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: about and it really resonated with me. Was I just

601
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: kept expecting this knock on the door and then taking

602
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: my baby?

603
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I gene you up for years.

604
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 3: Really, I assumed that my child was going to be

605
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 3: taken away from you, which is why I didn't say

606
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 3: anything about the fact that I then kind of broke

607
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 3: and nearly fell apart, because if I told them that,

608
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 3: then they really would take my kid away.

609
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

610
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: When when my daughter was three months old she had

611
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: to go to hospital respiratory, I thank account she's really

612
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: see one for growing up now. Sorry, I think it

613
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: was you, but I just I was a mess, like

614
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: beside myself a mess.

615
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: No, I knew she was going to be okay.

616
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: I just thought it was neglect and that this is

617
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: when they're gonna pull me up and take the baby. Yeah,

618
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: it's frightening. So yeah, I just thought it was a nice,

619
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: real account. And I don't think we'd give that enough.

620
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: We've got a soldier on and we've got a cope,

621
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: and we are the mums, and you know, and next

622
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: where it's ends just like, well sometimes we're not.

623
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: And we talk about how it takes a village to

624
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 3: raise a child, but where's the village?

625
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you.

626
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 3: Pay to have the village come to you, then society

627
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 3: will judge you in another way.

628
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: You know.

629
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: It's like the the I don't even think it's a

630
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 3: double bind. It's like a triple bind. And the assumption that,

631
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 3: you know, when I was doing everything I could think

632
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 3: of and it still wasn't good enough, and the assumption

633
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: that you're neglecting your child was I mean, I felt

634
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 3: under siege in a way that I don't think I

635
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 3: ever have before or since.

636
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: And then there's that guilt as well.

637
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you talk about having miscarriages and then you're

638
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: blessed with this pregnancy and this baby, and it's just like, well,

639
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: shouldn't I be you know, the heaviest. And women talk

640
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: about that with abortion as well, you know, like it's

641
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: years later they then go on having childbyuth and it's

642
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: just like, well, there's women out there that want more

643
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: than anything in life, and I've made these other decisions

644
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: and so we just keept a bit wrapped with it

645
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: all in our own heads if we let.

646
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: Us Yeah, yeah, And I think that's really it's really valid,

647
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 3: because you do you do think that you should be

648
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 3: grateful and you should be loving every minute. Yeah, and

649
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: when you're hating every minute, it's a it's a very

650
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 3: hard sort of circled square.

651
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: Look, you start the book talking about going to the

652
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: toilet in a war zone, and I just want to

653
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: touch you know, briefly before we get to the end.

654
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: But you know, on that being in such a male

655
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: dominated environment as a woman, and you would have been

656
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: treated differently as a woman, and sometimes bitter, I imagine

657
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: as well. You know, it's not necessarily I'm not saying

658
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: everyone was, you know, because sometimes you talk about some

659
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: of the respect that you were showing, and it sounds

660
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: to me like good men. Yeah, you know, genuinely good

661
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: men that were looking out for you.

662
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

663
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 1: But was it and I don't know if it's intimidating

664
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: the right word, but it just must have been.

665
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: There was a lot of testosterone around.

666
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 3: You. Oh, there's a lot of testosterone around And there

667
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: are people who, uh, you know, you say to them, so,

668
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 3: you know, what do you reckon to being an Iraq?

669
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: You know?

670
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: And these are even from my twenty five year old

671
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 3: eyes at the time, children, yeah, who are just like, oh, yeah,

672
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 3: I can't waits fire are my gun?

673
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: Which you're like, oh, that's quite confronting.

674
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And there were some incredibly good men and the

675
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 3: vast majority see if them were incredibly good men. But

676
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 3: also they were men who were amped up to fight

677
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 3: a war, because that's that's how you get people to

678
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 3: fight a war is by a mop. And so inevitably

679
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 3: it was a pretty matchal as you say, testosterone and

680
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 3: fueled environment that you're living in and bleeding in. It's

681
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 3: a circumstance which you're trying not to be a burden,

682
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: because you kind of are a burden when you're you know,

683
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 3: they don't need to be watching their back as well.

684
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 3: But suddenly they've put someone else to look after, which

685
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: is not what they need. Someone else to feed, someone

686
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 3: else to find somewhere to you know, have bed down

687
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 3: for the night.

688
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: Whatever.

689
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 3: So you are a pain, but you don't want to

690
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 3: be too much of a pain. But at the same time,

691
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 3: it is it is a complex set of relationships that

692
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,720
Speaker 3: you end up having in that circumstance, and very intense.

693
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: Do you think it will have changed now?

694
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: With more women, there'd be more women journalists, the reporters,

695
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: there'd be more, there'd be a woman fighting.

696
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: There are women fighting now, I believe in the infantry,

697
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 3: which yeah, there absolutely weren't at the time that I

698
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 3: was there in Iraq, and actually right across my time

699
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 3: as a war reporter. I'm sure it will have changed

700
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 3: the bits. But then, you know, I went through a

701
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 3: medical before I was sent and I was told to

702
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: take the pill back to back because would stop me bleeding,

703
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 3: and so so I guess that's that's the fix, right,

704
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 3: But then if the fix doesn't work and you only

705
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 3: find that out when you're in the desert on the

706
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,959
Speaker 3: makeshift toilet, it's kind of too late by then.

707
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just have to get on with that. Yeah,

708
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: there's no sanitary items that any know. You've got rid

709
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: of nome.

710
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've thrown them away because you didn't have room

711
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 3: to carry them, so you prioritize taking your painkillers instead.

712
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 2: So you just have to I do and get on.

713
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: Would you So, would you advise a woman to go absolutely? Yeah? Absolutely?

714
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 3: What an experience? What an experience? But also why would

715
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 3: you want to Why would you want to curtail yourself?

716
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 3: Why would you not want to give yourself every opportunity

717
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 3: live the biggest life you can?

718
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Okay to finish this segment.

719
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: Then, because you've got some pillars in the book, I

720
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: must say I'm quite love with them. But I would

721
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: like to know what was the best advice you've been given?

722
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: And it doesn't sem to be the best, but you've

723
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: had some good advice. Well you had a good Ma'm right, Yeah,

724
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: I've got a good mom. I've got a good mom.

725
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, always say yes, Always back yourself, look for the opportunity,

726
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 3: and that might just pass you by if you're not

727
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 3: careful enough to catch all of it as it goes.

728
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 3: One that's actually not in the book, but I think

729
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 3: it's a great piece of advice. You know, we're always

730
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 3: juggling all the time, juggling all the balls in the

731
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 3: airwork and family and career and life and your dog

732
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 3: and all the things. And sometimes it feels like there

733
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 3: are too many balls. Decide what the balls are made of,

734
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: because some of them are made of gold ass and

735
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 3: you've got to catch those ones. But some of them

736
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 3: are made of rubber, and they'll bounce and somebody else

737
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 3: will catch them.

738
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm gonna like that one. So and they can change.

739
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 3: Sometimes you got to catch work and it's someone made

740
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 3: of glass, but other times it's going to be family

741
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 3: mm hmm. But you can decide what your balls are

742
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 3: made of m m, and how seriously you have to

743
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 3: make sure you get hands on them or not.

744
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 2: And it changes so great, and it changes. I like it.

745
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: I like it a lot.

746
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: Okay, So it's called ask me anything, and I'm asking

747
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: you everything, so you now get to ask me something.

748
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 3: I have so many questions. But I love stories, and

749
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: I know you love fishing. So what's the story of

750
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 3: the one that got away? What's your rest fishing story?

751
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: I must have lots of them, but I love fishing.

752
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I love fishing. I loved

753
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 1: I used to fly fish and so that was always serene.

754
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: It was generally at dusk and you're you know, you're

755
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: in cold water and you know, and it was beautiful

756
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: and just absolutely beautiful. And then I got into sea fishing,

757
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: and so I it's for me.

758
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: It's escapism.

759
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: I mean I always say I'm my happiest on in

760
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: or under the water. So that is definitely my happy space,

761
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: you know. I mean I can fall asleep in it.

762
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: I can fall asleep in the water like quite easily,

763
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: because I just love you know, that block your ears

764
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: and you just go into your own head. And so

765
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: then fishing one of those floor tanks, yeah, oh my god,

766
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: I love them. And then and so then just a

767
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: fishing aspect brings in a bit of competition.

768
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: You just don't know what's going to happen.

769
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 1: It's fun, it's for I've taken a lot of a

770
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: lot of fostage kids and misplaced youth, I call them,

771
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, and it's a fantastic activity to do with

772
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: them because you've got something to talk about. You're actually

773
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: quite physically close, yes, right, because you're in a boat

774
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: and it's not it's not a huge boat and most

775
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: of them have never been fishing before in their lives.

776
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: You know. Somebody of them have never even been to

777
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: a beach right and they live in Auckland. It's just incredible.

778
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: And so you get them on a boat and so

779
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 1: you've got a physical a safe physical closeness, which is

780
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: I'm a grandmother, so I always think I'm allowed to

781
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: have safe physical closeness because some of these kids have

782
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: not been touched in a in a safe and loving way,

783
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: and so and then you're teaching them to facially, you're

784
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: literally touching their hands, You're you know, it's just it's

785
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: really amazing because then they get a bite.

786
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 2: And it's just like what the heck is the start?

787
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 3: Like when you when you've when you've cast or whatever,

788
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 3: and you I don't know.

789
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 1: What's on the end, and then you've got to try

790
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: and hook it up and then you've got to and

791
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 1: then it is it's a battle. So yeah, I've want

792
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: to Woman's Malon fishing competition.

793
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 2: Before I beg was the marlin.

794
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: But I'm not that big about one hundred and ten

795
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: kgs I think, which isn't that big for a marlin

796
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: to be really honest, a little one. Yeah, anyway, happy place.

797
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: I don't have to fish. I could just sit and

798
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: have a glass of wine, which I do. Sometimes the

799
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: husband does all the work, you know, He's the one

800
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: that has to get the boat in and drive the car.

801
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 1: So sometimes I'm just go I've had enough. Yeah, put

802
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: my scarf on. Thank you so much for your honesty,

803
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: thank you for coming in, thank you for I think

804
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: just being so war in the book and telling real stories.

805
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:47,919
Speaker 2: That people need to here.

806
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: And I think you're going to help a lot of people.

807
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: So Susie's book, Bloody Minded is in stores now. It's

808
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: a rollicking read. And that's it for another episode. I've

809
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: Asked Me Anything. If you've enjoyed this episode, please follow

810
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: Ask Me Anything on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.

811
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 1: Make sure you check out some of my past fabulous guests,

812
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: and I'll be back next Sunday.

813
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 2: I'm Paula Bennet. Ask Me Anything. Goodbye,