1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,413 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast 2 00:00:10,613 --> 00:00:13,093 Speaker 1: from News Talks That'd be and. 3 00:00:13,133 --> 00:00:16,413 Speaker 2: A fascinating call from Age Concern New Zealand last month 4 00:00:16,493 --> 00:00:20,333 Speaker 2: have called for them a new Ministry of Loneliness to 5 00:00:20,373 --> 00:00:22,213 Speaker 2: be established. And you might think this is a funny 6 00:00:22,213 --> 00:00:24,053 Speaker 2: time of year to be talking about loneliness, but of 7 00:00:24,093 --> 00:00:28,333 Speaker 2: course the Christmas season comes with all sorts of mixed 8 00:00:28,413 --> 00:00:31,573 Speaker 2: up emotions for lots of New Zealanders. Doogle Sutherland is 9 00:00:31,573 --> 00:00:34,213 Speaker 2: a kindicalsse psychologist with Umbrella well Being and he's with 10 00:00:34,293 --> 00:00:37,253 Speaker 2: us this morning. Kilder Dougal Cider Jack. 11 00:00:37,333 --> 00:00:38,493 Speaker 3: Nice to talk to you a little. 12 00:00:38,413 --> 00:00:40,893 Speaker 2: Yeah, nice to be speaking with you. So just talk 13 00:00:40,973 --> 00:00:44,893 Speaker 2: us through why Age Concern thinks that loneliness is such 14 00:00:44,933 --> 00:00:47,093 Speaker 2: a big issue in New Zealand and maybe why it's 15 00:00:47,093 --> 00:00:49,933 Speaker 2: a bit of an underrated problem. 16 00:00:50,293 --> 00:00:53,333 Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I think it's underrated because it's so hidden, 17 00:00:53,373 --> 00:00:56,213 Speaker 3: isn't it that if you're lonely by definition, you're not 18 00:00:56,253 --> 00:00:59,133 Speaker 3: really having contact with other people, so other people don't 19 00:00:59,133 --> 00:01:02,453 Speaker 3: know about it. And the Age Concern survey found that 20 00:01:02,693 --> 00:01:07,013 Speaker 3: amongst older people that they surveyed, almost sixty percent said 21 00:01:07,013 --> 00:01:10,573 Speaker 3: that they had felt lonely or isolated recently, and even 22 00:01:10,653 --> 00:01:13,173 Speaker 3: more sadly, a third of the people that they serve 23 00:01:13,253 --> 00:01:15,933 Speaker 3: they'd said that they felt like that most of the time. 24 00:01:17,133 --> 00:01:21,613 Speaker 3: And loneliness is estimated to have as much impact on 25 00:01:21,653 --> 00:01:25,773 Speaker 3: our physical health and our life as things like smoking 26 00:01:25,853 --> 00:01:29,293 Speaker 3: and obesity. So it's a real it's a real health problem. 27 00:01:29,293 --> 00:01:31,653 Speaker 3: It's not just something that oh, well, people get a 28 00:01:31,653 --> 00:01:34,373 Speaker 3: bit lonely sometimes, don't they. That actually has a massive 29 00:01:34,413 --> 00:01:36,533 Speaker 3: impact on people's lives. 30 00:01:36,213 --> 00:01:39,573 Speaker 2: That's extraordinary, right, Like a similar impact on our health 31 00:01:39,613 --> 00:01:43,053 Speaker 2: is smoking in obesity. I mean that that really is. 32 00:01:43,093 --> 00:01:46,693 Speaker 2: It just goes to show we are pack animals. So 33 00:01:48,213 --> 00:01:53,813 Speaker 2: what do you think has contributed to those really high numbers, 34 00:01:53,813 --> 00:01:56,053 Speaker 2: those really high levels of loneliness. Is it the sort 35 00:01:56,053 --> 00:01:57,653 Speaker 2: of thing we can just put it on the pandemic 36 00:01:57,733 --> 00:01:59,093 Speaker 2: or has it been brewing for some time? 37 00:01:59,973 --> 00:02:00,133 Speaker 1: Ah? 38 00:02:00,213 --> 00:02:03,053 Speaker 3: Well, look, I think you know, there's a whole multitude 39 00:02:03,093 --> 00:02:06,133 Speaker 3: of things. Certainly that there's the impact of the pandemic 40 00:02:06,773 --> 00:02:11,293 Speaker 3: and losing contact with people during that time and maybe, 41 00:02:11,933 --> 00:02:16,093 Speaker 3: you know, maybe having difficulty re establishing those links. We've 42 00:02:16,093 --> 00:02:19,933 Speaker 3: got an aging population, of course, so as people get older, 43 00:02:21,013 --> 00:02:23,293 Speaker 3: you know that they do tend to become a bit 44 00:02:23,333 --> 00:02:27,253 Speaker 3: more that you know, naturally people lose their partners or 45 00:02:27,333 --> 00:02:31,253 Speaker 3: friends through passing away. There's other things though, too, like 46 00:02:31,293 --> 00:02:33,053 Speaker 3: you know, the cost of living and the cost of 47 00:02:33,093 --> 00:02:35,213 Speaker 3: health care at the moment makes it can make it 48 00:02:35,253 --> 00:02:38,653 Speaker 3: difficult for people to actually get out of the house 49 00:02:38,693 --> 00:02:40,933 Speaker 3: if they might not be able to afford to travel 50 00:02:41,053 --> 00:02:44,013 Speaker 3: or to go out, or their health problems might limit 51 00:02:44,093 --> 00:02:46,893 Speaker 3: their ability to actually get out and about in the community. 52 00:02:47,053 --> 00:02:51,893 Speaker 3: So there's there's a whole host of factors. And you know, 53 00:02:52,013 --> 00:02:55,773 Speaker 3: we've got this aging population and predicted this is only 54 00:02:55,813 --> 00:02:58,173 Speaker 3: going to get worse really unless we do something about it. 55 00:02:58,173 --> 00:03:01,093 Speaker 2: It's interesting too, right, Some people might think it seems 56 00:03:01,253 --> 00:03:04,333 Speaker 2: like a bit extreme to have a Minister for loneliness 57 00:03:04,373 --> 00:03:07,053 Speaker 2: or a Ministry of loneliness, But in the UK and 58 00:03:07,133 --> 00:03:10,773 Speaker 2: Japan they've got minister's Loneliness. In Australia they're making some 59 00:03:10,773 --> 00:03:11,293 Speaker 2: steps too. 60 00:03:12,373 --> 00:03:15,773 Speaker 3: Yeah, they had Australia's i think announced a Commission of 61 00:03:15,813 --> 00:03:19,093 Speaker 3: inquiry or parliamentary commission I think into looking at it. 62 00:03:18,453 --> 00:03:21,613 Speaker 3: And the UK had a Minister of Loneliness I think 63 00:03:21,613 --> 00:03:23,773 Speaker 3: they've had one for about five years or so, and 64 00:03:24,213 --> 00:03:27,173 Speaker 3: the same in Japan. And it's like having a minister 65 00:03:27,253 --> 00:03:30,573 Speaker 3: in itself doesn't necessarily change anything, but I think what 66 00:03:30,653 --> 00:03:33,653 Speaker 3: it does do is it sort of highlights the area 67 00:03:34,133 --> 00:03:39,333 Speaker 3: and focuses government, you know, government attention and finances into 68 00:03:39,373 --> 00:03:41,493 Speaker 3: those areas if you've got a bit like we've seen 69 00:03:41,533 --> 00:03:44,373 Speaker 3: with you know, the Minister of Mental Health here in 70 00:03:44,373 --> 00:03:47,293 Speaker 3: New Zealand. So I think it's certainly it's one of 71 00:03:47,333 --> 00:03:50,613 Speaker 3: those things that can really spotlight the issue and bring 72 00:03:50,653 --> 00:03:53,293 Speaker 3: it into the public awareness, which I think is really important, 73 00:03:53,453 --> 00:03:56,053 Speaker 3: especially at the moment, right especially around Christmas, and it's 74 00:03:56,093 --> 00:04:00,253 Speaker 3: around you know, catching up with family and that's all great, 75 00:04:00,373 --> 00:04:02,773 Speaker 3: but of course some people that might not be the 76 00:04:02,773 --> 00:04:06,133 Speaker 3: case for everybody. And I was thinking that what a 77 00:04:06,133 --> 00:04:09,293 Speaker 3: great Christmas gift that could be this year? Have actually 78 00:04:09,373 --> 00:04:11,413 Speaker 3: you stopped and took you know, we all stopped and 79 00:04:11,453 --> 00:04:14,933 Speaker 3: looked around in our community and who's nearby us? And 80 00:04:15,173 --> 00:04:18,653 Speaker 3: are they actually you know, is there some loneliness nearby 81 00:04:18,693 --> 00:04:22,653 Speaker 3: that we can help with and and and make that 82 00:04:22,773 --> 00:04:25,053 Speaker 3: maybe not just a one off Christmas present, but perhaps 83 00:04:25,293 --> 00:04:27,213 Speaker 3: a bit of a longer term commitment to And it 84 00:04:27,253 --> 00:04:30,093 Speaker 3: doesn't have to be much. We've got a we've got 85 00:04:30,093 --> 00:04:32,013 Speaker 3: an elderly neighbor that lives next door to us, and 86 00:04:32,653 --> 00:04:35,893 Speaker 3: her family lives nearby and they see her regularly, but 87 00:04:36,413 --> 00:04:40,413 Speaker 3: you know, it's just the occasional popping in and having 88 00:04:40,413 --> 00:04:43,133 Speaker 3: a conversation over the fence, or or bringing in her 89 00:04:43,173 --> 00:04:47,333 Speaker 3: paper or you know, anything like that, and I know that, 90 00:04:47,373 --> 00:04:49,613 Speaker 3: you know, I've spoken to her, and she's just she 91 00:04:49,733 --> 00:04:52,013 Speaker 3: really finds that just a really nice thing to and 92 00:04:52,133 --> 00:04:54,413 Speaker 3: feels part of the community and feels that like some 93 00:04:54,773 --> 00:04:58,453 Speaker 3: there's somebody near to her that that that is aware 94 00:04:58,493 --> 00:05:00,853 Speaker 3: of her and cares about her. That's a great thing 95 00:05:00,853 --> 00:05:01,133 Speaker 3: to do. 96 00:05:01,413 --> 00:05:03,813 Speaker 2: Connected today. It's just such a such a vital kind 97 00:05:03,813 --> 00:05:08,293 Speaker 2: of human experience. It's funny too, right, because social media 98 00:05:08,693 --> 00:05:12,333 Speaker 2: is almost more of a problem with this than an aid, 99 00:05:13,013 --> 00:05:16,333 Speaker 2: in that people who are on social media actually feel 100 00:05:16,653 --> 00:05:18,293 Speaker 2: lonelier often than people who aren't. 101 00:05:19,213 --> 00:05:22,493 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a weird. It's sort of counterintuitive in a way, 102 00:05:22,573 --> 00:05:25,693 Speaker 3: and it's possibly related to that the age of the generation, 103 00:05:26,253 --> 00:05:29,733 Speaker 3: you know, where they are seeing what's going on in 104 00:05:29,773 --> 00:05:33,253 Speaker 3: everybody else's life and perhaps that enhances the sense of 105 00:05:33,333 --> 00:05:36,893 Speaker 3: this isn't happening in my own life, which is sad. 106 00:05:37,453 --> 00:05:39,733 Speaker 3: And yeah, I think I think it was something like 107 00:05:39,773 --> 00:05:43,253 Speaker 3: about seventy five percent of those people who of older 108 00:05:43,253 --> 00:05:46,653 Speaker 3: people who were surveyed and said that they did they 109 00:05:46,733 --> 00:05:49,933 Speaker 3: had good social media access and they connected with people online, 110 00:05:49,973 --> 00:05:53,253 Speaker 3: but actually they still reported see them lonely. So I 111 00:05:53,293 --> 00:05:56,493 Speaker 3: think you know that nothing can beat the face to 112 00:05:56,573 --> 00:05:59,453 Speaker 3: face really, So social media is great for keeping in touch, 113 00:05:59,573 --> 00:06:03,173 Speaker 3: but it can also perhaps highlight the differences and maybe 114 00:06:03,173 --> 00:06:05,213 Speaker 3: some of the areas that aren't going so well for you. 115 00:06:05,373 --> 00:06:08,893 Speaker 3: So nothing really to face to face or at least 116 00:06:08,933 --> 00:06:12,613 Speaker 3: even a phone call, you know, texting somebody is all good, 117 00:06:12,733 --> 00:06:15,493 Speaker 3: but actually having that phone call, having the face to 118 00:06:15,533 --> 00:06:17,293 Speaker 3: face if you can, is even better. 119 00:06:17,613 --> 00:06:19,493 Speaker 2: And trying to make it a long term kind of 120 00:06:19,533 --> 00:06:21,693 Speaker 2: connection rather than just a one off quick hey, how 121 00:06:21,693 --> 00:06:22,493 Speaker 2: are you doing kind of thing? 122 00:06:22,573 --> 00:06:27,293 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's right. I think it's just yea. And 123 00:06:26,973 --> 00:06:30,653 Speaker 3: those long term relationships and connections are of course just 124 00:06:30,693 --> 00:06:33,493 Speaker 3: built up with small moments, you know, day after day, 125 00:06:33,573 --> 00:06:35,733 Speaker 3: week after week, and you're just saying gooday, and then 126 00:06:35,733 --> 00:06:37,413 Speaker 3: you stop for a bit longer and you have a 127 00:06:37,413 --> 00:06:40,013 Speaker 3: bit of a chat and then that you know, and 128 00:06:40,053 --> 00:06:42,133 Speaker 3: that sort of develops over time, so you don't have 129 00:06:42,173 --> 00:06:44,413 Speaker 3: to sort of rush in and spend the whole of 130 00:06:44,493 --> 00:06:46,973 Speaker 3: Christmas Day in boxing Day and New Year's Day with 131 00:06:47,013 --> 00:06:49,573 Speaker 3: them and you know, dominate their lives twenty four to seven. 132 00:06:49,973 --> 00:06:54,333 Speaker 3: Just build up those relationships slowly but surely, and and 133 00:06:54,453 --> 00:06:57,213 Speaker 3: you know, sow those seeds and eventually they'll spring a 134 00:06:57,213 --> 00:06:58,373 Speaker 3: bit of fruit hopefully. 135 00:06:58,493 --> 00:07:02,413 Speaker 2: So obviously we're speaking at speaking about this from the 136 00:07:02,413 --> 00:07:07,493 Speaker 2: perspective of people who are you know, of younger generations 137 00:07:07,853 --> 00:07:09,733 Speaker 2: who are often really busy in that kind of thing. 138 00:07:09,893 --> 00:07:11,853 Speaker 2: This is a bit of a tricky question, but do 139 00:07:12,213 --> 00:07:17,253 Speaker 2: you think older people bear some responsibility and trying to 140 00:07:17,293 --> 00:07:20,933 Speaker 2: be really proactive about making connections, about joining clubs or 141 00:07:20,973 --> 00:07:22,973 Speaker 2: trying to be social like that. Is that something you 142 00:07:22,973 --> 00:07:27,253 Speaker 2: can try and foster and peoples like there's a place 143 00:07:27,253 --> 00:07:29,933 Speaker 2: for both obviously, Yeah. 144 00:07:30,093 --> 00:07:33,013 Speaker 3: I think so. I think it's important to address the 145 00:07:33,053 --> 00:07:37,373 Speaker 3: barriers that might prevent older people from getting out into 146 00:07:37,373 --> 00:07:41,053 Speaker 3: the community, Like if mobility or health is a concern, 147 00:07:41,253 --> 00:07:46,413 Speaker 3: or transport, then that's really difficult. But if communities can 148 00:07:46,453 --> 00:07:49,693 Speaker 3: come together and you know, address some of those concerns, 149 00:07:49,693 --> 00:07:52,973 Speaker 3: you know, have a pick up van or provide taxi 150 00:07:53,013 --> 00:07:56,173 Speaker 3: chips or whatever so that people can get out and about. 151 00:07:56,253 --> 00:07:59,773 Speaker 3: So I think it's been you know, removing those barriers 152 00:07:59,773 --> 00:08:02,573 Speaker 3: that will prevent people from getting out and about and 153 00:08:02,893 --> 00:08:05,253 Speaker 3: allowing people to take up the opportunities. And I think 154 00:08:05,573 --> 00:08:07,413 Speaker 3: you know, there's a lot often lots of sort of 155 00:08:07,453 --> 00:08:10,653 Speaker 3: small community events that go on in your neighborhood that 156 00:08:11,093 --> 00:08:13,693 Speaker 3: people would go to if they only could or if 157 00:08:13,733 --> 00:08:17,133 Speaker 3: they knew about. Yeah, so it's a bit of both, 158 00:08:17,173 --> 00:08:19,093 Speaker 3: of course, but there are lots of often lots of 159 00:08:19,133 --> 00:08:21,893 Speaker 3: societal barriers towards people getting out and about even when 160 00:08:21,893 --> 00:08:22,333 Speaker 3: they want to. 161 00:08:22,413 --> 00:08:25,013 Speaker 2: Yeah, the mobility one's a big one. A Yeah, that's 162 00:08:25,053 --> 00:08:28,413 Speaker 2: a really that's a critical one. Yeah, that is such 163 00:08:28,453 --> 00:08:31,213 Speaker 2: good advice. Thank you so much. Google. Have a fantastic 164 00:08:31,293 --> 00:08:31,973 Speaker 2: Christmas one. 165 00:08:31,933 --> 00:08:35,253 Speaker 3: You thanks Jack, Yes you too, thanks for your thanks 166 00:08:35,293 --> 00:08:39,213 Speaker 3: for your Christmas card. Always a highlights and yeah, we'll 167 00:08:39,213 --> 00:08:39,973 Speaker 3: speak to you next year. 168 00:08:40,053 --> 00:08:41,373 Speaker 2: Yeah, I look forward to it. I have a great 169 00:08:41,413 --> 00:08:43,973 Speaker 2: break and we will catch you again very soon. Google 170 00:08:43,973 --> 00:08:47,853 Speaker 2: Southerland the clinical psychologist with Umbrella Well Being. It's seventeen 171 00:08:47,893 --> 00:08:50,373 Speaker 2: past to leaving you with Jack Tame. This is News Talks. 172 00:08:50,453 --> 00:08:53,693 Speaker 1: 'd be for more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. 173 00:08:53,893 --> 00:08:57,093 Speaker 1: Listen live to News Talks that'd be from nine am Saturday, 174 00:08:57,333 --> 00:08:59,373 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.