1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,787 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB. 3 00:00:12,747 --> 00:00:17,507 Speaker 2: Longstanding first class refereeing record is to be broken this afternoon. 4 00:00:17,547 --> 00:00:21,067 Speaker 2: Ben O'Keeffe is in charge of the NPC rugby match 5 00:00:21,107 --> 00:00:24,627 Speaker 2: between Counties Monaco and White Cuttle in Pokakoe, kicking off 6 00:00:24,627 --> 00:00:28,267 Speaker 2: around four thirty. It'll be Ben o'keef's two hundred and 7 00:00:28,427 --> 00:00:33,267 Speaker 2: twenty second top level fifteen's game, passing Patti O'Brien's two 8 00:00:33,347 --> 00:00:36,547 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty one. That record has stood since two 9 00:00:36,627 --> 00:00:39,027 Speaker 2: thousand and five. Ben o keeff joins us on the 10 00:00:39,027 --> 00:00:41,147 Speaker 2: way of the game. I think congrats on the milestone. 11 00:00:41,267 --> 00:00:41,467 Speaker 3: Ben. 12 00:00:41,547 --> 00:00:45,107 Speaker 2: Can you remember game number one two twenty two this afternoon? 13 00:00:45,107 --> 00:00:46,347 Speaker 2: Can you remember game number one? 14 00:00:47,147 --> 00:00:50,107 Speaker 3: Yeah? Thanks Piney. Game number one was a long time 15 00:00:50,187 --> 00:00:53,867 Speaker 3: go now, but I do remember. It was on the 16 00:00:53,907 --> 00:00:57,067 Speaker 3: West Coast. I was doing a Heartland game and I 17 00:00:57,067 --> 00:00:59,787 Speaker 3: was pretty young back Dennis, learning my trade and craft. 18 00:00:59,827 --> 00:01:02,987 Speaker 3: But it almost didn't go ahead because of the winner, 19 00:01:03,027 --> 00:01:05,147 Speaker 3: and I think it was a bit of hail, but 20 00:01:05,227 --> 00:01:07,627 Speaker 3: it was nothing. I think sophomly getting on that field 21 00:01:07,867 --> 00:01:10,667 Speaker 3: to do that match, and it's in plenty more since then, 22 00:01:10,787 --> 00:01:13,347 Speaker 3: so it's been awesome. It's been I'm really grateful. 23 00:01:13,587 --> 00:01:16,427 Speaker 2: So two hundred and twenty two and counting this afternoon. 24 00:01:16,467 --> 00:01:18,587 Speaker 2: How much does this milestone mean to you? That the 25 00:01:19,187 --> 00:01:23,787 Speaker 2: fact that you'll be, you know, the highest highest controlling 26 00:01:24,347 --> 00:01:26,787 Speaker 2: referee in New Zealand history. 27 00:01:28,507 --> 00:01:30,827 Speaker 3: I think mainly, like you know, when I realized that 28 00:01:30,947 --> 00:01:33,227 Speaker 3: I was going to reach out milestone this week, it 29 00:01:33,307 --> 00:01:35,387 Speaker 3: just makes me reflect on, you know, the referees that 30 00:01:35,427 --> 00:01:38,787 Speaker 3: have gone before. Obviously Power O'Brien massive, and you know, 31 00:01:38,827 --> 00:01:41,067 Speaker 3: it was a big part of me when I started 32 00:01:41,107 --> 00:01:43,987 Speaker 3: young himself Colin Hawk, and I've had a lot of 33 00:01:44,227 --> 00:01:46,947 Speaker 3: not just referees who have up coached me or I've 34 00:01:46,987 --> 00:01:49,627 Speaker 3: been you know, working with you know, people that have 35 00:01:49,667 --> 00:01:51,507 Speaker 3: just really assisted me throughout the game the whole time. 36 00:01:51,587 --> 00:01:53,427 Speaker 3: So it sort of made me just reflect I long 37 00:01:53,427 --> 00:01:55,227 Speaker 3: to help that I've got along the way because it's 38 00:01:55,267 --> 00:01:56,787 Speaker 3: been a big part of my life in part of 39 00:01:56,867 --> 00:01:59,707 Speaker 3: games and I absolutely love it. And how to get 40 00:01:59,707 --> 00:02:03,387 Speaker 3: to two hundred and twenty two, I sort of feel 41 00:02:03,427 --> 00:02:05,267 Speaker 3: like there's a bit of responsibility to keep going and 42 00:02:05,787 --> 00:02:07,307 Speaker 3: you know, do either better job for the next one 43 00:02:07,347 --> 00:02:08,107 Speaker 3: hundred and twenty two. 44 00:02:08,947 --> 00:02:13,347 Speaker 2: I can brilliant, great stuff. What is behind your longevity 45 00:02:13,827 --> 00:02:17,187 Speaker 2: at the very top level do you think, Look, I've 46 00:02:17,227 --> 00:02:17,667 Speaker 2: had a lot. 47 00:02:17,587 --> 00:02:20,387 Speaker 3: Of good support while I've been refereeing, but I do 48 00:02:20,427 --> 00:02:21,787 Speaker 3: think that I'm a bit of a like I'm a 49 00:02:21,787 --> 00:02:24,787 Speaker 3: student of the game. I love rugby and I'm always 50 00:02:24,827 --> 00:02:27,707 Speaker 3: trying to work on the things that I can get 51 00:02:27,747 --> 00:02:31,187 Speaker 3: bit after every single game i'm reviewing them. You know, 52 00:02:31,187 --> 00:02:33,667 Speaker 3: I'm really diligent about how I watch my games afterwards 53 00:02:33,667 --> 00:02:35,347 Speaker 3: and then what to do for a week two get better. 54 00:02:35,467 --> 00:02:38,307 Speaker 3: So I feel like I've been able to just grow 55 00:02:38,467 --> 00:02:40,547 Speaker 3: after each game to do that, and that's what I 56 00:02:40,547 --> 00:02:43,747 Speaker 3: always tell other referees and when our refereeing games is 57 00:02:43,787 --> 00:02:45,467 Speaker 3: you know, you've always got to learn. There's always something 58 00:02:45,467 --> 00:02:47,227 Speaker 3: you can take out of a match that it can 59 00:02:47,267 --> 00:02:48,827 Speaker 3: make you better for the next game that you do. 60 00:02:48,947 --> 00:02:50,867 Speaker 3: So I feel like that's probably been a big part 61 00:02:50,867 --> 00:02:52,427 Speaker 3: of it and something that I'll just I'll continue with 62 00:02:52,587 --> 00:02:53,387 Speaker 3: on my journey. 63 00:02:53,827 --> 00:02:55,987 Speaker 2: When you're doing a review, what is it that you're 64 00:02:56,027 --> 00:02:56,747 Speaker 2: watching for. 65 00:02:58,627 --> 00:02:59,787 Speaker 3: A lot of it, I mean there's a lot of 66 00:02:59,787 --> 00:03:02,787 Speaker 3: detail just around the decisions that I make. We'll make 67 00:03:02,867 --> 00:03:07,347 Speaker 3: correct here and obvious, what decisions that I miss, and 68 00:03:07,387 --> 00:03:10,307 Speaker 3: then things like how was my positioning in the game. 69 00:03:11,107 --> 00:03:12,987 Speaker 3: Could I be better the way that I communicate with 70 00:03:13,067 --> 00:03:16,787 Speaker 3: the players, was that a correct escalation process about to 71 00:03:16,787 --> 00:03:19,427 Speaker 3: give alow card. So all these things that make your 72 00:03:19,427 --> 00:03:22,227 Speaker 3: game understandable not just for the players, but for the 73 00:03:22,787 --> 00:03:24,707 Speaker 3: spectators and people watching the game as well. I want 74 00:03:24,707 --> 00:03:27,827 Speaker 3: it to be really clear to them how I'm officiating 75 00:03:27,907 --> 00:03:28,987 Speaker 3: and controlling. 76 00:03:28,547 --> 00:03:31,187 Speaker 2: The match and amongst those two hundred and twenty two 77 00:03:31,267 --> 00:03:33,787 Speaker 2: or two hundred and twenty one up till now, you've 78 00:03:34,027 --> 00:03:38,027 Speaker 2: controlled some massive matches Rugby World Cup semi finals. Do 79 00:03:38,067 --> 00:03:40,867 Speaker 2: you still get a buzz out of referring provincial rugby? 80 00:03:41,667 --> 00:03:45,387 Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely? Singles sort of go down my spine now 81 00:03:45,507 --> 00:03:48,107 Speaker 3: just thinking about, you know, the games that we got 82 00:03:48,107 --> 00:03:50,067 Speaker 3: coming up that you know, even just heading down the 83 00:03:50,067 --> 00:03:52,707 Speaker 3: book cover, like I almost feel like it. Even though 84 00:03:52,707 --> 00:03:54,787 Speaker 3: IVE done some massive games on line series and Rugby 85 00:03:54,787 --> 00:03:57,387 Speaker 3: World Cups, you know, you feel more pressure, you know, 86 00:03:57,507 --> 00:04:00,787 Speaker 3: doing NBC proviential games, doing super rugby games, because you 87 00:04:00,827 --> 00:04:03,547 Speaker 3: know there is there's an expectation that you do a really, 88 00:04:03,587 --> 00:04:07,027 Speaker 3: really good job. And I love that. I also love 89 00:04:07,227 --> 00:04:09,707 Speaker 3: the environment of going in and you know, I have 90 00:04:10,387 --> 00:04:14,187 Speaker 3: some young assistant referees, some new tmos that I can 91 00:04:14,187 --> 00:04:16,987 Speaker 3: work with, but also just the environment around you. There's 92 00:04:16,987 --> 00:04:18,627 Speaker 3: only a little bit of an aftermat to the NBC 93 00:04:18,747 --> 00:04:21,907 Speaker 3: game too, So those types of things I do find 94 00:04:22,187 --> 00:04:24,467 Speaker 3: more pressured because I want to do a really good job, 95 00:04:24,467 --> 00:04:27,387 Speaker 3: but I also love the environment around how everyone can 96 00:04:27,427 --> 00:04:28,747 Speaker 3: just enjoy it after the game as well. 97 00:04:28,947 --> 00:04:32,707 Speaker 2: How much responsibility responsibility, Ben, do you feel for nurturing 98 00:04:32,747 --> 00:04:35,067 Speaker 2: the next way you talked about some young officials. There 99 00:04:35,227 --> 00:04:37,187 Speaker 2: is that a responsibility that you take seriously. 100 00:04:38,027 --> 00:04:40,067 Speaker 3: Yeah, but Hurricane, that's one of the biggest things that 101 00:04:40,107 --> 00:04:42,467 Speaker 3: I'm sort of running towards now. I guess the responsibility 102 00:04:42,547 --> 00:04:46,667 Speaker 3: that I want. And you know, the game is trying 103 00:04:46,667 --> 00:04:49,067 Speaker 3: to work itself out of a whole internationally or so 104 00:04:49,787 --> 00:04:51,747 Speaker 3: regionally as well. We're trying to get people that love 105 00:04:51,787 --> 00:04:54,387 Speaker 3: the sport, and I think it's small part of that 106 00:04:54,587 --> 00:04:57,747 Speaker 3: is the referees and how we manage games, referee games 107 00:04:57,787 --> 00:05:00,547 Speaker 3: and allow people to understand the decisions that we're making. 108 00:05:00,587 --> 00:05:03,827 Speaker 3: So I feel a bit of responsibility to help that 109 00:05:03,947 --> 00:05:06,827 Speaker 3: drive to improve the game, and also, like I'll want to, 110 00:05:07,027 --> 00:05:09,227 Speaker 3: I want to be a leader and show the next 111 00:05:09,267 --> 00:05:13,747 Speaker 3: generation of young men and woman referees. Hopefully how to 112 00:05:13,787 --> 00:05:16,347 Speaker 3: do it my way and then hopefully they can get 113 00:05:16,347 --> 00:05:18,107 Speaker 3: better than me and and you know, go on to 114 00:05:18,147 --> 00:05:20,747 Speaker 3: the intersession stage and to be absolutely fantastic, which is 115 00:05:21,067 --> 00:05:23,107 Speaker 3: you know where we were out at the moment was 116 00:05:23,307 --> 00:05:26,227 Speaker 3: really really promising and really awesome referee at they're living 117 00:05:26,787 --> 00:05:28,347 Speaker 3: and I hope that would give many many more and 118 00:05:28,427 --> 00:05:30,507 Speaker 3: you know they can sort of surpass me and then 119 00:05:30,587 --> 00:05:32,227 Speaker 3: lead the way after f I'm done. 120 00:05:32,467 --> 00:05:34,427 Speaker 2: Well, you take the record from Patty O'Brien. You mentioned 121 00:05:34,467 --> 00:05:35,947 Speaker 2: that before, but can can you just give us a 122 00:05:35,947 --> 00:05:38,347 Speaker 2: bit of an insight into into the assistance he's given 123 00:05:38,387 --> 00:05:41,347 Speaker 2: you and the and the trail that he blazed for referees. 124 00:05:42,227 --> 00:05:45,587 Speaker 3: Well, he did professional referee, you know, him, along with 125 00:05:45,707 --> 00:05:48,307 Speaker 3: Colin Hawk, showed that you know, it could be the 126 00:05:48,427 --> 00:05:51,467 Speaker 3: job can be or personally a full time professional role, 127 00:05:52,587 --> 00:05:54,347 Speaker 3: and you know that it can be a job that 128 00:05:54,387 --> 00:05:57,307 Speaker 3: has taken very seriously and that to be to be 129 00:05:57,347 --> 00:05:59,347 Speaker 3: able to have long jevity, you have to work hard, 130 00:05:59,867 --> 00:06:02,507 Speaker 3: not just on the field, how you you know, you 131 00:06:02,627 --> 00:06:05,747 Speaker 3: move like he was a very physically active referee. He 132 00:06:05,827 --> 00:06:08,467 Speaker 3: was really really fast. The way that he managed players. 133 00:06:09,187 --> 00:06:10,507 Speaker 3: You know, it was something that you know, when we 134 00:06:10,507 --> 00:06:12,427 Speaker 3: were younger, we always sort of aspired to it. We 135 00:06:12,467 --> 00:06:15,027 Speaker 3: would take parts of what Paddy did, parts of what 136 00:06:15,107 --> 00:06:18,147 Speaker 3: Colin Hawke did, parts of what guys like Chris Pollock, 137 00:06:18,227 --> 00:06:20,947 Speaker 3: Bryce Lawrence ken Jackson did, and we'll try and mold 138 00:06:20,987 --> 00:06:23,347 Speaker 3: the best of that into how we refereed. So now, 139 00:06:23,427 --> 00:06:26,227 Speaker 3: all those referees that have gone before me, I've watched them, 140 00:06:26,267 --> 00:06:28,547 Speaker 3: and you know, I've studied them and taken a piece 141 00:06:28,547 --> 00:06:31,467 Speaker 3: of what they do really well and tried to include 142 00:06:31,467 --> 00:06:33,147 Speaker 3: it in the game that I or how I refereed. 143 00:06:33,627 --> 00:06:36,867 Speaker 2: How much has the officiating of the game changed during 144 00:06:36,907 --> 00:06:39,347 Speaker 2: these two hundred and twenty one games. 145 00:06:40,547 --> 00:06:42,667 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, look, if I think back to right at 146 00:06:42,707 --> 00:06:46,587 Speaker 3: the start, you know, we go through just the number 147 00:06:46,627 --> 00:06:49,107 Speaker 3: of camera angles that are there in the games, the 148 00:06:49,267 --> 00:06:51,467 Speaker 3: use of the TMO and the protocol around what the 149 00:06:51,467 --> 00:06:53,427 Speaker 3: TMO can come in for and what they can't come 150 00:06:53,467 --> 00:06:56,147 Speaker 3: in for, and even more recently just the law changes 151 00:06:56,187 --> 00:06:59,587 Speaker 3: to try and make the game faster also safer for the players. 152 00:06:59,587 --> 00:07:03,027 Speaker 3: So all of that has helped I think the game 153 00:07:03,147 --> 00:07:05,787 Speaker 3: grow into the right direction and it's going to keep 154 00:07:05,827 --> 00:07:07,787 Speaker 3: It's going to canntinue to do that. And what I 155 00:07:07,867 --> 00:07:11,867 Speaker 3: love is that over the last few years, players, coaches, 156 00:07:12,947 --> 00:07:15,027 Speaker 3: you know, key stakeholders in the game have also been 157 00:07:15,107 --> 00:07:18,267 Speaker 3: collaborating with referees to try and make that game you 158 00:07:18,347 --> 00:07:21,067 Speaker 3: know better for every run too. So I think it's 159 00:07:21,147 --> 00:07:23,787 Speaker 3: changed a lot over the two hundred and twenty two games, 160 00:07:23,827 --> 00:07:27,427 Speaker 3: as certainly I can remember I've helped to change. I 161 00:07:27,467 --> 00:07:29,947 Speaker 3: feel like it's gone in the right direction. So it's 162 00:07:29,947 --> 00:07:31,587 Speaker 3: exciting to still be a part of because I think 163 00:07:31,587 --> 00:07:34,667 Speaker 3: we can actually go a lot further than making a 164 00:07:34,707 --> 00:07:37,347 Speaker 3: game that we love, you know, more more enjoyable for 165 00:07:38,027 --> 00:07:39,947 Speaker 3: other parts of the world as well. So I think 166 00:07:39,947 --> 00:07:40,787 Speaker 3: it's pretty exciting. 167 00:07:41,347 --> 00:07:42,947 Speaker 2: Can you still watch a game of rugby as a 168 00:07:42,987 --> 00:07:45,827 Speaker 2: fan without refereeing it from the stand or from your couch? 169 00:07:46,467 --> 00:07:48,867 Speaker 3: Oh? No, I think I was five games five games 170 00:07:48,907 --> 00:07:50,867 Speaker 3: in and that kind of stopped for me unfortunately. And 171 00:07:51,147 --> 00:07:54,067 Speaker 3: I feel sorry for any any you know, close friends 172 00:07:54,107 --> 00:07:56,187 Speaker 3: and family as well, because I think they sort of 173 00:07:56,227 --> 00:07:59,307 Speaker 3: fixed on watching the referee too now. But me, no, 174 00:07:59,427 --> 00:08:01,787 Speaker 3: I always I've always sort of watching a game, and 175 00:08:02,187 --> 00:08:03,747 Speaker 3: you know, even though I can, I can really enjoy, 176 00:08:03,867 --> 00:08:05,547 Speaker 3: you know, watching the all backs of a fan. I'm 177 00:08:05,547 --> 00:08:08,987 Speaker 3: definitely you know, looking at where the referees positioned and 178 00:08:09,107 --> 00:08:11,427 Speaker 3: for the sistems that they make and the replays that 179 00:08:11,507 --> 00:08:13,827 Speaker 3: come on the big screen as well. So and I 180 00:08:13,947 --> 00:08:17,187 Speaker 3: enjoy it. But you know, it's a fascinating part of 181 00:08:17,267 --> 00:08:18,907 Speaker 3: the game. When I'm sort of sitting in the stands 182 00:08:18,947 --> 00:08:20,827 Speaker 3: or I'm sitting on the couch watching watching a game 183 00:08:20,867 --> 00:08:22,467 Speaker 3: of rugby, I think I can get a bit loud. 184 00:08:22,507 --> 00:08:26,827 Speaker 2: I think I don't believe that. I don't believe so too. 185 00:08:26,907 --> 00:08:28,947 Speaker 2: Twenty two this afternoon. What do you reckon the final 186 00:08:29,027 --> 00:08:29,467 Speaker 2: number will be? 187 00:08:32,267 --> 00:08:35,027 Speaker 3: Look, I don't know. I think I'm thirty five now, 188 00:08:35,027 --> 00:08:37,467 Speaker 3: and if you look at sort of the age of 189 00:08:37,747 --> 00:08:39,707 Speaker 3: you know, some some of the top referees have sort 190 00:08:39,707 --> 00:08:42,627 Speaker 3: of continued into their sort of late forties. I'd love 191 00:08:42,667 --> 00:08:44,867 Speaker 3: to I'd love to continue for another few World Cups. 192 00:08:45,107 --> 00:08:48,067 Speaker 3: Obviously We're a World Cup coming in Australia, the US 193 00:08:48,147 --> 00:08:50,307 Speaker 3: after that, and then you know, potentially out there as well. 194 00:08:50,347 --> 00:08:53,707 Speaker 3: But yeah, look, the body is really good right now. 195 00:08:54,387 --> 00:08:56,627 Speaker 3: I feel like I'm really contributing well to the game, 196 00:08:57,067 --> 00:08:59,907 Speaker 3: friends really well as well. So and also I feel like, 197 00:09:00,027 --> 00:09:01,227 Speaker 3: you know, there's sort of still a lot of stuff 198 00:09:01,227 --> 00:09:03,467 Speaker 3: that I can earn and get better at. So I 199 00:09:03,507 --> 00:09:06,787 Speaker 3: hope the runways quite long. I'm keen to stay. I'm 200 00:09:06,827 --> 00:09:09,387 Speaker 3: part of the game because it's a privilege to be. 201 00:09:09,827 --> 00:09:12,067 Speaker 3: It's got to run on any sort of field, you know, 202 00:09:12,107 --> 00:09:13,987 Speaker 3: not just around the world, but you know, especially in 203 00:09:14,027 --> 00:09:16,867 Speaker 3: New Zealand. You know, right from Super Rugbnb Seve and 204 00:09:16,907 --> 00:09:19,387 Speaker 3: to Club Rugby. You know, it's it's it's it's awesome. 205 00:09:20,427 --> 00:09:23,787 Speaker 3: So yeah, look, I'm hoping, I'm hoping it's it's a 206 00:09:23,827 --> 00:09:26,067 Speaker 3: long one, but it's not because you know, we've got 207 00:09:26,107 --> 00:09:28,267 Speaker 3: a lot of young refrees coming up and they take 208 00:09:28,347 --> 00:09:31,027 Speaker 3: over me and that's fine as well. I would have 209 00:09:31,067 --> 00:09:32,547 Speaker 3: left it in a good place. Yeah. 210 00:09:32,587 --> 00:09:34,067 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure there's a bit to come and join 211 00:09:34,187 --> 00:09:36,467 Speaker 2: number two too too this afternoon. Ben, thanks for chatting 212 00:09:36,467 --> 00:09:39,107 Speaker 2: and we'll catch up again soon. Bye, Thank no, thank 213 00:09:39,107 --> 00:09:40,827 Speaker 2: you mate. That has been O'Keefe on his way to 214 00:09:40,907 --> 00:09:43,467 Speaker 2: referee his two hundred and twenty second first class game 215 00:09:43,507 --> 00:09:46,827 Speaker 2: of fifteen's passing Patty O'Brien's two twenty one that record 216 00:09:47,107 --> 00:09:49,507 Speaker 2: dating back to two thousand and five. 217 00:09:50,347 --> 00:09:53,507 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 218 00:09:53,627 --> 00:09:56,907 Speaker 1: to News Talk sed B weekends from midday, or follow 219 00:09:56,947 --> 00:09:58,547 Speaker 1: the podcast on ihard Radio