1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: global exposure like no. 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 2: Other Huddler's This evening Jordan Williams, who's the executive director 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 2: of the Taxpayers Union and the Chief Executive of Infrastructure 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 2: New Zealand, mister Nick Leggett Calder CORDAUA, Jordan, are you 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 2: surprised that we are becoming even less religious than we 7 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 2: were previously? 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 3: No, I'm not really surprised. I mean, my mother made 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 3: enormous sacrifices and sent me through a Christian education, all 10 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 3: boys Anglican and then Presbyterian school. Despite please don't tell 11 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 3: anyone this, but despite to my embarrassment, winning the Religious 12 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 3: Studies trophy in my last year of high school, I 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 3: didn't even yet thinks, you know, I became very clear 14 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 3: once I started as a young lawyer, because of course, 15 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 3: so much of the the sort of moral metaphors biblical 16 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 3: that I just had no idea And it's sort of 17 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 3: to me it illustrates the problem with the Anglican, the press, 18 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 3: the traditional churches. Is at no point during my schooling 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,639 Speaker 3: where we sat down and told this is what we believe, 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 3: this is what they believe we're right, they're wrong, and 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 3: we scratch our head as to why the churches are dying. 22 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 3: They don't even teach it at school anymore. 23 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: Nick, what do you put it down to? 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 4: Well, I think it's just the general trend, is it 25 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 4: not that Western society has moved further away from organized religion, 26 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 4: you know, and religion and culture were so tied up 27 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 4: even fifty years ago in New Zealand, and that came 28 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 4: from the fact that our four Bears, the Parki of 29 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 4: four Bears, you know, often came from quite divided societies 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 4: and that were religious but base. You know, if you're 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 4: a Scottish you tended to be a Presbyterian, if you're Irish, 32 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 4: you tended to be Catholic. Those things broke down as 33 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 4: we intermarried, as we between Mary and Pakia, between Pakia 34 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 4: and Pakia, and we've formed a sort of a new 35 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 4: consensus in this country. But I think Jordan's points right 36 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 4: as well. And I think we've lost something because our 37 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 4: law is based on those sort of fundamental tenements and 38 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 4: we're not teaching it. That's a problem. 39 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, So more mood of the boardroom today. We'll get 40 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: to the ministerial rankings in a couple of minutes, but interesting, 41 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: the Finance Minister invited her opposition counterpart, Barbara Edmans, to 42 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: have a serious conversation about the future of superannuation in 43 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: New Zealand. Do you think this means that superannuation changes 44 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: will have bipartisan support? 45 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,399 Speaker 3: Jordan, Well, it's the only way to get it through. 46 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 3: I think this is very, very significant and good news 47 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 3: for taxpayers that oppositions both Labor and National have pointed 48 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 3: out the blindingly obvious for now many decades that enzed 49 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: super as it stands is unaffordable in the long term. 50 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 3: But now it's actually within the you know, it's within 51 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 3: the fiscal horizon. You look at last year, sorry, this 52 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: year's budget. You know, we're currently spending nineteen and a 53 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 3: half billion dollars for NZ Super. In just five years time, 54 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 3: we're spending twenty seven point nine billion. It's a forty 55 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 3: three percent increase in just five years. So what it's 56 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 3: twenty eight billion across a revenue forecast to be about 57 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty billion total tax take by the 58 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 3: end of that period. It is just enormous and every 59 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 3: expert will tell you that we've got to deal with it. 60 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 3: But what we're seeing is that actually you can't really 61 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 3: continue to kick the can down the road because here 62 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 3: it is. 63 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: I know that the Retirement Commission says that actually New 64 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: Zealand super as it stands, with full eligibility at sixty 65 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: five is sustainable in the future, but it probably depends 66 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: on which economists you speak to. 67 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 4: Nick. 68 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: If Labor and National actually agree to this, do you 69 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: think we're going to get anywhere? Because in the past 70 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: there's always been a bit of politicking on both sides, 71 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: but obviously it's the likes of New Zealand First and 72 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: Act that have really polar opposed positions. 73 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, look the numbers are eye watering and they 74 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 4: are unsustainable. So the only way to deal with this 75 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,799 Speaker 4: is to reach across the aisle if you're the government 76 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 4: in this case or if you're National. So I think 77 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 4: Nikola Willis has done the absolute right thing in making 78 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 4: the public signal, and Barbara Evans is the finance spokesperson 79 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 4: for Labor, is the ideal person to grab her hand 80 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 4: because she's sensible too. So what we've got to do 81 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 4: I think Kiwis like by partisnship. It's the only way 82 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 4: to deal with the big problems confronting us, and this 83 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 4: is not the only one. But what we've got to 84 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 4: do is ensure that we actually get to you know, 85 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 4: and this is where public pressure comes on. And Jack, 86 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 4: you've been involved in discussions and infrastructure recently, where we 87 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,799 Speaker 4: where the infrastructure industry wants by parsnship as well. It's 88 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 4: a nice term, but it's actually incumbent on Kiwi's on 89 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 4: all of us who comment, who watch, who are involved, 90 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 4: you know, as citizens, to make sure that something tangible 91 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,799 Speaker 4: falls out at the bottom. And we have to grasp 92 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 4: this and we have to make sure that at least 93 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 4: both the major parties can come to some kind of 94 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 4: place in the middle where we stage out. You know, 95 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 4: sixty five has been the place that you know that 96 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 4: the age that we get universal super Jack, you, Jordan 97 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 4: and myself, we're all sort of in an age group. 98 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 4: It seems I've never bet on the fact that in 99 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 4: twenty years time I'm going to get a nice weekly 100 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 4: superannuation payment. And we shouldn't do that. We should think 101 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 4: about phasing that in later. And now you know, the 102 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 4: conversation has to start. 103 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we'll be back with a huddle in 104 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 2: a couple of minutes. Netlely Get Jordan Williams right now 105 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 2: thirteen to six. 106 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty Elevator Marketing 107 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: of your Home. 108 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 2: On the Huddle this evening, Nick Leggett and Jordan Williams. 109 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 2: So Nick, a nineteen year old has been arrested in 110 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: charge for a smishing scam. If you've never heard of 111 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 2: the words smishing, I hadn't until today either. Basically, it 112 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 2: means using technology to send out hundreds and hundreds of 113 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 2: text messages that look like they've come from a reputable 114 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: source like a bank or something like that, asking for 115 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 2: people's personal information. Have you got one of these texts before? 116 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 4: Yes, like most people. I think I have. And I 117 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 4: don't know why we're surprised at the nineteen year old. 118 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 4: Who are the people that are the smartest with technology. 119 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 4: It does tend to be younger people. But it is concerning, 120 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 4: And you know, I mean, as fast as we build 121 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 4: the barriers to stop these kind of scams, the scammers 122 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 4: are building you know, flash of stuff to overcome them. 123 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 4: So it's just it's something we have to live with, 124 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 4: doesn't that we have to keep pushing back. 125 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 2: Against Yes, it is. One of the Texas has suggested 126 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 2: Jordan that perhaps this young person deserves not time in 127 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 2: the cells, but maybe a firm hand on their shoulder 128 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 2: and some guidance to an IT company or something like that. 129 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 2: Maybe with these skills could be used for good. 130 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 3: All the security services. Yeah, I mean this is something 131 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 3: that obviously given work in politics, something I think about 132 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 3: a lot, and something that's worried me for a long 133 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 3: time is the vulnerability of our telecommunications, something that's starting 134 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 3: to happen more and more in New Zealand. It's similar 135 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 3: to this. It's something called sim swapping, which it looks 136 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 3: like this basically replicated it sort of created a sort 137 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: of fictitious or false mobile network to connect to your 138 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 3: phone and send these what the phone thinks and network messages. 139 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 3: I've tried to engage with one and spark. Spark will 140 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 3: absolutely useless about extra steps that one could take if 141 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 3: you work in politics or you know, the corporate world, 142 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 3: because one of the biggest vulnerabilities for people like you 143 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 3: and me jack as a basic sim swap, and it's 144 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 3: starting to happen more and more in New Zealand. And 145 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 3: I think that our telecommunications companies are. I mean, it's 146 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 3: great that this has been pounced on, but I listened 147 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 3: to that interview earlier with it was it Gary Williams 148 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 3: or someone saying that how quick DIA and the telecoms 149 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 3: were onto us. That certainly is not what I've experienced 150 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 3: in New Zealand, both with the telecoms and in terms 151 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 3: of cybersecurity and political parties and political organizations. I can 152 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 3: tell you that my equivalents around the world have a 153 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 3: heck of a lot better support, whereas here I know 154 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 3: that even the political parties get no assistance whatsoever in 155 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 3: terms of ensuring that these systems aren't manipulated by foreign 156 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 3: actors or hackers. 157 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 2: Is that right? 158 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 3: They get none, No just walking to the political parties 159 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 3: and obviously something that we think about. Whereas I know 160 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 3: in Britain, for example, because the Chinese focus on think tanks, 161 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 3: there's a there's a their equivalent of GCSB actually help 162 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 3: are pretty proactive in ensuring that civil society. You know 163 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: that civil society is protected. Except for this, I don't 164 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 3: want to go in to each other. There's something happened 165 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 3: to us during the election. Except for incident responses, which 166 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 3: we've found our security services very good with there's very 167 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 3: little in terms of defense at the top. Yeah yeah, 168 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 3: the actual defense put ensuring we're in the defensive position. 169 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: Yeah all right. Hey, thanks for your time, guys. I 170 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 2: appreciated our huddle this evening. Nickley get the chief executive 171 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 2: of Infrastructure New Zealand and the executive director of the 172 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: Taxpayers Union, Jordan Williams. It is seven to six on 173 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: News Talks dB. 174 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to 175 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: News Talks i'd Be from four pm weekdays, or follow 176 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.