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Speaker 1: More warnings from our power sector. A new paper suggests

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Speaker 1: that without new gas then industrial, commercial and domestic users

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Speaker 1: that all of us really could run dry by twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty nine. It also raises fears that New Zealander of

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Speaker 1: New Zealand' and d industrialization. Our Resources Minister Shane Jones

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Speaker 1: is with as Shane.

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Speaker 2: Morning, Hey, morning vote, How how.

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Speaker 1: Worried is the government right here right now on this.

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Speaker 2: Well? Obviously the gas fields off the coast and Taranaki

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Speaker 2: have declined precipitously and no one imagined that they were

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Speaker 2: dropped so quickly. And since twenty eighteen, no one's been

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Speaker 2: encouraged or incentivised or quite frankly allowed to go out

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Speaker 2: and re establish the oil and gas industry up to

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Speaker 2: just under juvenile call. And it's had a devastating effect,

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Speaker 2: especially in Taranaki and a lot of our firms they

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Speaker 2: would like to move on from gas, but the period

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Speaker 2: of time it's going to require and the cost means,

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Speaker 2: as Catherine Rich said, a lot of people there are

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Speaker 2: very doubtful.

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Speaker 1: Are we really going to run dry in four years time?

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Speaker 2: In simple terms, what's going to happen in twenty nine

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Speaker 2: point thirty in the event that we either don't put

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Speaker 2: gas or we don't find a major find is that

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Speaker 2: the demand will still be there, but the supply will

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Speaker 2: be below the demand, and there will be a fraction

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Speaker 2: of gas available but for those big users, and quite frankly,

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Speaker 2: the energy companies use quite a lot of gas and

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Speaker 2: they can pay because they hand it on to you

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Speaker 2: and I That's what the crisis will be. There will

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Speaker 2: be too many businesses in New Zealand still dependent on gas,

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Speaker 2: and the supply of the gas will be below their

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Speaker 2: need for.

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Speaker 1: Gas, and so the price will go up, and only

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Speaker 1: those who can afford it will do it. So where

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Speaker 1: are the meetings at? Can you degas a company? Do

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Speaker 1: they want to degas? Are their alternatives as any of

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Speaker 1: that real?

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Speaker 2: Well? Some of them are endeavoring to shift I mean

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Speaker 2: full marks to the Genesis. It is probably the CEO

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Speaker 2: that I can understand most lucidly, the chap who Malcolm,

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Speaker 2: the chap who runs Genesis. He has said that they

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Speaker 2: are willing to what gas they have make it available

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Speaker 2: for industrial people, and they will continue to import coal.

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Speaker 2: But I'm waiting for them to start digging up the

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Speaker 2: coal ten meters or ten kilometers away from Huntry rather

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Speaker 2: than bring coal in from Indonesia. We have the ability

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Speaker 2: to make more gas available if we burn more coal

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Speaker 2: in the short term. Both of those were demonized and

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Speaker 2: tainted by j Cinda and Megan Woods, who, by the way,

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Speaker 2: is still going to overturn our legislation and reinstate the ban.

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Speaker 2: That's our mad things are.

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Speaker 1: Exactly Is the LPG idea real or not? I mean,

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Speaker 1: can we bring it in from a strayer at a

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Speaker 1: cost that we can afford or not?

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Speaker 2: Well, when you and I grew up, our gas was

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Speaker 2: two to three four dollars at most. It then went

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Speaker 2: up to twelve to fifteen in the last eighteen months

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Speaker 2: twenty four months. We've been advised that we can bring

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Speaker 2: it in from, if not Australia, from America and other places.

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Speaker 2: But it's likely to be north of twenty dollars. A

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Speaker 2: big change for a country that's being used to bind

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Speaker 2: gas at two to four dollars.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, all right, mate, nice to talk, appreciate it. Shane Jones,

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Speaker 1: Resources Minister. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen

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