1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,320
Speaker 1: Tris Shurson Tim Wilson with us this morning Morning you.

2
00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:06,120
Speaker 2: Guys, Good morning, morning morning, And why.

3
00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,520
Speaker 1: Are you sending us these studies about smart people being evil?

4
00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:12,680
Speaker 2: I think it's just it's a it's a it's this

5
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,080
Speaker 2: is from the General Intelligence, so it's not some wonky study,

6
00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,000
Speaker 2: as Trish was trying to allege just before we came on.

7
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,639
Speaker 2: It's I think I think we have this sort of idea.

8
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,920
Speaker 2: There's a commonly held view that intelligence equals moral fiber,

9
00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,600
Speaker 2: and this study suggests that intelligence actually means you can

10
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 2: argue your way out of moral constraints. So it's just helpful.

11
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:34,959
Speaker 3: I think.

12
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,159
Speaker 1: Are moral constraints are necessarily a good thing?

13
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course they are. Of course, of course they

14
00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,920
Speaker 2: are because they because they shape our behavior, they shape societies. Yeah.

15
00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,360
Speaker 3: Well, I'm almost going to wade into some deeper water

16
00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,120
Speaker 3: here with Tim, which might be slightly tricky, but I

17
00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 3: am not a church going person and give a bit

18
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,320
Speaker 3: of a side eye in terms of moral fiber over

19
00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,840
Speaker 3: that way. So I haven't seen this study. I love

20
00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,360
Speaker 3: how Tim just slips this one in without circulating it,

21
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 3: so no one can really go through what they I

22
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:14,560
Speaker 3: said it out last night.

23
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,600
Speaker 1: I read I read you can't come anybody for your laziness.

24
00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,720
Speaker 2: Sorry, yeah, you can't write anybody for your laziness. And Trush,

25
00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:22,800
Speaker 2: I'm not saying you're not a moral person because you

26
00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:23,520
Speaker 2: don't go to church.

27
00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,320
Speaker 1: Of course, not you are, No, Tim, I'm going to

28
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,120
Speaker 1: come back at you on this one. Okay. So morals

29
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,800
Speaker 1: are what you think they are, right, So, so basically

30
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,959
Speaker 1: you might think that saving the lizards is the moral

31
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,440
Speaker 1: thing to do, but Trish may think that saving the

32
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,560
Speaker 1: jobs is the moral thing to do. And then you're

33
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,520
Speaker 1: just going with your gut instincts. But actually the smart

34
00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 1: people are the ones who consider it abandon the morals

35
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:47,240
Speaker 1: and go for the right thing. Let's yeah, that and

36
00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,560
Speaker 1: that is too complicated, too complicated.

37
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,640
Speaker 2: No, no, it's not too complicated. But there's actually what

38
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,960
Speaker 2: this what the survey says is there's there's two there's

39
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,920
Speaker 2: two different kinds of moral decisions. One is the individualizing,

40
00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 2: which is about care quality. Others are more binding things

41
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,680
Speaker 2: like loyalty, authority, proportionality. So these are all means that

42
00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:14,920
Speaker 2: we use to assess our moral behavior. Intelligence can act

43
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,360
Speaker 2: on those, But what the survey found was that intelligence

44
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,640
Speaker 2: could actually help you evade them. So if we say, okay,

45
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 2: let's not worry about the lizards and go for the gold,

46
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,000
Speaker 2: that's fine. That's actually a decision based on assessing all

47
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,080
Speaker 2: of the options. It's not necessarily a moral one.

48
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,400
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. Your intelligence helps you make excuses.

49
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,639
Speaker 1: But on the subject of the lizards, Trish, what would

50
00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,519
Speaker 1: you choose the lizards or the jobs?

51
00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:45,320
Speaker 3: I would choose going ahead with the development down there.

52
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,440
Speaker 3: And I'm going to put a different spin on this.

53
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,720
Speaker 3: I'm going to put taps into this mix instead of lizards.

54
00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 3: I don't know if you saw there was a story

55
00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,040
Speaker 3: in the last couple of weeks about another there was

56
00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 3: a plumbing business around New Zealand was going under, and

57
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,639
Speaker 3: I thought, you know, how many taps are not being

58
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:12,080
Speaker 3: put in New Zealand because of planners and others saying

59
00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 3: no to projects. And so it's the same with the

60
00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,760
Speaker 3: lizards down in the South Island. If you look at

61
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,240
Speaker 3: the construction industry overall in New Zealand, it's one of

62
00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,119
Speaker 3: that's struggling the most because it's mired in this kind

63
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,240
Speaker 3: of stuff. It's mired and people just saying no.

64
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,960
Speaker 1: Do you think I think Tim that The solution is

65
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,080
Speaker 1: actually we go ahead with the mine, we save some

66
00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,120
Speaker 1: of the lizards, and then we just if we lose them,

67
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 1: we reverse engineer them like the moa.

68
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was actually thinking thinking about that too. Oh

69
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 2: you know, just geniet at the moas. But pardon me,

70
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,360
Speaker 2: the lizards back into existence. The problem, the problem with

71
00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 2: which genech editing is unintended consequences. So, for example, five

72
00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,120
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million birds have perished across the UK

73
00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,720
Speaker 2: and Europe because of the loss of food sources because

74
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:05,559
Speaker 2: of herbicide tolerant, genetically modified plants. That's changed the ecosystems

75
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 2: that those birds used to feed on. So you know,

76
00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 2: I mean, well, if we re engineer the moa and

77
00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,720
Speaker 2: it decides it likes to eat kiwi for breakfast, what if.

78
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,000
Speaker 1: It decides it likes to eat us.

79
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:22,080
Speaker 3: Well, here's the reality about the moa story this week

80
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,640
Speaker 3: is that even though we have had their most amazing

81
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 3: moa discovery in New Zealand, it was absolutely the fascination

82
00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,200
Speaker 3: of Victorian England the discovery of the moa. And it

83
00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 3: was one tiny piece of moa thigh bone, tiny like

84
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,919
Speaker 3: an inch long, that was taken from the East coast

85
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,000
Speaker 3: over to London and studied there. From that one piece,

86
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 3: they imagined the moa into existence, which is pretty amazing

87
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,280
Speaker 3: when you think about it. But in all of the

88
00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,440
Speaker 3: bits of moa that we've got, and there are some

89
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,680
Speaker 3: huge collections in Otago and Canterbury, there is not a

90
00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,200
Speaker 3: full genome sequencing. So these things are going to be

91
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:00,960
Speaker 3: like they're going to be frank and.

92
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 1: Moaes, aren't they parading as much?

93
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,920
Speaker 3: They're going to be hybrid. But but also don't forget

94
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,720
Speaker 3: this that along with the moa, the hunting of the moa,

95
00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,240
Speaker 3: its habitat went so up and up in central Otago

96
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 3: where that's a huge moonscape. Now, I've always thought that

97
00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,719
Speaker 3: was what it was like. That was one of our

98
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,159
Speaker 3: most lush carpeted places of forest where the moa lived.

99
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,120
Speaker 3: And when they got burnt out or smoked out by

100
00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,640
Speaker 3: the hunters, the habitat went and the haast eagle went

101
00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 3: along with it. Okay, here's where for them to live.

102
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:39,000
Speaker 2: Million million. I've got a million dollar idea, I can.

103
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,800
Speaker 1: I can not wait to hear it and then Tim

104
00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:43,000
Speaker 1: hit us with it.

105
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:48,360
Speaker 2: Okay, So I've got the perfect ppe right public private venture.

106
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,400
Speaker 2: So what we do is we genetically spliced the moer. Okay,

107
00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,440
Speaker 2: we bring them back, we put them on farms, we

108
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,240
Speaker 2: farm them, then we eat them. We get KFC. And

109
00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,279
Speaker 2: you've heard about KFC, right, k f M can Tucky

110
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,640
Speaker 2: fried More the best thing since sliced bread? Talk about

111
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,040
Speaker 2: wicked wings? Yeah, No, Kasha billion dollar industry.

112
00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,400
Speaker 1: Worth waiting for. I think worth waiting for. Smith and

113
00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 1: Coey's are selling off the Santa stuff. Who's gonna buy it?

114
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:13,360
Speaker 1: Are you gonna buy it?

115
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,200
Speaker 3: I'm not paying I'm not paying forty grand for a

116
00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,520
Speaker 3: recycled center, Sleigh. I thought that I thought it was

117
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,360
Speaker 3: a bit rich for me. It was a bit rich

118
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:24,840
Speaker 3: for me.

119
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:28,159
Speaker 2: Some people together.

120
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 3: Then there were some gold mannequins, and I've always just

121
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,120
Speaker 3: personal thing in mine. I've always found the mannequin a

122
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,800
Speaker 3: bit creepy. So no, I don't think I'm going to

123
00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,000
Speaker 3: be bidding in this auction, do you know what?

124
00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,640
Speaker 1: Please? I hope to God that my husband's not listening

125
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,840
Speaker 1: to this, because we once had mannequins and he got

126
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:47,039
Speaker 1: them from a shop.

127
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:53,520
Speaker 3: That had c private talk. There's something just between you

128
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 3: and Barry.

129
00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know it meant like in retrospect maybe it

130
00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,919
Speaker 1: should have been, but they were gold as well. He

131
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,719
Speaker 1: got them from a shop and they stood by the

132
00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,840
Speaker 1: spar pool in Wellington for such a long time. I

133
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,600
Speaker 1: don't know what happened to them in the end, and

134
00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,960
Speaker 1: they are utterly pointless. But there are some people, aren't

135
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 1: they who collect weird things like this, and I feel

136
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 1: like that would be you, Tim.

137
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,560
Speaker 2: No, we're actucept the stage. We're trying to have less

138
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 2: rather than more because we just moved house and so

139
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 2: decluttering is the mode. So no, we're not accumulating, we're shedding.

140
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:28,720
Speaker 1: What brought on the house move.

141
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 2: I wanted to be closer to the school the boys

142
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,600
Speaker 2: are going to. They're going to a new charter school

143
00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,280
Speaker 2: in green Lane, so oh.

144
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:39,680
Speaker 1: Well that makes sense. Are you able to walk? Do

145
00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:40,480
Speaker 1: you the kids walk?

146
00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,280
Speaker 2: Yep, they can walk to school. They've got to go

147
00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:43,960
Speaker 2: past the macas though, so I'll have to work on

148
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,800
Speaker 2: their moral fiber. I hope they're not too smart.

149
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 1: Oh look, tell me something, trus am I am I

150
00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,320
Speaker 1: because I mean my kids are very small, but the

151
00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,680
Speaker 1: thought of them walking to school does terrify me somewhat.

152
00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 1: Is that just a period that I'm going through? Is

153
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,160
Speaker 1: that going to happen at some stage. I'll be fine

154
00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,080
Speaker 1: with it.

155
00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,720
Speaker 3: You will be absolutely fine with it. And you know

156
00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:02,400
Speaker 3: you're going to love it when the old the waka

157
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,600
Speaker 3: why way the walking school bus turns up outside the

158
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,720
Speaker 3: front door and you can say, Marty, whatter the kids

159
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,360
Speaker 3: for the day. It's time. It's a lovely moment in

160
00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:10,440
Speaker 3: any parent's day.

161
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,000
Speaker 2: Now you just started speaking, gray Lynn, Yeah totally.

162
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,960
Speaker 1: It was no one understood what happened.

163
00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,440
Speaker 3: We had the wakaway why that's what we had around here. Yeah,

164
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:20,280
Speaker 3: that's the way we roll.

165
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,200
Speaker 2: But there'll be lovely kids going to school together. And yeah, yeah,

166
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,320
Speaker 2: just the I used to love walking to school. We

167
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,680
Speaker 2: used to my mother. My mother used to walk to

168
00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 2: school actually in this now, of course this was a

169
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,720
Speaker 2: while ago, but she would walk to school from to

170
00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,000
Speaker 2: Richmond Road from sort of Herne Bay and you know,

171
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,400
Speaker 2: going past tram lines and stuff like that, and her

172
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:41,480
Speaker 2: mum just said see you later.

173
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:42,920
Speaker 3: She's five years old.

174
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:44,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a different world.

175
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no shoes, five years old, gigantic backpack as

176
00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,439
Speaker 1: it was back in the day. Listen, I'm trish. I

177
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,640
Speaker 1: don't know that I I might have made a mistake

178
00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,120
Speaker 1: giving the all Blacks advice on how to play rugby.

179
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:55,800
Speaker 1: What do you think?

180
00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,640
Speaker 3: Well, I thought it was a bold call, questioning their

181
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,600
Speaker 3: perform it's under the high ball here that I did.

182
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,280
Speaker 3: There was a sharp intake of breath at my house

183
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,760
Speaker 3: when you went down that road. I thought, all, that's dangerous,

184
00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:08,920
Speaker 3: pretty dangers.

185
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if you could tell, Trish,

186
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,959
Speaker 1: but I was feeling uncertain about it, and I think

187
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:15,320
Speaker 1: but I.

188
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,520
Speaker 3: Have also picked up this morning. I love the word

189
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,960
Speaker 3: that they still use in rugby, and I think for

190
00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,840
Speaker 3: cricket teams, when you've got a debutante, you know, a

191
00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,600
Speaker 3: new player in the team. It's such a hilarious and

192
00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,360
Speaker 3: old fashioned word, and when you think of what debutants

193
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,840
Speaker 3: actually are, it always just brings a smile to my face.

194
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,439
Speaker 2: Guys, as what if a young woman being presented to society,

195
00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,719
Speaker 2: I don't know how that would go down in the changing.

196
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,559
Speaker 1: Sounds very very rugby, masculine rugby word. Hey, guys, thank

197
00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,000
Speaker 1: you so much. Just wonderful to talk to the pair

198
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,080
Speaker 1: of you and go and enjoy your weekend. That is

199
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,120
Speaker 1: Tris Sharson and Tim Wilson. And I'm still tying up

200
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,280
Speaker 1: from this. I'm still copping it on the text, and

201
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,800
Speaker 1: mainly I'm copping it from Sam for thinking that I

202
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,920
Speaker 1: for having the gaul to tell the All Black Sport

203
00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:56,280
Speaker 1: to do.

204
00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,280
Speaker 2: You didn't go hard enough. You should have told them

205
00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 2: not to kick at all.

206
00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, he said it, and not me. I love Damien McKenzie.

207
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,720
Speaker 1: Damien McKenzie is the best. You know what, I'll tell

208
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,480
Speaker 1: you what I'm terrified about now is that Damien McKenzie

209
00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,600
Speaker 1: runs out tomorrow and plays a shocker of a game

210
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,800
Speaker 1: because I've given him the yips with like they've been

211
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,320
Speaker 1: protecting him his mental health and I've just gone just

212
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,360
Speaker 1: all over it by saying that.

213
00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,800
Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

214
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,000
Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

215
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,600
Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio