WEBVTT - Could AI fix NZ's ailing health system? 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.479 Our health sector is in trouble, short staffed, under resourced, 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:08.480 overwhelmed with patients who have complex and expensive needs. 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:12.479 Our hospitals are among the least progressive in the Western 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:16.759 world when it comes to digital health. Just as artificial 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:21.040 intelligence shows potential to cut down ADMIN that sucks the 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:22.880 life out of our doctors and nurses. 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.079 So what can AI do for our health system. 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:28.960 And what are the barriers that are preventing its uptake? 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:32.360 On the Business Attack sponsored by two degrees Business this week, 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.080 AI and how it could enhance public health if we 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.480 can get our digital health house in order. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.360 When you talk to healthcare organizations across New Zealand at 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:43.440 the moment and just ask the question of the board 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.200 or the teams or even their chief Data and Digital officer, 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:50.400 do you have an AI strategy? The answer is no. 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.240 Doctor Will Reedy is on the EXTENTSI of New Zealand 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:58.000 leadership team and part of the consulting firm's global health team. Now, Ben, 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.560 your interview with will really get me one of the 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.520 best overviews of where we're at with AI in health 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.759 space in New Zealand. So everyone stick around for that. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.160 First though and keeping the health theme going. The Dyson 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:14.640 Awards for Design Excellence are underway now, annual global awards 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:18.280 where British inventor Sir James Dyson searches the world for 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.440 the best young designers. The New Zealand winner has just 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:23.880 been announced and Peter, I believe you were one of 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:24.440 the judges. 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.639 Yeah, they got me on just to run the ruler 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:30.760 over it in terms of is this something that's going 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.520 to connect with a big audience. We had health experts 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.120 and other design experts. One of the top designers from 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:40.640 Dyson was a judge as well. This was the first 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.560 time I judged it, so it was really good. But 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:47.280 the one that won was one of the most simple 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:52.200 ones really, but was a design that we thought actually 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.440 had a really addressable market. No one else was doing 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.240 this and it's called the snapcap and a very simple 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:05.559 device that really helps frontline health professionals deal with the 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:11.000 containers that medicines come in, glass containers that need to 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:16.240 be dismantled quickly on the frontline inwards and put in 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.320 a sharpy bin to get rid of this stuff. You 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.720 need a device to pull these things apart and break 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:27.000 them open, and amazingly there wasn't one in existence. 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.320 Yeah, it's a really cool looking device. It looks kind 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:31.560 of like our twenty first century bottle opener. 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:33.359 Very simple in. 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:39.000 Design, very esthetically pleasing in design, and obviously much needed 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.320 because I think in your interview you talk about the 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:46.360 fact that frontline health professionals actually do get injuries from 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.520 trying to open these little glass bottles. 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:52.119 Yeah, they do, and it's just a reminder of how 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:57.480 much our frontline health workforce have to do all sorts 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.720 of little jobs you don't even think of that is 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.480 up to them. So if we can make their lives 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:07.400 easier and hopefully do it at a cheap price, that's great. 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:08.320 You know. 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:11.520 This was just one of about a dozen designs that 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.720 we looked at. Some of the other stuff that was 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.840 sort of like an exoskeleton that would replace a moon boot. 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:22.120 There was insuls that can be customizable and three D 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.360 printed for people who have problems with their feet if 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:29.000 they've got potentially diabetes or something like that. There was 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.120 a little sense so that you can put on the 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.240 back of your shoulder if you're out jogging on a street. 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.840 It will give you haptic feedback if it thinks that 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:38.600 a car is getting too close to you or is 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.280 potentially going to take you out, so great to see 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:42.120 that creativity. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.160 I love the simplicity of the winning design, and listening 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:49.320 to your conversation with the designer, Jack Pew gave me 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.400 some really good insight into kind of how he got 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.080 there and what he was thinking and the balance of 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:57.800 talent and pragmatism that led him there. So let's have 0:03:57.840 --> 0:03:59.360 a listen to that interview. 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:06.080 Now, Jack Pugh, Welcome to the Business of Tech, and 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:11.200 congratulations on winning the New Zealand Dyson Awards. You were 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:15.080 crowned the best design off about a dozen. I was 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.280 under the actual judging panel, so I saw all of 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:22.160 these dozen or so designs. Tell us a little bit 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.400 about yourself, Jack, Where are you from? How did you 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:25.640 get into design? 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.200 Thanks Peter. So, I'm from christ Church, originally going to 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.159 sort of come up to the Capital to study at Messy. 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.440 I've always been quite interested in design when I was little. 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.600 Any when you ask would tell you that I always 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:40.400 wanted to be an inventor. So it's really cool to 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.960 be able to sort of do this and have some 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:43.880 recognition for it. 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.280 You've won this award. Take us through your winning design. 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.080 It's called the cap Snap what did you set out 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.280 to achieve with the cap snap and what is it? 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.240 Well, it's a simple tool for a simple problem in 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:00.679 the theory, a medical ball opener for health professionals working 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.120 with medications where they'd look to recycle them by taking 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:08.160 off the aluminium crimpsy your caps, or to open these 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.760 little glass vials which old medication called ampules. There's some 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.600 safety risks associated with both, and so this tool kind 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:17.320 of lets them do it in a real quick and 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:17.880 easy way. 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.960 Yeah, it looks like a bottle opener, and essentially it 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.640 is a bottle opener. Yeah, functionally, because you know, just 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.760 to try and visualize it, and unfortunately, I've got a 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.840 lot of experience of this now visiting sick relatives in hospital. 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.560 You'll see a medicine bottle. It's got some in this 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:41.400 in the case, i know, immunotherapy liquid drug in it. 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:45.680 It's a glass bottle, it's got an aluminium cap which 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.240 is snug on it. You've got to separate those two 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:53.120 things to recycle these materials. You also have, as you say, amples, 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.279 these little sort of sealed glass containers that you have 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.640 to crack open literally to get the liquid out of them. 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.039 But they're really damn fiddly. And what I loved about 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:07.240 your design. You've got one little device that probably doesn't 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.400 cost that much to make, and it does both. It 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.240 removes that aluminum casing from the top of the glass 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.919 bottle and you can insert the ampule into the bottom 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.239 of it and crack it in half. So the big 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.080 benefit I saw from it is cutting down on the 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:26.400 potential for nurses and doctors to hurt themselves going through 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:31.200 that process cutting themselves on glass or on aluminium or 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.560 a tool trying to take that off. It does both 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:34.400 of those purposes. 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.880 Yeah, that's right. The ways that people are currently getting 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.480 around both those issues is they're using kind of makeshift 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.920 solutions alcohol pads to step ampules, so at least if 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.760 it does shedd in an unpredictable way, the glass will 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.760 go into the air instead. And with those aluminium's caps, 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.040 they're real fiddly. If you ever see someone tri tech 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.240 one off, they don't have good tools suited for it, 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.880 so they're using kind of four steps and kind of 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:01.800 straining their hands to be able to pull them off. 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.839 Yeah, it's dangerous. And you know what I love is 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.640 the simplicity of this. Take us through your your design 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:12.600 approach to this. This is a very specialized piece of equipment, 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:17.960 So what work did you go through sort of talking 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:23.360 to frontline health practitioners to inform the design of cap snap. 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:24.920 Kind of things started off just kind of as a 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.920 conversation on what are the issues, kind of what are 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:32.040 they doing at the moment, and then from there tried 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.400 to think of kind of a range of solutions. What 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.000 would something handheld and quick and easy look like. First, 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.200 maybe something mounted to the wall, or like a mix 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.280 of both, something that's kind of a bit of a hybrid. 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.480 And I kind of drew up some ideas and sat 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.000 down with a member of the team and we kind 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.240 of talked through some of the ideas and we ended 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.200 up deciding that something that was real quick and small 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:56.400 and portable to be able to be moved around if necessary, 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.320 would be the kind of the best way forward. And 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.400 then from there I kind of springboard into a bit 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:07.560 of antive process, found some studies overseas looking at similar things. 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.560 We kind of developed into well, it's a bottle with 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:15.200 a cap, how about a botopner. We'll keep it super 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.800 super easy. And then some of the issues that came 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.440 up with one size kind of we couldn't have a 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:24.000 one size fits all approach to have it be real functional, 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.440 So we looked at what if we had a bollopner 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:28.600 that could sort of adjust and through that kind of 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:32.400 linear motion, we could incorporate that really seamlessly into the 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:33.720 ampule snapping function. 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.080 It's interesting this was not, by any means the most 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:41.800 elaborate or sophisticated design that we came across the judging 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.440 panel for the dice and awards. There were all sorts 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:50.680 of quite elaborate designs that were probably required a lot 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:55.920 more design forinesse. But what I loved about this one 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.400 is that when I did research about it, no one 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:00.360 was really doing this. Why do you think no one 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.960 in the health profession has come up with something like this? 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.640 Yet you get these things like the ampules or the 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.280 crimseal caps, and then the job has to be done, 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.160 so you come up with a workaround and you kind 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.440 of that's just what you do. And then in a 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:17.880 good and bad way, people don't make a lot of 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.359 noise about it. And so we've got all this potential 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:25.280 for interesting design solutions or just simple little fixes for 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.239 these health staff we're having to do all these workarounds 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.640 on a kind of a daily basis that just sort 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:32.719 of someone needs to have a look at and try 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:33.880 to come up with something. 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.240 And that's exactly what you've done. You know, Sir James 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:43.240 Dyson is famous for being a real iterative designer. Did 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.720 you go through numerous iterations and either future obvious ones 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:48.800 you see for this device to make it even better? 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.400 Yeah, So a real fun part of the process is 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.240 going through the iterations. So we went through a few 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.440 different iterations looking at how I can keep it as 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.840 simple as possible and reduce kind of them the number 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.920 of mechanical parts in it. There are kind of two approaches. 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:06.840 One kind of looked like a claw, if that makes sense, 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:08.719 and that would allow it to be able to open 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.480 a bunch of different sizes without having to use that 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:14.920 slighter function. But the issue we kind of ran into 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.680 with some of those prototypes is that it wasn't sort 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.199 of snappy and intuitive. If you looked at it, you 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:23.080 wouldn't know what you're looking at, and that was a 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.440 real big part of the design is making it just 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.640 super straightforward that you can look at it and pretty 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.360 much figure out how to use it without any instruction. 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.640 There's so little time to teach people about new things 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.280 when a new tool comes in kind of in these busy, 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.400 bustling environments that that's kind of what you want from 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.200 a tool that's going to do just this quick and 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:41.679 simple job. 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:43.840 Yeah, Because it literally looks like a bottle opener, so 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.719 instantly you have that recognition. You go, oh, I've got 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.400 a bottle here, This must go around the neck. And 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.320 then you've got the sort of the hidden compartment on 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.760 the bottom of it, which is for breaking the ample 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:55.560 as well. So I guess it's a bit of education 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.720 required so that people know to use that. You're sitting 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.480 in your lab as we talk here, you've got a 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.720 three D printer behind you. Was that useful? Do you 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:07.720 do a lot of iterations and design work and prototyping 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:08.920 using three D printing? 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.080 Yeah? So three D printing was a huge enabler for 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:17.200 this project. That and water jet cutting was another super 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.440 useful part in sort of smashing out these prototypes. I 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.360 tried to kind of reduce the amount of plastic that 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.280 I used where I could, so I tried to make 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.440 my prototypes I can kind of hot swap between the 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:32.480 different inserts to try the different geometries to see what 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.640 was kind of the best and most effective fit when 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:37.920 kind of figuring out some of the measurements. So yeah, 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:42.280 definitely super pivotal and being able to quickly run through ideas. 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:47.800 So design was only sort of part of the criteria 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.880 for winning this award. A big part of it was 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.680 the real world application and the potential for this to 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.800 actually go on and be used. It's all well and 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.959 good to design something that just never leaves the labor 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.320 with the prototyping stage, and we did see some sort 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.320 of designs like that. What are the next steps for you? 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:07.679 Is this something that you'd like to pursue potentially as 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.000 a business that the Snapcap try and get it out 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.520 there into hospitals and clinics around the world. 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.520 I would like to see it in people's hands and 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.120 just making their lives a little bit easier for those tasks. 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:19.960 So I'm able to put it a little bit of 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.480 time in to be able to work up the design 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.360 a little bit further. I've got some help from some 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:29.199 awesome people at a couple of the other hospitals around 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.439 the country been able to kind of cast the net 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.120 a little bit wider see how the same issues are 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.080 sort of getting received across those different sites. We're hoping 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.120 to be able to work it into something that we 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:43.760 can get into people's hands. 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.160 The judges we're talking about this, we sort of thought 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.240 this is great, and you submitted a video literally off 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.440 a nurse who was I think snapping an ampool who 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.440 actually cut herself. 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.320 It wasn't scripted, but we had to use that tape. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.800 Well, that illustrates it very well. But we were thinking, 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.960 why don't you just I mean, you need to break 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.720 the ampull, but in terms of taking the aluminum cap 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:09.640 off the bottle, why don't you just chuck it all 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.120 in a bin and automate that later. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.800 That was an idea that we kind of tossed around 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:18.880 at the start. But the kind of reality of kind 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:20.920 of this product is that it'd be all well and 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.800 good to make something real, awesome and automated, and I 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.880 actually going into this project that's kind of what I 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.079 was going to look to do. But then talking with 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.319 the people and like hearing about the issues and then 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.640 learning about the ampuel side of things, we've sort of 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.880 determined that while technically it could be considered a band 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.800 aid solution, it would be on the fastest track to 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.680 be able to have this issue kind of be sold. 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.120 That's what we loved about it, the simplicity of it. 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.280 I mean, presumably this, if you get this into production, 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.120 it wouldn't be a super expensive device to create either. 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.560 Yeah, we're hoping to well, we're working to get the 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.360 part count down as much as possible. Engineers in christ 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.120 Church I've had some great input on on clever ways 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:08.199 to really simplify that mechanism to even just three or 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:08.760 four parts. 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:09.440 Tops. 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:11.040 Where are you working at the moment? 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.440 So I'm working out of Wellington Regional Hospital, part of 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.360 the Futtow Water Improvement team based out of here, so 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.120 day to day I'm sort of looking at other issues, 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.800 but it's still we're able to work on some innovative 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:26.800 solutions sort of within the hospital, which is a really 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:28.120 exciting sort of opportunity. 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.480 Well, brilliant, you're in exactly the right place and they're 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:34.240 lucky to have this design brain on the team there. 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.000 So good luck for the next phase. And he's hoping 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.000 we see snapcap in hospital wards before too long. 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:48.160 Well hat fingers crossed, great young talent, Jack Pugh. Great 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.000 to have those kinds of people coming through New Zealand, 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.680 so big well done to him and look forward to 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.000 seeing what he does next. So that's innovation and health hardware, 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.440 and our topic of focus this week is AI in healthcare. 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.400 Doctor Will Reedy is one of the country's leading experts 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.480 in digital health. He joined Accentua around a year ago 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.040 and is still a practicing doctor one day a week 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:12.840 in the county's Monaco area. 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.840 He's a lot of experience helping with the rollout of 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.520 digital health systems all over the world, so he's pretty 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:24.200 well placed to compare and contrast our preparedness and progress 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.320 in the digital health space compared to the likes of Europe, 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.920 the US and Australia, where he's also worked. 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.520 Will's also really interested in the potential to reduce health 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.600 inequities using digital health tech, that is, if we can 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.720 trust machine learning and large language models to get it right. 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:44.920 So here's Ben's interview with Accentures doctor Will Reedy. 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:52.800 Good, Hey, Will, how are you great? Thanks? 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.000 Ben good, Welcome to the Business of Tech podcast. Thanks 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.440 for joining us. As so, why don't we start with 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.680 if you could just give us a very quick summary of. 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.320 Who you are, what you do, and a little bit 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:03.160 about your background. 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.280 So yeah, look, it's pleasure to be chatting with you 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.600 this morning. So I guess my full time job is 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.040 working for Accenture, is their how order health and wellness 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.200 lead here in New Zealand with the goal to help 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.880 the health system transform given some of the real challenges 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:19.720 that many of us aware of at the moment in 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.040 the health system. And then one day a week I 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.000 do a shift in the surgical services at Middlemore so 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.880 that can be in the emergency department and the clinics, 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.200 in the wards and sometimes in theater. So I guess 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.840 that keeps it real in terms of understanding the pulse 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.800 of the health system at the clinical front line. But 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.240 I guess ultimately the passion is to try and transform 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.960 health systems with technology and things like AI. 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:46.400 It must be quite start going from in Accenture talking 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.440 about the latest and greatest worldwide AI this, and then 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.440 you go into a hospital and very different story. 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:54.800 I'd imagine, Yeah, it is. 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.040 It's really interesting and it's generally accepted that in our 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.920 hospital system, not so much in our GP systems or 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.560 primary care systems. We are the least digitized hospitals now 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:06.959 in the developed world. So it is a little bit 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.399 of a change in terms of the global work that 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.879 I do and seeing what's going on in terms of 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.760 transformation and how far some other countries are ahead of us. 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.560 Also being quite digital my day job at Accenture and 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.080 then you know, having to use a pen and paper 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:23.160 on Fridays pretty much. 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:23.960 Yeah. 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.639 But also I guess conversely, that also just helps you 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.400 to understand the potential for change, right, and that actually 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.520 how far we can go when we start to implement 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:34.040 modern tech. 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.160 Yeah. I think it's easy to kind of look at 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.800 the I guess, the lower level of digitization and tech 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:44.000 enable transformation in the New Zealand health system today. But 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.240 it's also an opportunity, and my words are an opportunity 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.399 to kind of leap frog some of the approaches and 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.639 the thinking. So I do I'm quite optimistic about some 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:54.560 of those opportunities for New Zealand just to go, hey, 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.000 where are we trying to get to? What would we 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.080 do differently? Could we leap frog ahead of some of 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:00.000 the other jurisdictions. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:01.960 Yeah, it's interesting you use that term leap frog. That 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.000 seems to be kind of a relatively common New Zealand 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.359 experience where we kind of fall behind a little bit 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.399 and then we go, oh, let's catch up, and in 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.160 doing so we kind of go ahead and really hit 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.280 that cutting edge again. Is that kind of what you're 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:16.560 seeing happening at the moment? 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.919 I guess, I see the opportunity and it's really interesting 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.479 to share with you. It's funny how some of the 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:28.399 AI technologies are becoming quite pervasive in healthcare. And a 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.440 colleague of mine has been leading the way in gp 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.880 Land all it or primary care in driving the adoption 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.800 of a product called Nabler, which allows you, with the 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.080 permission of the patient, to record the voice around the 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.199 interaction with the patient and then convert that to text 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:46.840 and then put it into the GP system. And our 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.280 GPS I think about ranked about third in the world 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.600 in terms of their levels of digitization. And that's been 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.040 kind of the same kind of I guess measurement that's 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.239 been in place for about twenty years. So primary care 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.640 in New Zealand's actually been I guess at the forefront 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.600 of tech for some time. And then you know, what 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.400 he's seeing is first and foremost the patients and they're 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.080 farno who are in the room with him, are seeing 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.320 some benefits around more eye contact not turning around and 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.480 typing stuff in the computer and in terms of the 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:17.800 fifteen minute consult that is common in primary care. The 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.840 other side that he's finding really interesting is efficiencies within 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:24.040 the consult around typing everything down because we often paraphrase 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.520 what the family or the patients say to us given 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.640 the time limit. But what he's also finding, as our 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:32.320 colleagues across about one dred and one hundred and fifty 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.719 practices in New Zealand, is that the cognitive load, that 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.520 the mental load is a lot less because you're having 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.840 to recite and think things through. So piece of technology 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:47.040 came along relatively recently and it's been adopted in about 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.720 three hundred practices across New Zealand, which is about fifteen 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.600 percent of the GP practices. So it's really interesting around 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.640 that leap frog concept. Grab an idea and go with it. Yep. 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:57.639 It is an interesting idea and it is one that 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:02.000 has you know, it could have been earlier probably, but 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.240 the reality is is that the technology that we have 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.280 now around AI has just made it super accessible. 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:08.960 Are there other. 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.800 Areas that you're seeing that trend that the modern AI 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:13.720 tools that we have now in the last couple of 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.760 years have made things possible suddenly that would have seemed 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:19.040 really onerous in the past. 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.280 Yeah, look, it's interesting. I'll probably give some broader contexts. 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.719