1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,559 Speaker 1: Bit of an idea around councils and they're spending. Speaking 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: of democracy, Instead of a rate cap, how about a 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: referenda binding referendum votes would apply to projects over five 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: hundred dollars per rate payer or five percent of the 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: council spending. Nick Clark is the Secretary of Local Government 6 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: Business for them and as well us. Nick, good morning, 7 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: Good morning, Mike. It's a batty, ridiculous idea. You realize that, 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: don't you. 9 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 2: We don't think so. I mean, look, we you know, 10 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: we recognize fully that rates have gone up massively and 11 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 2: there's huge pressure. There's a lot of pressure to do 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: things like rates capping, which you know, I mean, as 13 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: a ratepayer, I love the idea of it. But when 14 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: we had a look at it rates capping, we did 15 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: see that internationally that there are some issues with are 16 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: including under investment in critical infrastructure, you know, deteriorating public services. 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 2: There's all sorts of definitional, definitional issues. What's what will 18 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 2: be used? Will it be to consumer price index that 19 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: we all care about it? Would it be local government 20 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: cost inflation which would be the base for a cap? 21 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: Would you factor in population growth? There's a whole lot 22 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: of things that would need to be worked through if 23 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 2: it's going to be done properly. And we thought, well, 24 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: let's put this add another idea into the mix that 25 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: the government can consider, and this would be giving ratepayers 26 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: a direct say in major spedding decisions on non essential projects. 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: Normally, i'd agree with you if you hadn't had the 28 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: by election in Auckland last week. The fact is that 29 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: no one will turn up and you'll get a winning 30 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: percentage fifty one percent of no one, which is no one. 31 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: And that's the problem, isn't it. And you've seen it 32 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: in places like California. 33 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that would certainly be a problem. That's why our 34 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 2: paper suggests there should be things like a perhaps a 35 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: turnout threshold and or maybe even a supermajority, particularly if 36 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: if it's a binary choice. You don't really want something 37 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: with fifty one to forty nine. There's huge amounts of 38 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 2: money at stake and on a twenty percent turnout, totally agree. 39 00:01:58,600 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: That's why you need some thresholds. 40 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: Problem with democracy, though, is you're allowing me to turn 41 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: out in democracies always right, and that's fantastic. But I'm 42 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: allowed to turn out knowing nothing about what I'm voting for, 43 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: Whereas you could argue experts and council do not what 44 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: you know. In other words, they know better than us. 45 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not so sure about that, given some of 46 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: the quality of decisions that have come out of councils 47 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: over the years. I do have a bit of faith 48 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 2: in democracy. I think it's the best form of government, 49 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: regardless of all the other types that have been tried. 50 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: And you know, I think, you know, obviously, if you 51 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: treat voters like adults, you know, they've pat's more likely 52 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: if you give them the right information, if you if 53 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: you really make an effort to engage with them and 54 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: they actually see that they that their vote can make 55 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 2: a difference. Like in the local elections, you know, you 56 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 2: get a bunch of people that you could vote for, 57 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: with most of them you don't even know who they are. 58 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: Some voting systems, they've got things like STV where you 59 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: have to rank thirty people. I mean, it's crazy to 60 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: be able to try and make inform sure And frankly, 61 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 2: a lot of people, a lot of voters and particularly 62 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: in the local government, think that their votes don't really 63 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 2: make much difference. But if you actually put some skin 64 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: in the game in terms of this is actually going 65 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 2: to make a difference, then maybe people will care a 66 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: bit more about local democracy. 67 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: You almost turn me Nick, Not quite but almost. Well 68 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: done well, argued Nick Clark, secretary of the Local Government 69 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: Business Forum. 70 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: For more from the My Asking Breakfast, listen live to 71 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 72 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.