1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,920 Speaker 1: And with us now is Nichola Willis the Finance Minister. 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: High Nikola Hi, Heather. 3 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 2: I listened to your interview with Chris Hipkins, and I'd 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 2: just like to point out to him page eight of 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: his own policy which he released today, which said that 6 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 2: commercial and residential properties will get an opening value on 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 2: valuation day. So his policy is already falling apart because 8 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 2: that is actually what it says, and he didn't know 9 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 2: that detail. He also said that if you sell a 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 2: commercial property, you won't pay CGT if you buy a 11 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: new one. Well, that's completely different from what the Tax 12 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: Working Group said, which means their costings have already fallen apart. 13 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: Right, OK, so that this is the rollover relief. So 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: are you saying that this means that Do you think 15 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: that they have in factored this into their own numbers? 16 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 2: No, I think that he's making it up as he 17 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 2: goes along. This is classical labor. This is half baked. 18 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: It's key. We build like it's Oh, look, he has 19 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 2: an extra tax. It will solve all the world's problems. Well, 20 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: because we Zeelanders are smart, you think so? 21 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: Do you think that they have largely lifted the Tax 22 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: Working Group's workings here, they've just nicked them and then 23 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: they lose money. 24 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 2: So based on their own statements today, they've based their 25 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: costings on the Tax Working Group proposal, and that proposal, 26 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: if you sold a property and received a gain on it, 27 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 2: you would pay a tax. What he said in your 28 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: interview was if you sold a commercial property, but you 29 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: then bought a new one, you wouldn't pay tax on 30 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: the previous sale. That's completely different from what the Tax 31 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 2: Working Group said. Now he's either mucked up because he 32 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: doesn't know his own policy, or his costings have already 33 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 2: fallen apart, and this is going to be even more 34 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: of a disaster than we'd already imagined. 35 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: So I was going to ask you the first question 36 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: I was going to be. I was going to ask you, 37 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: was how stoked to you that they've released a capital 38 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: gains tax policy to? I don't think I need to 39 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: I can hear it in your voice. 40 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: Well, look, here's the thing. We know that Labor for 41 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: years has been tempted by this forbidden fruit, which is, 42 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 2: let's just tax hard working people more. They love that, 43 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 2: but previous prime ministers under Labor have seen that that's 44 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: ultimately not a good idea, and today Chris Hipkins gave 45 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 2: into the temptation. He's dipped his hand into the forbidden 46 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: cookie jar. And we all know when you do that, 47 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 2: you don't stop at one cookie, do you? You keep going. 48 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 2: And he's already said today that he's not ruling out 49 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: additional taxes as part of Labour's broader fiscal plan. So 50 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 2: I'm just pleased that New Zealand today can see Labour's 51 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: alternative for what it is. It's a Labor to Party 52 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: Marty Greens government that will tax you more, drive the 53 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 2: country further into debt, and put the economy at risk. 54 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 2: And we have an alternative which is about building confidence, 55 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 2: backing those people with aspiration, backing savers and investors, and 56 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: ensuring we have a strong economy that benefits us. 57 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: Now has in New Zealand's news. You CEO spoken to 58 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: you yet about subsidizing the regional roots. 59 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: No, he hasn't, And I would characterize his comments as 60 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: more thinking loud than a formal proposal, And I would 61 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 2: expect that if your New Zealand were to make a 62 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,119 Speaker 2: proposal like that, it would be properly thought through. And 63 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 2: my first response would be, have you done everything you 64 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: can to get your own house in order commercially, and 65 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: I'm not convinced at the stage that they have. Do 66 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: you reckon? 67 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: They're just trying this on because they're going to have 68 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: to shut down some regional routes by the sounds of 69 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: things at some stage. And if they do that, then 70 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: they can blame you guys, because you didn't want to 71 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: subsidize it. Is that what's going on here? 72 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. Around the world, there are airlines 73 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: that are making pretty good profits right now in New 74 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: Zealand hasn't been. He made those comments off the back 75 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: of a really poor financial result, and so I guess 76 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: he's reaching for answers. Well, the answer isn't to take 77 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: money away from schools, hospitals and other essential public services. 78 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: The answer is for in New Zealand to deliver its 79 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: own commercial offering more efficiently and better. 80 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: Now, I saw last week the Social Media Band Bill 81 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: has been drawn out of the Biscuit Tin. So when 82 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: can we expect that to be law? 83 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 2: Well, it's been drawn out of the Biscuit tin, so 84 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 2: that means that it will go on the order paper 85 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 2: and on the members Days, which are every second Wednesday, 86 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 2: it'll eventually come up for first reading. Then it will 87 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 2: go off to a select committee for consideration and deliberation. 88 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: So you shouldn't expect it to be law anytime soon. 89 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: Why not prioritize it. 90 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: Well, what we're doing is two things. The first is 91 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 2: that members bill process, which I think will be constructive 92 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: and helpful. The other thing is that the government itself 93 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 2: is leading its own work in this area. Erica Stanford 94 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 2: is leading that work, and so I think there could 95 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 2: be an opportunity for the government to decide on its 96 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 2: own measures in this area. But I don't want to 97 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: take away from Catherine Wedd's bill. I think she's putting 98 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: an important issue on the table that there is a 99 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 2: discussion that the public want to have. I know plenty 100 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: of mum and dads are really worried about the harm 101 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 2: that results from kids being online all the time. But 102 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: how this comes together into a law is you know, 103 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: there's a bit of order to go under that bridge. 104 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: Okay, so is this something you might take to the election? 105 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: Look potentially, But as I say, there's a government minister 106 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: working on these issues right now. But this is a 107 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 2: priority area for national We've heard loud and clear from 108 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 2: mums and dads that they're worried about social media harm 109 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 2: and we do want to do what we can sensibly 110 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: to address it. 111 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: Okay, now you're not seriously considering shutting down glory of 112 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: l are you. 113 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: Well, No, what's happening is there's a group of ministers 114 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: who are responding to the fact that when the Royal 115 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: Commission did its inquiry into abuse and state care, they 116 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: specifically called out the issues of abuse at Gloria Vail 117 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: and pointed to the need for a coordinated approach to 118 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: that because obviously it's not just an issue for or 119 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 2: ung A Tamariki, it's also an issue for the Ministry 120 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 2: of Education, the Ministry for Social Development, a range of 121 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 2: government agencies. So those ministers are responding to that recommendation 122 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: by working together with the sole goal of preventing children 123 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: from being abused or being hearted. 124 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: Yes, and one of them said, they're not ruling out 125 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: shutting it down, but under what law could you possibly 126 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: shut it down? 127 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 2: Well, I think that there could be particular functions that, 128 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 2: if they don't meet the legal requirements, could stop, like schools, 129 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: for example. 130 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: But that doesn't shut a community down. You can still 131 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: homeschool the kids. 132 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, and so. 133 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: I think shut it down, can you. 134 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 2: Well, we can make sure that the laws of the 135 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: land are upheld and that requires being quite active, getting 136 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 2: in there and seeing what's really happening, working with the 137 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: leaders to ensure that kids there are safe. 138 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: Okay, Hey, thank you, Nicola, I appreciate it. Nichola Willis, 139 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: Finance Minister. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen 140 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 141 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.