1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Now the government is pushing ahead with the modern equivalent 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: of the Foreshore and Seabed legislation. The Marine and Coastal 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Area Bill, is expected to pass by the end of October. 4 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: It's going to override a Court of Appeal decision from 5 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago that made the test for 6 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: customary marine titles just simply too easy. Just as Minister 7 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: Paul Goldsmith as a man working on this and he's 8 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: with us, Hey, Paul, oh, hi, Heather, why are you 9 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: waiting till October? Why not just get it done now? 10 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: Well, we introduced legislation last year to overturn the Court 11 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: of Appeal and in essence, what we're trying to achieve 12 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: is a balance between the ability for MARI to claim 13 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: customary title while at the same time recognizing that everybody's 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: got an interest in what goes on in the coastline. 15 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 2: And so Parliament back in the John Key government set 16 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 2: a test, a high test which was had to show 17 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: undisturbed possessions since eighteen forty, went off to the courts 18 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: after about ten fifteen years, and the courts basically. 19 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: Undermined it well. 20 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 2: Didn't recognize the second clause very much, and so that's 21 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: why we brought the legislation, and you were a call 22 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 2: that we had it in the House. We went off 23 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 2: to Select Committee, and then the Supreme Court came out 24 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: and midway through the process and they overturned the Court 25 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: of Appeal. And so we've been reflecting as to whether 26 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: just to leave it there or to carry. 27 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: On with the leadership. Why did you decide to carry on? 28 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 2: Well, ultimately we want to go further than the Supreme Court. 29 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: The Supreme Court dealt with some of the issues that 30 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 2: we were concerned about, but not all, and we don't 31 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: feel like it went fair enough to get that balance right, 32 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 2: which is to say that yes, if there's a very 33 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: clear case, you can have customer marine title. What does 34 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 2: this mean for the average person, Well, it means people 35 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: who are emy that have customary marine title do have 36 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: the ability to basically block resource consents for a bunch 37 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: of things that can happen on the coastline. Nobody's affecting 38 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: people's ability to swim, fish and do a bunch of things. 39 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: But when it comes to new aquaculture, or when it 40 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: comes to renewing a consent for a private jetty, a 41 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: whole bunch of things would be affected, and that's why 42 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: we had the high test rather than one hundred percent 43 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: of the coastline. 44 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: So do you think this is going to blow up 45 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: into something it can to the Treaty Principle's Bill or 46 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: just you know quietly? 47 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: Well, look, time will tell. I mean, when we were 48 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 2: doing the legislation late last year, you know, there are 49 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: obviously people who feel strongly about it, but it was manageable. 50 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 2: And look, I think all we're trying to achieve is 51 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: restoring what Parliament thought was the balance back ten fifteen 52 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 2: years ago when we introduced this legislation, which is to say, yes, 53 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 2: you can go for customer marine title, but you know 54 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 2: there's a reasonable hurdle to get over and that's what 55 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: we're trying to establish. 56 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and do you think it's going to revive this 57 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: debate about committee again? 58 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: No, Well that's in terms of yes, it's very rare 59 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 2: for Parliament to overturn and decisions by the Court of 60 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 2: Appeal and Supreme Court. We don't do it often and 61 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 2: we've thought about it very carefully. But our view is 62 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 2: that the interpretation is viewed sufficiently far from what Parliament 63 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 2: intended that we need to make. 64 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: This move Okay, Now, what did you think about what 65 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: I said about netball and trash TV. 66 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: Well, one person's trash is another's treasure. I suppose you don't. 67 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: Do you like celebrity treasure Island. 68 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: I'm not saying that. I just not. No, I don't 69 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: watch it, and that's fair enough, and that's fine. But 70 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: some people do and look New Zealand on air. The 71 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: purpose of it is for New Zealanders to see New 72 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: Zealand on air. 73 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: New Zealanders on air. It's you don't have to No, 74 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: it's twenty twenty five. Why don't I tell you what? 75 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: Why don't you also start funding New Zealand to send 76 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: telegraph messages to each other? And it's old technology. We'll 77 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: use our phones. Let's just give up on it. 78 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: Some do, some don't know. It's still a lot of 79 00:03:59,120 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: people watch. 80 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: The kind of kind of government we're running now, A 81 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: little bit of cashy, a little. 82 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: Bit of grant rob do you know. No, it's been 83 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 2: for the last thirty years New Zealand on Air has 84 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 2: been helping fund New Zealand. Material doesn't mean it doesn't 85 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 2: it doesn't worry. It's not a concern whether they watch 86 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 2: it on a TV screen or on their phone or 87 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: on their laptop, on a computer or whatever. 88 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: It does a shite job, doesn't it. I mean, what 89 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: has it funded that's commercially successful? Look, look it, over 90 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: look it over at Australia. They're funding Bluey. The thing 91 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 1: is absolutely going gang dusters around the world. What's New 92 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: Zealand on Air got that's going gang dusters around the world. 93 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: Well, there's there's been quite a few things that have 94 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: been reasonably successful times. You're right, that's it's a reasonable challenge. 95 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 2: Well after the Party and a few things like that 96 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 2: went pretty well. But my very clear message to them 97 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: has been there was a tendency, you know, in recent 98 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: times to focus very much on niche audiences and my 99 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: direction as minister, you know, I've got reasonably hands off 100 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,799 Speaker 2: because the legislation is quite strong, but I can send 101 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 2: a letter of intentions and my focus is that you 102 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 2: know that they fund things that people want to watch 103 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: and that it was of broad interest in New Zealanders 104 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: and yep, everybody can you know, you can watch Netflix 105 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 2: and Apple and you know there's no shortage of the entertainment. 106 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 2: But the purpose of New Zealand on the Air is 107 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: just to help ensure that for those who want to 108 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 2: there is at least some local material being hit. 109 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: You help the Goldsmith this. 110 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: You keep watching. I'm glad that you're on our case because. 111 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: Watching you not not the TV content that they're funding, 112 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: which is a problem. Listen, thank you, I always appreciate you. 113 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: Let's pull Goldsmith the Justice Minister. For more from Heather 114 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to news Talks. 115 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 116 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio.