Speaker 1: Live from the Export Beer Garden Studios. You're listening to
Speaker 1: the b YC. And the unthinkable has happened, a three
Speaker 1: new whitewash of India.
Speaker 2: In India, it is an.
Speaker 1: Unfathomable result, particularly given the black Caps form going into
Speaker 1: the series. In our wildest dreams, we may have thought
Speaker 1: that perhaps the black Caps could steal a Test match
Speaker 1: when a favorable toss, have what go our way and
Speaker 1: catch the Indians on the hop. But to win all
Speaker 1: three tests, and more importantly, to dominate all three tests,
Speaker 1: seemed well outside the realms of possibility. But here we
Speaker 1: are reveling in the glow of New Zealand's greatest ever
Speaker 1: Test series victory. So let's discuss And Dylan, you said
Speaker 1: at the end of the last podcast, now I want
Speaker 1: three zapp and I was like, oh, I just had
Speaker 1: a feeling, fellas that all the rage of India would
Speaker 1: be unleashed on and that third Test. But for me,
Speaker 1: it just proves that we got under their skin and
Speaker 1: we had their measure.
Speaker 3: I felt it proved that we had exquisitely formulated plans
Speaker 3: that we executed really efficiently. Yes, I think you nailed
Speaker 3: it in that intro New Zealand outplayed India, but there
Speaker 3: was there might have been a random element to that
Speaker 3: first Test, sure, but still India won the toss. Was
Speaker 3: like New Zealand won the toss and decided to take
Speaker 3: first use of those conditions. But in Pune and Mumbai
Speaker 3: with tracks specifically catering to Ashwin and Jadasia, New Zealand
Speaker 3: had better plans and played them better. It was immense.
Speaker 3: I cannot give steared Latham. I presume Southeast still part
Speaker 3: of that leadership firm, probably even came Williamson from home
Speaker 3: knowing him. Cannot give them enough credit for what they
Speaker 3: came up with.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, when we were considering their form Paul forward,
Speaker 1: it's just such an extraordinary turn a turnaround from what
Speaker 1: they came from. And I, you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: anyone out there that could ever have protected this result.
Speaker 1: It has just blown everyone's mind and it is our
Speaker 1: greatest Test Areas victory. But we did dominate them, and
Speaker 1: even with that one forty seven guys in the final innings,
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 4: We beat them every single way. You could beat them
Speaker 4: out better than we out bowled them. We outspun them,
Speaker 4: We outpaced them, we out caught them, and it was
Speaker 4: just so utterly comprehensive it was. It was staggering, and
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, I actually felt quite emotional when we
Speaker 4: won the third one. I just couldn't believe it. It
Speaker 4: was my birthday and I just wanted something good for
Speaker 4: my birthday. The Phoenix lost, and then I went like,
Speaker 4: the cricket has just blowing my mind. It was just
Speaker 4: three extraordinary winds over consecutive weeks, and each one more
Speaker 4: incredible than the one before. And I mean last week, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, you just referenced to there with Dylan said,
Speaker 4: God would be good to win three nil. But I
Speaker 4: just have this feeling of dread and I just don't
Speaker 4: think that we're going to be able to do it.
Speaker 4: But if we do, shit, it'll be amazing. And here
Speaker 4: we are, so last week we think we're having a
Speaker 4: discussion about whether that second Test win and the series
Speaker 4: win was our greatest Test series win in the history
Speaker 4: of cricket. And now this week, this series three, Niel
Speaker 4: black Cat Blackwashing is being called out as the biggest
Speaker 4: upset in Test cricket history, bar every team, bar none.
Speaker 4: It's just it's unfavorable. It just blows my mind and
Speaker 4: I do hope that it stops. It won't, but I
Speaker 4: just kind of hope we can't keep saying we're punching
Speaker 4: above our weight. Once you've beat in India three nil
Speaker 4: in India, yeah you're kind of you're boxing in the
Speaker 4: right waight division heavyweights now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, the Phoenix got a hiding. What
Speaker 1: struck me, Dylan was that it was a comprehensive team performance.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: And yes, you had outstanding contributions from your Sanna's the
Speaker 1: age as et cetera, et cetera. But the Batsman, for example,
Speaker 1: made contributions. You know, there were no hundreds, but really
Speaker 1: significant contributions. So let's focus on the on the batting
Speaker 1: side of things.
Speaker 2: First.
Speaker 1: We spoke to Gary Stead yesterday and I said to him, Gary,
Speaker 1: you know who I'm most stoked for Will Young because
Speaker 1: I've really felt for the guy and he's been an
Speaker 1: example of perseverance in terms of hanging in there, hanging
Speaker 1: in there, and I was so stoked for him.
Speaker 2: He had a great series.
Speaker 3: What a Gary see?
Speaker 1: He said, yeah, he's he agreed, and that he said
Speaker 1: that you know, he's a good player. And he's been
Speaker 1: given an opportunity and he's taken it, and we were
Speaker 1: delighted for him.
Speaker 3: And he might be carrying the drinks in the next yest.
Speaker 3: But exactly exactly, we'll get to that point. But the
Speaker 3: thing about contributions is really interesting because you can get
Speaker 3: contributions and bunches and you can win a test. But
Speaker 3: what I thought was particularly unique to the series was
Speaker 3: that not many Black Caps had what you'd call a
Speaker 3: consistently great series. Like Will Young was very consistent. Sure,
Speaker 3: AJS was great in one test, Sata was great one test,
Speaker 3: Henry was great in one test. But what happened was
Speaker 3: they were phenomenally well timed. Yes, when guys did stand up,
Speaker 3: they really stood it. And the guy that probably had
Speaker 3: the toughest series of all, Tom Blundell. You know that
Speaker 3: number six spots just a dead spot for New Zealand
Speaker 3: at the moment. He still managed out of that debris
Speaker 3: to score a vital forty one in the second dig
Speaker 3: and Pune and kept like a god on that last
Speaker 3: day when at one Kadie, which was incredibly difficult, the
Speaker 3: catch he took off the reverse swegk Oh that was
Speaker 3: ridiculous Ashwood was just it was fantastic work. So yeah,
Speaker 3: contributions were key up and down the audito. You look
Speaker 3: at Mitchell struggled a bit in the series hugely vital
Speaker 3: weighty two that partnership him and Will Young put together
Speaker 3: on that first day at one KDE when it just
Speaker 3: looked like oven like conditions of pressing conditions amazing. Glen
Speaker 3: Phillips at number seven didn't have an amazing series with
Speaker 3: the bat but scored a vital forty eight night out.
Speaker 3: I think it was had a Benglaro who and then
Speaker 3: he smote a few sixers with the tail and another
Speaker 3: innings that kind of pushed New Zealand from a struggling
Speaker 3: position to a good position. Sowdy gets his sixty five
Speaker 3: yes at Bengalaru who he had row it on toast
Speaker 3: for the first couple of innings that he bowled, but
Speaker 3: again didn't have a great series. Yes, it was just
Speaker 3: it was just, you know, these amazingly well timed interventions
Speaker 3: from everyone in that batting order.
Speaker 1: And that's not forgetting Latham's eighty odd great New Zealand
Speaker 1: innings of all time.
Speaker 3: Comway, a couple of chipping in a cup of time.
Speaker 1: Yes, just on that catch with was at Ashwyn, that
Speaker 1: incredible catch by Blundele. But I don't know if you
Speaker 1: both went, oh god, because we'd used up our what
Speaker 1: do you call them reviews, reviews and the last one
Speaker 1: was an absolute shocker. That was a great decision by
Speaker 1: the humpire. That was I thank god he made that call.
Speaker 1: Your thoughts on everyone contributing, Paul Forward, Yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Mean, I guess in the aftermath of the series, it's
Speaker 4: it's just sort of searching for answers about how it happened,
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's almost unexplainable. And yeah, that the
Speaker 4: multiple contributions is the first thing that comes to mind.
Speaker 4: I think the wake up call that came in Sri Lanka,
Speaker 4: you know, and maybe that would have come we might
Speaker 4: have got a fright against Afghanistan, you know, the game
Speaker 4: that never got played, that miserable week spent in Great Annoider,
Speaker 4: And yeah, the Sri Lankan series maybe was the thing
Speaker 4: that we needed to push ourselves into action. But it
Speaker 4: did feel like India were at sea. New Zealand were
Speaker 4: absolutely clinical, Route was adaptive, flexible. It felt like we
Speaker 4: were like the sleeper cell that India just completely underestimated,
Speaker 4: thought they were going to kick our ass, if not
Speaker 4: in the first Test, then definitely in the second and
Speaker 4: the third. It really shows that the team culture in
Speaker 4: that Black Cats unit is so so strong. You know
Speaker 4: that they should have been broken going into that series,
Speaker 4: given the fact that you know, any number of data points,
Speaker 4: tea twenty Cricket World Cup, shit, our wash out in Afghanistan,
Speaker 4: pasted in Sri Lanka, captain's gone best, batsman's out, injuries
Speaker 4: to Matt Henry, injuries to Santana. India is a fortress.
Speaker 4: Players are out of form. Conservative coach and you know,
Speaker 4: I wanted to touch on this just briefly. We've been
Speaker 4: we've been very critical of some of the selections and
Speaker 4: the dogma and the conservative nature of this Black Cats
Speaker 4: team over recent months, recent series, prior to this one.
Speaker 3: Probably eight months to two years really, but.
Speaker 4: And you know, they they were still pretty conservative with
Speaker 4: their selections, but shit, they were not with their tactics.
Speaker 4: They played in a completely different way. You know, they
Speaker 4: played with freedom, They were very deliberate about attacking the spinners,
Speaker 4: and you know, when selections were forced to the guys
Speaker 4: that came and performed magnificently. And I guess you know,
Speaker 4: in that sense we've touched on that Young coming in
Speaker 4: for Williamson. I mean, Santana coming in basically because Bracewel
Speaker 4: went home, you know, and then you know Ajs stepping
Speaker 4: up when Santon was out the following week. Just just
Speaker 4: a bunch of extraordinary circumstances. Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of Ages, he likes Mumbai, doesn't he. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what was that twenty how many wickets?
Speaker 2: Twenty five?
Speaker 3: I've read something that there's no foreign bowler has taken
Speaker 3: as many wickets at one KDI Stadium as Ages.
Speaker 4: Yes, it was Ian, both of them, I think before. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: it was Ian both.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: So it's amazing. I mean, guys, when you look at
Speaker 3: this as a whole, I know you will pull but
Speaker 3: a favorite statistic from the series.
Speaker 4: I've got a kind one and and a mean one.
Speaker 4: The kind one is in mineer obvious, ye know. The
Speaker 4: kind one is that it's the first time we've ever
Speaker 4: won three matches in a Test series. The mean one
Speaker 4: is the fact that it's the first instance of India
Speaker 4: being whitewashed at home in a three match series. So
Speaker 4: so good. And just to balance that, out just so
Speaker 4: that they don't feel too bad. We have also lost
Speaker 4: two series three mil at home, one to England in
Speaker 4: the sixties and one to Australia in two thousands, which
Speaker 4: was very painful, very painful. Few weeks an you'll leave
Speaker 4: for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've spoken about well, Young but I want to
Speaker 1: go to some correspondence here.
Speaker 3: Can I just give you one step?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: Do will Young faced four hundred and sixty bulls in
Speaker 3: this series? Colie and Sharma between them face three hundred
Speaker 3: and six.
Speaker 4: And average fifteen collectively fifteen.
Speaker 1: Jeez, I tell you what bluddy India is. We will
Speaker 1: be panicking, won't they? And mate, do you think, just
Speaker 1: very briefly, there was an element of them looking over
Speaker 1: to Australia and forgetting that there was they were playing
Speaker 1: a test series here?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? I think also that they've been a new coach,
Speaker 3: which dot I don't think is universally adored in that
Speaker 3: changing room. Yes, and also maybe they are going through
Speaker 3: some of the pains that we've been through for the
Speaker 3: past eighteen months with a golden generation of players. And
Speaker 3: let's basic Kohali Sharma, Jadeja at Eshwyn a Gods of
Speaker 3: cricket in India. They're all getting slightly long in the
Speaker 3: tooth now and may have taken their r off the
Speaker 3: ball a little bit.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think as well that if you're a team with
Speaker 4: the batting talent of India and the spin bowling talent
Speaker 4: of India, you bring the teams together, you bring weaker
Speaker 4: teams on paper closer to you by putting us on
Speaker 4: spinning tracks because you don't have to be an amazing
Speaker 4: spinner to spin the ball on those tracks. And you know,
Speaker 4: you have to show application with your batting and all
Speaker 4: of that, all of that kind of stuff. But if
Speaker 4: your batsmen are not up to scratch out of form,
Speaker 4: as you say, getting a bit long in the tooth,
Speaker 4: and then you're young players who are really really good,
Speaker 4: but let's be honest, they're not betting like Rale Dravd,
Speaker 4: you know Rahana. Those guys just really kind of digging
Speaker 4: in and just settling in to bat for you know,
Speaker 4: seven sessions. Yeah, that really that The way that India
Speaker 4: attempted to screw the scrum in their favor played into
Speaker 4: New Zealand tens magnificently in this series.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm loving this bit of correspondence that we
Speaker 1: got because I was asking myself a similar question going,
Speaker 1: you know, regarding Will Young and AGEZ and Simon of
Speaker 1: CD rights watch well, age Azz are well and age
Speaker 1: Azz what watch well and age as will be dropped
Speaker 1: for the next test Canterbury beebs. It's good to have
Speaker 1: something to ground yourself in these heating times. But imagine
Speaker 1: Will betting at number five, feasting on spin and I
Speaker 1: you know, because it was actually my wife that said
Speaker 1: to me. She said, oh, so what happens when Williamson
Speaker 1: comes back? And I was like, it's going to happen
Speaker 1: again to Will Young, isn't it. He's going to be ditched.
Speaker 3: I think he will be, Yeah, because in christ Church
Speaker 3: it's just not the New Zealand way to go on
Speaker 3: with just three seemers, even though when it's normally green
Speaker 3: conditions down there, you would have thought three seemers could
Speaker 3: get the job done. Darryl Mitchell can be that kind
Speaker 3: of surrogate for I just forget that Glenn Phillips is
Speaker 3: you're one and only spinner, and then you could maybe
Speaker 3: find a spot for Will Young. But Latham's not going anywhere.
Speaker 3: He's Captain Conway's back and form Williamson's got number three.
Speaker 3: You have to have a spot in the middle order
Speaker 3: for Ratchen and Darryl Mitchell. You have to have a
Speaker 3: worker keeper. Doesn't matter if it's Bundle or Mitchell. Hey,
Speaker 3: but they've got to play. So unless they do something
Speaker 3: incredibly radical and say to Tom Latham you've got the
Speaker 3: gloves now, mate, it's a good place to captain aside
Speaker 3: from as wicket keeper, and then have to look for
Speaker 3: an opener, which would be will Young even though it's
Speaker 3: not Averages twenty two is an opener unless they get
Speaker 3: really funky. I think he is going to miss out
Speaker 3: and christ Church.
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable when you consider that, isn't it. It's unbelievable,
Speaker 1: and it's just it's just a reflection of his career really,
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's very difficult, Budgie. We've also got ratching
Speaker 1: for a bit of spin as well, of course. Yep,
Speaker 1: and I thought he was actually he was underbold in
Speaker 1: that series, but there you go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I've already accounted for the fact they won't
Speaker 3: carry a Santa on AJZ in christ Hitch, and I
Speaker 3: still can't squeeze them in elegantly.
Speaker 4: I can't squeez them in elegantly. But yeah, I agree
Speaker 4: with your Latham Kamai, Williamson, Revender, Young Mitchell, but I
Speaker 4: think I can't see them getting rid of blunder either.
Speaker 4: And then if you're seem as a Sauthi, Henry and O'Rourke,
Speaker 4: you've got you could do a Phillips or a Center
Speaker 4: or a bracelet and not have that fourth cema, because
Speaker 4: who is the fourth sema. It's not James and he's injured.
Speaker 4: It's not sea As he's injured. You know, it's Duffy
Speaker 4: another right arm, or it's Google Line, it's Techno, or
Speaker 4: it's Nathan Smith. I don't know. I think that maybe
Speaker 4: they'll do a Phillips or a Santna or a Bracewoll,
Speaker 4: and they will get young in there. I can see
Speaker 4: away it.
Speaker 3: It'll be Phillips, won't they. They're not going to drop
Speaker 3: Phillips for a Bracewill or a Santner, are they?
Speaker 4: Surely?
Speaker 6: Though? So?
Speaker 2: Mmmm, fascinating stuff, Fellas.
Speaker 1: What about some other great upsets and test cricket history,
Speaker 1: Paul Ford, this is your sort of zone. You'll be
Speaker 1: all over this. In fact you are. You've written my
Speaker 1: one for me, I am all over it.
Speaker 4: But I just want to say I have thought about
Speaker 4: this and I don't think that my nomination beats what
Speaker 4: New Zealand have achieved over the last few weeks. But
Speaker 4: on paper, when New Zealand beat the West Indies in
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty, that was an incredible, incredible victory if you
Speaker 4: don't look too deep into the circumstances surrounding. You know,
Speaker 4: and and you know. The case in point is that
Speaker 4: Playing with Fire and Babylon, the magnificent film about the right,
Speaker 4: the documenting the greatness of the West Indies coming together
Speaker 4: in the nineteen seventies under Clive Lloyd and the soundtrack
Speaker 4: of Bob Marley and all the magnificent things they did
Speaker 4: to bring the West Indies together. The nineteen eighty series
Speaker 4: Against zeal And got kind of left out of that
Speaker 4: documentary because it very very much did not fit the narrative. A.
Speaker 4: They lost, b they carried on like pork chops and
Speaker 4: see some of the umpiring was probably not going to
Speaker 4: be It was probably more fit for comedy than documentary.
Speaker 4: But yeah, like that West Indies team that came over here,
Speaker 4: they'd just all been rock stars in the world series.
Speaker 4: They've beaten Australia in a series, and then yes, of
Speaker 4: course they came over here and we all know what
Speaker 4: happened with Richard Headley getting was at seven lbw's and
Speaker 4: Fred Goodall and all the carrying on with Colin Croft
Speaker 4: and all that kind of stuff. Western is deliberately misfielding
Speaker 4: balls and dropping catchers and just wanting to go home.
Speaker 4: I love the comment from Fred Goodall where he said,
Speaker 4: I'm not sure what they got so angry about. I'd
Speaker 4: umpired county games in England. I wasn't a professional. I
Speaker 4: was a school teacher. I mean, I don't think that
Speaker 4: made anybody feel better.
Speaker 3: No Iver a series that certainly can be accused of
Speaker 3: recency bias here, but I loved that series. In twenty
Speaker 3: twenty one when India beat Australia in Australia, oh that
Speaker 3: was great. After Tim Payne said wait till we get
Speaker 3: you to the gabba mate, and they got to the
Speaker 3: Gabba and India won that test to win that. This
Speaker 3: was the series. They were all out for thirty something
Speaker 3: in Atelaide, thirty six years thirty six they won in
Speaker 3: Melbourne and Tim Payne was giving it all this and
Speaker 3: telling ash when none of his teammates liked him. And
Speaker 3: it's probably true that smashed them at the Gabba and
Speaker 3: they got up there. And it wasn't just the fact
Speaker 3: that India beat Australia at the Gabba. They beat them
Speaker 3: without Kohli, without Jadesia, without Ashwin, without Boomera, and without Chami.
Speaker 3: Their bowling attack for that Test was Washington Sunda. Yes,
Speaker 3: it was only on that tour as a development player
Speaker 3: because he was seen as a sort of T twenty guy.
Speaker 3: Only a guy called Shad Or the ker Lord, Chardle
Speaker 3: Nev Deep Signe, Mohammad Sharaz saraj who was really only
Speaker 3: a kind of novice back then, and some guy called
Speaker 3: Finger Rahu Netarajan who I can barely remember. So that
Speaker 3: was a magnificent day.
Speaker 1: I remember that Test match very well because because of
Speaker 1: the massive injuries that the Indians had in the situation,
Speaker 1: no one gave him a chance and hall of winning
Speaker 1: that Test match, and neither did I quite frankly, and
Speaker 1: I remember didn't Pant.
Speaker 3: Had a Pant and Gil who had both got there
Speaker 3: were kids, yes, they kind of one pink Gil got
Speaker 3: ninety ninety odd and I think Pink got eighty nine.
Speaker 3: Not out about you, Jason.
Speaker 1: West Cindy's beat England and England in nineteen forty two.
Speaker 1: I was just a little fella at that stage, with
Speaker 1: the team containing a young Gary Sobers and led by
Speaker 1: Jamaican Michael Manley.
Speaker 3: No I don't remember that, No, neither.
Speaker 4: In the middle of the war, was it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you son of a bitch kept them by
Speaker 3: the Jamaican Prime Minister.
Speaker 1: Well, at least I knew it was a setup because
Speaker 1: you wrote it for me. So all right, let's look
Speaker 1: at the ramifications then, because three Test wins in terms
Speaker 1: of the World Test Championship and when we're done and dusted.
Speaker 2: It's brought us back into the race a little bit.
Speaker 3: Dylan, Yeah, look, I still think it's a bit of
Speaker 3: a long shot. But the first thing that we can
Speaker 3: control the controllables, as Gary Stead will be saying probably
Speaker 3: about seventeen times in the lead up to the first
Speaker 3: Test against England, but we can control the controllables by
Speaker 3: beating England in the series, and that at the very
Speaker 3: least would mean that there's five teams in Australia, India,
Speaker 3: South Africa, Sri Lanka, Australia's in pole position and they've
Speaker 3: got a home series against India and an away series
Speaker 3: against Sri Lanka. They should couple enough points to be
Speaker 3: one of the two teams. I think India are going
Speaker 3: to struggle. I think they've only from memory, They've only
Speaker 3: got the series against Australia and obviously they are not
Speaker 3: gain feeling great about themselves. South Africa is the one though.
Speaker 3: They've got two Test series against Sri Lanka and Pakistan
Speaker 3: at home. I can see them winning all four of
Speaker 3: them and I think that would be it. Is that right, Paul?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean I had a
Speaker 4: there's so many permutations. There's some dangerously complicated maths, but
Speaker 4: the guts of it. Some nerd did a calculation. Australia
Speaker 4: are eighty six percent chance of making the final, So
Speaker 4: Africa sixty four percent, New Zealand thirty three percent, Sri
Speaker 4: Lanka nine percent. That's kind of factoring in every possible permutation.
Speaker 3: So sounds about right, yeap.
Speaker 4: What would really suck is if South Africa make that final.
Speaker 4: And I can tell you why, after what they did
Speaker 4: when they sent their shitty team down here and we
Speaker 4: gave them a hiding. It would really suck if that
Speaker 4: became an acceptable method for They still managed to qualify
Speaker 4: for the final. So whilst it would be nice for
Speaker 4: a team that's not one of the big three, I'll
Speaker 4: still find it quite annoying if so that every can
Speaker 4: make that final. But something cool about the World Test Championship.
Speaker 4: We're going to be watching test matches like South Africa
Speaker 4: versus Pakistan and Sri Lanka versus Australia and Gaul with
Speaker 4: a huge amount of intensity, much more than usual, just
Speaker 4: to see what the ramifications are for New Zealand. So
Speaker 4: and if I guess it shows test cricket with context
Speaker 4: is a good thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And if you flip that scenario, that need of
Speaker 3: scenario on its head, wouldn't it be so great of
Speaker 3: South Africa just missed out by a couple of percentage points,
Speaker 3: knowing that if they had sent their A team to
Speaker 3: New Zealand they would have had a different story chance
Speaker 3: of making the final.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, that would be delicious, fantastic.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take a quick break when we
Speaker 1: come back, talk about the black Caps in Tri Lanka
Speaker 1: fellas minus heyt.
Speaker 3: Though maybe guess you've got a meeting.
Speaker 1: I've got a meeting and so we've got a very
Speaker 1: special treat in this podcast, which made us run a
Speaker 1: little bit later than normal, which the Fellers will reveal
Speaker 1: a little bit later on in the Poddy.
Speaker 4: All right boys, your bals OKJS? Just checking or is
Speaker 4: it a meeting?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 1: I had some cost coss last night and I'm not
Speaker 1: sure that it was I think it had expired maybe
Speaker 1: so no, my checking round great, did.
Speaker 4: Have shredded chicken and mixed in with it?
Speaker 1: No, it was a bit of salmon with a miso
Speaker 1: glaze actually, and roasted vegetables.
Speaker 2: But there you go, good stuff. Thanks for listen. We'll
Speaker 2: be back shortly.
Speaker 1: We're thrilled to have with us one of cricket's fiercest,
Speaker 1: most relentless bowlers, Neil Wagner, join us for a chat.
Speaker 1: Known for his aggressive onfield persona and two hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty hard earned wickets and sixty four Tests, Neil bowled
Speaker 1: thirteen thousand, seven hundred and twenty five balls and Test
Speaker 1: cricket for New Zealand since his debut and Antigua in
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. He's been a massive lion hearted, beautifully coy charismatic,
Speaker 1: admirable and hugely entertaining presence on the kiwie cricket scene
Speaker 1: since washing up on our shores from Pretoria earlier this century.
Speaker 1: Feared by batsman worldwide for his skill and passion, he's
Speaker 1: been a bloody inspiration to battler's all over this great nation.
Speaker 1: Neil Wagner, Welcome to the byc.
Speaker 6: Mate, Thanks guys, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: Absolute pleasure.
Speaker 3: And yeah, why'd you write a book?
Speaker 6: Good question. I was very against it.
Speaker 5: I didn't want to do it, to be honest, at
Speaker 5: the start. The rider kept haunting andnouning me for quite
Speaker 5: some time.
Speaker 6: I said, nah, nah, I don't want to do it
Speaker 6: for about a year and a half.
Speaker 5: And then after retirement, sitting back, I guess reflecting a
Speaker 5: bit about your career in life and a few bits
Speaker 5: and pieces, and yeah, a couple of whiskeys deep on
Speaker 5: the deck of my wife, she sort of inspired me
Speaker 5: and said, hey, I think you should do it. I
Speaker 5: wrung the writer up and said, hey, James, that's rather
Speaker 5: bloody book mate, and put it on and paper now
Speaker 5: because I've probably changed my mind.
Speaker 6: In the morning.
Speaker 5: So so yeah, it wasn't easy, but I sort of thought,
Speaker 5: you know, there's a bit of a story to tell
Speaker 5: and some people might like it, some people might not.
Speaker 5: But I sort of thought, you know, if I can
Speaker 5: make a difference in someone's life, then even if it's
Speaker 5: just one person, I'll be bloody stokes so worth a
Speaker 5: crackly well.
Speaker 3: On that subject. I mean, what were the hardest bits
Speaker 3: for you to dig into? And is there a sort
Speaker 3: of do you ever feel guilty about digging into those?
Speaker 3: I guess very personal parts of your life that other
Speaker 3: people would have been unaware of.
Speaker 6: Not till recently.
Speaker 5: Spoken to some of my closest mates or cane to
Speaker 5: and trains around some of the stuff I went through.
Speaker 5: You know, it wasn't until probably very recent but once
Speaker 5: once I said it, you sort of feel a little
Speaker 5: bit shitty and bad, and it's sort of like, ah,
Speaker 5: it was better often and I just get it to
Speaker 5: myself and I was the only one who knew about it.
Speaker 5: But then after a week or two, you know the
Speaker 5: support you gives and you actually feel better for it.
Speaker 5: I shed open to a massive group of his young
Speaker 5: cricketers which we had a meeting to give in christ
Speaker 5: it and sort of told them briefly about it and
Speaker 5: seeing the response and that I sort of looked at
Speaker 5: it when she's lighter, and I do this back in
Speaker 5: twenty twelve, like you know, and Mike Sandel was a
Speaker 5: huge driver around a problem shed his problem halved, and
Speaker 5: it was definitely that once I sort of felt like
Speaker 5: sharing those I guess insecurities and few things that you
Speaker 5: had and mental sort of battles mental health issues and
Speaker 5: sort of felt easier to talk about it. And then
Speaker 5: obviously the retirement part was something that was pretty tough
Speaker 5: to talk about and pretty tough to put in writing.
Speaker 5: But there was a lot of speculation and there's a
Speaker 5: lot of talk around it, and people have their own
Speaker 5: sort of I guess, you know, made up version or forden.
Speaker 6: It started agin coming.
Speaker 5: Hard when you go out play around a goal for
Speaker 5: around and sort of doing at a restaurant and someone
Speaker 5: sort of asked something or said something and their own
Speaker 5: perception was sort of quite tough to deal with, and
Speaker 5: I sort of felt like for my own personal sort
Speaker 5: of going out well being you know, I sort of
Speaker 5: felt fit out there and I kind of wanted it
Speaker 5: from the start, and everyone knows the truth and what happened.
Speaker 5: Then I feel more happy about it, so I thought
Speaker 5: it's a way to go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and just to clarify, just for our listeners who
Speaker 3: might not have read the book yet, when you're talking
Speaker 3: about those mental health battles, you're talking about the trip
Speaker 3: to shrit anchor Eity and your create and when you
Speaker 3: had a really tough time, you found yourself in an
Speaker 3: incredibly dark place. And I mean, I guess you can
Speaker 3: tell the story now, but there was a lot going
Speaker 3: on in your mind that wasn't good.
Speaker 5: Yeah. To be honest, the team was a pretty tough
Speaker 5: place at the time. There was a lot going on,
Speaker 5: coaches going on out the environment was a little bit
Speaker 5: more selfish, a little bit more yet to look after
Speaker 5: your own backyard, and it was tough building relationships and friendships.
Speaker 6: And like I said, I talk about in the book,
Speaker 6: you know, the way I came and.
Speaker 5: Brought up in South Africa was being quite hard and
Speaker 5: aggressive on the field and quite verbal.
Speaker 6: And that's how I started out over here.
Speaker 5: And a lot of the guys I you know, played
Speaker 5: against them, sort of take a liking of that, and
Speaker 5: all of a sudden you find being in the same
Speaker 5: change room and it's not.
Speaker 6: The sort of key we way.
Speaker 5: I think it took a long long time for people
Speaker 5: to get to know you, and at the start I
Speaker 5: reckon I probably try too hard to fit in and
Speaker 5: wanting to, I guess, show the true side of me.
Speaker 6: And it was quite frustrating at the time. But you know,
Speaker 6: when you're in a.
Speaker 5: Deep dark hole and you don't really feel good, when
Speaker 5: a little conversation happened and you get there and people
Speaker 5: stopped talking which was not about you, you automatically think,
Speaker 5: oh gosh, it's got to be about me, you know,
Speaker 5: And when you're a in the rabbit hole, you start
Speaker 5: thinking the worst. You better I think just going down
Speaker 5: room and sitting there with yourself and the team was
Speaker 5: in a different place, and Brennan and obviously Hess was
Speaker 5: a huge driver that changed the whole. I guess, you know,
Speaker 5: I guess the landscape of the team, the whole You
Speaker 5: know everything about it, the whole way, the team not
Speaker 5: just run, but you know everything about what we wanted
Speaker 5: to be here as a team, who we wanted to
Speaker 5: play for, how we wanted to play was a huge
Speaker 5: drive from from those two and in Kane or you
Speaker 5: see a huge part of it as well, changing changing
Speaker 5: everything that from the first environment he walked into wasn't
Speaker 5: really ortent sary the most welcoming and friendliest environments to
Speaker 5: probably one of the best environments in the world now currently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1: You know, you talk about coming from South Africa there,
Speaker 1: Neil and there is a there is a sort of
Speaker 1: different mentality that South Africans bring onto the field. What
Speaker 1: do you think, you know, the South African cricketers that
Speaker 1: have come over from South Africa good to New Zealand
Speaker 1: bring to New Zealand crew.
Speaker 6: Yeah, look, I think the wall has changed now.
Speaker 5: I think way back in the day there was a
Speaker 5: lot more that sort of happening, even if we played
Speaker 5: against Australia or Sovaka play Australia Australia Bay in New Zealands.
Speaker 5: A lot of that sort of stuff that have happened
Speaker 5: a lot more, I think with the landscape of Tea
Speaker 5: twenty cred and all these franchise and leagues and a
Speaker 5: lot of guys playing with each other and against each other.
Speaker 6: Now you become mates of each other.
Speaker 5: So the banter is still there, but it's a lot
Speaker 5: smarter and friendly banter. It's not as aggressive as what
Speaker 5: it used to be. I guess, and it's changed massively,
Speaker 5: like you're still the oddag year are there? Or people
Speaker 5: that don't really see eye to eye like each other.
Speaker 5: That sort of still happens. But in the past it
Speaker 5: used to be a real intimidation sort of factor. You know,
Speaker 5: people try to get under your skin and went quite personal.
Speaker 5: That has changed a lot now, and I think it's
Speaker 5: through the landscape of obviously the leagues and players getting
Speaker 5: to know each other a lot, and friendships I guess
Speaker 5: all around the world now.
Speaker 4: Neil, sometimes, to be honest, you looked pretty passed off
Speaker 4: You're out there playing, and you know, Michael Jordan famously
Speaker 4: latched onto like little things just to get himself fired
Speaker 4: up in basketball games. Were you a bit like that?
Speaker 4: Did you need to, I guess stoke things along to
Speaker 4: get the best out of yourself.
Speaker 5: Every time I played with smile on my face or
Speaker 5: do something happy, I don't do it good. So I
Speaker 5: had to try and change that way.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Look, I struggle with anxiety and pressure streets and pressure
Speaker 5: of the game and things that I can really control.
Speaker 6: Selection and you know, what people think about you.
Speaker 5: And at the start of my career, when I was younger,
Speaker 5: I read way too much media. I listened to commentators
Speaker 5: talking about you know, your scene position, or being good
Speaker 5: enough of this or that, and things as you're actually
Speaker 5: trying to do, and bits and pieces in it, and
Speaker 5: it would be a thing where guys and the team
Speaker 5: would take the piss out of you with a little
Speaker 5: bit as well. And it got to a point where
Speaker 5: you know, you don't try and show it because you
Speaker 5: don't want to show weakness. You don't want to show
Speaker 5: something that could jeopardize your selection in a way.
Speaker 6: So you just bottle it up.
Speaker 5: And for me, he was trying to channel learn and
Speaker 5: obviously I guess try and get aggressive and get in
Speaker 5: a fight, in a battle with a better to get
Speaker 5: rid of all the other stuff that was.
Speaker 6: Pulling me back and holding me back.
Speaker 5: They had to try and find a blue battle to
Speaker 5: give myself to get rid of that strets and anxiety
Speaker 5: and pressures and the stuff the negative thoughts was in
Speaker 5: your head.
Speaker 2: A release valve very much.
Speaker 3: I want to briefly talk about the end and a
Speaker 3: couple of aspects of that. You write very well in
Speaker 3: the book about the meeting in Hamilton that you were
Speaker 3: called to you kind of blindsided. I was wondering how
Speaker 3: you viewed Tim's role in that, and whether you sort
Speaker 3: of had admiration for the fact that he's one of
Speaker 3: your best mates and he's sitting in that room. I'm
Speaker 3: not sure if he's struggling to make eye contact, but
Speaker 3: he knows that there's bad news coming. How you kind
Speaker 3: of felt about that, And also, in all honesty, when
Speaker 3: you came onto the base and as that twelfth man
Speaker 3: and the crowd stood as one for you, did you
Speaker 3: shed it here?
Speaker 6: I started that first.
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna lie to you. I had a not
Speaker 5: on my throat. There was a million things going through
Speaker 5: your mind that you just can't explain. Just that Number one,
Speaker 5: this is the last moment you're going to have a
Speaker 5: black cap and be close to the action in this way.
Speaker 5: Then seeing the reaction, what it's meant for people, I
Speaker 5: guess in New Zealand and I guess, yeah. Getting their
Speaker 5: reaction was something I didn't expect, but it was sort
Speaker 5: of overwhelming, to be honest, and I didn't know where
Speaker 5: I was quite try and don't know where to look
Speaker 5: at one and then instantly I thought, shit, if a
Speaker 5: catch come away, don't drop it here now. So my
Speaker 5: heart was literally in my throat thinking, gosh, don't make
Speaker 5: it up your last little moment. I guess I'm in
Speaker 5: the Black Cap and playing in New Zealand, like you
Speaker 5: could still play a part in contributing something. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean, hey, myself and Tim went through a hell
Speaker 5: of a lot together on and off the field.
Speaker 6: We pretty good mates.
Speaker 5: I write about in the book that you know, when
Speaker 5: I came into the scene first, it was probably one
Speaker 5: of the guys that didn't like me a lot and
Speaker 5: sort of didn't really know what it was like really,
Speaker 5: And so he got to know me, I guess better,
Speaker 5: and our friendship sort of grew and there was a
Speaker 5: lot of trust that grew with that.
Speaker 6: And yeah, we shared a hell of a lot.
Speaker 5: And I know for him, you know, having to sit there,
Speaker 5: I guess captain having that discussion, it could not have
Speaker 5: been easy.
Speaker 6: It must have been bloody hard.
Speaker 5: And I have a lot of respects for Tim.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 5: The first thing is we picked up the phone afterwards,
Speaker 5: and while I was on the road driving back to
Speaker 5: my had a yarn of me and spoke to me
Speaker 5: over the phone and just trying to really support and
Speaker 5: be there and every way he could and the first,
Speaker 5: you know instance that he was in the mount with
Speaker 5: a black apps camp. He text me and said, listen,
Speaker 5: let's catch up the coffee and we'll go, you know,
Speaker 5: have something and every yarn. And I've got a lot
Speaker 5: of respects for that, and I appreciate that from to
Speaker 5: me obviously, and shows you that the leader and the
Speaker 5: person he is in that sense.
Speaker 6: And it could not have been easy anyway.
Speaker 5: But that's why I sort of mentioned the book is
Speaker 5: that's the brutality of I guess sport and the nature
Speaker 5: of I'll probably not the the first, Bobby want be
Speaker 5: the last to be able to go through something like this,
Speaker 5: and it's it's you know, it's it's gutting. And it
Speaker 5: was probably the one of the lowest points I've had,
Speaker 5: I guess my career.
Speaker 6: It was pretty tough, but there's learnings and all these
Speaker 6: sort of things and you've got to take board I
Speaker 6: guess with it.
Speaker 5: And yeah, like I say, although it wasn't easy, you
Speaker 5: have to spear forward for the guys involved having to
Speaker 5: do it too.
Speaker 6: And like I said, it's the brute and brutal.
Speaker 4: Nachel's classic Dela there zeroing and on the Miserable days. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I think you're done. Yeah, classic, mate, Neil. You've made
Speaker 4: it pretty clear. I guess in the book about what
Speaker 4: you're some of your toughest days in the in the
Speaker 4: black cap have been. But but what about what about
Speaker 4: some of the great moments? What what? What one or
Speaker 4: two or whatever? You know, what comes to mind? Do
Speaker 4: you think ship that was a good day?
Speaker 5: It's hard to put a finger on it, because there's
Speaker 5: so many moments in your whole career that it's so
Speaker 5: so hard to single out. But one of the first
Speaker 5: I guess this one's when when Trend I think he
Speaker 5: took teen wickets to the base and against you know,
Speaker 5: West Indies. You know, I barely contribute in that game.
Speaker 5: I didn't really feel to good or ball to her good.
Speaker 5: But you know, seeing everyone's face and finally getting your
Speaker 5: first Test win and being able to sing the pledge
Speaker 5: and doing it out in the middle of the wicket and.
Speaker 6: Seeing the smile on everyone's faces.
Speaker 5: It took about teen, I think or eleven tests before
Speaker 5: you got your first Test one. Some of the guys
Speaker 5: rocking now and then debut at a first Test one
Speaker 5: and I don't really understand how hard it was back
Speaker 5: in the day. You know, that was a huge relief
Speaker 5: in one of the I guess most treasured moments. I
Speaker 5: guess in a black cap getting their first Test win
Speaker 5: and singing the pledge for the first time, and in
Speaker 5: that space around that time, I think going to about
Speaker 5: twenty fifteen sixteen, when when people really knew their role
Speaker 5: and stood their role and like I say, you know
Speaker 5: the way the team was run. Then the confidence within
Speaker 5: the lads and understanding each other's role and knowing that
Speaker 5: whole team first dynamic and buying into it, that whole
Speaker 5: area there when that started was amazing.
Speaker 6: It was amazing.
Speaker 5: But it's with the whole team just started. You started
Speaker 5: feeling a brotherhood building. You started realizing that your mates
Speaker 5: are playing for each other. You felt like you wanted
Speaker 5: to run for a brick wall for Canaan, Bears and
Speaker 5: the guys involved. That there was when, you know, even
Speaker 5: on the toughest days of Test crickete, you sat back
Speaker 5: and Bears was very much on not getting on too
Speaker 5: much of a high or low. And when we lost
Speaker 5: a Test match, you could sit down and have a
Speaker 5: beer and look at each other and the iron shich
Speaker 5: we gave everything, you know, we tried really hard and
Speaker 5: no one was pointing fingers. There was no sort of
Speaker 5: you know, sort of discussions having behind the doors or
Speaker 5: something like that. It was just an amazing environment to
Speaker 5: be around and be in, and that sort of grew
Speaker 5: as it went, and then I think, you know, coming
Speaker 5: in twenty seventeen eighteen, where there was you know, some
Speaker 5: really good things happening with the team, you know, starting
Speaker 5: a record which was really proud of home. We started
Speaker 5: winning test matches at home and becoming a forced to
Speaker 5: reckon with home conditions. There was amazing times as well
Speaker 5: to be able to just in the change room and
Speaker 5: know the bloody hard work has been going and beyond
Speaker 5: the scenes of this, it was just that huge I
Speaker 5: guess relief and knowing that you know, you story paying
Speaker 5: dividends finding forward. Then I guess the Test Series obviously
Speaker 5: against England, where myself fish throughout. I mean I remember
Speaker 5: looking at the screen on the TV and regular pointed
Speaker 5: it out in the change room, you know, thirty something
Speaker 5: on years through three years, I think since we've been
Speaker 5: in England in the Test Series and walked out to
Speaker 5: better vision, you know, finally sort of got a draw
Speaker 5: and warn a series. It was a bloody with great
Speaker 5: night of celebrations made. It was pretty epick night that
Speaker 5: and and that just kept you know, growing and growing,
Speaker 5: and that's I said. It was so many moments and
Speaker 5: and and all you guys and uh and you know
Speaker 5: in our test history that sort of added to you know,
Speaker 5: significant dates with that and yeah, that World Test Championship
Speaker 5: Final made.
Speaker 6: It's hard to That's that's something that will always stick
Speaker 6: with me.
Speaker 3: The guys have just had a bit of a moment themselves.
Speaker 3: Now you have any thoughts on Ada and three nil.
Speaker 4: And three zip meal?
Speaker 3: Did you put any money on there at the TV?
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not allowed to beat yet still because I'm
Speaker 5: still playing cricket right, Yeah, but if I was a
Speaker 5: betting man made.
Speaker 6: Chief as I would never guessed that.
Speaker 5: Look, hey, when you get on a plane going to India,
Speaker 5: you're excited because you know it's going to be a
Speaker 5: tough challenge. You're excited about the you know, the whole
Speaker 5: playing cricket in India, how much they love it and
Speaker 5: get beyond the.
Speaker 6: Support that everything that goes with it.
Speaker 5: But you know, as soon as you get on their plane,
Speaker 5: your backskins the wall and it's a it's a bloody
Speaker 5: tough place to go and play, mate, for so many reasons.
Speaker 5: Obviously history shows no one has done it before for
Speaker 5: them to go up there, you know, bounce back after Slanka.
Speaker 6: When not just the first test, within the second teast
Speaker 6: and the third test.
Speaker 5: That is incredibly hard to go over there and play
Speaker 5: and will achieve that, mate, it's bloody art to top that.
Speaker 5: It would be a pinnacle of most people's careers. I reckon,
Speaker 5: I said last night. I sort of thought maybe, you know,
Speaker 5: winning in Australian winning your box and atists probably probably
Speaker 5: could get up there, topping there, but no one has
Speaker 5: done an India made and that's just a phenomenal achievement.
Speaker 5: And I'm so stoked for those boys that are on
Speaker 5: involved and I know what their changing would have been
Speaker 5: like afterwards, and it's it's finally want to be and
Speaker 5: now I can tell you that.
Speaker 6: But amazing achievement and just brought a bunch of for
Speaker 6: the lads.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great stuff. Well, Neil, how do you feel about
Speaker 2: some quick fire questions? Mate? Is that all right to
Speaker 2: finish off the interview here?
Speaker 6: You sure can. I'm bloody horrible with these times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll be fine, do you want to kick us off?
Speaker 2: Pulled forward with the first question.
Speaker 4: Neil, if you weren't a professional cricketer, what would you be?
Speaker 6: Oh? Formally one driver? Or I'd love to be an
Speaker 6: all black?
Speaker 2: Oh you're nice. Does your wife do your Instagram?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 2: Mine does?
Speaker 3: What what opposition?
Speaker 6: Because sometimes I don't know how to do the bloody?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3: Hey, what one opposition player do you wish could have
Speaker 3: been on your team?
Speaker 6: A good question? I have a hushing mammer okay, roll? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Nice?
Speaker 4: Nice worst roommate and why oh.
Speaker 5: Jesus too, that's James ni number one, number two. I
Speaker 5: want to say Scott google line.
Speaker 2: Yeah nice. What is your weirdest superstition or Rachel?
Speaker 5: Oh gosh, I wouldn't say it's a superstition of richeal,
Speaker 5: But I'm I've got O C D. And I'm very
Speaker 5: neat and clean and tidy, which none would sort of
Speaker 5: pick from me, but annoy the living crapit on my teammates.
Speaker 5: My stuff will be clean and in a nice place
Speaker 5: and between Selvy Bolts and Blundle. They always used to
Speaker 5: just go muck around and I'll get back in the
Speaker 5: change room, mate, and I should just be everywhere. And
Speaker 5: I think it's funny, but yeah, it's it's not a superstition,
Speaker 5: but I just like it.
Speaker 6: And yeah, they probably the worst thing about me.
Speaker 3: Nice, easy one. Who was your favorite umpire?
Speaker 5: Oh gonna, it's got to be Richard Kilber is good. Yeah,
Speaker 5: Richard Kilber was very nice. I enjoyed joy having him
Speaker 5: in the other end.
Speaker 6: Could laugh.
Speaker 4: Meal when you're cooking at home my go to meal.
Speaker 5: Oh gosh, anything in a barbecue, mate, steak and bere
Speaker 5: and yeah, whatever I can cook in the.
Speaker 6: Barbecue, beautiful.
Speaker 1: The most disorganized person you've ever played alongside got to
Speaker 1: be a niche again, wouldn't it?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 5: Bj Watling, okay, made his gloves are not number They
Speaker 5: all in a mess, like's got to be twelve and
Speaker 5: for you, yeah, he has some gloves and you can't
Speaker 5: get a pee together.
Speaker 6: It's just all over the place being miss individual.
Speaker 3: But what's the strangest thing you've ever had to autograph?
Speaker 3: This isn't a family show, so you can say whatever
Speaker 3: you want.
Speaker 6: Gosh, there's been a few things. There's a blow up
Speaker 6: doll here, undies and a bank card right.
Speaker 4: Sorry, what's Cricket's most annoying rule.
Speaker 6: Can't buy more pounces enough.
Speaker 2: Where is your black cap right now?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 6: Great question. It's in the bag. I've got this little.
Speaker 5: Bag that I put all the caps from every team
Speaker 5: that I've played for and represented, so Tigo and obviously
Speaker 5: Normal Districts and and the Black Caps. It's my kit
Speaker 5: bag and I've taken this out and it's just sitting
Speaker 5: on top with my Black CAP's helmet, which has now
Speaker 5: been taken out of my bag in this little trophy
Speaker 5: campne thing. I've gone the garage and I haven't touched
Speaker 5: it since the last day since retirement, and it's due
Speaker 5: to get touched now because.
Speaker 6: I've got to get my indie cap out of it.
Speaker 3: So for this week's game, who is the best sledger
Speaker 3: you've come across from World Cricket?
Speaker 6: Wow?
Speaker 2: Good question.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I had a pinpoint one, but Matthew simply was outstanding.
Speaker 5: I had a lot of battles of Skippy and he
Speaker 5: was bloody funny mate. I walked out one day onto
Speaker 5: McLean Park playing a game and I had a muffin
Speaker 5: from Tea and I put it on a lengthh Andy
Speaker 5: Whens way too full for you, and he was just
Speaker 5: always starting some bant or some sledge or something, and
Speaker 5: there was always a heated battle of myself. And so
Speaker 5: I want to say, skippy Matthewson clears up there, and yeah,
Speaker 5: Joe Root wasn't far behind with a few funny comments.
Speaker 5: You were there and Aby Devilliers and Graham Smith was
Speaker 5: giving me a mouthful and my first teamitch against Sinapia.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what's your most embarrassing moment?
Speaker 6: I played a game in South Africa. I went quite
Speaker 6: hardy opposition and I walked out to bats and the
Speaker 6: guy kept asking me how's your pants feeling? And I
Speaker 6: was like, I want to think where this is going.
Speaker 5: And I just didn't bite back and sort of left
Speaker 5: and he kept going, keep going and goes, mate, can
Speaker 5: you can can you get better them in that?
Speaker 6: Like surely?
Speaker 5: After you even think I've been dishing out to you?
Speaker 5: What the hell are you talking about? Mate, I've body pants?
Speaker 5: Like surely, and he goes, how's your pants feeling? I
Speaker 5: was like fine, mate, He goes, well they're on the
Speaker 5: wrong way around, mate, And this went on for a
Speaker 5: good half an hour, and yeah, I felt like an
Speaker 5: episoute idiot after that, to be honest, and I had
Speaker 5: to bet my my pants the other way around, trying
Speaker 5: to think you don't get out now, and I don't
Speaker 5: get out.
Speaker 3: And finally, Neil, the last book you read be all out,
Speaker 3: woonn't it?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 2: I can never remember the titles of the books I'm reading.
Speaker 6: I'm a shocker, honey, funny enough, I'm horrible. I do
Speaker 6: not read a lot of books, and.
Speaker 5: I'm a shocker when it comes to reading. I'm not
Speaker 5: the best reading myself, so I never thought I would
Speaker 5: write a book myself. But I actually read The Three Quicks,
Speaker 5: which was myself and a book there Trivia. I'll get it, honestly,
Speaker 5: that's kind of the last book I'll read on this.
Speaker 5: I feel it was the book I.
Speaker 6: Recently read, and for some reason I can't remember now,
Speaker 6: but yeah, good one. I don't actually read a lot
Speaker 6: of books, which is yeah, it comes to nice surprise.
Speaker 1: Well, Neil Wagner, you're an absolute legend, mate. You were
Speaker 1: hugely and are still hugely loved by the fans out there. Mate,
Speaker 1: what a career to be proud of. And Mate, all
Speaker 1: the best with your book. I'm sure it's going to
Speaker 1: go great guns and hopefully, hopefully we still see you
Speaker 1: around about the place.
Speaker 6: No, definitely, mate, I'm still playing cricket. I'm getting on
Speaker 6: the older side now.
Speaker 5: I don't know how long I've got left, but I'm
Speaker 5: enjoying playing for and D and who knows, hopefully get
Speaker 5: stuck into their black chess game someone way to come
Speaker 5: from the near future. But you know, thank you very
Speaker 5: much for having me.
Speaker 4: Welcome back to the b YC. And Jason Howitz Bealves
Speaker 4: have hit it off to a meeting and it's poor
Speaker 4: for a Dylan Cleaver here, Dylan Neil Wagner, what a
Speaker 4: good bugger. And I had a question for you. Actually
Speaker 4: he mentioned working with the writer of the book.
Speaker 3: Was that you No, No, it wasn't. Actually I did
Speaker 3: write about Neil Wagner and the best selling modern New
Speaker 3: Zealand cricket Greats. But no, I believe it was a
Speaker 3: very talented writer named James Borrowdale, who I think And
Speaker 3: I'm sure I'll be let know if I get this wrong,
Speaker 3: but I'm pretty sure he is of South African heritage
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 4: Oh good stuff. Well, I mean, I'm sure you couldn't
Speaker 4: tell during the interview, but I haven't read the book,
Speaker 4: but I'm very keen to get my hands on forty bucks,
Speaker 4: so get stuck into it.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 3: It's a decent read, and we didn't sort of broach it.
Speaker 3: But some of the stuff around him growing up in
Speaker 3: Pretoria and relatively straightened circumstances was really interesting as well,
Speaker 3: and kind of he needed a few things to fall
Speaker 3: his way to get into the the right school, to
Speaker 3: get noticed by the right people. But in the end,
Speaker 3: you know, it wasn't quite enough. He struggled to I mean,
Speaker 3: he made it into that South African first class system,
Speaker 3: but for various reasons, his ceiling was relatively low in there.
Speaker 3: So I think he made the great call to come
Speaker 3: to this fear land of ours.
Speaker 4: We should talk about the black Cats or so Sri Lanka,
Speaker 4: But I just wanted to say one thing. I was
Speaker 4: surprised that didn't come out. Any of his answers around
Speaker 4: his favorite cricketers and all that kind of stuff was
Speaker 4: Fath Dupless, who I know he was very close to
Speaker 4: when he was growing up. I think they were schoolmates
Speaker 4: and he used to go to the Duplesses for cricket
Speaker 4: training and all of that kind of stuff. But keep
Speaker 4: that one under his hat today. Dylan Blackcats well, you
Speaker 4: must be excited. What a great way to celebrate a
Speaker 4: magnificent test victure in India. Then heading to Sri Lanka
Speaker 4: from some t twenties and one day is it? There's
Speaker 4: five matches over there, starting on Sunday night, actually Sunday
Speaker 4: morning at two thirty am. I think it is doublehead
Speaker 4: of Sunday and Monday two thirty am starts and then
Speaker 4: the first one day or is at ten pm on
Speaker 4: Wednesday night. Yeah, how do you feel about this one, Dylan?
Speaker 4: I'm not sitting there Lar.
Speaker 3: I'm not really that interested in the tea twenties. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'll watch them because it's what I do. But you
Speaker 3: know what as a kind of a.
Speaker 4: Well, what do you call that thing?
Speaker 3: What's that little drink you have in France when you
Speaker 3: finished your main meal? Is it a pestif pestis or
Speaker 3: a pair of tief is beforehand? And then yeah, I
Speaker 3: think it's you have something to close the stomach afterwards,
Speaker 3: a brandy or something like that. Yeah, the one days
Speaker 3: we'll do it for me? Is she? For the simple
Speaker 3: reason is there's like I don't really care about the results.
Speaker 3: Well I say that now, but I'm really intrigued to
Speaker 3: see a couple of these guys that have been waiting
Speaker 3: for opportunities, Zach Fuchs or Fuchs. Is that how you
Speaker 3: say that, Fuchs or folks or I.
Speaker 4: Think it's folks.
Speaker 3: Looking forward to watching him player looking forward to watching
Speaker 3: Tim Robinson, Mitch Hay, Nathan Smith. Like there's a real
Speaker 3: sprinkling of under thirties in there, which is not that
Speaker 3: common in New Zealand international cricket scene at the moment.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm excited enough. What about you?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, look, I'm excited to see how Nathan Smith goes.
Speaker 4: You mentioned him and Mitch Hay, then keeper batsman from Canterbury.
Speaker 4: I think the other debutante that's in there. I think
Speaker 4: Smith was a Domestic Player of the Year last year
Speaker 4: and I think Hay was Canterbury's Player of the Year
Speaker 4: and nice to see those guys have a crack and
Speaker 4: get stuck in. I think Smith's in particular is really
Speaker 4: banging on the door. And you would imagine, I don't
Speaker 4: know that who would be the next wicket keeper up
Speaker 4: if Blundle was injured in the Test patch. I was
Speaker 4: just trying to work that out of my head on
Speaker 4: the fly.
Speaker 3: I think the vindicated that Mitch Hay is seen as
Speaker 3: a red bull option was perhaps Daine Cleaver, who's over
Speaker 3: time has got the best record of them. I think
Speaker 3: you've seen more a white ball keeper at the stage
Speaker 3: of his career, and you know he's plus thirty now
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: He might be.
Speaker 3: He might have missed his.
Speaker 4: Y, missed the bus. Also, I always look forward to
Speaker 4: seeing Lockie Ferguson and he'll be leading that attack with
Speaker 4: Jacob Duffy, the two old dogs, and then yeah, just
Speaker 4: say folks and Smith and Clarkson, I guess will be
Speaker 4: the main, the main, the main event on that front.
Speaker 4: Lots of guys aren't available for this series. Blundle Conway
Speaker 4: later Mitchell O'Rourke sow the ravender Williamson of course, and
Speaker 4: then add an a shock out with the back injury.
Speaker 4: Ben says is still injured in Cole Jamison, I think's
Speaker 4: out till kind of March next year at the earliest.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's a bit of a ragtag bunch.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I guess we'll know we've already talked about
Speaker 3: him on this podcast at length. But I'm also looking
Speaker 3: forward to you you go through that squad there and
Speaker 3: I'll just quickly run through it sent Nichols, Young, Robinson, Braceball, Chapman, Clarkson, Folks, Foxcrift, Phillips, Ferguson,
Speaker 3: Duffy Hay and Nathan Smith. You know, Will Young is
Speaker 3: almost like the senior player in there now, and he's
Speaker 3: coming off the first kind of I guess, coming of
Speaker 3: age moment in his test cricket. I'd be interested to
Speaker 3: see if he just is a little bit more puffed
Speaker 3: out at the crease if you if you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, you can tell when a batsman feels like
Speaker 3: he might have made it. He knows that he belongs,
Speaker 3: He knows that that's a far better way of putting it.
Speaker 3: He now knows he belongs and can play at this level.
Speaker 3: And I just like to see if that transfers to
Speaker 3: the other formats and just as general countenance on the
Speaker 3: field hard to measure obviously countenance.
Speaker 6: But.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll see, We'll see how he goes. I feel
Speaker 4: like the New Zealanders have got something to prove after
Speaker 4: the shoddiness of the of the Test matches. As well.
Speaker 4: Other good news, I guess the world champion white ferns
Speaker 4: are rampaging their way around New Zealand, including to Havelock North,
Speaker 4: I know, and there are national tour they swung by
Speaker 4: Tarwa College and Tawa Intermediate here in Wellington over the
Speaker 4: recent days of Absolute Powerhouse under the tutelage of Robbie Kerr,
Speaker 4: of course, absolute magnet for woman's cricket talent over the
Speaker 4: over the years. Warm fuzzies around this one DC.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's well, it's not a shame, It's
Speaker 3: never a shame, but it almost feels like they didn't
Speaker 3: get a long enough celebration before events moved to Benglaruho
Speaker 3: and Pune and Mumbai. But yeah, we shouldn't forget that.
Speaker 3: It wasn't long ago that they just pulled one out
Speaker 3: of the fire and it was brilliant And look, I
Speaker 3: hope they get all the kudos that's coming their way,
Speaker 3: and I hope, as we've mentioned before, I hope it
Speaker 3: actually translates into real gains for women's cricket around the country,
Speaker 3: whether it be coverage, whether it be particip participation numbers
Speaker 3: or just general vibe of the thing. Will be fantastic.
Speaker 3: But have some of the players gone on to the WBBL,
Speaker 3: which is in full swing right now. I was doing
Speaker 3: quick check of scorecards. I haven't seen much yet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if they have made it over now.
Speaker 4: Maybe obviously Ameliacur and Sophie Devine and the like, they've
Speaker 4: certainly been on tour, but whether they're doing the whole
Speaker 4: shooting box, I'm not quite sure. So maybe you might
Speaker 4: find that they go their separate ways over the next
Speaker 4: few days. The other thing that's coming out on the
Speaker 4: women's cricket front is the Future Tours program, effectively for
Speaker 4: in the scheduling for the women's cricket and there was
Speaker 4: a bit of speculation leading in and then leading out
Speaker 4: of that announcement. The likes of Susie Bates and Sophie
Speaker 4: Divine merely occurre obviously really gagging to be playing some
Speaker 4: test cricket, but the economics, from the sound of it,
Speaker 4: just did not stack up for New Zealand cricket. So
Speaker 4: it looks like that is not going to be a thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder if it evid will I mean, it
Speaker 3: feels like something that in Yeah, Australia and England will
Speaker 3: do and no one else will. I mean, have South
Speaker 3: Africa played a Test? Did they play one recently? I
Speaker 3: think they may have actually, yeah.
Speaker 4: Maybe, And I think the West Indies have got a
Speaker 4: couple of test matches scheduled in this in this next
Speaker 4: set as well, and certainly England are going to be
Speaker 4: playing Westernies, India, Australian South Africa and test matches. So okay, yeah,
Speaker 4: we seem like a bit of an odd one out
Speaker 4: in terms of not being able to do that. But
Speaker 4: economics I think plays a big part there obviously.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how I feel about that, to
Speaker 3: be honest, I don't know if I can quite work
Speaker 3: up the requisite outrage for it, because yeah, I like
Speaker 3: the I like the way woman's cricket is trending in
Speaker 3: the T twenties and ODI's and the way it's being played.
Speaker 3: Would I be gagging for a woman's test match? I
Speaker 3: mean it's not up to me. Oh yes, but you know,
Speaker 3: probably not.
Speaker 4: And you've got to say when you I don't know
Speaker 4: if you've had a good look at it yet, but
Speaker 4: you know that when you look at that FTP cycle,
Speaker 4: there's a very quite a clinical calendar, unlike the men's game,
Speaker 4: quite a clinical calendar with carve outs for the major
Speaker 4: T twenty competitions. Obviously, the T twenty World Cup every
Speaker 4: couple of years, the fifty over World Cup every four years.
Speaker 4: It's actually pretty damn organized compared to that absolute smagas
Speaker 4: board Shenanigans that is the men's schedule. Now obviously that's
Speaker 4: economics as well, but yeah, it looks a hell of
Speaker 4: a lot more organized that from a from A for
Speaker 4: the woman. But anyway, on we go.
Speaker 3: That clinically. Can I mention something that's maybe not as
Speaker 3: clinically organized as the women's FTP, and that is Auckland
Speaker 3: Crickets scheduling. So press release dropped in into my inbox
Speaker 3: this morning and it's we've already broached this topic, but
Speaker 3: it was there were a couple of Auckland dates in
Speaker 3: the Super Smash the Dream of eleven Supersmash that were TBC,
Speaker 3: and the press release reads, please note the venues for
Speaker 3: Auckland's for Dream eleven super Smash games on January thirteen
Speaker 3: and fifteen, initially slated for Eden Park before being compromised
Speaker 3: by a music concert, have been agreed to below and
Speaker 3: they're going to Seddon Park and McClain Park. Napier. I
Speaker 3: can confirm that neither Seddon Park, Hamilton nor mcclaim Park
Speaker 3: Napier are in fact in Auckland. And I also, I mean,
Speaker 3: did you detect a kind of sneering irritability from New
Speaker 3: Zealand Cricket in that press release pool?
Speaker 4: Yes, a little bit. And I mean the other thing
Speaker 4: is that I think it's the Luke isn't it the
Speaker 4: Luke Combs concert. I don't even like that big country
Speaker 4: and Western singer guy. And so I mean tickets on
Speaker 4: that have been literally to the Eaton Park concert on
Speaker 4: that day have been signed, sealed, delivered, sold, months and
Speaker 4: months and months ago, so it shouldn't really be a surprise,
Speaker 4: but yet the announcement is so so late. So yeah,
Speaker 4: Shamble's absolute chambers.
Speaker 3: And this has wider implications obviously, and that and Scott
Speaker 3: Weinding's got a bit of grief for this when he
Speaker 3: came out and back to Eden Park is the future
Speaker 3: home of New Zealand cricket or cricket in Auckland, International
Speaker 3: cricket in Auckland. And I know exactly why he had
Speaker 3: to do it. I mean, you want to host cricket
Speaker 3: in the biggest city in the country and if there
Speaker 3: are no other options, you back the option. That's potentially available.
Speaker 3: But eden Park, on the other hand, have made it
Speaker 3: very very clear that they see their summer future in
Speaker 3: the concert game. Stadiums for music. Concerts need huge leaden
Speaker 3: times to prepare them and get them ready. Cricket is
Speaker 3: just going to be forced to the margins in Auckland
Speaker 3: unless they get a bespoke venue. I mean, I'm banging
Speaker 3: my head against the brick wall here. Eden Park is
Speaker 3: not the future for cricket in Auckland. It's a diabolical
Speaker 3: set of affairs which was just in this just kind
Speaker 3: of reinforced it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're turning into the full the equivalent of Pakistan
Speaker 4: and international cricket and days gone by, recent days gone by. Yeah,
Speaker 4: not not great, not great. But I want to keep
Speaker 4: an eye on too, because, as you say, yeah, the
Speaker 4: sneering irritability, they cannot continue. You wouldn't. You wouldn't assume, Hey, Dylan,
Speaker 4: have you got a who am I? This week?
Speaker 6: I have?
Speaker 4: It's Dylan Cleavers. Who am I.
Speaker 5: You were?
Speaker 3: Last week? A couple of sharp eyed listeners or sharp
Speaker 3: aired listeners detected correctly that who am I was Mark Burgess,
Speaker 3: the blue eyed Aucan grammar schoolboy, and they were Michael
Speaker 3: Seth and Patrick Peterson are there, Michaels. I made a
Speaker 3: reference to him being usurped by another blue eyed Ucan
Speaker 3: grammar boy, and he thought that I was reference seeing
Speaker 3: Martin Crow, but in fact I was referencing another one,
Speaker 3: which was Jeffrey Phillip Howerth who took over the captaincy
Speaker 3: from Mark Burgess and kind of led the first Golden
Speaker 3: era of New Zealand cricket ready through his urbane captaincy.
Speaker 4: Mark Burgess was a gun fielder too, right. I remember
Speaker 4: my dad talking about Mark Burgess and the covers, the
Speaker 4: young fellow, and I didn't quite know who he meant,
Speaker 4: but yeah, I worked I did work that out, and
Speaker 4: didn't he. I think he also worked at Britain Cricket
Speaker 4: Cricket bat sales and sports goods and all of that,
Speaker 4: which was obviously I think that was where Phil Horn
Speaker 4: ended up as well. But after after subsequently, ye man
Speaker 4: Phil Horn? Yeah, okay, cool, we have you got a
Speaker 4: new Have you got another? Who am I for us?
Speaker 4: This week?
Speaker 3: Certainly have? And I think I've made the clues a
Speaker 3: little bit harder, a little bit more cryptic this time around.
Speaker 3: But I guess the listeners will tell me if that's
Speaker 3: the case.
Speaker 2: Who am I?
Speaker 3: Is the case with a lot of New Zealand cricketers.
Speaker 3: My wisdom career summary comes with the classic did his
Speaker 3: talent no justice? Line, But that's not strictly true. While
Speaker 3: that might have described the majority of my seventy international matches,
Speaker 3: I found enormous comfort in the middle of a foreign field,
Speaker 3: specifically one patch of grass surrounded by streets like Kennington
Speaker 3: av Surrey Road and Lancashire Road. Very strange. I'm being
Speaker 3: a little oblique here, which is the opposite of my
Speaker 3: batting that was very direct. I could have been a
Speaker 3: great T twenty I player, although I never played one.
Speaker 3: Very strange. Although I'm a wisty, my career revival occurred
Speaker 3: while I was a banker in Europe's financial capital. Then
Speaker 3: I became a wisty of sorts. Again, very strange. All
Speaker 3: good things must come to an end. Mine did at
Speaker 3: Milton Keynes, of all places. Very strange. Who the hell
Speaker 3: am I?
Speaker 4: Do you have any clues for intriguing? No, I don't.
Speaker 6: I feel.
Speaker 4: Oh it's really got my brain wearing mate, this one.
Speaker 4: This one, yeah, No, this is I'm gonna have to
Speaker 4: wrap the memory banks and get the get the men
Speaker 4: and white out. I think for this one, I've got
Speaker 4: one of those big exhibition copies as big as a
Speaker 4: table of men in white that we got loan to
Speaker 4: us from the tab and I'm the acc custodian of
Speaker 4: that book and it is an absolute beast. So I'll
Speaker 4: have a look and see what I can find intriguing clues. Hey,
Speaker 4: before we go, I do have a violence corner, poor
Speaker 4: forwards cricket violence corner, yes, And this week great news
Speaker 4: tip following terrible news, A man has been arrested following
Speaker 4: a burglary at the home of England cricket captain Ben Stokes.
Speaker 4: Stokes was in Pakistan for the recent Test series and
Speaker 4: his wife and two children rapped the property in Castle Eden,
Speaker 4: County Durham, when a masked, gang broken two year old
Speaker 4: man from North Yorkshire was arrested overnight on suspicion of
Speaker 4: burglary and he has been released on bail. Stak Stokes
Speaker 4: said his family did not come to any physical harm,
Speaker 4: but a number of sentimental items were taken, including the
Speaker 4: medal for his obe, which he received in twenty twenty
Speaker 4: for helping England draw the World Cup the year before.
Speaker 4: He posted pictures of the missing items on social media,
Speaker 4: which also included three necklaces, a ring and a designer bag. Yes,
Speaker 4: well I'm not saying that he deserved it, but yeah,
Speaker 4: good news for him. But what a thing to steal
Speaker 4: the OBA awarded after the atrocious crackle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a real thing in England, isn't it. It
Speaker 3: happens often to football players that when they go away
Speaker 3: to play in Europe their houses get burgled by otunistic
Speaker 3: masked robbers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Grim, Hey, DC, we've crept on for long enough today,
Speaker 4: thanks to everybody for listening. If you've got a short epistle,
Speaker 4: flick at our way b YC at Basebagade dot cod
Speaker 4: on NZ will slide into their dms on the ACC
Speaker 4: or the base Brigade on Instagram or Facebook and we
Speaker 4: will copy and paste that into our WhatsApp group and
Speaker 4: folded into our our episode next week. But in the meantime, DC,
Speaker 4: you have a great week, and we hope Jason's bowls
Speaker 4: are okay. And I'll tell you what, no matter what
Speaker 4: happens in Sri Lanka, we probably won't be coming in
Speaker 4: as hot and excited as we did. Today because this
Speaker 4: may be, we may be in the aftermath of the
Speaker 4: greatest ever performance by a New Zealand cricket team and
Speaker 4: the greatest Fortnite in BYC history.