1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,427 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:12,027 Speaker 1: from Newstalk zb. 3 00:00:13,427 --> 00:00:16,507 Speaker 2: New Zealand punters will no longer be able to bet 4 00:00:16,547 --> 00:00:20,587 Speaker 2: with overseas bookmakers under new laws that have come into 5 00:00:20,667 --> 00:00:25,347 Speaker 2: effect today. On Wednesday afternoon, the Racing Industry Amendment Bill 6 00:00:25,547 --> 00:00:29,027 Speaker 2: unanimously passed its third reading in Parliament. It's been signed 7 00:00:29,027 --> 00:00:32,587 Speaker 2: into law and is in effect as of right now. 8 00:00:32,787 --> 00:00:35,627 Speaker 2: The bill makes changes to New Zealand betting laws to 9 00:00:35,747 --> 00:00:40,547 Speaker 2: create a legislative net. It makes it illegal for overseas 10 00:00:40,627 --> 00:00:45,027 Speaker 2: betting operators to accept online bets on sport and racing 11 00:00:45,547 --> 00:00:48,907 Speaker 2: from anybody living in New Zealand now. Until now, it's 12 00:00:49,027 --> 00:00:52,707 Speaker 2: estimated that one hundred and eighty to two hundred million 13 00:00:52,787 --> 00:00:58,747 Speaker 2: dollars each year is bet offshore by kiwis upter seventy 14 00:00:58,787 --> 00:01:02,267 Speaker 2: percent of that is with UK agency Bet three sixty five. Now, 15 00:01:02,307 --> 00:01:06,227 Speaker 2: the proceeds of money bet with offshore operators doesn't flow 16 00:01:06,227 --> 00:01:09,267 Speaker 2: through to our racing industry or to the thirty eight 17 00:01:09,347 --> 00:01:12,707 Speaker 2: national sporting organizations on which sports betting occurs here in 18 00:01:12,707 --> 00:01:15,107 Speaker 2: New Zealand. The passing of this bell also means an 19 00:01:15,147 --> 00:01:18,907 Speaker 2: immediate one hundred million dollar payout from the TAB strategic 20 00:01:18,987 --> 00:01:22,547 Speaker 2: partner in Tain Group. They oversee the tab's betting, wagering 21 00:01:22,547 --> 00:01:25,907 Speaker 2: and broadcast operations. Of that one hundred million, eighty million 22 00:01:25,947 --> 00:01:28,787 Speaker 2: will go straight to racing and twenty million to sport 23 00:01:28,827 --> 00:01:31,627 Speaker 2: New Zealand, they're going to divvy it up among the 24 00:01:31,747 --> 00:01:37,227 Speaker 2: national sporting organizations as they see fit. Nick Roberts is 25 00:01:37,307 --> 00:01:41,307 Speaker 2: the CEO of the New Zealand TAB. He joins us Now, Nick, 26 00:01:41,307 --> 00:01:44,547 Speaker 2: thanks for taking the time. How significant are development is this? 27 00:01:46,187 --> 00:01:50,427 Speaker 3: Yeah, good afternoon. Look, it's an amazing outcome for New Zealand. 28 00:01:51,027 --> 00:01:51,427 Speaker 1: This is. 29 00:01:52,987 --> 00:01:56,347 Speaker 3: A reset of the intention of the TV created in 30 00:01:56,427 --> 00:01:59,627 Speaker 3: nineteen fifty so were coming up seventy five years and 31 00:01:59,667 --> 00:02:02,587 Speaker 3: we had sports been joined us in nineteen ninety six 32 00:02:02,947 --> 00:02:06,747 Speaker 3: and the funding that the community through racing and through 33 00:02:06,787 --> 00:02:09,747 Speaker 3: sport has relied on was not a serious threat. As 34 00:02:09,747 --> 00:02:12,787 Speaker 3: you say, with that two hundred million dollar being lost 35 00:02:12,787 --> 00:02:15,867 Speaker 3: out of the regulated environment about a third of our market. 36 00:02:16,307 --> 00:02:19,027 Speaker 2: How important to the racing industry and to our national 37 00:02:19,027 --> 00:02:22,467 Speaker 2: sporting bodies is the money they receive from betting through 38 00:02:22,507 --> 00:02:22,987 Speaker 2: the TAB. 39 00:02:24,227 --> 00:02:27,227 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, look we are a funder for the racing industry. 40 00:02:27,667 --> 00:02:30,707 Speaker 3: It's an industry which adds about two billion dollars to 41 00:02:30,747 --> 00:02:34,027 Speaker 3: the economy every year, jobs about thirteen and a half 42 00:02:34,027 --> 00:02:35,867 Speaker 3: thousand and as you and your list as will know, 43 00:02:35,947 --> 00:02:38,267 Speaker 3: a lot of that in regional New Zealand. So really 44 00:02:38,307 --> 00:02:42,307 Speaker 3: critical for the racing industry to ensure that funding is 45 00:02:42,387 --> 00:02:45,747 Speaker 3: sustainable for the long run and for sports. I think 46 00:02:46,667 --> 00:02:50,427 Speaker 3: it's become more and more important for them as other 47 00:02:50,707 --> 00:02:53,947 Speaker 3: situations have tightened their funding. So we're really excited to 48 00:02:54,507 --> 00:02:58,707 Speaker 3: be able to continue the funding of sport in particular, 49 00:02:58,827 --> 00:03:03,627 Speaker 3: I think in terms of the challenges that they have 50 00:03:04,067 --> 00:03:06,307 Speaker 3: and being able to give twenty million dollars to Sport 51 00:03:06,347 --> 00:03:09,467 Speaker 3: New Zealand upfront is a really great opportunity there. 52 00:03:09,787 --> 00:03:12,187 Speaker 2: So just clarify for us next. So when money is 53 00:03:12,227 --> 00:03:15,947 Speaker 2: bet on a sport in New Zealand, regardless of whether 54 00:03:16,027 --> 00:03:18,827 Speaker 2: it's a New Zealand sport, unless use basketball as an example, 55 00:03:18,987 --> 00:03:22,227 Speaker 2: if somebody bets on the NBA, then Basketball New Zealand 56 00:03:22,387 --> 00:03:23,587 Speaker 2: benefit from that, is. 57 00:03:23,547 --> 00:03:28,067 Speaker 3: That right, That's right? Yeah, So the sport's funding model 58 00:03:28,187 --> 00:03:31,507 Speaker 3: is a commission structure, so they get commissions are paid 59 00:03:31,547 --> 00:03:35,827 Speaker 3: on turnover and gross profit. So yeah, every bet sort 60 00:03:35,867 --> 00:03:39,307 Speaker 3: of is contributing back to the local sport that sport is. 61 00:03:39,787 --> 00:03:42,787 Speaker 2: Would you expect or estimate that the close to two 62 00:03:42,827 --> 00:03:47,067 Speaker 2: hundred million bet offshore each year up to now will 63 00:03:47,667 --> 00:03:50,787 Speaker 2: largely transfer to betting on the tab. 64 00:03:51,667 --> 00:03:53,187 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean look at that, that is the total 65 00:03:53,267 --> 00:03:57,587 Speaker 3: million dollar question. I think the situation there is going 66 00:03:57,627 --> 00:03:59,667 Speaker 3: to be one that unfolds that we do think that 67 00:03:59,747 --> 00:04:02,747 Speaker 3: a large part of that market will be recaptured, and 68 00:04:02,787 --> 00:04:05,627 Speaker 3: I think you know what shouldn't be lost along this 69 00:04:05,787 --> 00:04:11,307 Speaker 3: journey is that the harmonimization outcome for customers is really important. 70 00:04:11,347 --> 00:04:16,067 Speaker 3: It is a big priority of our business and capturing 71 00:04:16,107 --> 00:04:17,747 Speaker 3: as much as we can of that market, we are 72 00:04:17,827 --> 00:04:20,387 Speaker 3: ensuring that the care we are betting in the safest 73 00:04:20,467 --> 00:04:22,987 Speaker 3: environment possible. And I think when you look at all 74 00:04:22,987 --> 00:04:26,787 Speaker 3: the options available for gaming regulation, I think we've struck 75 00:04:26,827 --> 00:04:29,347 Speaker 3: a pretty good balance here and that probably goes to 76 00:04:29,387 --> 00:04:33,267 Speaker 3: your point about the Parliament voting for this unanimously signals 77 00:04:33,267 --> 00:04:34,307 Speaker 3: that we've got that's pretty right. 78 00:04:34,987 --> 00:04:39,107 Speaker 2: What do those harm minimization protections include? 79 00:04:39,747 --> 00:04:42,827 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I think one of the important things when 80 00:04:42,867 --> 00:04:47,347 Speaker 3: we look to partner with an offshore operator, which we 81 00:04:47,427 --> 00:04:51,987 Speaker 3: did with NTAIN, is to leverage their scale and when 82 00:04:52,027 --> 00:04:55,547 Speaker 3: we replatform the TV business from our old site to 83 00:04:56,027 --> 00:05:04,507 Speaker 3: their technology. The investment in technology took harmonimization fought a 84 00:05:04,587 --> 00:05:08,587 Speaker 3: long way overnight. There's a lot of deep investment into 85 00:05:08,627 --> 00:05:12,187 Speaker 3: both tools for customers to manage manage their betting and 86 00:05:12,427 --> 00:05:15,907 Speaker 3: also the monitoring system. And it is just natural benefits 87 00:05:15,907 --> 00:05:20,507 Speaker 3: of a single operator market. So being able to know 88 00:05:20,587 --> 00:05:23,027 Speaker 3: that when a customer has a problem and you stop 89 00:05:23,027 --> 00:05:24,467 Speaker 3: them betting, that they don't just go off down the 90 00:05:24,467 --> 00:05:27,387 Speaker 3: street to another operator. You know, it's a really important 91 00:05:27,387 --> 00:05:27,747 Speaker 3: part of that. 92 00:05:28,467 --> 00:05:31,467 Speaker 2: Why do New Zealanders bet using overseas providers? 93 00:05:32,547 --> 00:05:35,707 Speaker 3: Oh look, I think there's a bunch of reasons for that. 94 00:05:35,867 --> 00:05:39,467 Speaker 3: I think the historical TV had a few challenges on 95 00:05:39,507 --> 00:05:43,387 Speaker 3: the brand. So going forward, you know, as next Tuesday, 96 00:05:43,587 --> 00:05:45,707 Speaker 3: people will only be able to bet with tav and 97 00:05:45,747 --> 00:05:48,987 Speaker 3: the new online only brand Betcher. And I think so 98 00:05:49,107 --> 00:05:51,867 Speaker 3: there was probably a branding issure that people, you know, 99 00:05:51,987 --> 00:05:54,107 Speaker 3: as time's gone on, people didn't want to bet with 100 00:05:54,107 --> 00:05:56,267 Speaker 3: their dance brand. They wanted to have something that was 101 00:05:56,267 --> 00:06:00,267 Speaker 3: their own, and we think bet Betcher offers that fresh approach. 102 00:06:00,347 --> 00:06:05,507 Speaker 3: And I think also people probably got frustrated by the experience, right, 103 00:06:05,547 --> 00:06:08,507 Speaker 3: I mean, as we've talked about, you know, we've got 104 00:06:08,827 --> 00:06:11,587 Speaker 3: a big fund and obligation to the back to the community, 105 00:06:11,827 --> 00:06:13,867 Speaker 3: which made it hard for us to invest in the 106 00:06:13,907 --> 00:06:17,867 Speaker 3: technology platforms in the past. But going we're really what 107 00:06:17,987 --> 00:06:21,067 Speaker 3: we've managed to achieve over the last couple of years 108 00:06:21,187 --> 00:06:23,907 Speaker 3: is basically that we'll have keyweeds well get a world 109 00:06:23,947 --> 00:06:27,107 Speaker 3: class experience through Intain. They'll be in the safest environment 110 00:06:27,187 --> 00:06:29,787 Speaker 3: possible and we're going to maximize our outcomes for our country. 111 00:06:29,867 --> 00:06:31,667 Speaker 3: You know, what is the greatest country in the world, 112 00:06:31,747 --> 00:06:36,067 Speaker 3: and we think this is probably the leading gaming regulation 113 00:06:36,107 --> 00:06:36,547 Speaker 3: in the world. 114 00:06:36,907 --> 00:06:40,587 Speaker 2: Other countries, of course have similar legislation Australia does. The 115 00:06:40,627 --> 00:06:43,387 Speaker 2: difference there, of course is punthers have a variety of 116 00:06:43,427 --> 00:06:46,667 Speaker 2: domestic betting options available to them. The ta B will 117 00:06:46,667 --> 00:06:50,507 Speaker 2: now have a monopoly on sports and racing betting here 118 00:06:50,547 --> 00:06:54,427 Speaker 2: in New Zealand. So won't this mean decreased odds with 119 00:06:54,507 --> 00:06:55,667 Speaker 2: no outside competition. 120 00:06:57,067 --> 00:07:01,147 Speaker 3: Absolutely not so. In Taine. People may have seen their 121 00:07:01,187 --> 00:07:03,867 Speaker 3: press release and you know this has been undertaken to 122 00:07:03,947 --> 00:07:05,587 Speaker 3: us as well, that they'll offer the same odds that 123 00:07:05,587 --> 00:07:10,187 Speaker 3: they offer Australian market. So the Australian wageram market for 124 00:07:10,267 --> 00:07:12,547 Speaker 3: people that don't know, is the most competitive in the world. 125 00:07:13,107 --> 00:07:17,347 Speaker 3: And what that means is that customers have that benefit 126 00:07:17,427 --> 00:07:19,947 Speaker 3: of the pricing that occurs in that market, as well 127 00:07:19,987 --> 00:07:23,147 Speaker 3: as the platform and technology development that goes with it. 128 00:07:23,387 --> 00:07:25,427 Speaker 2: Because I guess people hear the word monopoly, don't they neck, 129 00:07:25,427 --> 00:07:28,627 Speaker 2: and they think I gain no competition, These blokes can 130 00:07:28,667 --> 00:07:30,947 Speaker 2: do what they like. What would you say to that 131 00:07:30,987 --> 00:07:31,707 Speaker 2: sort of comment. 132 00:07:32,747 --> 00:07:35,627 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I think you know, historically that would have 133 00:07:35,787 --> 00:07:39,187 Speaker 3: perhaps been where the business went. But I think, as 134 00:07:39,187 --> 00:07:41,347 Speaker 3: I say, we've struck a really great deal with NTAIN 135 00:07:41,547 --> 00:07:46,507 Speaker 3: and the setting that we have really important to get 136 00:07:46,547 --> 00:07:49,547 Speaker 3: those harmonimization measers right, to make sure that we're not 137 00:07:50,707 --> 00:07:54,227 Speaker 3: removing vital funding to the good of the country, and 138 00:07:54,307 --> 00:07:57,747 Speaker 3: all those things, as they say, you know, were balanced 139 00:07:58,107 --> 00:08:00,907 Speaker 3: by lawmakers through the last six months. 140 00:08:01,227 --> 00:08:04,947 Speaker 2: One of the other concerns I've seen expressed is that 141 00:08:05,067 --> 00:08:08,507 Speaker 2: it could potentially be restrictive on how much somebody can bet, 142 00:08:08,547 --> 00:08:11,427 Speaker 2: how much somebody can win, particularly if they're successful over 143 00:08:11,467 --> 00:08:14,667 Speaker 2: a long period of time. What's the response to that 144 00:08:14,707 --> 00:08:15,667 Speaker 2: sort of concern. 145 00:08:16,587 --> 00:08:19,187 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I think that's going to be an involving 146 00:08:19,387 --> 00:08:21,907 Speaker 3: piece for us to keep making sure that customers are 147 00:08:21,947 --> 00:08:24,787 Speaker 3: getting a fair go that it is vital that that happens. 148 00:08:25,147 --> 00:08:27,547 Speaker 3: There is, as I say, a commercial imperative that the 149 00:08:27,587 --> 00:08:31,027 Speaker 3: business has to face into because of our funding requirements 150 00:08:31,067 --> 00:08:34,347 Speaker 3: for the community. But we expect people to be able 151 00:08:34,387 --> 00:08:36,827 Speaker 3: to have a decent bet on a New Zealand race. 152 00:08:37,667 --> 00:08:41,267 Speaker 3: We expect certain sports to be engaged with the all 153 00:08:41,347 --> 00:08:44,787 Speaker 3: laps matches and that sort of thing, to have that activity. 154 00:08:44,827 --> 00:08:50,427 Speaker 3: But let's not also forget that betting is a discretionary activity. 155 00:08:51,307 --> 00:08:54,587 Speaker 2: The legislation doesn't GEO block New Zealanders from offshore betting sites, 156 00:08:54,627 --> 00:08:56,547 Speaker 2: does it. You can still get on them, but it 157 00:08:56,627 --> 00:09:00,267 Speaker 2: does make it illegal for those operators to accept a 158 00:09:00,347 --> 00:09:03,587 Speaker 2: bet from somebody who lives in New Zealand. So how 159 00:09:03,627 --> 00:09:04,987 Speaker 2: confident are you that they'll do that? 160 00:09:06,467 --> 00:09:09,827 Speaker 3: Really confident? So I think the important thing to know 161 00:09:09,907 --> 00:09:12,427 Speaker 3: there is that you know, the way the bidding markets 162 00:09:12,467 --> 00:09:15,187 Speaker 3: sort of exist slobally, and we've got a really good 163 00:09:15,307 --> 00:09:18,827 Speaker 3: understanding of what that term a million dollar market looks like. 164 00:09:19,467 --> 00:09:25,507 Speaker 3: Is that the operators are subjects to strict regulation around 165 00:09:25,547 --> 00:09:28,027 Speaker 3: where they do operate, So you know, they don't want 166 00:09:28,067 --> 00:09:32,107 Speaker 3: to block their copybook by going against the Act of 167 00:09:32,147 --> 00:09:35,547 Speaker 3: the New Zealand Parliament. And you know where we'll be 168 00:09:35,547 --> 00:09:39,827 Speaker 3: working with the DEA to make sure that it's enforced appropriately. 169 00:09:39,667 --> 00:09:41,747 Speaker 2: All right, And obviously you've known about this for a while. 170 00:09:41,747 --> 00:09:44,907 Speaker 2: It's been through been through three readings. Now, as I say, 171 00:09:44,947 --> 00:09:47,227 Speaker 2: passed during the week. Well, what's the reaction been to 172 00:09:47,307 --> 00:09:49,987 Speaker 2: it as it's been going through the legius lot of 173 00:09:50,067 --> 00:09:52,827 Speaker 2: process and now that it has passed, what sort of 174 00:09:52,867 --> 00:09:54,867 Speaker 2: reaction have you had in the past few days. 175 00:09:55,507 --> 00:09:59,027 Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I think everyone's pretty excited, you know, about 176 00:09:59,027 --> 00:10:01,827 Speaker 3: the opportunity that it does bring for New Zealand. And 177 00:10:01,867 --> 00:10:04,907 Speaker 3: I think one of the as I say, the important 178 00:10:04,907 --> 00:10:08,387 Speaker 3: things for us was that getting that unanimous support across 179 00:10:08,427 --> 00:10:12,427 Speaker 3: the Parliament means that this is something that will sustain 180 00:10:12,467 --> 00:10:14,507 Speaker 3: for a long time. And I think, you know, the 181 00:10:14,547 --> 00:10:17,467 Speaker 3: sustainability of these settings is really important to. 182 00:10:17,467 --> 00:10:20,107 Speaker 2: Us significant development. Thanks so much for joining us to 183 00:10:20,427 --> 00:10:22,067 Speaker 2: fill us in, Nick, really appreciate your time. 184 00:10:22,787 --> 00:10:23,467 Speaker 3: Thanks very much. 185 00:10:23,507 --> 00:10:27,107 Speaker 2: That's Nick Roberts, CEO of THAB, New Zealand, with us 186 00:10:27,147 --> 00:10:27,987 Speaker 2: on Weekend Sport One. 187 00:10:28,387 --> 00:10:31,587 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 188 00:10:31,707 --> 00:10:35,107 Speaker 1: to News talk edb weekends from midday, or follow the 189 00:10:35,107 --> 00:10:36,627 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.