1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Killer duple see Ellen. Consumer New Zealand is launching a 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: petition calling for banks to reimburse scam victims. Now. They 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: think that unless the scam victim has been grossly negligent, 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: the bank should have a responsibility to pay back any 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: money that was nicked. Jessica Walker is the Communications of 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: campaigns manager at Consumer and with Us. Now, Hey Jessica, Hi, Hather, 7 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: how are you very well? Thank you, Jessica. I would 8 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: imagine that very very few scam victims would be considered 9 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: grossly negligent. 10 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: Yet no, no, I wouldn't agree with that at all. 11 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 2: So I think that scammers are being targeted by professional, 12 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 2: invisible criminals, and what they're doing is they're leading people 13 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: to believe that they are on a legitimate site or 14 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:40,919 Speaker 2: they are being made an offer that is legitimate. And 15 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: so at the minute, our lucklis to protections in the 16 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 2: banking system makes us easy pray. And so that's why 17 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 2: we've launched this campaign today. 18 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, the reason I'm asking you that is because 19 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: we would be talking about reimbursing, reimbursing most scam victims, wouldn't. 20 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: We Yes, it would be it would be most most 21 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: scam victims absolutely. 22 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, is that reasonable? 23 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, So before we launched this campaign, we've looked around 24 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 2: to see what's being done in other countries. So we've 25 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: looked specifically at the UK, Australia and Singapore and what 26 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,279 Speaker 2: we've seen there is that governments have taken a really 27 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: strong stance to protect their people. And so what we're 28 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 2: asking our government is just to do the same, to 29 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: offer New Zealand as the same protection so that we 30 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 2: are no longer at the mercy of these cyber criminals. 31 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: But what would we do in an instance where a 32 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: scam victim genuinely believes that they are transferring money into 33 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: something that is completely legit, the bank tells them it's 34 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: not legit, don't do it, they are determined to do it. 35 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: Whose fault is that? Well, and it goes through right 36 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: because I'm an adult and if I want to see 37 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: money to a scam, I have the right to do that, 38 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: and then afterwards I'm angry. Whose fault is that? 39 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: Well, that's a really good question. So, I mean it 40 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 2: depends all of these all of these circumstances obviously going 41 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: to be different. And if the bank can tell you 42 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: that it is a genuine scam and then you choose 43 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: to go ahead, then you because negligent. So if the 44 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: bank has used their intelligence to tell you that this 45 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: is a scammer and you still go ahead, then of 46 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: course that's on you. But most of the time that's 47 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 2: really not what's happening. These are innocent people being exploited 48 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: by professional criminals and at the minute, all the risk 49 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: is being carried by your average citizen. Nobody else is liable. 50 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 2: A'm saying that's not fair. Things We've got to change. 51 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: Are you at all worried that this may tip into 52 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: kind of an uncomfortable situation where the banks get way 53 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:26,839 Speaker 1: too up in your groul Because none of us loved 54 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: it when the banks were going through our receipts and 55 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: looking at what we was, you know, how much money 56 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: we were spending on KFC before before allowing us to 57 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: buy a house. And I just wonder if we might 58 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: be requiring the banks to get just a little too 59 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: into the weeds with us. 60 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 2: I think what we need to do is we need 61 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: to look at what's happening elsewhere. So there's something called 62 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: so A real payment network which has been in existence 63 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: in the UK since two thousand and eight. Real time 64 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 2: payments orry. We don't have that here now, and that 65 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: doesn't just make payments faster, it makes them smarter. And 66 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: so that means that there's so much information that banks 67 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: can see that can help them to determine what's going on. 68 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: So everybody has that level of I guess, just clarity 69 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: that things are safe and fine. We don't have that. 70 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 2: So at the minute, it's all on risk, and the 71 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: risk is on us. And so we're saying that because 72 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 2: of the lack of investment in the banking infrastructure and systems, 73 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: we think that the banks need to step up and 74 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 2: provide these protections that currently exist elsewhere and not here. 75 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 2: So that's what's behind our campaign's launched today. 76 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: No Fear Enough. They really need to do more. Jessica, 77 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Jessica Walker, consumer Communications and Campaigns Manager. 78 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessyl and Drive, listen live to 79 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 80 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.