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Speaker 1: Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered by
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Speaker 2: Welcome to Rugby Direct powered by Folklib Solutions, lifting you
Speaker 2: and your business to a high level. Elliott Smith with
Speaker 2: me Leam Napier from New Zealand Herald, the debates the
Speaker 2: opening week of Rugby's greatest rivalry Tour. We've moved from
Speaker 2: Cape Town to Durban as we record this, looking out
Speaker 2: over the beach and the ocean, which is magnificent to view. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: the cloud's wrong. It's been a couple of warm days
Speaker 2: since we arrived in Durban, but it's going to be
Speaker 2: rainy only for the the tour match against the Sharks
Speaker 2: as well. But we'll get onto all that in a moment. Liam,
Speaker 2: first and foremost good to have the tour underway, isn't
Speaker 2: it and have some some rugby to talk about it is.
Speaker 3: It's been highly anticipated as an Elliott's traveled a long
Speaker 3: way and I feel like it's been on the radar
Speaker 3: for a long time, so to get to Cape Town
Speaker 3: and for some of the tour party to get to
Speaker 3: the game.
Speaker 2: Special. Yeah, let's let's talk about that. You were a
Speaker 2: game day withdrawal from actually attending the opening game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was but a guesstro It's a hell of
Speaker 3: a casualty incapacitated. I won't go into too many details,
Speaker 3: but yes, on the morning of the match, it was
Speaker 3: some worse for wear and it saw a lot of
Speaker 3: the bathroom for twenty four hours and slowly coming right.
Speaker 3: So wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Shades of nineteen ninety five really, isn't it?
Speaker 2: In the All Blacks it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I might have to try track down old Susie
Speaker 3: issues that. But I did appreciate you coming and dropping
Speaker 3: me a piece of white bread and power it at
Speaker 3: my door.
Speaker 2: There was my request. It wasn't like Anna.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was in the right state. So what a trooper,
Speaker 3: what a mate there in my time of need.
Speaker 2: No pleasure? And look, let's hope that you pass the
Speaker 2: fitness teast ahead of the Sharks game on Tuesday night
Speaker 2: our time. You did watch it from your sick bed
Speaker 2: on Super Sport I assume what did you make of
Speaker 2: the All Blacks performance?
Speaker 3: It was the dustiest match report in history. And look,
Speaker 3: it was a fairly dusty old game, I think from
Speaker 3: the All Blacks in some ways expected given that that
Speaker 3: was a team that had been largely thrown together second
Speaker 3: string new combinations. But it was a real smack in
Speaker 3: the face I think for the All Blacks an upper
Speaker 3: cup on the chin. However you want to describe it,
Speaker 3: so many any things you can talk about coming to
Speaker 3: South Africa, you know what you're going to expect, but
Speaker 3: then to confront it. We talked to Sam Dowry today
Speaker 3: and he basically said that and Dave Rennie as well,
Speaker 3: that you can talk about these things but until you
Speaker 3: experience them. And almost half this All Black squad haven't
Speaker 3: experienced South African opposition or played the spring box in
Speaker 3: South Africa, and it is such a unique proposition from
Speaker 3: a physicality perspective, from a game perspective, and then you
Speaker 3: throw in Carl Dixon in the mix and it's a
Speaker 3: hell of a cocktail. So look, the scrum was a
Speaker 3: bit of a shambles, wasn't it. They didn't defend the
Speaker 3: rolling more well, they barely caught one if any high ball.
Speaker 3: Some of their catch pass skills are really ropie. I
Speaker 3: thought the bench made a big impact late in the
Speaker 3: game and they finished well to score four tries and
Speaker 3: put the Stormers away. But look, it was a fairly
Speaker 3: low bar starting point.
Speaker 2: It was. It was quite disappointing. I thought from the
Speaker 2: All Blacks. Yes, these players, a lot of them won't
Speaker 2: be in the test run on fifteen anyway, they might
Speaker 2: be on the bench options. But yeah, it probably exposed
Speaker 2: a few areas where the All Blacks are seriously deficient in,
Speaker 2: especially when you get away from the top team. And look,
Speaker 2: there are going to be injuries on this tour. We've
Speaker 2: already had a couple and then you're going to have
Speaker 2: to dig into your reserves. And I think it was
Speaker 2: some worrying trends there of players that were exposed quite
Speaker 2: deeply in certain facets of the game. The scrum was
Speaker 2: a real issue. Passily Atossi can see the three scrum
Speaker 2: penalties of the Stormer's tight head. Vernon of Tongo basically
Speaker 2: had a field day with him and passily O Tossi
Speaker 2: I think did win one back, but couldn't show the
Speaker 2: right pictures to Carle Dixon that he wanted to. So
Speaker 2: that's a concern because that is going to now put
Speaker 2: a you know, his card might be marked in terms
Speaker 2: of this tour. I know he's playing against the Sharks
Speaker 2: and coming off the bench there, but in terms of
Speaker 2: those big games on the tour, I don't know whether
Speaker 2: the All Blacks can risk bringing him back out without
Speaker 2: some serious work on whatever deficiencies we saw. So I
Speaker 2: think there's a question.
Speaker 3: Well, you're one injury away from Pasilio TOSSI been on
Speaker 3: the bench for the spring Box Test match. We've got
Speaker 3: Tyro Lomax and Fiction Newell who are serious noted scrummages,
Speaker 3: and the same goes for Ethan Degree on the loose
Speaker 3: head side. Look, he may well make adjustments and get
Speaker 3: up to speed, but that was a baptism of fire
Speaker 3: and he didn't handle it well. So he I think
Speaker 3: it is notable as well that he's been thrown out
Speaker 3: there again on the bench a matter of four days later.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And I'm not saying that it was all
Speaker 2: his fault because this is open to interpretation, and I'm
Speaker 2: sure internally in the All Blacks maybe they've seen some
Speaker 2: different things in their review that maybe they suggest that,
Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't the case that Tossi was infringing
Speaker 2: as much as Carl Dixon thought, But regardless, it becomes
Speaker 2: a theme and you start painting the pictures. It's something
Speaker 2: that referees now look out for and subconsciously, whatever it is,
Speaker 2: whether it's Carl Dix, Matthew Carley, Angus Gardner, Nika Amisha
Speaker 2: Kelly with Parsalali or Tossing out there, they'll be going
Speaker 2: in the head. This is the guy that incorrectly and
Speaker 2: illegally scrummaged three times against a franchise team, and so
Speaker 2: that will just be in the back of the head,
Speaker 2: I think. So. I'm sure they can rectify those fixes
Speaker 2: and make them sort it out, but I just wanted
Speaker 2: to worry long term, you know, on this tour, whether
Speaker 2: his card might might be marked for those big games
Speaker 2: elsewhere we're talking about the scrum. The Rolling War defense
Speaker 2: was really poor. The attacks sort of been missing for
Speaker 2: periods of the game. They struggled to get incisions with
Speaker 2: bald hand.
Speaker 3: And discipline didn't help them. They started really well and
Speaker 3: then it was six penalties and I think they conceded,
Speaker 3: and then the yellow cards came, they down to thirteen
Speaker 3: men living without the ball. The Stormers they are allowed
Speaker 3: to dictate terms through through their set piece, through the
Speaker 3: tempo of the game, so their backs didn't get to
Speaker 3: impose their style, did they, And they're on the back
Speaker 3: foot basically scrambling until I think they scored in the
Speaker 3: fifth minute and then scored their second try just before halftime,
Speaker 3: and even then by no means dominant until late in
Speaker 3: the second half, so they had to really dig deep
Speaker 3: in fight.
Speaker 2: They did have to fight, and they look better when
Speaker 2: the bench came on. They started really strong with the
Speaker 2: first five six minutes. It was all the All Blacks,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't until they went down the other end
Speaker 2: of the park and started conceding penalties at will that
Speaker 2: it sort of began to fall apart. Boden Barratt's performance.
Speaker 2: What did you make of that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, not great. Look, Boden hadn't played for almost two months,
Speaker 3: and I'm not making excuses for him, but it was
Speaker 3: playing helps from a rhythm and a confidence perspective. But
Speaker 3: it did feel like a continuation of what we saw
Speaker 3: from him at the Blues this year, which was quite hesitant.
Speaker 3: I don't know whether he's lost a bit of confidence
Speaker 3: in his body. He just doesn't seem to challenge the line.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of shuffling. Even early in the match
Speaker 3: when the All Blacks made breaks, he put a little
Speaker 3: kick and they were entering the Stormers twenty two. Little
Speaker 3: eras creeping into his game. There was the second half
Speaker 3: restart that went short. He grabbed an opposition player in
Speaker 3: the air, gave away a penalty. There there was the
Speaker 3: telling one where the high ball he went up and
Speaker 3: just looked at it and didn't contest it. So look,
Speaker 3: I think worrying signs. I think that was his big chance.
Speaker 3: He waited all July, didn't get an opportunity. This was
Speaker 3: such a long time coming, And to be honest, I
Speaker 3: was I thought Yakim that the twenty year old on
Speaker 3: debut for the Stormers outplayed him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he did too, and it was notable.
Speaker 2: And yes, the tide was turning at the point of
Speaker 2: the game where Josh Jacob came on, But it was
Speaker 2: noticeable having Jacob on the impact he had, just in
Speaker 2: terms of straightening the attack a little bit and being
Speaker 2: decisive and knowing what he was wanting to do. Maybe
Speaker 2: gouldkicking aside, but I thought it was just noticeable and
Speaker 2: it's hard to real too much into it, as I said,
Speaker 2: because it was with the Stormers tiring and the all
Speaker 2: Backs were getting on top at that point of the game.
Speaker 2: But it did just feel like I'm trying to think
Speaker 2: exactly when he came on, it was I think after
Speaker 2: the All Backs had gone maybe twenty one to fourteen up,
Speaker 2: but it felt like the attack was just straightened out
Speaker 2: a little bit once Drakan came on the part.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. And look, Dave Rien has been
Speaker 3: open about the fact that Boden Barrett started this first
Speaker 3: game against the Stormers, Ruben Love's going to start against
Speaker 3: the Sharks, and Josh Jacob is probably going to get
Speaker 3: a crack against the Bulls. But that wasn't the performance
Speaker 3: I think Boden would have wanted. And if Bill Blacks,
Speaker 3: I feel like protecting him a wee bit at the
Speaker 3: moment with their public missiting around it. And he's obviously
Speaker 3: an experienced member of the squad and I'm sure he's
Speaker 3: doing a lot of mentoring behind the scenes, But from
Speaker 3: a pure performance perspective, I think that that was not
Speaker 3: the standard we've come to expect from Bowden, and you know,
Speaker 3: we probably haven't seen the level that we expect from him,
Speaker 3: certainly this year.
Speaker 2: Well Man, he'll know that, like he's a quality player,
Speaker 2: and he'll know that he isn't that that wasn't the
Speaker 2: best he can deliver. The question is whether agains another
Speaker 2: opportunity to show that, and I'm not sure that he will,
Speaker 2: because speaking he will probably come off the bench, maybe
Speaker 2: against the Bulls, perhaps spitballing here here.
Speaker 3: Perhaps play against the Lions. The only other point I
Speaker 3: would make is there weren't too many players in that
Speaker 3: game from a little black perspective that actually enhearance their claims.
Speaker 3: From a test perspective, I would say Peter Luckeye was outstanding.
Speaker 3: Anton Lena Brown was busy. He got mad of the
Speaker 3: match even though he got the yellow card. Fabian Holland
Speaker 3: got two taling line out steels, one when the All
Speaker 3: Blacks were under massive heat and the other directly led
Speaker 3: to a try. I think it was for Josh Morby.
Speaker 3: But outside of that, Riquewan.
Speaker 2: He was I thought Antonine signal was good again.
Speaker 3: But on the whole there's not too many players that
Speaker 3: you would say you put some real and pressure on
Speaker 3: the incumbent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder whether I mean it's been well telegraphed
Speaker 2: at the All Blacks have pretty much had the first
Speaker 2: Test team locked in played and I'm not saying this
Speaker 2: they weren't playing with that in mind. But I don't
Speaker 2: know it Just you know, when you when you say
Speaker 2: that the first Test team is locked in, hard to
Speaker 2: put your hand up when you are on the outside
Speaker 2: looking in already. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, potentially, And look, there's a number of factors. They
Speaker 3: were under massive pressure in that game. They didn't have
Speaker 3: it all their own way, and they didn't adjust to
Speaker 3: Carl Dixon either. I think that was a massive part
Speaker 3: of the lack of flow and how the All Blacks
Speaker 3: wanted to play and look good. That's a reality they're
Speaker 3: going to have to call. Dixon is going to be
Speaker 3: in charge of Baltimore, so there's no getting away from it.
Speaker 2: That's right. I don't think Carl Dixon is a t
Speaker 2: standard referee, but he has been awarded these matches, so
Speaker 2: you have to find a way to get up to
Speaker 2: speed with Carl Dixon. He operates some bizarre lines at
Speaker 2: the moment, held.
Speaker 3: What do you make it that penalty trow for Josh Molby.
Speaker 2: Like again, Carl Dixon referees the game to the letter
Speaker 2: of the law, but it's like an aligen has come
Speaker 2: down read the World Rugby rule balok and gone, okay,
Speaker 2: I've put this into my brain. Now I don't know
Speaker 2: how to do it. He's this is a blog that
Speaker 2: played professional rugby, yet he seems to have no feel
Speaker 2: for the game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's overly officious, massively right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look he is I'm sure impressing world rugby
Speaker 2: bosses because he does catch everything that they're after. But
Speaker 2: I you know, he played close to two hundred games.
Speaker 2: I think it was for Harlequins maybe, but you wouldn't
Speaker 2: know it. Like he referees the game like it is
Speaker 2: his first time seeing it and he's following the exact
Speaker 2: letter of the world law. But again, I can moan
Speaker 2: about it on this podcast, and I will, But if
Speaker 2: you're the all blacks he's got, then they're not going
Speaker 2: to change the referee appointments. So you've got to deal
Speaker 2: with the way that he's going to referee, the way
Speaker 2: that Matthew Carly's going to referee, the way that Nika
Speaker 2: Amashakelly is going to referee in the way the Angers
Speaker 2: Gardener referees. And I think, going back to my point
Speaker 2: from last week, it would be easy if Carl Dixon
Speaker 2: was referee for every match of the series, or whoever
Speaker 2: might be.
Speaker 3: No one wants to see.
Speaker 2: No, but you would at least get used to knowing
Speaker 2: which way the game is going to be. It's just
Speaker 2: it goes in wild different areas depending on who's got
Speaker 2: the whistle. And I don't think it's healthy for the
Speaker 2: sport and world rugby is asleep at the wheel because
Speaker 2: they've got no desire to change it. Don't seem interested
Speaker 2: in the fact that this is supposed to be an
Speaker 2: entertainment product. They've absolutely washed their hands of anything to
Speaker 2: do with the entertainment product. Test level and then the
Speaker 2: TMO intervening every five minutes and the game as well.
Speaker 2: It was just this, This rugby's greatest rivalry is built
Speaker 2: on the tradition, but it's also built on entertainment and
Speaker 2: the two best supposed team at playing rugby, and yet
Speaker 2: the refereeing was a distraction from that. And this is
Speaker 2: the point that rugby has got to now, is that
Speaker 2: everyone tries to sell this as a form of entertainment,
Speaker 2: but World Rugby and the referees don't seem to listen.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's gonna be a long
Speaker 2: tour if this is the kind of refereeing standard that
Speaker 2: we're used to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't want to be talking about this the
Speaker 3: whole time.
Speaker 2: No, but I don't, I don't, Reginuely don't.
Speaker 3: But you're rights. It's a frustration that we don't want
Speaker 3: these referees to be focal figures, but it is incumbent
Speaker 3: on the All Blacks to adjust.
Speaker 2: Indeed, like let's move on from that. Some news out
Speaker 2: of the All Blacks camp today that Billy Procter is
Speaker 2: heading home from the tour. Suspected to be the case
Speaker 2: after we saw him on Friday nights our time his
Speaker 2: shoulder arm was it a slang, didn't look good and
Speaker 2: Dave Rennick confirming it's a fractured shoulder blade. So he's
Speaker 2: going to be out for ten to twelve weeks, which
Speaker 2: you look at this point in time, that's anywhere between
Speaker 2: two to three months, which could even be the end
Speaker 2: of your tour.
Speaker 3: Pretty much the end of your season. Yeah, two to
Speaker 3: three months.
Speaker 2: I think, so you rehab it back. He's back here, I.
Speaker 3: Think he will struggle with back. So devastating blow for
Speaker 3: Billy first and foremost, isn't it. This is the once
Speaker 3: in a lifetime tour. And look, he's not going to
Speaker 3: be the last we've had George Bell. They're going to
Speaker 3: be on the same flight home and we've had one game.
Speaker 3: This is going to be a hugely arduous tour that's
Speaker 3: going to claim many casualties. Yeah, it's a blow for
Speaker 3: the all Becks because I think while Billy hasn't reached
Speaker 3: great heights, he still has test experience. And it depletes
Speaker 3: your depth in their midfield, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: It does? And you know there, we're going to be
Speaker 2: two games down by the time they get a replacement over,
Speaker 2: so you've still got six games to go. The question
Speaker 2: is do they go for a lightfu light midfield placement
Speaker 2: or do they go for Richie Moong? And you asked
Speaker 2: the question today whether Mona's in the conversation, and Dave
Speaker 2: Rennie chuckled and said, we'll go through the process, which
Speaker 2: to me suggests that he is very much in the
Speaker 2: picture for coming over and replacing Billy. Prop to would
Speaker 2: that be the right thing for the All Blacks to
Speaker 2: do well?
Speaker 3: First of all, midfield is not an area of great
Speaker 3: depth and he's Yellow Rugby, I don't think at the moment.
Speaker 3: But they do have enough cover within that All Black
Speaker 3: squad to get through this tour, right Jordi, Barrett, Quinte,
Speaker 3: Pier Antonina Brown, Riquewanny Tava Tavanawa. Those aren't by any
Speaker 3: count established options, but there is enough cover there. So look,
Speaker 3: Dave Renie's made. And then from a midfield perspective, you've
Speaker 3: had a j Lamb Branden in or David Heavily's still playing,
Speaker 3: but he's going offshore as well. So there's number of former.
Speaker 2: Or Blacks in all cloud yep.
Speaker 3: Guys on the fringe leaving. So depth isn't great there
Speaker 3: and so for me, there's no obvious next in line replacement.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's David Hevilli, maybe you bring him over even
Speaker 3: though he's leaving. But look, Dave Renie's made no secret
Speaker 3: of the fact that he wanted Muwanga here from the outset.
Speaker 3: He brought him into the pre Super Rugby Final camp.
Speaker 3: He publicly stated that he wanted to get Muanglan and
Speaker 3: use him in the opening tour game against the Stormers.
Speaker 3: So look, I think in my mind there's no question
Speaker 3: that really asked the question of New Zealand rugby. Richie
Speaker 3: has now played two games for Canterbury. Unfortunately one of
Speaker 3: those was wrestling the raanfully shield away.
Speaker 2: Hopefully have you brought it up before I did?
Speaker 3: That's great from mighty Otago. I'm not sure how much.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen the game. I don't know how much
Speaker 3: of a role we played in that. But look, regardless,
Speaker 3: he's surely he's like ticked that box now right And
Speaker 3: the only question I would have is is it a
Speaker 3: bit fascical that the All Blacks have selected four playmakers
Speaker 3: and they're all still fits and you replace a midfielder
Speaker 3: with ten.
Speaker 2: Well, they're replaced Morne Nadawa with Ethan black Hair at
Speaker 2: twenty three World Cup Spring Walks replaced Malcolm Marx with
Speaker 2: Hondra Pollard the twenty three World Cup.
Speaker 3: It's a coach is progative, isn't it?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? If they yeah, I mean, if they want to
Speaker 2: bring him in, are you? I think in the absence
Speaker 2: of equality midfielder and I can't think of the next
Speaker 2: player in line, you know, they had Cooper Cooper Roberts
Speaker 2: and Camp you know, as a training partner in Christy.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's barely played super rugular so you couldn't
Speaker 2: bring him into the mix. So I can't think of
Speaker 2: a quality player to bring in. And so yeah, OK,
Speaker 2: I'll be comfortable enough with them bringing Richie Wallinger. And
Speaker 2: you think, as you said, he Dave Ready talked about
Speaker 2: he was planning to use me against the storm as
Speaker 2: if he was able to be selected, and you work
Speaker 2: your way backwards and go well, that kind of moved
Speaker 2: Josh Jacob probably into the selection and touring party because
Speaker 2: they couldn't take Richie Wong and working your way backwards
Speaker 2: from the first Test side was the kind of players
Speaker 2: they needed. So look the doors opened out for him
Speaker 2: to get there. Theilbacks are on a limited runway to
Speaker 2: the Rugbill Cup under this management. It's the case it
Speaker 2: needs must be.
Speaker 3: I think it in Ore, Yeah, I think there's the
Speaker 3: point is you're paying Richard m Wang a hell of
Speaker 3: a lot of rugby right money right now to be
Speaker 3: playing provincial rugby and as you say, the runway to
Speaker 3: the World Cup, this guy's going to be at the
Speaker 3: World Cup. He needs to be involved. Really, you're shooting
Speaker 3: yourself in the foot here. I understand the stipulations that
Speaker 3: Mwanga didn't sign for two years and so that stipulates
Speaker 3: that he should be playing a full NPC campaign, but
Speaker 3: just the optics around it and all the gray areas
Speaker 3: around sabbaticals, I mean, just just sign it off, you know,
Speaker 3: and if you have to bring over another midfielder at
Speaker 3: a later date, so beer, it's cut before the horse
Speaker 3: a little bit, but I don't see that changing the
Speaker 3: complexion of the first Test team. Maybe Muanga comes into
Speaker 3: the picture later in the tour, but Rennie's point all along,
Speaker 3: I think, has been to get him involved and to
Speaker 3: get him up to speed from a game plan perspective,
Speaker 3: and yeah, just utilize him. Well, he's wasted playing for
Speaker 3: Vinci Rugby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look there's a big Shield defense coming up next weekend,
Speaker 2: so we can flight they bring him over you want,
Speaker 2: by a plenty. I'm sure our producer Mark would want
Speaker 2: that as well. Yeah. Look, I think these eligibility laws
Speaker 2: need to be simplified. It doesn't make sense to the
Speaker 2: common fan that he is playing for Cannaby in the NBC.
Speaker 2: There's the big tourk on over here that they've piped
Speaker 2: up to the nth degree and Richard mccaugh is not
Speaker 2: Richard Walk. Well, get Richie McCord back. Richie Walk is
Speaker 2: not playing and you know the bigger one. So we'll
Speaker 2: wait and see on that front.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if it doesn't transpire, it's not it's gonna
Speaker 3: be an ongoing conversation that anytime a bat goes down,
Speaker 3: it's gonna be like, well, Dave, get a swing at
Speaker 3: that time.
Speaker 2: Probably better just to get ripped the band aid off
Speaker 2: and get him at the camp team named to play
Speaker 2: the Shucks by Dave Rennie as well. I don't know
Speaker 2: if he caught a shadow test side, given there are
Speaker 2: niggles with Torol Lomax, Zavi Amia, Will Jordan, Cody Taylor's
Speaker 2: still injured, Ardie sa Viga not here but close to
Speaker 2: a shadow test side. I suppose any surprises in the mix.
Speaker 3: For you there, I don't think so that is absolutely
Speaker 3: a shadow test team without those guys who Dave Rennie
Speaker 3: said today will luckily all be fit for the next
Speaker 3: tour game against the Bulls. Will Jordan's nigglie back, which
Speaker 3: was potentially worrying, but he didn't seem too concerned about it.
Speaker 3: No major surprises. I think Luke jacob and captaining the
Speaker 3: team certainly signals his rise and the ranks under any
Speaker 3: As you pointed out today at the presser, Jacobson is
Speaker 3: a guy that's been in and out of this All
Speaker 3: Black team prior to this regime. He's come and he's
Speaker 3: nailed his chance as starting open side, and now he's
Speaker 3: taken on the captaincy for this game. I think some
Speaker 3: players have a lot to gain from this match. I'm
Speaker 3: very intrigued to see Kyle Preston get a start. I
Speaker 3: haven't seen a lot of them. Wasn't sighted in July.
Speaker 3: Came off the bench against the Stormers. I am of
Speaker 3: the view that he should be backing up cam Roy guards.
Speaker 3: I think it will be good to see Finga and off.
Speaker 3: We haven't cited him since five or ten minutes off
Speaker 3: the bench in that first Test. Had a shoulder injury,
Speaker 3: he was sick. So intrigued to see how he handles
Speaker 3: that high ball, in particular Wallas tit pulled out late
Speaker 3: against the Stormers. Now gets a chance. He's he needs
Speaker 3: a big performance and maybe even a Caleb Clark. I
Speaker 3: don't think that back three is totally locked in yet.
Speaker 3: I didn't think Josh Morby had had his best display
Speaker 3: against the Stormers, but he's a guy that is certainly
Speaker 3: proficient under the high wall.
Speaker 2: He is indeed yet looked the number of players still missing,
Speaker 2: but you can see the the first choice nature of
Speaker 2: this team shining through in the players that have been selected. Look,
Speaker 2: Luke Jacobson played that his stocks have risen incredibly this
Speaker 2: year with the appointment really of Dave Rennie's coach. I
Speaker 2: mean that's been one of the main reasons that he's
Speaker 2: playing as much rugby now in All Blacks Captain, big
Speaker 2: opportunity I suppose for him. Look, he has gone you
Speaker 2: would think start that first Test, but I think it's
Speaker 2: another chance for Luke Jacobson just to get some more
Speaker 2: game time in the All Blacks Jersey. I agree about
Speaker 2: Kyle Preston really looking forward to seeing what he can
Speaker 2: do with me. He had a rough souper rugby season,
Speaker 2: was on the pine every game he played for the Crusaders,
Speaker 2: and I think was maybe injury in the one game
Speaker 2: where they chose to rotate Hoth him out of their
Speaker 2: twenty three and they called on Louis Chapman. So he
Speaker 2: just didn't have much luck this year and hasn't played
Speaker 2: a lot of rugby, so big chance for him to
Speaker 2: come on this week. The locks are interesting once again,
Speaker 2: you know that's real tight squeeze ahead of that first
Speaker 2: match as well, and you look at the bench and
Speaker 2: SIMSI tu law a really fascinated to see how he
Speaker 2: goes with the first taste of quasi international rugby and
Speaker 2: saying what kind of impacts he can make because I
Speaker 2: think he's a dead set, really exciting player.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a good point. He's one guy that could
Speaker 3: be a massive mover very quickly if I hope he
Speaker 3: gets some genuine game time half an hour off the
Speaker 3: bench because he could be a real weapon. You think
Speaker 3: about we talked about off here about a guy like
Speaker 3: lestifying a Nuoku and the ability to inject some genuine
Speaker 3: size and physicality off the bench against the box. In particular,
Speaker 3: there is you know, oh substitute for size at times,
Speaker 3: and Samisi has that. So I'm very intrigued to see
Speaker 3: him unleashed on the stage.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. The other point tonight as well, can Roy
Speaker 2: guard named on the bench? I suspect this would probably
Speaker 2: be the last time we see him before the opening test.
Speaker 2: Can't see them playing him against the Bulls. In fact,
Speaker 2: there's been a bit of shadow that Dave Rennie is
Speaker 2: going to use a six to two bench against well
Speaker 2: he's running out of time now to use them one
Speaker 2: of the other two two games, so probably against the
Speaker 2: balls then. So maybe you look at a Ratama starting
Speaker 2: in a carter off the bench.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're you're protecting your most influential set
Speaker 3: and just don't risk it.
Speaker 2: Don't risk it, don't risk the biscuit. Yeah, so we'll
Speaker 2: see how that unfolds. But otherwise, yeah, close to a
Speaker 2: shadow test side. So what are the expectations? Given we
Speaker 2: had the Stormers game in mind and the changes that
Speaker 2: have been made since by Dave Rennie, you'd expect a
Speaker 2: much better and more cohesive performance given a lot of
Speaker 2: these players have played together, even you know, Oppressed in
Speaker 2: Love combination has played together for Wellington the NPC level.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, Look, this team is probably only going to
Speaker 3: have two trainings together, but they have by and large
Speaker 3: played a lot together. Look at the midfield, Jordy Barrett, Quinte,
Speaker 3: Pier Ruben Love. Yeah, you've got your two of your
Speaker 3: best props there, so that should shore up the scrum.
Speaker 3: I think, vastly improved performance. It is going to be
Speaker 3: intriguing to see how the All Blacks deal with the rain.
Speaker 3: It's meant to chuck it down. Yeah, so that will
Speaker 3: potentially impact their handling. You'd imagine the Sharks will kick
Speaker 3: a lot to them, but this is always This is
Speaker 3: a gonna be a second string Sharks side, Like the
Speaker 3: Stormers were playing out of season, and I think it
Speaker 3: is reflective of where they're at that they've got Marnano
Speaker 3: on the bench. You know how old's not enough for
Speaker 3: forty four look amazing servants All Black legends still clearly
Speaker 3: got a bit of guess in the tank. But I'm
Speaker 3: on the fence about this. I think there's a case
Speaker 3: to be made that he's preventing a pretty special opportunity
Speaker 3: for a young or old South African player who may
Speaker 3: never get the chance to play against the All Blacks
Speaker 3: who are at this level.
Speaker 2: Again, Yeah, Scott publicity stunt written all over it to
Speaker 2: try and get a few people more through the gates
Speaker 2: tomorrow night here in Durbin. I'm not specifically against it,
Speaker 2: but I just Yeah, it is a little crass, a
Speaker 2: little techy. You know. It's one thing. You think that's
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight when they played months to the
Speaker 2: All Blacks and Wroughte, the Pooky and dug Aulett and
Speaker 2: I think maybe one other whose name is skaps me
Speaker 2: now is did Ahaka against it. It feels like they're
Speaker 2: trying to engineer that. But those players played for that club.
Speaker 2: You know, they were squad members and look, I know
Speaker 2: Man already has signed for them, but it's more in
Speaker 2: a coaching role and just there's a there's a sense
Speaker 2: of just a publicity stunt there and a little bit tacky.
Speaker 2: Having said that, people will be interested in it, and
Speaker 2: you know it's remarkable that he's still going at forty four.
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, people will, I guess the back end of
Speaker 3: the game. You think about none who coming up against
Speaker 3: Tavi Tabanaway. There's some big body contact coming there. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I just think if I was in the shoes of
Speaker 3: a young South African, I think about what young Jakim
Speaker 3: twenty year old, and you know he's going to remember
Speaker 3: that experience for the rest of his life, coming up
Speaker 3: against his idol Boden Barretts. So to rob a player
Speaker 3: of that opportunity seems a wee bit wrong, But yeah,
Speaker 3: we live in a financial world, don't we.
Speaker 2: We do. Indeed, the spring Box playing Argentina their final
Speaker 2: game before the start of this four test series over
Speaker 2: I po sidi is I'm convincing from the Springbox seventeen
Speaker 2: ten fair to say the game didn't rise to any
Speaker 2: great heights. Watched this at a sports club here in
Speaker 2: Durban last night with a parochial as you'd expect a
Speaker 2: spring Box crowd. I don't think overly happy with the
Speaker 2: way they played, but wins a winner's a win, and
Speaker 2: I suspect they've left a bit in the tank and
Speaker 2: a bit in the russy playbook as they prepare for
Speaker 2: the All Blacks.
Speaker 3: Now, Yes, indeed, I think there's a bit of shadow
Speaker 3: boxing going on prior to these tests, aren't there. Look
Speaker 3: the Box got ebbin Est a bit back and Sasha
Speaker 3: the Golden Boy at ten. But look, this match was
Speaker 3: left a lot to be desired. It was a kick
Speaker 3: fest eighty kicks. The spring Box defended well, the attack
Speaker 3: was pretty poor. I thought a second string Pumas team
Speaker 3: put them under a lot of heat, but not much
Speaker 3: to take out of that game that will carry forwards.
Speaker 3: The big talking point being Seecalis's injury hamstring recurrence that
Speaker 3: could potentially rule them out of this greatest rivalry tour.
Speaker 3: How much of a blow would that be.
Speaker 2: I think it'd be a huge way. He'd still be
Speaker 2: around the squad, and what a leader and what an
Speaker 2: inspiration he is to that spring Box team, and I
Speaker 2: think not having him out of the park I think
Speaker 2: would be a loss for him. But the kind of
Speaker 2: depth that Russy Erasthmus's cultivators, he'll be confident that it's
Speaker 2: next man up and whoever he puts into that role.
Speaker 2: I was impressed by Hunnikhm was outstanding. Yeah, but then
Speaker 2: you got you know, Jasper Visa and a number eight.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure technically whether Hunnikham could move to open side.
Speaker 2: I'm not really sure about, you know, his versatility there.
Speaker 2: But he was impressed him. So they'll find someone in
Speaker 2: the spring Box.
Speaker 3: There's no shortage of depth, but from a charismatic point
Speaker 3: of view, inspiration pretty hard to replace.
Speaker 2: There certainly is a couple more things before we wrap
Speaker 2: up the r his shield heading home.
Speaker 3: I thought we mentioned that already.
Speaker 2: No, I think we should got to a little more death,
Speaker 2: not that I've actually seen the full game, but just
Speaker 2: specially when the good guys win, isn't it and the
Speaker 2: redfully shield heading to its rightful place.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was over. The sickness starting to
Speaker 3: come back, starting to come back.
Speaker 2: Anything you want to say, congratulations.
Speaker 3: Or no, no, done done, all done on that front,
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: Okay, we will should be done, all done on the
Speaker 2: podcast as well. That'll do us. We'll be back in
Speaker 2: a few days time, once we've got the Sharks game
Speaker 2: in the books and we head to Johannesburg to prepare
Speaker 2: for the Bulls in Pretoria. Legam, continue on your path
Speaker 2: to good health. Appreciate your time.
Speaker 3: Yes, thanks for your services, and good luck to the
Speaker 3: bad plenty.
Speaker 2: Don't give me that Marke Kelly for producing. We appreciate
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