WEBVTT - Rugby Direct Episode 249: Stormers Review, Proctor Blow & Sharks Changes 0:00:09.093 --> 0:00:12.693 You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow 0:00:12.773 --> 0:00:18.053 this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio. 0:00:19.493 --> 0:00:22.373 Straight down the Middle Truck Sky. 0:00:24.013 --> 0:00:32.533 Try to get inside the game from every angle. It's 0:00:32.653 --> 0:00:36.453 Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered by 0:00:36.493 --> 0:00:37.253 News Talks EDB. 0:00:37.533 --> 0:00:40.853 Welcome to Rugby Direct powered by Folklib Solutions, lifting you 0:00:40.893 --> 0:00:45.333 and your business to a high level. Elliott Smith with 0:00:45.373 --> 0:00:48.813 me Leam Napier from New Zealand Herald, the debates the 0:00:48.893 --> 0:00:53.453 opening week of Rugby's greatest rivalry Tour. We've moved from 0:00:53.453 --> 0:00:57.133 Cape Town to Durban as we record this, looking out 0:00:57.413 --> 0:01:02.493 over the beach and the ocean, which is magnificent to view. Unfortunately, 0:01:02.493 --> 0:01:04.693 the cloud's wrong. It's been a couple of warm days 0:01:05.133 --> 0:01:07.613 since we arrived in Durban, but it's going to be 0:01:07.693 --> 0:01:11.493 rainy only for the the tour match against the Sharks 0:01:11.533 --> 0:01:14.413 as well. But we'll get onto all that in a moment. Liam, 0:01:14.413 --> 0:01:18.413 first and foremost good to have the tour underway, isn't 0:01:18.453 --> 0:01:21.333 it and have some some rugby to talk about it is. 0:01:21.373 --> 0:01:25.053 It's been highly anticipated as an Elliott's traveled a long 0:01:25.053 --> 0:01:28.133 way and I feel like it's been on the radar 0:01:28.213 --> 0:01:30.653 for a long time, so to get to Cape Town 0:01:31.613 --> 0:01:34.333 and for some of the tour party to get to 0:01:34.373 --> 0:01:34.893 the game. 0:01:36.733 --> 0:01:41.813 Special. Yeah, let's let's talk about that. You were a 0:01:41.853 --> 0:01:44.773 game day withdrawal from actually attending the opening game. 0:01:45.253 --> 0:01:49.173 Yeah, it was but a guesstro It's a hell of 0:01:49.173 --> 0:01:53.093 a casualty incapacitated. I won't go into too many details, 0:01:53.133 --> 0:01:55.453 but yes, on the morning of the match, it was 0:01:55.493 --> 0:01:57.933 some worse for wear and it saw a lot of 0:01:57.933 --> 0:02:01.493 the bathroom for twenty four hours and slowly coming right. 0:02:01.613 --> 0:02:04.133 So wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. 0:02:04.253 --> 0:02:06.813 Yeah, the Shades of nineteen ninety five really, isn't it? 0:02:06.853 --> 0:02:07.893 In the All Blacks it is. 0:02:08.453 --> 0:02:12.813 Yeah, I might have to try track down old Susie 0:02:12.973 --> 0:02:17.293 issues that. But I did appreciate you coming and dropping 0:02:17.293 --> 0:02:19.453 me a piece of white bread and power it at 0:02:19.453 --> 0:02:19.853 my door. 0:02:20.093 --> 0:02:22.053 There was my request. It wasn't like Anna. 0:02:22.653 --> 0:02:25.333 Yeah, I was in the right state. So what a trooper, 0:02:25.893 --> 0:02:28.333 what a mate there in my time of need. 0:02:28.253 --> 0:02:31.653 No pleasure? And look, let's hope that you pass the 0:02:31.653 --> 0:02:34.933 fitness teast ahead of the Sharks game on Tuesday night 0:02:35.173 --> 0:02:37.453 our time. You did watch it from your sick bed 0:02:38.853 --> 0:02:41.973 on Super Sport I assume what did you make of 0:02:42.173 --> 0:02:43.213 the All Blacks performance? 0:02:44.093 --> 0:02:47.213 It was the dustiest match report in history. And look, 0:02:47.253 --> 0:02:48.973 it was a fairly dusty old game, I think from 0:02:49.013 --> 0:02:54.253 the All Blacks in some ways expected given that that 0:02:54.413 --> 0:02:57.253 was a team that had been largely thrown together second 0:02:57.293 --> 0:03:01.373 string new combinations. But it was a real smack in 0:03:01.413 --> 0:03:03.573 the face I think for the All Blacks an upper 0:03:03.613 --> 0:03:07.813 cup on the chin. However you want to describe it, 0:03:07.933 --> 0:03:10.493 so many any things you can talk about coming to 0:03:10.533 --> 0:03:13.093 South Africa, you know what you're going to expect, but 0:03:13.133 --> 0:03:15.693 then to confront it. We talked to Sam Dowry today 0:03:15.693 --> 0:03:18.293 and he basically said that and Dave Rennie as well, 0:03:18.533 --> 0:03:20.333 that you can talk about these things but until you 0:03:20.373 --> 0:03:24.613 experience them. And almost half this All Black squad haven't 0:03:24.653 --> 0:03:27.493 experienced South African opposition or played the spring box in 0:03:27.533 --> 0:03:29.893 South Africa, and it is such a unique proposition from 0:03:29.933 --> 0:03:34.053 a physicality perspective, from a game perspective, and then you 0:03:34.173 --> 0:03:37.133 throw in Carl Dixon in the mix and it's a 0:03:37.133 --> 0:03:39.413 hell of a cocktail. So look, the scrum was a 0:03:39.413 --> 0:03:41.213 bit of a shambles, wasn't it. They didn't defend the 0:03:41.293 --> 0:03:44.773 rolling more well, they barely caught one if any high ball. 0:03:45.453 --> 0:03:48.693 Some of their catch pass skills are really ropie. I 0:03:48.693 --> 0:03:50.453 thought the bench made a big impact late in the 0:03:50.493 --> 0:03:53.933 game and they finished well to score four tries and 0:03:54.693 --> 0:03:58.933 put the Stormers away. But look, it was a fairly 0:03:59.013 --> 0:04:00.293 low bar starting point. 0:04:00.533 --> 0:04:03.173 It was. It was quite disappointing. I thought from the 0:04:03.213 --> 0:04:06.653 All Blacks. Yes, these players, a lot of them won't 0:04:06.653 --> 0:04:09.093 be in the test run on fifteen anyway, they might 0:04:09.093 --> 0:04:14.013 be on the bench options. But yeah, it probably exposed 0:04:14.053 --> 0:04:16.973 a few areas where the All Blacks are seriously deficient in, 0:04:19.253 --> 0:04:21.093 especially when you get away from the top team. And look, 0:04:21.133 --> 0:04:22.973 there are going to be injuries on this tour. We've 0:04:23.013 --> 0:04:25.613 already had a couple and then you're going to have 0:04:25.653 --> 0:04:27.293 to dig into your reserves. And I think it was 0:04:27.333 --> 0:04:31.933 some worrying trends there of players that were exposed quite 0:04:31.933 --> 0:04:35.613 deeply in certain facets of the game. The scrum was 0:04:35.613 --> 0:04:38.493 a real issue. Passily Atossi can see the three scrum 0:04:38.573 --> 0:04:42.733 penalties of the Stormer's tight head. Vernon of Tongo basically 0:04:42.773 --> 0:04:45.613 had a field day with him and passily O Tossi 0:04:45.653 --> 0:04:47.653 I think did win one back, but couldn't show the 0:04:47.693 --> 0:04:52.133 right pictures to Carle Dixon that he wanted to. So 0:04:52.253 --> 0:04:55.933 that's a concern because that is going to now put 0:04:55.973 --> 0:04:58.013 a you know, his card might be marked in terms 0:04:58.053 --> 0:05:00.413 of this tour. I know he's playing against the Sharks 0:05:00.453 --> 0:05:02.653 and coming off the bench there, but in terms of 0:05:02.693 --> 0:05:04.253 those big games on the tour, I don't know whether 0:05:04.253 --> 0:05:07.533 the All Blacks can risk bringing him back out without 0:05:07.573 --> 0:05:11.933 some serious work on whatever deficiencies we saw. So I 0:05:11.933 --> 0:05:12.653 think there's a question. 0:05:13.013 --> 0:05:16.173 Well, you're one injury away from Pasilio TOSSI been on 0:05:16.213 --> 0:05:19.333 the bench for the spring Box Test match. We've got 0:05:19.493 --> 0:05:25.893 Tyro Lomax and Fiction Newell who are serious noted scrummages, 0:05:25.933 --> 0:05:28.573 and the same goes for Ethan Degree on the loose 0:05:28.613 --> 0:05:32.693 head side. Look, he may well make adjustments and get 0:05:32.773 --> 0:05:35.733 up to speed, but that was a baptism of fire 0:05:35.773 --> 0:05:38.573 and he didn't handle it well. So he I think 0:05:38.613 --> 0:05:40.733 it is notable as well that he's been thrown out 0:05:40.773 --> 0:05:43.533 there again on the bench a matter of four days later. 0:05:43.653 --> 0:05:46.373 Yeah, exactly. And I'm not saying that it was all 0:05:46.413 --> 0:05:48.773 his fault because this is open to interpretation, and I'm 0:05:48.773 --> 0:05:51.253 sure internally in the All Blacks maybe they've seen some 0:05:51.293 --> 0:05:54.053 different things in their review that maybe they suggest that, 0:05:54.213 --> 0:05:56.893 you know, it wasn't the case that Tossi was infringing 0:05:56.933 --> 0:06:00.733 as much as Carl Dixon thought, But regardless, it becomes 0:06:00.733 --> 0:06:02.773 a theme and you start painting the pictures. It's something 0:06:02.813 --> 0:06:07.013 that referees now look out for and subconsciously, whatever it is, 0:06:07.413 --> 0:06:11.173 whether it's Carl Dix, Matthew Carley, Angus Gardner, Nika Amisha 0:06:11.253 --> 0:06:15.373 Kelly with Parsalali or Tossing out there, they'll be going 0:06:15.413 --> 0:06:17.533 in the head. This is the guy that incorrectly and 0:06:17.653 --> 0:06:22.173 illegally scrummaged three times against a franchise team, and so 0:06:22.253 --> 0:06:23.653 that will just be in the back of the head, 0:06:23.653 --> 0:06:26.813 I think. So. I'm sure they can rectify those fixes 0:06:26.853 --> 0:06:28.653 and make them sort it out, but I just wanted 0:06:28.653 --> 0:06:31.973 to worry long term, you know, on this tour, whether 0:06:32.013 --> 0:06:35.013 his card might might be marked for those big games 0:06:35.653 --> 0:06:38.893 elsewhere we're talking about the scrum. The Rolling War defense 0:06:38.973 --> 0:06:42.733 was really poor. The attacks sort of been missing for 0:06:42.813 --> 0:06:46.093 periods of the game. They struggled to get incisions with 0:06:46.213 --> 0:06:47.093 bald hand. 0:06:49.053 --> 0:06:51.693 And discipline didn't help them. They started really well and 0:06:51.733 --> 0:06:54.533 then it was six penalties and I think they conceded, 0:06:54.533 --> 0:06:56.493 and then the yellow cards came, they down to thirteen 0:06:56.533 --> 0:06:59.213 men living without the ball. The Stormers they are allowed 0:06:59.213 --> 0:07:02.693 to dictate terms through through their set piece, through the 0:07:02.733 --> 0:07:04.933 tempo of the game, so their backs didn't get to 0:07:05.813 --> 0:07:08.693 impose their style, did they, And they're on the back 0:07:08.693 --> 0:07:13.773 foot basically scrambling until I think they scored in the 0:07:13.773 --> 0:07:16.693 fifth minute and then scored their second try just before halftime, 0:07:17.413 --> 0:07:22.053 and even then by no means dominant until late in 0:07:22.053 --> 0:07:24.173 the second half, so they had to really dig deep 0:07:24.213 --> 0:07:24.613 in fight. 0:07:24.893 --> 0:07:26.653 They did have to fight, and they look better when 0:07:26.653 --> 0:07:30.973 the bench came on. They started really strong with the 0:07:30.973 --> 0:07:32.733 first five six minutes. It was all the All Blacks, 0:07:32.733 --> 0:07:35.173 and it wasn't until they went down the other end 0:07:35.213 --> 0:07:38.053 of the park and started conceding penalties at will that 0:07:38.133 --> 0:07:42.693 it sort of began to fall apart. Boden Barratt's performance. 0:07:43.053 --> 0:07:43.813 What did you make of that? 0:07:44.453 --> 0:07:49.133 Yeah, not great. Look, Boden hadn't played for almost two months, 0:07:49.333 --> 0:07:54.013 and I'm not making excuses for him, but it was 0:07:55.813 --> 0:07:59.133 playing helps from a rhythm and a confidence perspective. But 0:07:59.213 --> 0:08:01.573 it did feel like a continuation of what we saw 0:08:01.613 --> 0:08:05.613 from him at the Blues this year, which was quite hesitant. 0:08:06.453 --> 0:08:08.213 I don't know whether he's lost a bit of confidence 0:08:08.373 --> 0:08:11.173 in his body. He just doesn't seem to challenge the line. 0:08:11.173 --> 0:08:14.133 There's a lot of shuffling. Even early in the match 0:08:14.173 --> 0:08:16.213 when the All Blacks made breaks, he put a little 0:08:16.293 --> 0:08:20.933 kick and they were entering the Stormers twenty two. Little 0:08:20.933 --> 0:08:22.973 eras creeping into his game. There was the second half 0:08:23.013 --> 0:08:27.693 restart that went short. He grabbed an opposition player in 0:08:27.733 --> 0:08:30.053 the air, gave away a penalty. There there was the 0:08:30.413 --> 0:08:33.893 telling one where the high ball he went up and 0:08:33.933 --> 0:08:36.973 just looked at it and didn't contest it. So look, 0:08:37.013 --> 0:08:41.293 I think worrying signs. I think that was his big chance. 0:08:41.493 --> 0:08:44.973 He waited all July, didn't get an opportunity. This was 0:08:46.013 --> 0:08:50.573 such a long time coming, And to be honest, I 0:08:50.693 --> 0:08:53.893 was I thought Yakim that the twenty year old on 0:08:53.973 --> 0:08:55.813 debut for the Stormers outplayed him. 0:08:56.173 --> 0:08:58.853 Yeah, I think he did too, and it was notable. 0:08:58.893 --> 0:09:01.493 And yes, the tide was turning at the point of 0:09:01.533 --> 0:09:04.293 the game where Josh Jacob came on, But it was 0:09:04.333 --> 0:09:10.773 noticeable having Jacob on the impact he had, just in 0:09:10.853 --> 0:09:13.253 terms of straightening the attack a little bit and being 0:09:13.293 --> 0:09:16.933 decisive and knowing what he was wanting to do. Maybe 0:09:16.933 --> 0:09:21.093 gouldkicking aside, but I thought it was just noticeable and 0:09:21.453 --> 0:09:22.853 it's hard to real too much into it, as I said, 0:09:22.853 --> 0:09:25.173 because it was with the Stormers tiring and the all 0:09:25.173 --> 0:09:26.933 Backs were getting on top at that point of the game. 0:09:27.213 --> 0:09:30.653 But it did just feel like I'm trying to think 0:09:30.693 --> 0:09:32.813 exactly when he came on, it was I think after 0:09:32.813 --> 0:09:34.893 the All Backs had gone maybe twenty one to fourteen up, 0:09:34.973 --> 0:09:38.053 but it felt like the attack was just straightened out 0:09:38.053 --> 0:09:40.053 a little bit once Drakan came on the part. 0:09:40.533 --> 0:09:43.453 Yeah, I think so. And look, Dave Rien has been 0:09:43.453 --> 0:09:47.373 open about the fact that Boden Barrett started this first 0:09:47.413 --> 0:09:50.573 game against the Stormers, Ruben Love's going to start against 0:09:50.613 --> 0:09:53.053 the Sharks, and Josh Jacob is probably going to get 0:09:53.053 --> 0:09:57.093 a crack against the Bulls. But that wasn't the performance 0:09:57.093 --> 0:10:02.133 I think Boden would have wanted. And if Bill Blacks, 0:10:02.853 --> 0:10:05.053 I feel like protecting him a wee bit at the 0:10:05.093 --> 0:10:08.293 moment with their public missiting around it. And he's obviously 0:10:08.613 --> 0:10:11.213 an experienced member of the squad and I'm sure he's 0:10:11.213 --> 0:10:13.413 doing a lot of mentoring behind the scenes, But from 0:10:13.493 --> 0:10:17.413 a pure performance perspective, I think that that was not 0:10:18.293 --> 0:10:21.333 the standard we've come to expect from Bowden, and you know, 0:10:23.013 --> 0:10:26.933 we probably haven't seen the level that we expect from him, 0:10:27.333 --> 0:10:28.053 certainly this year. 0:10:28.093 --> 0:10:31.253 Well Man, he'll know that, like he's a quality player, 0:10:31.453 --> 0:10:34.853 and he'll know that he isn't that that wasn't the 0:10:34.893 --> 0:10:37.533 best he can deliver. The question is whether agains another 0:10:37.533 --> 0:10:40.573 opportunity to show that, and I'm not sure that he will, 0:10:40.653 --> 0:10:42.973 because speaking he will probably come off the bench, maybe 0:10:43.013 --> 0:10:46.293 against the Bulls, perhaps spitballing here here. 0:10:46.173 --> 0:10:49.813 Perhaps play against the Lions. The only other point I 0:10:49.853 --> 0:10:52.413 would make is there weren't too many players in that 0:10:52.413 --> 0:10:55.053 game from a little black perspective that actually enhearance their claims. 0:10:55.173 --> 0:10:58.013 From a test perspective, I would say Peter Luckeye was outstanding. 0:10:58.573 --> 0:11:00.413 Anton Lena Brown was busy. He got mad of the 0:11:00.413 --> 0:11:02.933 match even though he got the yellow card. Fabian Holland 0:11:02.973 --> 0:11:05.853 got two taling line out steels, one when the All 0:11:05.853 --> 0:11:09.133 Blacks were under massive heat and the other directly led 0:11:09.133 --> 0:11:11.133 to a try. I think it was for Josh Morby. 0:11:12.293 --> 0:11:14.653 But outside of that, Riquewan. 0:11:14.253 --> 0:11:16.293 He was I thought Antonine signal was good again. 0:11:17.613 --> 0:11:20.013 But on the whole there's not too many players that 0:11:20.053 --> 0:11:23.413 you would say you put some real and pressure on 0:11:23.453 --> 0:11:24.053 the incumbent. 0:11:24.693 --> 0:11:29.493 Yeah, I wonder whether I mean it's been well telegraphed 0:11:29.493 --> 0:11:30.933 at the All Blacks have pretty much had the first 0:11:30.933 --> 0:11:32.893 Test team locked in played and I'm not saying this 0:11:34.253 --> 0:11:36.733 they weren't playing with that in mind. But I don't 0:11:36.733 --> 0:11:38.253 know it Just you know, when you when you say 0:11:38.293 --> 0:11:40.693 that the first Test team is locked in, hard to 0:11:40.693 --> 0:11:42.893 put your hand up when you are on the outside 0:11:42.933 --> 0:11:44.413 looking in already. I don't know. 0:11:44.973 --> 0:11:49.413 Yeah, potentially, And look, there's a number of factors. They 0:11:49.413 --> 0:11:51.253 were under massive pressure in that game. They didn't have 0:11:51.293 --> 0:11:55.533 it all their own way, and they didn't adjust to 0:11:55.573 --> 0:11:57.533 Carl Dixon either. I think that was a massive part 0:11:57.533 --> 0:12:00.773 of the lack of flow and how the All Blacks 0:12:00.893 --> 0:12:05.493 wanted to play and look good. That's a reality they're 0:12:05.493 --> 0:12:06.813 going to have to call. Dixon is going to be 0:12:06.853 --> 0:12:08.693 in charge of Baltimore, so there's no getting away from it. 0:12:08.813 --> 0:12:10.893 That's right. I don't think Carl Dixon is a t 0:12:11.053 --> 0:12:14.933 standard referee, but he has been awarded these matches, so 0:12:14.973 --> 0:12:17.773 you have to find a way to get up to 0:12:17.853 --> 0:12:21.453 speed with Carl Dixon. He operates some bizarre lines at 0:12:21.453 --> 0:12:22.213 the moment, held. 0:12:22.013 --> 0:12:24.053 What do you make it that penalty trow for Josh Molby. 0:12:24.813 --> 0:12:27.413 Like again, Carl Dixon referees the game to the letter 0:12:27.453 --> 0:12:30.133 of the law, but it's like an aligen has come 0:12:30.173 --> 0:12:32.933 down read the World Rugby rule balok and gone, okay, 0:12:33.053 --> 0:12:34.693 I've put this into my brain. Now I don't know 0:12:34.733 --> 0:12:36.573 how to do it. He's this is a blog that 0:12:36.613 --> 0:12:39.013 played professional rugby, yet he seems to have no feel 0:12:39.053 --> 0:12:39.533 for the game. 0:12:39.813 --> 0:12:42.293 Yeah, he's overly officious, massively right. 0:12:42.453 --> 0:12:47.013 Yeah, and look he is I'm sure impressing world rugby 0:12:47.013 --> 0:12:51.493 bosses because he does catch everything that they're after. But 0:12:51.653 --> 0:12:54.533 I you know, he played close to two hundred games. 0:12:54.573 --> 0:12:58.173 I think it was for Harlequins maybe, but you wouldn't 0:12:58.213 --> 0:13:00.093 know it. Like he referees the game like it is 0:13:00.613 --> 0:13:03.173 his first time seeing it and he's following the exact 0:13:03.493 --> 0:13:05.733 letter of the world law. But again, I can moan 0:13:05.773 --> 0:13:08.493 about it on this podcast, and I will, But if 0:13:08.493 --> 0:13:10.973 you're the all blacks he's got, then they're not going 0:13:10.973 --> 0:13:13.933 to change the referee appointments. So you've got to deal 0:13:13.973 --> 0:13:15.813 with the way that he's going to referee, the way 0:13:15.853 --> 0:13:18.053 that Matthew Carly's going to referee, the way that Nika 0:13:18.093 --> 0:13:19.893 Amashakelly is going to referee in the way the Angers 0:13:19.893 --> 0:13:23.293 Gardener referees. And I think, going back to my point 0:13:23.293 --> 0:13:26.733 from last week, it would be easy if Carl Dixon 0:13:26.773 --> 0:13:29.693 was referee for every match of the series, or whoever 0:13:29.853 --> 0:13:30.253 might be. 0:13:30.293 --> 0:13:31.333 No one wants to see. 0:13:31.373 --> 0:13:33.933 No, but you would at least get used to knowing 0:13:35.333 --> 0:13:36.813 which way the game is going to be. It's just 0:13:36.893 --> 0:13:40.333 it goes in wild different areas depending on who's got 0:13:40.333 --> 0:13:41.973 the whistle. And I don't think it's healthy for the 0:13:41.973 --> 0:13:44.053 sport and world rugby is asleep at the wheel because 0:13:44.053 --> 0:13:46.733 they've got no desire to change it. Don't seem interested 0:13:46.773 --> 0:13:48.173 in the fact that this is supposed to be an 0:13:48.213 --> 0:13:52.453 entertainment product. They've absolutely washed their hands of anything to 0:13:52.493 --> 0:13:56.213 do with the entertainment product. Test level and then the 0:13:56.213 --> 0:13:59.173 TMO intervening every five minutes and the game as well. 0:13:59.213 --> 0:14:03.733 It was just this, This rugby's greatest rivalry is built 0:14:03.773 --> 0:14:06.213 on the tradition, but it's also built on entertainment and 0:14:06.533 --> 0:14:11.533 the two best supposed team at playing rugby, and yet 0:14:11.973 --> 0:14:14.813 the refereeing was a distraction from that. And this is 0:14:14.853 --> 0:14:17.653 the point that rugby has got to now, is that 0:14:18.693 --> 0:14:21.213 everyone tries to sell this as a form of entertainment, 0:14:22.053 --> 0:14:24.853 but World Rugby and the referees don't seem to listen. 0:14:24.893 --> 0:14:27.613 I don't know. I think it's gonna be a long 0:14:27.653 --> 0:14:29.413 tour if this is the kind of refereeing standard that 0:14:29.413 --> 0:14:29.893 we're used to. 0:14:30.493 --> 0:14:33.453 Yeah, we don't want to be talking about this the 0:14:33.493 --> 0:14:33.933 whole time. 0:14:34.013 --> 0:14:35.813 No, but I don't, I don't, Reginuely don't. 0:14:36.053 --> 0:14:41.813 But you're rights. It's a frustration that we don't want 0:14:41.813 --> 0:14:45.093 these referees to be focal figures, but it is incumbent 0:14:45.133 --> 0:14:46.573 on the All Blacks to adjust. 0:14:47.173 --> 0:14:52.173 Indeed, like let's move on from that. Some news out 0:14:52.173 --> 0:14:54.813 of the All Blacks camp today that Billy Procter is 0:14:54.893 --> 0:14:58.413 heading home from the tour. Suspected to be the case 0:14:58.493 --> 0:15:02.693 after we saw him on Friday nights our time his 0:15:03.453 --> 0:15:07.053 shoulder arm was it a slang, didn't look good and 0:15:07.413 --> 0:15:10.853 Dave Rennick confirming it's a fractured shoulder blade. So he's 0:15:10.853 --> 0:15:12.653 going to be out for ten to twelve weeks, which 0:15:13.013 --> 0:15:14.933 you look at this point in time, that's anywhere between 0:15:14.933 --> 0:15:16.853 two to three months, which could even be the end 0:15:16.853 --> 0:15:17.573 of your tour. 0:15:17.733 --> 0:15:19.373 Pretty much the end of your season. Yeah, two to 0:15:19.413 --> 0:15:19.973 three months. 0:15:20.653 --> 0:15:22.613 I think, so you rehab it back. He's back here, I. 0:15:22.613 --> 0:15:24.733 Think he will struggle with back. So devastating blow for 0:15:24.773 --> 0:15:27.333 Billy first and foremost, isn't it. This is the once 0:15:27.373 --> 0:15:30.693 in a lifetime tour. And look, he's not going to 0:15:30.693 --> 0:15:34.013 be the last we've had George Bell. They're going to 0:15:34.053 --> 0:15:36.453 be on the same flight home and we've had one game. 0:15:37.213 --> 0:15:41.533 This is going to be a hugely arduous tour that's 0:15:41.573 --> 0:15:46.533 going to claim many casualties. Yeah, it's a blow for 0:15:46.573 --> 0:15:49.933 the all Becks because I think while Billy hasn't reached 0:15:50.053 --> 0:15:54.773 great heights, he still has test experience. And it depletes 0:15:54.813 --> 0:15:56.333 your depth in their midfield, doesn't it. 0:15:56.333 --> 0:15:59.933 It does? And you know there, we're going to be 0:16:00.493 --> 0:16:02.653 two games down by the time they get a replacement over, 0:16:03.453 --> 0:16:05.653 so you've still got six games to go. The question 0:16:05.853 --> 0:16:08.733 is do they go for a lightfu light midfield placement 0:16:08.813 --> 0:16:12.813 or do they go for Richie Moong? And you asked 0:16:12.813 --> 0:16:16.213 the question today whether Mona's in the conversation, and Dave 0:16:16.253 --> 0:16:19.013 Rennie chuckled and said, we'll go through the process, which 0:16:19.053 --> 0:16:21.293 to me suggests that he is very much in the 0:16:21.333 --> 0:16:27.173 picture for coming over and replacing Billy. Prop to would 0:16:27.173 --> 0:16:28.453 that be the right thing for the All Blacks to 0:16:28.493 --> 0:16:29.773 do well? 0:16:30.333 --> 0:16:33.613 First of all, midfield is not an area of great 0:16:33.653 --> 0:16:36.013 depth and he's Yellow Rugby, I don't think at the moment. 0:16:36.013 --> 0:16:39.453 But they do have enough cover within that All Black 0:16:39.453 --> 0:16:42.693 squad to get through this tour, right Jordi, Barrett, Quinte, 0:16:42.693 --> 0:16:50.093 Pier Antonina Brown, Riquewanny Tava Tavanawa. Those aren't by any 0:16:50.253 --> 0:16:55.613 count established options, but there is enough cover there. So look, 0:16:55.653 --> 0:17:00.333 Dave Renie's made. And then from a midfield perspective, you've 0:17:00.333 --> 0:17:06.413 had a j Lamb Branden in or David Heavily's still playing, 0:17:06.453 --> 0:17:10.493 but he's going offshore as well. So there's number of former. 0:17:10.373 --> 0:17:12.773 Or Blacks in all cloud yep. 0:17:12.613 --> 0:17:16.733 Guys on the fringe leaving. So depth isn't great there 0:17:17.093 --> 0:17:21.533 and so for me, there's no obvious next in line replacement. 0:17:21.573 --> 0:17:23.573 Maybe it's David Hevilli, maybe you bring him over even 0:17:23.613 --> 0:17:26.653 though he's leaving. But look, Dave Renie's made no secret 0:17:26.653 --> 0:17:29.293 of the fact that he wanted Muwanga here from the outset. 0:17:29.373 --> 0:17:32.493 He brought him into the pre Super Rugby Final camp. 0:17:32.853 --> 0:17:36.453 He publicly stated that he wanted to get Muanglan and 0:17:36.533 --> 0:17:39.093 use him in the opening tour game against the Stormers. 0:17:39.773 --> 0:17:43.293 So look, I think in my mind there's no question 0:17:43.373 --> 0:17:47.453 that really asked the question of New Zealand rugby. Richie 0:17:47.493 --> 0:17:52.093 has now played two games for Canterbury. Unfortunately one of 0:17:52.093 --> 0:17:54.373 those was wrestling the raanfully shield away. 0:17:54.413 --> 0:17:55.773 Hopefully have you brought it up before I did? 0:17:55.853 --> 0:18:00.453 That's great from mighty Otago. I'm not sure how much. 0:18:00.493 --> 0:18:01.893 I haven't seen the game. I don't know how much 0:18:01.893 --> 0:18:04.213 of a role we played in that. But look, regardless, 0:18:04.773 --> 0:18:08.093 he's surely he's like ticked that box now right And 0:18:09.333 --> 0:18:12.213 the only question I would have is is it a 0:18:12.213 --> 0:18:15.813 bit fascical that the All Blacks have selected four playmakers 0:18:16.253 --> 0:18:21.213 and they're all still fits and you replace a midfielder 0:18:21.213 --> 0:18:21.813 with ten. 0:18:22.413 --> 0:18:25.693 Well, they're replaced Morne Nadawa with Ethan black Hair at 0:18:25.733 --> 0:18:29.693 twenty three World Cup Spring Walks replaced Malcolm Marx with 0:18:30.053 --> 0:18:32.693 Hondra Pollard the twenty three World Cup. 0:18:32.813 --> 0:18:34.253 It's a coach is progative, isn't it? 0:18:34.253 --> 0:18:36.653 Absolutely? If they yeah, I mean, if they want to 0:18:36.653 --> 0:18:40.453 bring him in, are you? I think in the absence 0:18:40.453 --> 0:18:43.413 of equality midfielder and I can't think of the next 0:18:43.413 --> 0:18:49.373 player in line, you know, they had Cooper Cooper Roberts 0:18:49.533 --> 0:18:52.253 and Camp you know, as a training partner in Christy. 0:18:52.373 --> 0:18:54.653 I mean, he's barely played super rugular so you couldn't 0:18:54.693 --> 0:18:58.773 bring him into the mix. So I can't think of 0:18:58.773 --> 0:19:02.773 a quality player to bring in. And so yeah, OK, 0:19:02.813 --> 0:19:05.053 I'll be comfortable enough with them bringing Richie Wallinger. And 0:19:05.093 --> 0:19:08.253 you think, as you said, he Dave Ready talked about 0:19:08.893 --> 0:19:10.773 he was planning to use me against the storm as 0:19:10.773 --> 0:19:12.613 if he was able to be selected, and you work 0:19:12.653 --> 0:19:14.493 your way backwards and go well, that kind of moved 0:19:14.533 --> 0:19:18.613 Josh Jacob probably into the selection and touring party because 0:19:18.813 --> 0:19:21.213 they couldn't take Richie Wong and working your way backwards 0:19:21.213 --> 0:19:23.813 from the first Test side was the kind of players 0:19:23.813 --> 0:19:26.733 they needed. So look the doors opened out for him 0:19:26.733 --> 0:19:29.293 to get there. Theilbacks are on a limited runway to 0:19:29.333 --> 0:19:32.693 the Rugbill Cup under this management. It's the case it 0:19:32.773 --> 0:19:33.413 needs must be. 0:19:33.573 --> 0:19:36.693 I think it in Ore, Yeah, I think there's the 0:19:36.733 --> 0:19:39.013 point is you're paying Richard m Wang a hell of 0:19:39.053 --> 0:19:41.013 a lot of rugby right money right now to be 0:19:41.013 --> 0:19:43.893 playing provincial rugby and as you say, the runway to 0:19:43.933 --> 0:19:45.653 the World Cup, this guy's going to be at the 0:19:45.693 --> 0:19:48.733 World Cup. He needs to be involved. Really, you're shooting 0:19:48.733 --> 0:19:52.613 yourself in the foot here. I understand the stipulations that 0:19:52.693 --> 0:19:57.533 Mwanga didn't sign for two years and so that stipulates 0:19:57.533 --> 0:20:00.853 that he should be playing a full NPC campaign, but 0:20:01.373 --> 0:20:04.653 just the optics around it and all the gray areas 0:20:04.693 --> 0:20:08.773 around sabbaticals, I mean, just just sign it off, you know, 0:20:09.253 --> 0:20:11.493 and if you have to bring over another midfielder at 0:20:11.533 --> 0:20:14.453 a later date, so beer, it's cut before the horse 0:20:14.493 --> 0:20:16.253 a little bit, but I don't see that changing the 0:20:16.293 --> 0:20:19.653 complexion of the first Test team. Maybe Muanga comes into 0:20:19.653 --> 0:20:24.093 the picture later in the tour, but Rennie's point all along, 0:20:24.133 --> 0:20:26.773 I think, has been to get him involved and to 0:20:26.813 --> 0:20:28.973 get him up to speed from a game plan perspective, 0:20:29.613 --> 0:20:34.093 and yeah, just utilize him. Well, he's wasted playing for 0:20:34.173 --> 0:20:34.733 Vinci Rugby. 0:20:35.533 --> 0:20:40.133 Yeah, look there's a big Shield defense coming up next weekend, 0:20:40.213 --> 0:20:43.653 so we can flight they bring him over you want, 0:20:43.653 --> 0:20:45.693 by a plenty. I'm sure our producer Mark would want 0:20:45.693 --> 0:20:50.173 that as well. Yeah. Look, I think these eligibility laws 0:20:50.173 --> 0:20:53.813 need to be simplified. It doesn't make sense to the 0:20:53.813 --> 0:20:56.013