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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: Straight down the Middle.

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Speaker 2: Of Drup Dickney Score. Try these.

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Speaker 1: Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct

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Speaker 1: with Elliot Smith and Leam Napier powered by News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Excess Solutions, elevating you

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Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level.

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Speaker 2: Midweek and time to reconvene.

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Speaker 3: Elliot Smith with me all the way back from the

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Speaker 3: United States, the sleeping giant of world Rugby.

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Speaker 4: Leam Mapier, Welcome back, jeez one on Joe. Great to

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Speaker 4: see it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, likewise, good trip, was it, wils Yep.

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Speaker 5: I wouldn't say well arrested, but it's good to be

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Speaker 5: back in tackling another big old.

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Speaker 3: Bladerslow indeed, Well, your Blakes have just named the team

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Speaker 3: four Saturday Night eleven change, sorry, eleven survivors from the

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Speaker 3: team that were beaten comprehensively, biggest ever defeat for the

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Speaker 3: All Blacks.

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Speaker 2: Liam.

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Speaker 3: Just looking at that team, I'm sure our listeners have

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Speaker 3: seen it by now. Are you expecting more changes?

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Speaker 5: Not really, I didn't know Scott Barrett was the big surprise.

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Speaker 5: Didn't know he was injured, didn't know he we didn't

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Speaker 5: weren't told. He finished that game with a shoulder injury.

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Speaker 5: Sounds like he trained on Tuesday and did everything he could.

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Speaker 5: So that was the big surprise. But Raises pretty consistently

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Speaker 5: maintained faith in his starters, asn't he I thought, maybe

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Speaker 5: lessifying a look who might come into the mix somewhere,

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Speaker 5: But I did expect Caleb Clark to come back. Can

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Speaker 5: Roy Guards, Cody Taylor was always going to be injected

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Speaker 5: back your starters, same with Cortez lastmile on the bench.

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Speaker 5: A bit of a surprise to see Peter Lucky injected

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Speaker 5: along with Patrick Tuopolota returning. So a couple of tweaks,

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Speaker 5: but there's certainly no radical changes there.

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Speaker 3: No, and those expecting radical change will be sorely disappointed

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Speaker 3: because the players that did suffer that defeat, the worst

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Speaker 3: ever bid an All Blacks team, largely back up again.

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Speaker 3: But some of those players they bring in have that experience.

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Speaker 3: Your Cody Taylor instantly makes the line out better. Can

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Speaker 3: Roy Guard is an instant lift into that back line

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Speaker 3: as well. Caleb Clark said to bide his time in

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Speaker 3: the NBC, which feels like a bit of an odd

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Speaker 3: one for the last couple of weeks, but he gets

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Speaker 3: his opportunity and hard to argue with too many of

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Speaker 3: those changes that they've made, especially probably for me at

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Speaker 3: hooker and half back and probably on the left wing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think Caleb Clark has been an oversight. I

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Speaker 5: think we've been talking for the best part of two

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Speaker 5: three weeks.

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Speaker 2: White.

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Speaker 4: Did he really need to play the NPC?

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Speaker 5: Maybe one game, certainly not too when you're glaring issues

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Speaker 5: are under the high ball. He's your best aerial exponent.

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Speaker 5: Get him in there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Why wait, Well, that's.

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Speaker 3: The thing I think, to be honest, Torolomax and Tobody

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Speaker 3: Williams have suffered from a lack of game time, perhaps

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Speaker 3: not going back to the NBC, whereas I think for

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Speaker 3: a outside back a wing it it's easier to slot in.

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Speaker 4: And there's a real lack of consistency there there is,

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Speaker 4: and Scott.

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Speaker 3: Rolls and see some of the calls and things like that.

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Speaker 3: But then you go out of the camp and you

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Speaker 3: go back into NPC. So I would have had Caleb

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Speaker 3: Clark and there're certainly for the Wellington set.

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Speaker 4: Same with Cam Royguard.

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Speaker 5: He played one game for Counties and he's straight back

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Speaker 5: in there, so Caleb Clark I would have given him

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Speaker 5: one game max and then he goes back to the

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Speaker 5: left wing. He was your incumbent at the back end

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Speaker 5: of last year. He played exceptionally well against the spring

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Speaker 5: Box last year, so I think that was one selection oversight.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, looking at that team, I don't think you

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Speaker 5: can underestimate, like you say, with Cody Taylor, how much

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Speaker 5: of a difference he should make to the line out.

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Speaker 5: And Cam Roygard he is among if not he's pushing

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Speaker 5: a bee, considered the best half back in the world

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Speaker 5: on his day. He upstairs DuPont last November. He has

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Speaker 5: running threat. His booming boots will take so much pressure

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Speaker 5: off Boden Barrett and the other kickers in that all.

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Speaker 4: Black back line.

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Speaker 5: He just poses so much more of a threat for

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Speaker 5: the defenders around the ruck. And you know Cortez Latima

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Speaker 5: has head. He's been a bit patchy, but he should

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Speaker 5: potentially lift the tempo when it comes on later in

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Speaker 5: that game. So the bench instantly looks strong as well,

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Speaker 5: with too Polo two bringing that physicality, adding that experience,

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Speaker 5: and I do like Larchey's inclusion. He's versatile and he's

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Speaker 5: a much bigger, more powerful, dynamic ball carrier than Dupless

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Speaker 5: and I think this should be more obviously the spring

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Speaker 5: box Blue the All Blacks off the Park and Wellington,

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Speaker 5: but the Wallaby style will generally be you would suspect

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Speaker 5: more wide, more open, because their strengths are in their

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Speaker 5: back line.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned can Roygad and Press taking some pressure off

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Speaker 3: Boden Barrett. I think we probably can't underestimate the fact

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Speaker 3: that the All Blacks got down to their fourth and

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Speaker 3: fifth choice half backs in recent weeks. I think we've

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Speaker 3: seen that there is a gulf clearly between first and

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Speaker 3: fourth and fifth. Roy Guard is world class, as you

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Speaker 3: pointed out, and I know was mentioned back into last

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Speaker 3: year that I think was Isaac Boss, who's coached him

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Speaker 3: a little bit in the age Grips could see him

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Speaker 3: potentially being a ten now with that ever happens is

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Speaker 3: by the bye. But he's got that playmaking mind and

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Speaker 3: I think the All Blacks have missed having that kind

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Speaker 3: of player come out of the back of the ruck

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Speaker 3: option taking wise mean those suffering games are real arm

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Speaker 3: wrestles and a lot of box kicking, but you know

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Speaker 3: Roga would have had we snipe I'm sure once or

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Speaker 3: twice in those games.

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Speaker 2: How do we look?

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Speaker 3: And I think the All Blacks certainly missed having his

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Speaker 3: presence at half back, just directing the team and keeping

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Speaker 3: the pulse of the team.

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Speaker 4: Oh massively.

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Speaker 5: The difference between him and Finlay Christie is hemispheres and

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Speaker 5: we've touched on some of his strengths there, but one

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Speaker 5: of them we haven't is his size.

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Speaker 4: And the All Blacks have struggled at times.

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Speaker 5: You go right back to France in July with their

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Speaker 5: their breakdown and if there's pressure on there, if the

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Speaker 5: ball not pristine, if the halfback's getting man handled, Royguard

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Speaker 5: has the presence of mind, the size of physicality to

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Speaker 5: go for a snight, to shake off defenders, to still

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Speaker 5: deliver under that sort of pressure. He's by far the

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Speaker 5: biggest half back the All Blacks have it and that

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Speaker 5: does make a big difference.

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Speaker 3: No, Lesku this week thought he may have seen him

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Speaker 3: potentially off the bench. They've stuck with the midfield or

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Speaker 3: especially the center. In terms of Billy Proctor, I thought

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Speaker 3: this week may have been the change to a week

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Speaker 3: to make a change there.

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Speaker 2: He hasn't.

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Speaker 3: He's had a lot of opportunities, and I mind the

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Speaker 3: fact that they've stuck with him through the last few

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Speaker 3: Test matches, but time is running out, I think, and

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Speaker 3: this week, you know, I thought he might have been

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Speaker 3: replaced this week, but the other week Limbs is a

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Speaker 3: major pivotal point in his career as test career.

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Speaker 2: I think for Billy Proctor, it's time to show up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's fair. He's had a lot of

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Speaker 4: chances and.

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Speaker 5: That combination really hasn't gelled, which is surprising with Jordie

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Speaker 5: because they've had a lot of time. I'm together for

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Speaker 5: the Hurricanes, not this year, but prior to that, and yeah,

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Speaker 5: Billy's just hasn't made the step up at this point.

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Speaker 5: If there was one player in that team that was

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Speaker 5: under significant pressure to talk, you know, whether it was

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Speaker 5: going to be Antoonlina Brown or or leicesterifying Anook, who

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Speaker 5: there was, There's been a lot of conjecture around that

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Speaker 5: Raises held firm and I think credit to him because

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Speaker 5: one hundred percent there is a real temptation to bring

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Speaker 5: in Lester's power and he knows his game well. He's

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Speaker 5: coached them through the Crusaders so there could be an

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Speaker 5: underlying bias.

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Speaker 4: Well, he hasn't gone there, so Billy has to deliver.

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Speaker 5: But you could extend that out to other players within

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Speaker 5: that group because the heaviest defeat in history. And I

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Speaker 5: think I haven't been around earlier in the week, but

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Speaker 5: I think Cody Taylor spoke really well today about restoring

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Speaker 5: prior about players fronting about the hurts and.

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Speaker 4: The words that's stung that that have been around.

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Speaker 5: And when he said that, I was thinking of not

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Speaker 5: us in the media, but things that have been said

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Speaker 5: by people like Karen Reid who questioned basically the hearts, yeah,

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Speaker 5: of the All Blacks team and the way they folded

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Speaker 5: under pressure when the boxerre on that rampage in the

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Speaker 5: last twenty comments from form more Black captains like that sting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they'll see more than columns written by you, I

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Speaker 3: somewhere else from our opposition, whatever I be. It's those

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Speaker 3: former players suggesting that that I think will really hurt

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Speaker 3: the All Blacks. Artie Suthing as captain not an unfamiliar role.

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Speaker 3: In fact, he's already done it twice this year is

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Speaker 3: the third time he's captained the side this year. I'm

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Speaker 3: not unfamiliar, as I said, but I think it's time

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Speaker 3: of Artie's stand up as a leader as well, because

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Speaker 3: I don't think he did in the back end of

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Speaker 3: that game in Wellington, Chip and Chase in the last

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Speaker 3: two or three minutes and the game was gone by

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Speaker 3: that point, but not really the play that was needed.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he stood up in that game at all.

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Speaker 2: Thought he was very very quiet.

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Speaker 3: So I mean a lot of people are clamoring Friday,

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Speaker 3: so I ve to be the full time captain of

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Speaker 3: this team rather than Scott Barrett. But I think there

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Speaker 3: has to be question marks around some of his leadership,

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Speaker 3: both as a vice captain. But you know he's going

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Speaker 3: to have to stand up as a player and as

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Speaker 3: a captain this week.

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Speaker 5: Yeah that's fair too. He probably hasn't been at his

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Speaker 5: best for the All Blacks this year, different levels, but

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Speaker 5: could you look at his impact through Former one and

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Speaker 5: PACIFICA best player in the competition by a long way,

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Speaker 5: inspirational every single week. Maybe that season has taken a

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Speaker 5: bit of a toll. Not too sure, and you broaden

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Speaker 5: that out to the loose Ford trio. I think they

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Speaker 5: were very good at Eden Park. We saw Wallace Tacy.

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Speaker 4: Carrying really well.

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Speaker 5: Simon Parker is a real presence on defense and as

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Speaker 5: a trio. They were massively upstaged in Wellington. That's not

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Speaker 5: as easy when you're on the back foot and the

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Speaker 5: set piece is disintegrating the scrum. The line out went

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Speaker 5: to the packs. So I think there's some a lot

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Speaker 5: of onus on the All Black forward pack to front

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Speaker 5: different kettle of fish against the Wallabies. It will be

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Speaker 5: you suspect more, more up tempo. But there's no doubt

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Speaker 5: Joe Schmidt would have watched what's happened with the All Blacks,

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Speaker 5: some of their defensive frailties. I'm sure he's picked apart

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Speaker 5: a few little set piece plays and I've got got

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Speaker 5: to still target the All Blacks in the air, don't they.

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Speaker 3: They do because they've seen the frailties there, they've seen

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Speaker 3: the weaknesses. So as Joe Schmidt would have seen, he

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Speaker 3: would have watched that tape and gone, this is how

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Speaker 3: we can do it, and maybe they go away from

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Speaker 3: their game plan this week and go right. These guys

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Speaker 3: don't like it the under the in the air, so

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Speaker 3: let's just absolutely hamm with them. If I'm the Wallabies,

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Speaker 3: you know, I don't know whether you can outrun the

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Speaker 3: All Blacks because they've tried to do it for twenty

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Speaker 3: odd years and have them on the blas the back.

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Speaker 3: So maybe they just go back into their shells and

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Speaker 3: play spring box like rugby because the All Blacks don't

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Speaker 3: like it that way.

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Speaker 4: Maybe.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Schmidt as a high detail hours go right, so

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Speaker 5: he's catch pass, He's everything done to a very high precision.

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Speaker 5: He would have been pouring over footage. And I don't

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Speaker 5: think there's any doubt that the Wallaby strengths are in

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Speaker 5: their back line. Their midfield has a claim to be

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Speaker 5: the best in the world currently. Sui Lee and ikto

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Speaker 5: bouncing off each other. You want to get them the

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Speaker 5: ball in space. Max Jorgensen probably shift to fall back

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Speaker 5: with Andrew callaway out. I think that probably nullifies his

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Speaker 5: impact to weave it because I don't think you can

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Speaker 5: inject your pace as much from fullback. He will be

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Speaker 5: peppered with high balls, maybe not unleashed in the same capacity.

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Speaker 5: But I think the Wallaby strengths are in their back

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Speaker 5: line and they'll look to use those. But just on

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Speaker 5: the Wallabies, I think we've discussed it previously. There's no

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Speaker 5: Dutch Schmidz bought a depth of character, a resilience. We've

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Speaker 5: seen them come back even when they've lost, they've been competitive.

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Speaker 5: Talk a couple of the Australian journalists today, Ian Payton

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Speaker 5: and Jimmie Perrin panderam apologies and they made the point

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Speaker 5: that yeah, previous Wallaby's teams, even under Checker and co,

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Speaker 5: they'd be good one week, pounded the next, but now

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Speaker 5: they're competitive every single week. I'm pretty confident that All

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Speaker 5: Blacks will bounce back this week, but I don't think

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Speaker 5: we'll see the blowouts of previous years. This Wallaby's team

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Speaker 5: is still missing Will Skelton and Rob Valentini, and that's

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Speaker 5: predominantly why I reckon the All Blacks could well should

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Speaker 5: win because those are two huge presences in that Wallaby's

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Speaker 5: pack and they were front and center during the Lions

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Speaker 5: series when the Wallaby's played their best rugby and everyone

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Speaker 5: seems to be overlooking the fact that the Wallaby's actually

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Speaker 5: lost the last thay out to the Plumbers as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the comeback sort of overshadowed that a little.

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Speaker 3: But we're recording this before the Wallaby's team is officially announced,

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Speaker 3: but it sounds like James O'Connor is likely to be

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Speaker 3: a teen and according to a friend of the pod,

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Speaker 3: Christy Dorian, who has some pretty good male big in

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Speaker 3: for them in terms of getting that experience. They've got

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Speaker 3: some injuries and liner etc. But this is a guy

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Speaker 3: that is a super Raby champion not so long ago

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Speaker 3: and knows some of the ways the Crusader's boys in

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Speaker 3: that Crusader and that All Blacks team will play.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it probably goes both ways. They know him as well, and.

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Speaker 5: I don't think it's necessary a compliment to Australian rugby though,

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Speaker 5: is it that you have to fly a guy back

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Speaker 5: from Europe to start a test match?

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Speaker 4: For you?

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Speaker 5: A very a guy that's probably over the hill play

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Speaker 5: beyond his best. It sure he's mature much.

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Speaker 2: He's the only player in the wall Becau this even

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Speaker 2: one anything.

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Speaker 5: Well, look, I would much rather have James O'Connor than

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Speaker 5: Tane Edmond, so that's why they're flying him back. But yeah,

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Speaker 5: not great depth at ten when you have to bring

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Speaker 5: a bloke. But when did it even a right?

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Speaker 2: I think Monday maybe into into Auckland.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's not idea passport is struct for.

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Speaker 2: Customers as Liam, thank you.

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Speaker 3: As always, we will reconvene next week after the letters

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Speaker 3: low and our thanks to Last and Bars English and

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Speaker 3: Excess Solutions.

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Speaker 2: We'll catch you next time on Rugby Direct

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Speaker 1: For more from News Talks, ed B, listen live on

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Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

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Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio