WEBVTT - Why Mt Everest deserves respect over self-promotion 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:05.640 Kilda. 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:08.880 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:16.520 daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. Just over 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:21.840 seventy years after Sir Edmund Hillary first ascended Mount Everest, 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:26.760 the world's highest peak is grappling with new ethical dilemmas, 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:32.040 from crowded summit attempts and ecological strain to debates about 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:37.479 climate preparedness and the treatment of sherper's. Everest's story today 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:42.199 is just as complex as ever. The Himalayan Trust, founded 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.880 by Sir ed and his wife, continues to support local 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:51.120 communities at the heart of these challenges. His grandson, Alexander 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:55.000 Hillary now runs the organization and joins us now on 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:59.560 the Front Page to discuss what respecting Everest means and 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:09.280 whether we still do so. Alexander has climbing Mount Everest become, 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.400 I suppose, more of a commercial venture nowadays rather than 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.280 a personal or spiritual challenge. 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.520 Do you think, well, I think it's changed a lot 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.840 over the years. So when my grandfather first climbed it, 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.200 there was all sorts of things going on then as well. 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.040 There was the Commonwealth, but then there was also this 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:33.880 sort of curiosity for achieving the impossible, I think today, 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:39.200 you know, whilst in nineteen ninety sort of commercial mountaineering started, 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.479 so it's a really really new industry and I think 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:44.560 that's what people talk about when they talk about sort 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:48.160 of climbing Everest is really what's been happening since nineteen 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:52.400 ninety to today, and it is becoming quite a very 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.600 important commercial venture. There's been a lot of sort of 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:59.840 negative talk around that, and I think it is important 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:05.240 to remember that this has you know, enormous value both 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:10.000 to the Sherpa people, but also you know, to mountaineering 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.960 as a whole, because it's this incredibly iconic thing, climbing Everest. 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.800 It's the epitome of accomplishment for a lot of people. 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.880 What has the booming climbing industry. What kind of effect 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.280 has it had on local Sherber communities, I guess economically, 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.520 socially or culturally even unbelievable. 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.880 So when my grandfather first arrived, you know, in the 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.320 Solukumbu region, which is the Everest region of Nepal, it 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.040 was the poorest region of one of the poorest countries 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.079 in the world. So they were a subsistence farmers living 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.800 in a pretty inhospitable place at high altitude and it 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.440 was very very tough living that they were living having. 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.960 So when the everest industry started, a lot of Nepalis 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.320 would start working in the industry because you could make 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.360 a lot of money through it, and they were very talented, 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.760 you know where looking at high altitude, they were strong, 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:06.000 well acclimatized. But they would go up onto the mountain 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.720 for a couple of months every year and they would 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.280 make you know, in many cases, and this is the 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:13.520 case today, they will to make more in a couple 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:17.520 of months than the average national salary of Nepal. So 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.959 from that perspective, it's well worth the time of getting 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.640 up onto the mountain and spending a couple of months 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.880 of hard work there. And it's just meant huge changes. 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.600 The climbers that are now working on Everest, they own businesses, 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:35.040 They have trecking businesses, guiding businesses on mount everests, they 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:39.400 have lodges, shops, helicopter companies even, and it's just meant 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.000 that the change in lives and livelihoods in the region 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:44.520 is pretty unbelievable. 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.960 And you mentioned kind of the commercial ability. That's not 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.320 even a word, but let's pretend it is. From the 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:58.040 nineteen nineties onwards. How I guess, how does social media culture, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:02.240 how does that even change? I suppose from the mid 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.640 two thousands up until now that that need or want 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.080 or desire or you know, that bucket list kind of 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.520 thing of making it up Everest. 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:12.800 Yeah. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.560 Well, it's interesting because you know, Everest is looked at 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.840 as the you know, it's the tallest mountain, and it's 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:20.440 one of these things that we think of as sort 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.400 of the epitome of accomplishment. But social media is really 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.479 blowing it open and showed us the bit by bit 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:31.120 sort of steps to achieve a mountain like Everest, and 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.080 I think, you know, that's that's opened up a lot 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.800 of controversy, rubbish cues other people, and I think the 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.680 New Zealanders it can be quite abrupt to see, you know, 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.520 we go to the mountains to sort of be at 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:48.200 one with nature, to have this experience of solitude and admiration, 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.799 and that's you know, often what we see on Everest. 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:53.760 You know, at the moment, it's it's not what. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.480 We see through social media, but there is I think 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.760 there's there's a lot of sort of misguide that nests 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.960 through the stuff that we're seeing on social media. 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:04.960 For instance, one of the. 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.400 Famous things in recent years has been the cues on Interest. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.080 But you know, only a few days after that famous 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:16.200 photo was taken, the mountain was almost empty and climbers 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:18.920 standing on the salmon of Everest just you know, a 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:23.440 couple of their teammates. So there is something quite misleading 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.640 about that, But it also has you know, exposed a 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:28.880 lot of the sort of more complicated truths of the 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:30.000 risk industry as well. 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.320 Hundreds of people now go up every year, and commercial 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.920 expeditions haven't just significantly increased access to the mountain, they've 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.360 also increased comfort. There are now luxury expeditions that can 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.279 cost up to one hundred and thirty thousand dollars, offering 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.840 things like heated tents with diving tables, and at this 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.480 point we should probably talk about how all those amenities 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.440 and indeed most climbers get up the mountain, and that's 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.960 with shirpers well. The whelming majority of expeditions rely on 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.000 shelpers to do everything from carrying supplies to putting up 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.080 tents to setting the ropes and ladders. They are absolutely 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:12.080 integral to commercial expeditions, as the sherper will readily tell. 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:16.240 You how many of the clients that you see coming 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.640 to Everest could do it without you? 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.760 I would say zero zero, yeah, none of them. None 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.480 of them. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.600 And do you think that social media gives the impression 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:31.960 that like anyone can go up there? I mean, you 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:34.640 do have to put in the hard yards and train 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.240 for months before heading to Everest. 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.599 I would think, well, months or years really, And I 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.520 think that's where things have gotten a bit wrong, because 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:48.000 before nineteen nineteen, for two thousand, you know, this was 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:51.240 the pinnacle of achievement of a mountaineous career. That might 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.720 be you know, they may have started climbing in their 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.719 twenties and then in their late forties they finally go 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.000 right to I'm going to go for Everest and they 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.719 climb it. And difference between Like in those days when 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.839 my dad climbed it, they were climbing in a team, 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:09.000 but they were each responsible for decisions themselves. They decided well, 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.360 they cooked for themselves, They made decisions about snow conditions, 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.600 about weather, about when to turn back, about how to 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.000 climb the mountain. Today that's not happening so much. 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:18.960 A lot of that. 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:22.800 Responsibility is being put to guides and I think that's 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:24.880 that is a bit of an issue, is you've got 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.320 people showing up to the mountain that haven't put in 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:32.280 the work required to turn themselves into a really skilled mountaineer. 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.360 You know, you need to be a really skilled mountaineer 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.680 to take on Mount Everest. It's not good enough just 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.160 to have a very basic understanding, you know, of snowcraft. 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.880 And I think you know, social media and this whole 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.800 sort of attitude around the youngest or stuff like that 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:53.600 of being the first person does sort of stray us 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:55.880 away from what mountaineering is really about. 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.480 And what is mountaineering really about? 0:07:58.720 --> 0:07:59.520 Well, I think that's. 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.680 Different question for each person, but I think mountaineering on 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.000 its whole is like what's so you know, rewarding about 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:12.320 mountaineering is it's about the challenge, and it's about proficiency 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.000 of skills. You know, you have to make decisions around 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:19.440 whether your own personal ability, you know, the snow conditions, 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.840 and it's it's about sort of gaining those skills and 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.920 then putting your those skills to practice in the mountain 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:31.920 environment and coming out successful and alive. And you know, 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:36.040 it's it's an amazing sport to be involved in, but 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.240 you need to be careful because the consequences are incredibly serious, 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.640 not just for yourself but for others as well. And 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:44.360 I yeah, I think we need to go back to 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.520 sort of those roots of mountaineering and remember, you know, 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.560 what's at stake, And how do we do that? 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.040 Do you think do we restrict people? Do they need 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:56.160 a special certificate like I've mountaineered to Certificate five so 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.800 I can tackle Everest or something like that. How do 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:02.600 we stop people who are so unprepared from giving it 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:02.840 a go. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.440 Well, I think, you know, there's a certain amount of 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:08.920 sort of rules and regulations that you can solve with this. 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.439 But ultimately, and Nepal is doing some of that stuff. 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.400 They're saying you now need to climb a six thousand 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:16.600 meter peak in Nepal before you tackle. 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.400 An eight thousand meter peak. But rarely this needs to. 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:23.440 Come from a cultural shift, a shift where we acknowledge that, 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.800 you know, before you climb Everest, you need to be 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.160 able to climb Mount Rupe who and you know be 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.240 able to do you know, just take small steps up 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.960 towards big goals and remember that you know you can't. 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.079 While it may be extraordinary to go from zero to 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:44.240 one hundred from nothing to climbing Everest. It's better to 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:46.920 build those skills, build that experience. 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:48.559 Up to an incredible accomplishment. 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.920 And I think there's something way more rewarding about that 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:56.080 journey to than just being able to say I ticked 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:56.400 the box. 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:57.800 I still on the summit of Everest. 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.520 Because you see online, don't you that people like, well, 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:02.959 should we ban it all together? Is it the end 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.120 of you know, traveling up Everest? Should we leave it 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:10.480 alone or something? But in reality, if a full ban 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:16.280 was to take place, the Nepalese community would suffer immensely, right, 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.800 Like a lot of them require this tourism industry to 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.480 stay alive, absolutely. 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.800 So, Like the Hamlan Trust was set up with my 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:28.280 grandfather and he recognized that there was this great need 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:33.040 for sort of education and healthcare and different infrastructure to projects. 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.480 And we've been working on that for over sixty years. 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:39.120 But you know the other part of that is the 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:43.040 economy and industry, and Everest is the center of that 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.760 for the people that we're working with. It's what draws 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.360 people in, It's what provides tourism jobs, it's what funds 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:54.800 and fuels agriculture and all different trading so it is 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.680 really really critical. But you know, again I sort of 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.760 think about it. You know, Everest is is like you 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:04.880 know the Milford Sound, you know, for Nepal, we can't 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:06.640 just shut it off and say no one's going to 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.560 go there. It's this where we're both countries that are 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.200 really lucky to have these really special tongue are these 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.680 special places of you know, international global significance, and we 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.520 need to learn how to to you know, look after 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.400 them sustainably, to cherish them, and to develop a really 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:27.640 good culture around interacting with these places, these spaces, not 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.840 sort of having a reactionary sort of we're going to 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.120 shut this off or we're going to just totally totally 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.400 blow it open, and that's not you know, I think 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.680 it's something that comes from rules and regulation. That's something 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.320 you know, a cultural shift that we need to create. 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.400 Yeah, do you think that we've lost respect for Mount Everest? 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.360 I think maybe a little bit. But I think there 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.560 are so many people that you know, love that mountain 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:54.760 and have so much respect for the mountain. You know, 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:59.040 the shirt people, it's of enormous significance. It's chom Longma, 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:03.360 It's the mother god of the world. And I think, 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.400 you know, it is a beautiful mountain despite everything that 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:10.120 gets said about it. It's got so many different aspects, 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.520 beautiful routes that haven't been climbed some of them, and 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:18.040 people doing amazing things and sort of you know, just recently, 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:22.200 Jim Morrison did an incredible first ski descent off down 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.280 off Mountain Everest on the north side, which is just 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:30.680 this sort of wonderful, hopeful, exciting story of mountaineering and accomplishment, 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.840 really pushing the envelope of what can be achieved, and 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.760 it was something that sort of, I guess honored the mountain, 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.040 and I think we need to sort of, you know, 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.400 really connect with that, and each person that wants to 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.000 sort of go and climb Everest and embark on that adventure, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.200 I think needs to do it from a place of respect, 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.920 not for themselves, not for a LinkedIn post or you know, 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.560 sort of a self promotion thing. 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.600 Yeah, I got up there with a selfie stick or something. 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:11.040 That One of the effects of high altitude is it's 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.720 a little bit like having a dose of influenza almost. 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.800 Being a high altitude, a lot of your energy and 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.880 a lot of your drive tends to be sapped, and 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.960 people feel fit and able to cope with altitude at 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.720 different times, even during a single you know, the few 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.920 months of an expedition. So obviously you've got to get 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.360 people who are well acclimatized, who have the drive and 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.640 the enthusiasm at the right time in order to sort 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.719 of throw them towards the summit and say go to it. 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.920 And it is conceivable, though an actual fact, I'm intending 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.800 an eye worfit throughout the expedition. It would be conceivable 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.080 that at the start of an expedition there might be 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.439 a couple of people who would have been more suited 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.480 to the summer than later on. But there was I 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.000 don't think there was much doubt. At the latter stay 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.320 of the expedition. We were very fit and we were 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:06.320 very strong, so we were selected by the expedition leader 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.920 was John Hunt, as the people to put in the 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:10.560 final show. 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.600 So you mentioned obviously the Himalayan Trust before Sir Edmund 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.200 and Louise Hillary founded that in the nineteen sixties. And 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.280 while everyone obviously connects him to being the first to 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.520 have reached the summit, to ed his greatest achievement was 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.560 not climbing Everest, but in fact it was helping the 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:32.840 people of Nepal. Tell me a little bit about this 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:34.360 trust and the work that it does. 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:35.040 Well. 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.560 Yeah, so my grandfather and my grandmother founded it in 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:42.280 the nineteen sixties and the Trust essentially over the years 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:46.960 has built you know, schools and hospitals, forestry, nurseres, water systems, 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:48.560 all sorts of things for the shared people. 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:50.480 I should say, it's not just it. 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.960 It was lots of kiwis, you know, from all over 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.080 New Zealand that would come in, you know, lawyers that would. 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:58.280 Help with different things. 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:04.200 Builders, you know, doctors, teachers, a whole range of different 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.280 people that would give their time. And over the years 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.720 it's achieved a lot. You know, we've built many, many schools. 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.520 We're now supporting over one hundred schools throughout the region 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.560 and hospitals as well, and so it's this amazing legacy 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.720 for New Zealand. You know, New Zealanders have been engaged 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.160 in the three region a huge amount and I think 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.280 that's really special and it was actually amazing to sort 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.800 of celebrate that connection when we had a visit by 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.960 the Minister for Foreign Affairs Winston Peter's earlier this year. 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:36.040 And I think that was an amazing acknowledgment of that 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.520 connection because there's been a huge amount of Kiwis that 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:42.440 have contributed a lot to Himalayan communities and it continues 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.600 to this day. We continue to support the schools and 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:49.200 hospitals and we're actually partnering at the moment with another 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.720 amazing sort of New Zealand based organization called Edgitech, which 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:54.960 comes out of christ Church Micro and she Autrism, and 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.480 we're building computer aps together. So we've built fifty computer 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.520 ads in the past five years. And I think what's 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:03.760 really special about it is it's this sort of quite 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:09.040 uniquely Kiwis story of adventure and philanthropy sort of blended together, 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:13.280 about going and challenging herself doing a big adventure, but 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.400 also sort of carrying others with you and supporting people. 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.320 And I think it's a really heart warming story that 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.000 a lot of Kiwis can sider get behind. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.600 And I suppose you've been over there for fair few times. 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.600 What are the people like and what do they think 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:27.720 of New Zealand? Do they know who Sir d is. 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:30.160 It's been a huge amount of his life, you know, 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:32.960 in Nepal doing all these projects. In fact, he was 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.040 building a house at one stage before my grandmother died 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.680 in the region there and yeah, look they know him 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.760 very very fondly, and they know a lot about New Zealand. 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.480 I think for a lot of you know, Nepalese people 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.680 is a great kinship with Kiwis and if you say 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.080 you come from New Zealand, there'll always be this sort of. 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.080 Excitement around it, which is really really wonderful. 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.560 I'd love to get over there, but I for one, 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.040 not that I will be not you know, it won't 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.680 be in mountaineering, any mountains or anything like that. I'll 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:10.760 keep my feet firmly on the ground. 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:10.480 I guess in your view. 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:15.960 Lastly, what would make a more ethical sustainable everest climbing industry? 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.640 Say if I gave you ten years and an unlimited budget. 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.359 Well, I think you know, there's there's the sustainability of 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.960 you know, getting supplies and equipment up onto the mountain safely. 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.359 And it's really interesting to see what some of the 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:35.480 organizations are doing. Government organizations in Nepal are doing using 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.560 drone technology to try and get trash off the mountain 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:43.560 without having to risk people's lives. So initiatives like that 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.320 I think are really exciting. But ultimately I think it's 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:51.320 it's really about around building up strength in the industry 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:59.160 so that these businesses can essentially make sure that their 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.280 clients have the skills that they need because that's what's required, 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.600 and that there is this sort of I guess acceptance 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.320 of the fact that you have to do your apprenticeship. 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:11.920 You can't just show up without the skills and rely 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.960 on someone else to look after you and keep you safe, 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.359 because at the end of the day, those people also 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.000 need to keep themselves safe for their families. So I 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:27.000 think it's about building that sort of that culture and 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.480 ensuring that the local people have the ability to stand 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:32.840 up and actually say say no, you can come back 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.600 when you've done this and that, and then we'd love 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.960 to take you up and share this amazing, beautiful mountain 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:39.159 with you. 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.320 Thanks so much for joining us, Alexander, Thanks so much. 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.679 That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.600 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:56.720 at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.240 produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who all so 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.919 our editor, I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:08.560 on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.600 in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.