1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Kilda. 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. Just over 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: seventy years after Sir Edmund Hillary first ascended Mount Everest, 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 2: the world's highest peak is grappling with new ethical dilemmas, 6 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 2: from crowded summit attempts and ecological strain to debates about 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 2: climate preparedness and the treatment of sherper's. Everest's story today 8 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 2: is just as complex as ever. The Himalayan Trust, founded 9 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 2: by Sir ed and his wife, continues to support local 10 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: communities at the heart of these challenges. His grandson, Alexander 11 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: Hillary now runs the organization and joins us now on 12 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: the Front Page to discuss what respecting Everest means and 13 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: whether we still do so. Alexander has climbing Mount Everest become, 14 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 2: I suppose, more of a commercial venture nowadays rather than 15 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: a personal or spiritual challenge. 16 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 3: Do you think, well, I think it's changed a lot 17 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 3: over the years. So when my grandfather first climbed it, 18 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 3: there was all sorts of things going on then as well. 19 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 3: There was the Commonwealth, but then there was also this 20 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 3: sort of curiosity for achieving the impossible, I think today, 21 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 3: you know, whilst in nineteen ninety sort of commercial mountaineering started, 22 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 3: so it's a really really new industry and I think 23 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 3: that's what people talk about when they talk about sort 24 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: of climbing Everest is really what's been happening since nineteen 25 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 3: ninety to today, and it is becoming quite a very 26 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: important commercial venture. There's been a lot of sort of 27 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 3: negative talk around that, and I think it is important 28 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 3: to remember that this has you know, enormous value both 29 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 3: to the Sherpa people, but also you know, to mountaineering 30 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 3: as a whole, because it's this incredibly iconic thing, climbing Everest. 31 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 3: It's the epitome of accomplishment for a lot of people. 32 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: What has the booming climbing industry. What kind of effect 33 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: has it had on local Sherber communities, I guess economically, 34 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 2: socially or culturally even unbelievable. 35 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 3: So when my grandfather first arrived, you know, in the 36 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 3: Solukumbu region, which is the Everest region of Nepal, it 37 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 3: was the poorest region of one of the poorest countries 38 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 3: in the world. So they were a subsistence farmers living 39 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 3: in a pretty inhospitable place at high altitude and it 40 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 3: was very very tough living that they were living having. 41 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 3: So when the everest industry started, a lot of Nepalis 42 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 3: would start working in the industry because you could make 43 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 3: a lot of money through it, and they were very talented, 44 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 3: you know where looking at high altitude, they were strong, 45 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 3: well acclimatized. But they would go up onto the mountain 46 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 3: for a couple of months every year and they would 47 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 3: make you know, in many cases, and this is the 48 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 3: case today, they will to make more in a couple 49 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 3: of months than the average national salary of Nepal. So 50 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 3: from that perspective, it's well worth the time of getting 51 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 3: up onto the mountain and spending a couple of months 52 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 3: of hard work there. And it's just meant huge changes. 53 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 3: The climbers that are now working on Everest, they own businesses, 54 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: They have trecking businesses, guiding businesses on mount everests, they 55 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 3: have lodges, shops, helicopter companies even, and it's just meant 56 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 3: that the change in lives and livelihoods in the region 57 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 3: is pretty unbelievable. 58 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: And you mentioned kind of the commercial ability. That's not 59 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: even a word, but let's pretend it is. From the 60 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: nineteen nineties onwards. How I guess, how does social media culture, 61 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: how does that even change? I suppose from the mid 62 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: two thousands up until now that that need or want 63 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: or desire or you know, that bucket list kind of 64 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: thing of making it up Everest. 65 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 66 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because you know, Everest is looked at 67 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 3: as the you know, it's the tallest mountain, and it's 68 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 3: one of these things that we think of as sort 69 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: of the epitome of accomplishment. But social media is really 70 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 3: blowing it open and showed us the bit by bit 71 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 3: sort of steps to achieve a mountain like Everest, and 72 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 3: I think, you know, that's that's opened up a lot 73 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: of controversy, rubbish cues other people, and I think the 74 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 3: New Zealanders it can be quite abrupt to see, you know, 75 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 3: we go to the mountains to sort of be at 76 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 3: one with nature, to have this experience of solitude and admiration, 77 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,799 Speaker 3: and that's you know, often what we see on Everest. 78 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: You know, at the moment, it's it's not what. 79 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 3: We see through social media, but there is I think 80 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 3: there's there's a lot of sort of misguide that nests 81 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 3: through the stuff that we're seeing on social media. 82 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: For instance, one of the. 83 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 3: Famous things in recent years has been the cues on Interest. 84 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 3: But you know, only a few days after that famous 85 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 3: photo was taken, the mountain was almost empty and climbers 86 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 3: standing on the salmon of Everest just you know, a 87 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 3: couple of their teammates. So there is something quite misleading 88 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 3: about that, But it also has you know, exposed a 89 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 3: lot of the sort of more complicated truths of the 90 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 3: risk industry as well. 91 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 4: Hundreds of people now go up every year, and commercial 92 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 4: expeditions haven't just significantly increased access to the mountain, they've 93 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 4: also increased comfort. There are now luxury expeditions that can 94 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 4: cost up to one hundred and thirty thousand dollars, offering 95 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 4: things like heated tents with diving tables, and at this 96 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 4: point we should probably talk about how all those amenities 97 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 4: and indeed most climbers get up the mountain, and that's 98 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 4: with shirpers well. The whelming majority of expeditions rely on 99 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 4: shelpers to do everything from carrying supplies to putting up 100 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 4: tents to setting the ropes and ladders. They are absolutely 101 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 4: integral to commercial expeditions, as the sherper will readily tell. 102 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: You how many of the clients that you see coming 103 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 2: to Everest could do it without you? 104 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: I would say zero zero, yeah, none of them. None 105 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: of them. 106 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: And do you think that social media gives the impression 107 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: that like anyone can go up there? I mean, you 108 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: do have to put in the hard yards and train 109 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: for months before heading to Everest. 110 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 3: I would think, well, months or years really, And I 111 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 3: think that's where things have gotten a bit wrong, because 112 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 3: before nineteen nineteen, for two thousand, you know, this was 113 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 3: the pinnacle of achievement of a mountaineous career. That might 114 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 3: be you know, they may have started climbing in their 115 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 3: twenties and then in their late forties they finally go 116 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 3: right to I'm going to go for Everest and they 117 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 3: climb it. And difference between Like in those days when 118 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 3: my dad climbed it, they were climbing in a team, 119 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 3: but they were each responsible for decisions themselves. They decided well, 120 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: they cooked for themselves, They made decisions about snow conditions, 121 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 3: about weather, about when to turn back, about how to 122 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 3: climb the mountain. Today that's not happening so much. 123 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: A lot of that. 124 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 3: Responsibility is being put to guides and I think that's 125 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 3: that is a bit of an issue, is you've got 126 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: people showing up to the mountain that haven't put in 127 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 3: the work required to turn themselves into a really skilled mountaineer. 128 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 3: You know, you need to be a really skilled mountaineer 129 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 3: to take on Mount Everest. It's not good enough just 130 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 3: to have a very basic understanding, you know, of snowcraft. 131 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 3: And I think you know, social media and this whole 132 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 3: sort of attitude around the youngest or stuff like that 133 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 3: of being the first person does sort of stray us 134 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 3: away from what mountaineering is really about. 135 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: And what is mountaineering really about? 136 00:07:58,720 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: Well, I think that's. 137 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 3: Different question for each person, but I think mountaineering on 138 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 3: its whole is like what's so you know, rewarding about 139 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 3: mountaineering is it's about the challenge, and it's about proficiency 140 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 3: of skills. You know, you have to make decisions around 141 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 3: whether your own personal ability, you know, the snow conditions, 142 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 3: and it's it's about sort of gaining those skills and 143 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 3: then putting your those skills to practice in the mountain 144 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 3: environment and coming out successful and alive. And you know, 145 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 3: it's it's an amazing sport to be involved in, but 146 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 3: you need to be careful because the consequences are incredibly serious, 147 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 3: not just for yourself but for others as well. And 148 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 3: I yeah, I think we need to go back to 149 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 3: sort of those roots of mountaineering and remember, you know, 150 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 3: what's at stake, And how do we do that? 151 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 2: Do you think do we restrict people? Do they need 152 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: a special certificate like I've mountaineered to Certificate five so 153 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 2: I can tackle Everest or something like that. How do 154 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: we stop people who are so unprepared from giving it 155 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: a go. 156 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 3: Well, I think, you know, there's a certain amount of 157 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 3: sort of rules and regulations that you can solve with this. 158 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 3: But ultimately, and Nepal is doing some of that stuff. 159 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 3: They're saying you now need to climb a six thousand 160 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 3: meter peak in Nepal before you tackle. 161 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: An eight thousand meter peak. But rarely this needs to. 162 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 3: Come from a cultural shift, a shift where we acknowledge that, 163 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 3: you know, before you climb Everest, you need to be 164 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 3: able to climb Mount Rupe who and you know be 165 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 3: able to do you know, just take small steps up 166 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 3: towards big goals and remember that you know you can't. 167 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 3: While it may be extraordinary to go from zero to 168 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 3: one hundred from nothing to climbing Everest. It's better to 169 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 3: build those skills, build that experience. 170 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: Up to an incredible accomplishment. 171 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 3: And I think there's something way more rewarding about that 172 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 3: journey to than just being able to say I ticked 173 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 3: the box. 174 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: I still on the summit of Everest. 175 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: Because you see online, don't you that people like, well, 176 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 2: should we ban it all together? Is it the end 177 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: of you know, traveling up Everest? Should we leave it 178 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 2: alone or something? But in reality, if a full ban 179 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 2: was to take place, the Nepalese community would suffer immensely, right, 180 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 2: Like a lot of them require this tourism industry to 181 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: stay alive, absolutely. 182 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 3: So, Like the Hamlan Trust was set up with my 183 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 3: grandfather and he recognized that there was this great need 184 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 3: for sort of education and healthcare and different infrastructure to projects. 185 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 3: And we've been working on that for over sixty years. 186 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 3: But you know the other part of that is the 187 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 3: economy and industry, and Everest is the center of that 188 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 3: for the people that we're working with. It's what draws 189 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 3: people in, It's what provides tourism jobs, it's what funds 190 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 3: and fuels agriculture and all different trading so it is 191 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 3: really really critical. But you know, again I sort of 192 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 3: think about it. You know, Everest is is like you 193 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 3: know the Milford Sound, you know, for Nepal, we can't 194 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 3: just shut it off and say no one's going to 195 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 3: go there. It's this where we're both countries that are 196 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 3: really lucky to have these really special tongue are these 197 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 3: special places of you know, international global significance, and we 198 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 3: need to learn how to to you know, look after 199 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 3: them sustainably, to cherish them, and to develop a really 200 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 3: good culture around interacting with these places, these spaces, not 201 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 3: sort of having a reactionary sort of we're going to 202 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 3: shut this off or we're going to just totally totally 203 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 3: blow it open, and that's not you know, I think 204 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 3: it's something that comes from rules and regulation. That's something 205 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 3: you know, a cultural shift that we need to create. 206 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think that we've lost respect for Mount Everest? 207 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 3: I think maybe a little bit. But I think there 208 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 3: are so many people that you know, love that mountain 209 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 3: and have so much respect for the mountain. You know, 210 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 3: the shirt people, it's of enormous significance. It's chom Longma, 211 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 3: It's the mother god of the world. And I think, 212 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 3: you know, it is a beautiful mountain despite everything that 213 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 3: gets said about it. It's got so many different aspects, 214 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 3: beautiful routes that haven't been climbed some of them, and 215 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 3: people doing amazing things and sort of you know, just recently, 216 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 3: Jim Morrison did an incredible first ski descent off down 217 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 3: off Mountain Everest on the north side, which is just 218 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 3: this sort of wonderful, hopeful, exciting story of mountaineering and accomplishment, 219 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 3: really pushing the envelope of what can be achieved, and 220 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 3: it was something that sort of, I guess honored the mountain, 221 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 3: and I think we need to sort of, you know, 222 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 3: really connect with that, and each person that wants to 223 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 3: sort of go and climb Everest and embark on that adventure, 224 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 3: I think needs to do it from a place of respect, 225 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 3: not for themselves, not for a LinkedIn post or you know, 226 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 3: sort of a self promotion thing. 227 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I got up there with a selfie stick or something. 228 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 5: That One of the effects of high altitude is it's 229 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 5: a little bit like having a dose of influenza almost. 230 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 5: Being a high altitude, a lot of your energy and 231 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 5: a lot of your drive tends to be sapped, and 232 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 5: people feel fit and able to cope with altitude at 233 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 5: different times, even during a single you know, the few 234 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 5: months of an expedition. So obviously you've got to get 235 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 5: people who are well acclimatized, who have the drive and 236 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 5: the enthusiasm at the right time in order to sort 237 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,719 Speaker 5: of throw them towards the summit and say go to it. 238 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 5: And it is conceivable, though an actual fact, I'm intending 239 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 5: an eye worfit throughout the expedition. It would be conceivable 240 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 5: that at the start of an expedition there might be 241 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 5: a couple of people who would have been more suited 242 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 5: to the summer than later on. But there was I 243 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 5: don't think there was much doubt. At the latter stay 244 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 5: of the expedition. We were very fit and we were 245 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 5: very strong, so we were selected by the expedition leader 246 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 5: was John Hunt, as the people to put in the 247 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 5: final show. 248 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 2: So you mentioned obviously the Himalayan Trust before Sir Edmund 249 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: and Louise Hillary founded that in the nineteen sixties. And 250 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 2: while everyone obviously connects him to being the first to 251 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 2: have reached the summit, to ed his greatest achievement was 252 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: not climbing Everest, but in fact it was helping the 253 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 2: people of Nepal. Tell me a little bit about this 254 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 2: trust and the work that it does. 255 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: Well. 256 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, so my grandfather and my grandmother founded it in 257 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 3: the nineteen sixties and the Trust essentially over the years 258 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 3: has built you know, schools and hospitals, forestry, nurseres, water systems, 259 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 3: all sorts of things for the shared people. 260 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: I should say, it's not just it. 261 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 3: It was lots of kiwis, you know, from all over 262 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 3: New Zealand that would come in, you know, lawyers that would. 263 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: Help with different things. 264 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 3: Builders, you know, doctors, teachers, a whole range of different 265 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: people that would give their time. And over the years 266 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 3: it's achieved a lot. You know, we've built many, many schools. 267 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 3: We're now supporting over one hundred schools throughout the region 268 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 3: and hospitals as well, and so it's this amazing legacy 269 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 3: for New Zealand. You know, New Zealanders have been engaged 270 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 3: in the three region a huge amount and I think 271 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 3: that's really special and it was actually amazing to sort 272 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 3: of celebrate that connection when we had a visit by 273 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 3: the Minister for Foreign Affairs Winston Peter's earlier this year. 274 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 3: And I think that was an amazing acknowledgment of that 275 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 3: connection because there's been a huge amount of Kiwis that 276 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 3: have contributed a lot to Himalayan communities and it continues 277 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 3: to this day. We continue to support the schools and 278 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 3: hospitals and we're actually partnering at the moment with another 279 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 3: amazing sort of New Zealand based organization called Edgitech, which 280 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 3: comes out of christ Church Micro and she Autrism, and 281 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 3: we're building computer aps together. So we've built fifty computer 282 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 3: ads in the past five years. And I think what's 283 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 3: really special about it is it's this sort of quite 284 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 3: uniquely Kiwis story of adventure and philanthropy sort of blended together, 285 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 3: about going and challenging herself doing a big adventure, but 286 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 3: also sort of carrying others with you and supporting people. 287 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 3: And I think it's a really heart warming story that 288 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 3: a lot of Kiwis can sider get behind. 289 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 2: And I suppose you've been over there for fair few times. 290 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 2: What are the people like and what do they think 291 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: of New Zealand? Do they know who Sir d is. 292 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 3: It's been a huge amount of his life, you know, 293 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 3: in Nepal doing all these projects. In fact, he was 294 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 3: building a house at one stage before my grandmother died 295 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 3: in the region there and yeah, look they know him 296 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 3: very very fondly, and they know a lot about New Zealand. 297 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 3: I think for a lot of you know, Nepalese people 298 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 3: is a great kinship with Kiwis and if you say 299 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 3: you come from New Zealand, there'll always be this sort of. 300 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: Excitement around it, which is really really wonderful. 301 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 2: I'd love to get over there, but I for one, 302 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: not that I will be not you know, it won't 303 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 2: be in mountaineering, any mountains or anything like that. I'll 304 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 2: keep my feet firmly on the ground. 305 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: I guess in your view. 306 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 2: Lastly, what would make a more ethical sustainable everest climbing industry? 307 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 2: Say if I gave you ten years and an unlimited budget. 308 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 3: Well, I think you know, there's there's the sustainability of 309 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 3: you know, getting supplies and equipment up onto the mountain safely. 310 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 3: And it's really interesting to see what some of the 311 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 3: organizations are doing. Government organizations in Nepal are doing using 312 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 3: drone technology to try and get trash off the mountain 313 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 3: without having to risk people's lives. So initiatives like that 314 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 3: I think are really exciting. But ultimately I think it's 315 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 3: it's really about around building up strength in the industry 316 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 3: so that these businesses can essentially make sure that their 317 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 3: clients have the skills that they need because that's what's required, 318 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 3: and that there is this sort of I guess acceptance 319 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 3: of the fact that you have to do your apprenticeship. 320 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 3: You can't just show up without the skills and rely 321 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 3: on someone else to look after you and keep you safe, 322 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 3: because at the end of the day, those people also 323 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 3: need to keep themselves safe for their families. So I 324 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 3: think it's about building that sort of that culture and 325 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 3: ensuring that the local people have the ability to stand 326 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 3: up and actually say say no, you can come back 327 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 3: when you've done this and that, and then we'd love 328 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 3: to take you up and share this amazing, beautiful mountain 329 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 3: with you. 330 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us, Alexander, Thanks so much. 331 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You 332 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 333 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 2: at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 334 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 2: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who all so 335 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 2: our editor, I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page 336 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 337 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 2: in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.