1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:11,693 Speaker 1: from News Talks at BE. 3 00:00:12,733 --> 00:00:16,053 Speaker 2: The Department of Conservation is currently asking for public feedback 4 00:00:16,093 --> 00:00:19,533 Speaker 2: on its Predator Free twenty fifty strategy. One of the 5 00:00:19,573 --> 00:00:23,333 Speaker 2: big questions they ask is whether the feral cats should 6 00:00:23,373 --> 00:00:26,213 Speaker 2: be added to the target species list along with you know, 7 00:00:26,253 --> 00:00:28,773 Speaker 2: eur ratzy stotcy possums and things. And this is something 8 00:00:28,813 --> 00:00:31,093 Speaker 2: that Predator Free New Zealand Trust is really passionate about 9 00:00:31,133 --> 00:00:33,893 Speaker 2: and joining me now is their chief executive Jesse Morgan. 10 00:00:33,933 --> 00:00:37,973 Speaker 2: Good morning, Jesse, morning, Francesca. Hey, Yeah, how many feral 11 00:00:38,013 --> 00:00:39,053 Speaker 2: cats are there out there? 12 00:00:40,253 --> 00:00:43,293 Speaker 3: Well, we actually don't know, which is part of the problem, 13 00:00:43,293 --> 00:00:46,093 Speaker 3: but estimates are between two and a half million and 14 00:00:46,213 --> 00:00:49,173 Speaker 3: fourteen million, so there's a lot. There's a huge number 15 00:00:49,173 --> 00:00:52,413 Speaker 3: of cats in our native bush and and our forests 16 00:00:52,453 --> 00:00:54,693 Speaker 3: that we don't even really see or know about. 17 00:00:55,013 --> 00:00:57,093 Speaker 2: Potentially fourteen million. 18 00:00:57,653 --> 00:01:02,573 Speaker 3: Crazy, isn't it? Like so many? We also this number 19 00:01:02,613 --> 00:01:05,453 Speaker 3: of owned cats in the world, so per household in 20 00:01:05,453 --> 00:01:09,173 Speaker 3: the world, so we have about one point two million 21 00:01:09,253 --> 00:01:12,373 Speaker 3: owned cats as well to add to that. But yeah, 22 00:01:12,413 --> 00:01:17,133 Speaker 3: the feral cat numbers are rageous, really, and we don't 23 00:01:17,173 --> 00:01:20,053 Speaker 3: really have a good handle on the number of cats 24 00:01:20,053 --> 00:01:22,213 Speaker 3: that are out there, But we know people that are 25 00:01:22,253 --> 00:01:25,293 Speaker 3: spending time working in the bush. They all tell us 26 00:01:25,293 --> 00:01:29,213 Speaker 3: they just see them everywhere or on their game cameras 27 00:01:29,253 --> 00:01:29,693 Speaker 3: and stuff. 28 00:01:29,853 --> 00:01:31,293 Speaker 2: So once upon a time we used to say there 29 00:01:31,333 --> 00:01:33,693 Speaker 2: were more sheep in New Zealand than there were New Zealanders. 30 00:01:33,693 --> 00:01:37,053 Speaker 2: So we'll be saying they're all feral cats in New Zealand. 31 00:01:38,133 --> 00:01:39,493 Speaker 3: We're heading that way definitely. 32 00:01:40,373 --> 00:01:42,733 Speaker 2: So why are they not on the predator Free twenty 33 00:01:42,773 --> 00:01:44,573 Speaker 2: fifty target species list already? 34 00:01:45,813 --> 00:01:49,373 Speaker 3: Well, when the goal was initially announced in twenty and sixteen, 35 00:01:49,853 --> 00:01:52,453 Speaker 3: I think that New Zealand as a country wasn't really 36 00:01:52,493 --> 00:01:54,813 Speaker 3: ready for it. We hadn't really had the conversation, and 37 00:01:54,813 --> 00:01:57,293 Speaker 3: we weren't aware of the damage that feral cats were 38 00:01:57,293 --> 00:02:01,293 Speaker 3: doing to our native species. But that perception has changed 39 00:02:01,333 --> 00:02:04,293 Speaker 3: in the last kind of ten years. It's hugely shifted 40 00:02:04,773 --> 00:02:07,933 Speaker 3: and people really understand that feral cats are having a 41 00:02:07,973 --> 00:02:12,933 Speaker 3: massive impact on our native species, and so there's a 42 00:02:12,973 --> 00:02:16,973 Speaker 3: willingness now and awareness and a public wants this. 43 00:02:18,293 --> 00:02:20,533 Speaker 2: What I didn't realize is that these cats, they're not 44 00:02:20,693 --> 00:02:23,053 Speaker 2: keeping the rats and mice and check is you might 45 00:02:23,093 --> 00:02:23,853 Speaker 2: expect them to. 46 00:02:25,893 --> 00:02:30,253 Speaker 3: No they just can't of them, and the rats can 47 00:02:30,493 --> 00:02:34,053 Speaker 3: bre quickly that we can't keep up with them. It's 48 00:02:34,053 --> 00:02:36,293 Speaker 3: the same as rabbits, you know, the feral cats aren't 49 00:02:36,333 --> 00:02:39,093 Speaker 3: keeping on top of rat numbers either. Actually, what happens 50 00:02:39,533 --> 00:02:43,493 Speaker 3: is a number of rats and mice and rabbits increase 51 00:02:43,533 --> 00:02:46,333 Speaker 3: the feral cat numbers because there's more food out there. 52 00:02:46,693 --> 00:02:50,213 Speaker 3: So yeah, so they can't you know that myths. I 53 00:02:50,213 --> 00:02:51,773 Speaker 3: guess that we grew up with that will have a 54 00:02:51,813 --> 00:02:54,813 Speaker 3: barm cat and that will keep our mice and rats 55 00:02:54,813 --> 00:02:57,533 Speaker 3: at bait. Isn't isn't true. We've got really good traps 56 00:02:57,533 --> 00:02:59,293 Speaker 3: and other tools to do that. 57 00:02:59,413 --> 00:03:01,373 Speaker 2: Now, what kind of damage are they doing? 58 00:03:03,253 --> 00:03:06,453 Speaker 3: They well, they're an apex predator in New zeal And, 59 00:03:06,853 --> 00:03:10,933 Speaker 3: so nothing else predates on them. So unless humans control them, 60 00:03:12,213 --> 00:03:15,693 Speaker 3: nothing else controls their number. But we know that they 61 00:03:15,813 --> 00:03:20,293 Speaker 3: are found from the you know, from all the way 62 00:03:20,373 --> 00:03:23,373 Speaker 3: up to alpine zones, and they hunt for fun, they 63 00:03:23,413 --> 00:03:26,533 Speaker 3: don't just hunt for hunger, and so they they're huge 64 00:03:26,573 --> 00:03:33,053 Speaker 3: impact on our native species duck ya. So of of 65 00:03:33,093 --> 00:03:37,693 Speaker 3: the of the the Nelson Lakes, fifty percent were done 66 00:03:37,733 --> 00:03:41,813 Speaker 3: by feral cats, the other fifty percent by stouts. Last 67 00:03:41,893 --> 00:03:45,573 Speaker 3: year one cat destroyed a whole colony of endangered urn 68 00:03:45,693 --> 00:03:48,893 Speaker 3: nests on a braided river down on Canterbury. And they 69 00:03:48,893 --> 00:03:52,133 Speaker 3: eat lizards, they eat bats. There's this famous story of 70 00:03:52,293 --> 00:03:55,133 Speaker 3: them of one cat clearing out a whole roost of 71 00:03:55,213 --> 00:03:58,533 Speaker 3: bats outside oh Kerney. I think it was about one 72 00:03:58,613 --> 00:04:01,373 Speaker 3: hundred and ten bats within a week and the cat 73 00:04:01,453 --> 00:04:05,013 Speaker 3: just kept going back and even the bats sorry every 74 00:04:05,093 --> 00:04:06,333 Speaker 3: night until they were gone. 75 00:04:07,293 --> 00:04:09,533 Speaker 2: Okay, So clearly it's going to make a difference if 76 00:04:09,533 --> 00:04:14,373 Speaker 2: we add them to the list and humanely remove them. 77 00:04:14,453 --> 00:04:18,253 Speaker 3: Yes, it will. And by not adding them now, we 78 00:04:18,293 --> 00:04:20,653 Speaker 3: won't be able to add them to twenty thirty. And 79 00:04:20,773 --> 00:04:23,613 Speaker 3: so what that means is we're behind the eight ball 80 00:04:23,773 --> 00:04:27,733 Speaker 3: on the Predator Free mission, but we're then a limiting 81 00:04:27,813 --> 00:04:31,773 Speaker 3: kind of funding, research control work in the policy developed 82 00:04:31,853 --> 00:04:36,373 Speaker 3: development that's needed for us to eradicate feral cats across 83 00:04:36,413 --> 00:04:36,933 Speaker 3: New Zealand. 84 00:04:37,253 --> 00:04:40,173 Speaker 2: Okay, so GeSe DOC is currently consulting on a strategy. 85 00:04:40,253 --> 00:04:42,813 Speaker 2: How can people contribute and have their say? 86 00:04:43,333 --> 00:04:46,253 Speaker 4: Yeah, they can either have this saves through the doc 87 00:04:46,373 --> 00:04:50,133 Speaker 4: website or we've created a quick submit form on our 88 00:04:50,173 --> 00:04:54,493 Speaker 4: own website that's under Predator Free z dot org forward 89 00:04:54,613 --> 00:04:58,493 Speaker 4: slash submit and so they can go in there and 90 00:04:58,773 --> 00:05:01,533 Speaker 4: write their thoughts on adding feral cats to the list. 91 00:05:02,133 --> 00:05:04,413 Speaker 2: If we take a look just in general at this 92 00:05:04,573 --> 00:05:07,373 Speaker 2: mission to be predator free in twenty fifty, how are 93 00:05:07,373 --> 00:05:08,053 Speaker 2: we doing. 94 00:05:09,653 --> 00:05:12,773 Speaker 3: Well? We're doing pretty well. I mean if you think 95 00:05:12,813 --> 00:05:15,133 Speaker 3: about when we announced this goal, we had no idea 96 00:05:15,213 --> 00:05:16,853 Speaker 3: on how we were going to do it. It was 97 00:05:16,853 --> 00:05:20,813 Speaker 3: a hugely ambitious goal and there was no recipe for 98 00:05:20,893 --> 00:05:24,093 Speaker 3: us to follow. So we've had these we've funded these 99 00:05:24,173 --> 00:05:29,693 Speaker 3: large landscape scale projects across the country including Predator Free Wellington, 100 00:05:30,213 --> 00:05:34,853 Speaker 3: Preda Free Katanaky WAYHIKEI And they've made these huge impacts 101 00:05:35,013 --> 00:05:38,653 Speaker 3: and you know, huge steps forward, I guess in our 102 00:05:38,773 --> 00:05:42,493 Speaker 3: learning of how we control predators in different environments, because 103 00:05:42,493 --> 00:05:44,773 Speaker 3: if we're going to do this, we can't just do 104 00:05:44,853 --> 00:05:47,213 Speaker 3: it on public conservation land. We need to do it 105 00:05:47,253 --> 00:05:52,933 Speaker 3: on productive landscapes and urban urban areas. So we need 106 00:05:52,973 --> 00:05:55,813 Speaker 3: to know how to control predators in these different places. 107 00:05:56,173 --> 00:05:57,373 Speaker 3: So that's going pretty well. 108 00:05:57,573 --> 00:06:00,533 Speaker 2: And look, Juzie, just sorry. Going back to the feral cats, 109 00:06:00,573 --> 00:06:02,533 Speaker 2: I should have asked, if we are going to remove 110 00:06:02,573 --> 00:06:04,773 Speaker 2: them humanly, what does that mean? Because there can be 111 00:06:04,773 --> 00:06:07,213 Speaker 2: a little there is often some contra and the methods 112 00:06:07,213 --> 00:06:09,013 Speaker 2: that we use to try and control pests. 113 00:06:10,173 --> 00:06:12,973 Speaker 3: Yeah, so well. Actually, one of the first things we'll 114 00:06:12,973 --> 00:06:16,333 Speaker 3: need to do if we add feral cats to the 115 00:06:16,373 --> 00:06:19,133 Speaker 3: list is make sure we have a clear way of 116 00:06:19,213 --> 00:06:23,013 Speaker 3: identifying an owned cat. Feral cats are really different from 117 00:06:23,013 --> 00:06:26,253 Speaker 3: our other predators because there also cats are also an 118 00:06:26,253 --> 00:06:29,813 Speaker 3: important companion animal in New Zealand. So the first thing 119 00:06:29,853 --> 00:06:32,373 Speaker 3: we'll need to do is have mandatory kind of desexing 120 00:06:32,373 --> 00:06:35,733 Speaker 3: and microchipping so that our owned cats aren't contributing to 121 00:06:35,813 --> 00:06:38,893 Speaker 3: the problem and we can identify what as an owned 122 00:06:38,973 --> 00:06:41,973 Speaker 3: cat and they won't get caught up. At the moment, 123 00:06:42,053 --> 00:06:45,893 Speaker 3: we can't do any cat control near urban areas because 124 00:06:45,933 --> 00:06:49,493 Speaker 3: we run that risk of impacting a companion cat, which 125 00:06:49,533 --> 00:06:52,773 Speaker 3: we don't want to do. So there are a huge 126 00:06:52,813 --> 00:06:55,733 Speaker 3: number of tools out there. We know that DOC has 127 00:06:55,773 --> 00:06:59,533 Speaker 3: been working on some baits so feral cats for down 128 00:06:59,573 --> 00:07:03,173 Speaker 3: on Auckland Islands, so some toxic baits, but there's also 129 00:07:03,213 --> 00:07:05,893 Speaker 3: a lot of trapping that goes on. Community groups are 130 00:07:05,933 --> 00:07:10,533 Speaker 3: already doing this across the country, but by not having 131 00:07:10,613 --> 00:07:13,773 Speaker 3: them on the list, we're limiting the research and development 132 00:07:13,813 --> 00:07:16,413 Speaker 3: that's going into new tools, and we will need new 133 00:07:16,453 --> 00:07:17,813 Speaker 3: tools in different areas. 134 00:07:18,293 --> 00:07:20,733 Speaker 2: Wonderful, Thank you so much, Jesse. That was Jesse Morgan, 135 00:07:21,213 --> 00:07:26,573 Speaker 2: chief executive, Chief executive of Predator Free New Zealand Trust. 136 00:07:26,613 --> 00:07:28,213 Speaker 2: If you want some information, you can head there or 137 00:07:28,253 --> 00:07:30,293 Speaker 2: head to the Department of Conservation if you would like 138 00:07:30,333 --> 00:07:31,773 Speaker 2: to have your say for 139 00:07:31,893 --> 00:07:34,933 Speaker 1: More from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, Listen live to 140 00:07:35,053 --> 00:07:38,053 Speaker 1: news talks that'd be from nine am Saturday, or follow 141 00:07:38,093 --> 00:07:39,693 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.