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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to this episode of Shared Lunch. We

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Speaker 1: were going to focus on the Australian market off the

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Speaker 1: back of the recent earning season.

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Speaker 2: We're also going to chat about what to.

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Speaker 1: Look for when investing in small to medium sized companies.

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Speaker 3: Investing involves for risk you might lose the money you

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Speaker 3: start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor.

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Speaker 3: We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest.

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Speaker 3: Everything you're about to see and here is current at

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Speaker 3: the time of recording.

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Speaker 1: My name's Sonya Williams. I'm the co founder and co

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Speaker 1: CEO at Shears's and today I'm joined by the City

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Speaker 1: based Michelle Lopez, head of Australasian Equities and portfolio manager

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Speaker 1: at Pie Funds. Welcome, Michelle, Hi, Sonja. Before we get started,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land,

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Speaker 1: water and sky on which we come to you from today,

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Speaker 1: the Gettigill people of the Aura nation, and pay my

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Speaker 1: respects to their elders, past, present and emerging.

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Speaker 2: So thanks Heeps for joining us. Michelle.

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Speaker 1: Before we get into it chatting all things a six,

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Speaker 1: can you tell us about you and what does a

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Speaker 1: day to day look like for you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Sure.

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Speaker 4: Firstly, thanks very much for having me on your podcast, Sonya.

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Speaker 4: I'm always really happy to share a bit about the

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Speaker 4: exciting world of investing and really what.

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Speaker 5: Moves and shakes it.

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Speaker 4: So, as you mentioned, I'm based here in Sydney, and

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Speaker 4: as the accent is probably given away, I am at

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Speaker 4: Aussie and by a way of background, I joined Pithon's

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Speaker 4: early last year in twenty twenty three as a portfolio

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Speaker 4: manager and as you mentioned, head of this Australation equity team,

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Speaker 4: and I brought with me probably twenty years of experience

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Speaker 4: investing inequities, most recently as the head of OSSI Equities

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Speaker 4: at a large global fund manager, where I trained very

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Speaker 4: much much on the job as a fundamental analyst and really.

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Speaker 5: Lucky to have learned.

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Speaker 4: From some incredibly well respected and successful portfolio managers and

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Speaker 4: fund managers in the region.

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Speaker 1: Markets are volatile of nature, and especially of late we've

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Speaker 1: seen the A six has been down in the recent

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Speaker 1: days due to some concerns around the US growth. Did

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Speaker 1: this have any bearing to the end of the earning

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Speaker 1: season in Australia. Yes, so.

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Speaker 5: August which we've just come out of.

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Speaker 4: You would think was a pretty you know, benign month

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Speaker 4: if you looked at the performance over the month, which

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Speaker 4: was virtually flat, but it certainly had a lot of volatility.

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Speaker 4: And to your point, Sonya, the first week of August,

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Speaker 4: you know, we had a five percent draw down which

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Speaker 4: was which is quite brutal, and then it just recovered

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Speaker 4: all of that as we sort of progressed through it.

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Speaker 5: To your point, yes, a.

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Speaker 4: Big driver was started coming out of the US, but

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Speaker 4: as as you would.

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Speaker 5: Know, August is really all about earnings.

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Speaker 4: For US and companies reporting, so we saw a lot

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Speaker 4: of big moves just on a stop by stock basis.

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Speaker 4: And again if I sort of think through and I

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Speaker 4: considered the earnings outcomes, again at a high level, it

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Speaker 4: looked like it was quite evenly matched between companies that

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Speaker 4: beat expectations and those that missed expectations. But again looking

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Speaker 4: underneath the surface, there was there was a lot of

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Speaker 4: callouts from the reporting season. The first, first and biggest

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Speaker 4: trend that we saw and this probably isn't going to

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Speaker 4: be a surprise for most was really around the cost

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Speaker 4: of living pressures and these remained persistent and widespread. So

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Speaker 4: there are a number of companies referring to changed consumer

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Speaker 4: behaviors in response to kind of household budget pressures.

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Speaker 5: And this was across the board, So this.

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Speaker 4: Was retailers, it was supermarkets, which you think are quite defensive,

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Speaker 4: It was the utility players, it was travel. However, I

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Speaker 4: would actually say that the consumer has shown great resilience

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Speaker 4: if you think about sort of where we've come from

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Speaker 4: from an interest rate perspective and inflation being really high,

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Speaker 4: and in fact we're starting to see signs that the

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Speaker 4: trough in the consumer activity is could be behind us.

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Speaker 4: So that'd be the first one. The second one is margins.

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Speaker 4: So interesting that ebit DA, which is earnings before interest, tax,

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Speaker 4: depreciation and amaltization, which is quite a common terminology in

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Speaker 4: our market. The margins were revised lower for every single

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Speaker 4: sector throughout August, and you know, one of the key

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Speaker 4: drivers obviously inflation. But in our view again looking forward,

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Speaker 4: which is really important is we feel that the margins

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Speaker 4: should begin to recover from here. So we are seeing

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Speaker 4: cost stabilize and importantly we're seeing labor supply improving and

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Speaker 4: then maybe the final ones balance sheets.

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Speaker 5: So balance sheets are strong.

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Speaker 4: So the Australian corporates have remained lowly geared and they've

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Speaker 4: had shown actually very little appetite to lever up. As

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Speaker 4: you would know, we're probably at an inflection point from

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Speaker 4: a rates perspective in Australia. We're lagging probably New Zealand

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Speaker 4: in that sense, so there is an expectation that cuts

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Speaker 4: will come next you And again we'll say kind of

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Speaker 4: where the balance sheets go from there, but it's meant

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Speaker 4: that there's been.

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Speaker 5: A number of buybacks that companies have been able to do.

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Speaker 4: The other thing I'd probably highlight from reporting season is

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Speaker 4: more on the guidance and the outlook statements. And again

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Speaker 4: the one thing was where companies did provide guidance, they

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Speaker 4: were very it was very conservatively set as I mentioned

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Speaker 4: the living and interest rate on uncertainties, and that actually

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Speaker 4: meant that downgrades outpaced upgrades. If you look into the

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Speaker 4: next fiscal year so FY twenty five, and on average

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Speaker 4: forty six percent of the companies had earnings downgrades and

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Speaker 4: that sort of versus twenty percent that had upgrades. So

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Speaker 4: again there was a skew to having revisions revised downwards

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Speaker 4: earnings revised downwards.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and when you say the downgrades and upgrades, do

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Speaker 1: you want to just explain that what you mean by that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, of course, So upgrades.

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Speaker 4: It essentially means that the management provide guidance that is

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Speaker 4: ahead of where market expectations are. So in our world,

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Speaker 4: earnings really drives share prices, so having an understanding of

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Speaker 4: where earnings are going.

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Speaker 5: So an upgrade is now we think earnings are going.

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Speaker 4: To be higher next year than what we originally thought,

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Speaker 4: and downgrades is the inverse of that.

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Speaker 5: So we've had to revise earnings.

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Speaker 4: Down in light of what management commentary has been.

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Speaker 1: And so were there any surprises or anything that struck

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Speaker 1: struck you as surprising?

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Speaker 6: There's always surprises, So there's always surprises, and by surprises,

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Speaker 6: the direct correlation here is just share price moves.

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Speaker 4: So when we look at the beat versus miss ratio,

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Speaker 4: a couple of things to call out. So from a

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Speaker 4: sector perspective, we had healthcare the highest rates of beats,

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Speaker 4: and then we had energy and utilities as the highest

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Speaker 4: rate of misses. But to your question on surprises, you know,

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Speaker 4: when I look at share price reactions, and in fact

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Speaker 4: I pulled out I pulled out a report just just

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Speaker 4: before our meeting, and they actually gave some numbers around

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Speaker 4: this which I thought was quite interesting.

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Speaker 5: This is a JP Morgan report, but as you'd.

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Speaker 4: Expect, so if it met expectations, share price was benign

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Speaker 4: and in line with market. If they beat consensus by

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Speaker 4: more than two percent, that those that bucket of companies

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Speaker 4: outperformed by three percent. So in a flat market, which

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Speaker 4: was what we had in August, they are up three

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Speaker 4: percent as a whole.

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Speaker 5: The interesting part is the missus.

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Speaker 4: So those companies that missed expectations by two percent or more,

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Speaker 4: that group actually fell by six percent.

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Speaker 5: And that's that skew to the downside.

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Speaker 4: Is why you'll hear industry veterans saying all the time

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Speaker 4: arou our reporting season that the goal is really to

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Speaker 4: avoid the blowups.

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Speaker 5: Because you can see that skew.

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Speaker 4: Companies that exceeded by two percent were up three those

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Speaker 4: that disappointed by two percent were down six.

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Speaker 1: Are there any particular industries that you're keeping your eye

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Speaker 1: on over the next six months.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I suppose i'd call out.

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Speaker 4: I'd probably call out three again months is a very

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Speaker 4: very short time horizon for us. But let me just

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Speaker 4: call something out and then I'll cave.

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Speaker 5: It all of it. But the first one would probably.

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Speaker 4: Be infrastructure and construction so we've got a really solid pipeline.

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Speaker 4: It's actually one point seven trillion worth of work for

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Speaker 4: the next seven years, and importantly, this continues to be replenished,

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Speaker 4: so there's a real tailwind within that set. And then

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Speaker 4: if I can just narrow it in more construction. In particular,

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Speaker 4: there's two hundred and forty thousand new homes that are

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Speaker 4: required annually to achieve government supply targets. We're well below

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Speaker 4: that level from an approvals perspective, and this has been

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Speaker 4: a problem now for a couple of years, but it's

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Speaker 4: really coming to a head. We've got a chronic shortage

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Speaker 4: of in housing and we need to see this addressed.

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Speaker 4: So I think over the next six months that's one

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Speaker 4: that I've sort.

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Speaker 5: Of been looking I'll be looking at closely.

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Speaker 4: The second one is probably those consumer exposed sectors.

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Speaker 5: So as I mentioned earlier, we are starting.

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Speaker 4: To see signs of a trough and consumer activity. We've

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Speaker 4: had retailers come up with trading updates throughout sort of

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Speaker 4: July and into August and showing an improvement, not a

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Speaker 4: huge improvement, but at least it's positive.

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Speaker 5: So again, we've got tax cuts.

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Speaker 4: That have started to filter through the economy, and we've

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Speaker 4: got interest rate cuts coming next year, so I think

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Speaker 4: that's going to be quite stimulatory for the consumer. And

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Speaker 4: then finally, just real estate, with interest rates now sort

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Speaker 4: of entering a new phase. I think that's going to

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Speaker 4: look interesting from a valuation perspective. But as I mentioned,

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Speaker 4: look that that's just kind of sectors, and importantly for US,

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Speaker 4: we're bottom up fundamental investors, and that means that we

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Speaker 4: approach investing at the company level rather than kind of

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Speaker 4: at a sector level.

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Speaker 1: And are there any big milestones or announcements that you're

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Speaker 1: coming up that you think will impact the markets in

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Speaker 1: any way?

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Speaker 4: Oh, there's always announcements. I mean, you just don't know

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Speaker 4: what you're going to wake up to and sort.

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Speaker 5: Of overnight moves.

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Speaker 4: But I mean, I suppose the very near term ones

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Speaker 4: that we're look looking for.

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Speaker 5: You know, macro data out of the US is always important.

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Speaker 4: Payrolls which we've had just very recently, we're about to

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Speaker 4: enter or we're in the campaigning of the politic of

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Speaker 4: the US elections, that that could have quite an impact

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Speaker 4: on our market from a policy setting perspective.

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Speaker 5: The other big sort of announcements or I suppose.

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Speaker 4: External factors if you wanted to call it, that is

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Speaker 4: just commodity prices. Just to be aware that our market

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Speaker 4: is quite levered to commodity prices for better or worse.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, they represent a large part of our exports.

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Speaker 4: So any data and announcements around China policy will have

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Speaker 4: will have an impact, will have an impact there as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a nice threat to follow there around like,

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Speaker 1: what are some of the external factors that impact the

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Speaker 1: Australian market.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I suppose, like most countries, Australia is absolutely

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Speaker 4: intertwined with global markets, so we really can't say we

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Speaker 4: sort of stand alone. So there's always going to be

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Speaker 4: external factors. I mentioned commodities. That's a big one for

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Speaker 4: us if you think about and the reason for that

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Speaker 4: if you think about the top three contributors to trade,

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Speaker 4: So our biggest exports there Idal, CALL and LNG, so

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Speaker 4: again really important.

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Speaker 5: Just the demand for those in particular.

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Speaker 4: The other one I would probably call out, and this

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Speaker 4: is again not just for Australia, but you know, geopolitics

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Speaker 4: can can really impact sort of markets and then the

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Speaker 4: energy situation.

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Speaker 5: So I try to desensitize.

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Speaker 4: Sort of big words and I don't think it's a crisis,

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Speaker 4: so we'll call it the energy transition. But again that's

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Speaker 4: that's what's proving out, is that it's slower and it's

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Speaker 4: harder than what maybe we had hoped for and what

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Speaker 4: government's policy had had sort of factored in.

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Speaker 5: And what we've also found out is it's most.

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Speaker 4: Likely going to need gas, so we've had no hydrogen

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Speaker 4: as as an example of a renewable source that we

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Speaker 4: were trying to develop, capitals being.

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Speaker 5: Sort of pulled out actually one of the major.

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Speaker 4: Ones just because there the returns are not there, so

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Speaker 4: to stimulate that level. So that's a you know, the

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Speaker 4: energy transition is another one that's that's playing playing out

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Speaker 4: in our market.

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Speaker 1: So with the US election coming up, like how does

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Speaker 1: that vector into how you know your investing decisions?

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Speaker 4: Taking a step back, what do elections mean? It could

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Speaker 4: potentially make a change in And the difficult part at

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Speaker 4: this juncture is the Biden Harris administration haven't got firm

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Speaker 4: policies in place. I think the Trump jd Vance does

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Speaker 4: have all a bit more and it's the one thing

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Speaker 4: I would say is both parties are going to be

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Speaker 4: very stimulatory, and this is typically quite positive for equity

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Speaker 4: markets if I think about the risks either one way

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Speaker 4: or the other that we're considering, So renewables as a really.

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Speaker 5: Topical policy, the Inflation Reduction Act.

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Speaker 4: Which was introduced by Biden, that stimulated a lot of

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Speaker 4: investment into renewables, a lot of incentives into that.

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Speaker 5: Part of the market.

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Speaker 4: So a question mark around whether that remains under Trump.

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Speaker 4: I would say it's difficult to unwind something like that.

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Speaker 4: So although it's a risk, I would say it's a hugely.

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Speaker 5: Likely to happen.

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Speaker 4: But I think in totality we're not overly concerned one

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Speaker 4: way or the other what way it falls and lands.

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Speaker 4: We're positioned and we've positioned our portfolio such that there's

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Speaker 4: no great risk either way, and in fact we see

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Speaker 4: it as a positive, a stimulatory type of response from

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Speaker 4: both parties.

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Speaker 1: Like now kind of honing in on one of the

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Speaker 1: funds that you offer, talking about, you know, managing the

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Speaker 1: risk or how you look at creating those things.

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Speaker 2: One of the interesting things.

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Speaker 1: About the PIG High Growth Fund is that you look

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Speaker 1: to a lot of small to medium listed companies. What

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Speaker 1: do you define as small to medium, Like we've heard

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Speaker 1: a lot of the big companies or the big industries, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: how do you define that?

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Speaker 4: Yes, So there's probably two ways to look at it. Firstly,

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Speaker 4: is just market cap, so the size of the business

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Speaker 4: itself and small we've just given our given our size

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Speaker 4: at the moment, we really do need to be mindful

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Speaker 4: of liquidity risk, so we kind of say from the

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Speaker 4: small end of two hundred million market cap all the

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Speaker 4: way up to say fifteen billion for a mid size business.

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Speaker 4: And you know, we deliberately try to keep our vestable

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Speaker 4: universe as broad as we can and as deep as possible.

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Speaker 4: We don't want to limit ourselves within that. So that's

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Speaker 4: the first kind of categorization. It's by market cap, it's

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Speaker 4: by size. The second way to look at it, which

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Speaker 4: is which is properly industry practice, is more is around

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Speaker 4: the indices that they're in. So we focus on the

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Speaker 4: small ordinaries for small caps, which is anything from if

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Speaker 4: I think about size of companies stopping UMBER one hundred

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Speaker 4: and one, so X one hundred all the way down

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Speaker 4: to the three hundred mark. And then for midcaps, we

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Speaker 4: look at everything outside of the X fifty, so the

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Speaker 4: top fifty names we tend to classify as large cap.

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Speaker 1: Is the way that you consider those different to how

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Speaker 1: you would consider some of the larger companies, like how

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Speaker 1: you evaluate them.

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Speaker 2: Good question.

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Speaker 5: I think.

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Speaker 4: Look, the approach to investing and what we call our

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Speaker 4: guess our investment process is very consistent regardless of the

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Speaker 4: size of the company. So the characteristics that we're looking

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Speaker 4: for in the businesses, which again we could probably to

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Speaker 4: a whole nother podcast on that because it's kind of

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Speaker 4: obviously live and breathe and love it, so but the

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Speaker 4: characteristics themselves and the kind of questions that we're trying

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Speaker 4: to solve for are consistent.

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Speaker 5: The one thing I would say, though, and the reason

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Speaker 5: why we have.

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Speaker 4: A preference for the smaller MidCap over the large cap,

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Speaker 4: is that potential for our performance is a lot greater

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Speaker 4: within the smaller MidCap space.

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Speaker 5: And there's a number of reasons for that.

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Speaker 4: The first ones that they're much there's much less research

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Speaker 4: available on them, and that allows for some more mispricing opportunities,

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Speaker 4: and it's also a much less efficient part of the market.

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Speaker 4: So again that potential for our performance is there. The

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Speaker 4: other thing I'd say around small caps is that the

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Speaker 4: growth is typically stronger. So when you think about the

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Speaker 4: companies that they're typically younger companies, they're at an earlier

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Speaker 4: stage of development, so that growth trajectory is stronger. And

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Speaker 4: then the final piece which has probably missed a little bits,

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Speaker 4: you know, merger and acquisition or i PO so initial

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Speaker 4: public offerings. Within our markets, they've been a constant tailwind

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Speaker 4: for smaller mid caps, and in fact, ninety five percent

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Speaker 4: of merger and acquisition targets in terms of the number

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Speaker 4: of deals have been in companies that have got a

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Speaker 4: market cap of less than US fifty bill and the

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Speaker 4: average premium that they get when they're bid for is

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Speaker 4: you know, thirty to forty percent, and that's created a

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Speaker 4: really strong tailwind within that part of the market. So

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Speaker 4: that's the differences i'd call out between sort of the

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Speaker 4: large versus smaller mid But what we're looking for in

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Speaker 4: a company would be consistently applied in the.

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Speaker 5: Large type as well.

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Speaker 1: Some would say that the A six provides more retail

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Speaker 1: or better retail opportunities than the insidets currently. What do

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Speaker 1: you think about this or what do you think the

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Speaker 1: main points of difference are.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it just comes back to the depth

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Speaker 4: of opportunities. Really, there's just much more or many more

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Speaker 4: stocks in Australia. There's a greater diversity of companies and

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Speaker 4: industries available for us to invest in. You know, New

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Speaker 4: Zealand traditionally has been quite a high yield market, dominated

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Speaker 4: by infrastructure and property names, and whilst there's actually a

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Speaker 4: very strong concentration in the Australian large cap part of

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Speaker 4: the market. So if you think banks, you know, the

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Speaker 4: big miners, a couple of supermarkets. If you strip that out,

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Speaker 4: and again maybe one of the reasons we tend to

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Speaker 4: focus on smaller MidCap it offers a real diversity of

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Speaker 4: businesses and in fact there's some real global leaders amongst

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Speaker 4: that pack as well. So I suppose if I had

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Speaker 4: to just really zoom out, it would be that that

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Speaker 4: there's just more stocks, greater depth of opportunities. Having said that, though,

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Speaker 4: I think for the first time, well the first time

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Speaker 4: since I joined PI eighteen months ago, we're seriously looking

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Speaker 4: at some New Zealand investments. You know that there are

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Speaker 4: companies over there with very solid fundamentals, and importantly, share

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Speaker 4: prices at the moment are probably factoring in continued kind

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Speaker 4: of challenges and derma and gloom that the NZ market

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Speaker 4: has really muddled through and.

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Speaker 5: That presents some really good buying opportunities.

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Speaker 4: Right, So we're absolutely not dismissing New Zealand, and I

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Speaker 4: think probably this is the time to start really kicking

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Speaker 4: the tires.

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Speaker 2: What kind of opportunities do you see?

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Speaker 4: There's a two that we're sort of really down. We're

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Speaker 4: doing quite detailed work on. One of them is actually

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Speaker 4: in the logistics company. And again, what we like about

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Speaker 4: this investment opportunity in particular is, yes, there's a large

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Speaker 4: proportion of their earnings tied and pinned to the New

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Speaker 4: Zealand economy, which we think is at an inflection point.

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Speaker 4: But they've also so that's the near term sort of

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Speaker 4: thesis and earnings driver. But then they've all I got

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Speaker 4: optionality and upside through a US through the US side

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Speaker 4: of the business. So again that's that's one. The other

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Speaker 4: one is more in the property side of things. So

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Speaker 4: again with interest rates being quite high in Zealand up

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Speaker 4: until recently, and also you know, the valuation of a

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Speaker 4: lot of these property companies have come down in a

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Speaker 4: training you know, at book value or well below book value,

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Speaker 4: and this particular company has got a really strong pipeline

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Speaker 4: of development sort of in the age care space. So

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Speaker 4: again that's just a couple of examples that we're looking

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Speaker 4: at that the valuation we think underpins quite a bit of.

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Speaker 5: Upside from here.

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Speaker 1: Well, one company, if it springs to mind, that you

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Speaker 1: wish you invested in ten years ago, and why you

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Speaker 1: know what, this.

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Speaker 4: One's easy for me because I also wish I invested

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Speaker 4: in a PA. You know what for me, it's Promedicuse

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Speaker 4: Promedicus is. It's a healthcare IT company specializing in.

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Speaker 5: Radiology imaging software. And I have been I have been a.

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Speaker 4: Shareholder from a professional capacity, and it's in the funds today.

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Speaker 5: But the stock was a dollar ten years ago.

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Speaker 4: I think it was a dollar. I'll have to check that.

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Speaker 4: I think it was a dollar close to a dollar.

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Speaker 4: It's one hundred and fifty today, so you know, but

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Speaker 4: that that type of return, I'm not sure there are many,

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Speaker 4: if any other companies. And importantly, this was not just

401
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Speaker 4: a one hit wonder. It wasn't just that they I

402
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Speaker 4: don't know, hit drill results in a gold mine and

403
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 4: character this has been a really consistent compounder. And you know,

404
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Speaker 4: it's a super high quality business. It's like and sorry

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Speaker 4: by high quality the revenues are recurring, so it's it's

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Speaker 4: you know, locked in revenues five percent locked in through

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Speaker 4: very long term contracts.

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Speaker 5: The profit margins are industry leading.

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Speaker 4: They've got a globally leading product, their customers and their

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Speaker 4: clients are top deer academic universities in the US, so

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Speaker 4: you know, think Mayo, you know, and importantly, a really

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Speaker 4: solid earnings trajectory. Even as we stand here today, they've

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Speaker 4: got a very clear pathway to be generating thirty percent

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Speaker 4: per annum for the next three probably ten years. And

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Speaker 4: the reason is their penetration is still very low. They're

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Speaker 4: you know, seven percent penetrated. And they've got new adjacencies

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Speaker 4: so I mentioned radiology, they're getting into cardiology, they're you know,

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Speaker 4: just being accredited the highest level of security for the

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Speaker 4: US Department of Defense.

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Speaker 5: So there's all these other growth avenues. So yeah, I

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Speaker 5: still am an investor, and I still think that there's.

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Speaker 4: A really long trajectory of growth. But I don't think

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Speaker 4: we're going to get the fifteen thousand percent return. I

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Speaker 4: think it was for a dollar to a dollar fifty

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Speaker 4: for the next ten years. But I think we can

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Speaker 4: get a really solid consistent return still yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And do you think, like the power of hindsight,

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Speaker 1: do you think there would have been signs signs ten

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Speaker 1: years ago that would have would have like what would

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Speaker 1: have been the signs ten years ago that it was

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Speaker 1: getting to end up on that path? Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean I probably started investing in this company six

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Speaker 4: years ago, seven six or seven years ago, I would say, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I just I think this is a really good example

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Speaker 4: of a company that when you see these really solid

436
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Speaker 4: fundamentals and you can see a global market and they're

437
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Speaker 4: winning off the major incumbent companies like Phillips and Semens,

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Speaker 4: it's it's clearly gaining traction and you've got to listen

439
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 4: and the repeatability of it. So if they're able to

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00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 4: do that consistently for three four years, you know, I

441
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Speaker 4: think sometimes valuation is evaluation has been the real blocking

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Speaker 4: reason people haven't been invested in it. But I think

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Speaker 4: you need to approach a company like this from a

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Speaker 4: different lens, from a valuation perspective. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks thanks for joining us, Michelle and sharing your

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Speaker 2: insights with us.

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Speaker 5: No, it's been pleasure, been absolute pleasure. So thanks for having.

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Speaker 1: Me awesome and thanks everyone for tuning in. You can

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Speaker 1: Watch this Shared Lunch episode on YouTube, or follow the

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Speaker 1: podcast on your favorite podcast app. Leave us a rating

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Speaker 1: and a comment about what you'd like to hear about next.

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Speaker 1: Thanks everyone, and goodbye.