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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine

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Speaker 1: from News Talks EDB, the Scoop from the trag Field

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Speaker 1: and the Court on your home of Sport Weekend Sport

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Speaker 1: with Jason Vine, News Talks NB.

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Speaker 2: So the T twenty Cricket World Cup will go into

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Speaker 2: its Super eight stages without New Zealand's involvement. Losses to

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Speaker 2: Afghanistan and the West Indies have put paid to the

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Speaker 2: black Caps chances. They accounted comfortably, of course, for Uganda

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Speaker 2: by nine wickets yesterday, and they'll complete their tournament against

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Speaker 2: Papua New Guinea in the early hours of Tuesday morning.

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Speaker 2: One of the great New Zealand all rounders is Chris Kens.

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Speaker 2: He played sixty two Test matches, two hundred and fifteen

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Speaker 2: One Day Internationals and two T twenty Internationals for the

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Speaker 2: black Caps in a career which spanned from nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: nine to two thousand and six. Perhaps his finest moment

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Speaker 2: was in the final of the two thousand ICC Knockout

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Speaker 2: Trophy against India in Nairobi.

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Speaker 3: Flow up. All that's kansis hundred. What a fine any

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Speaker 3: that is punches the air in delight. That is a

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Speaker 3: marvelous effort from the man who wasn't even sure it's

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Speaker 3: going to play this morning. One hundred from one hundred

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Speaker 3: and ten balls. Remember, if the scores a level, we

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Speaker 3: have a bowl out. Ken's has to go over the top.

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Speaker 3: The fielders are crowning him full task, They've got it.

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Speaker 3: New Zealand to there worked away for the single that

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Speaker 3: gives New Zealand victory two sixty five for six. What

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Speaker 3: a stunning effort that is. New Zealand win this ICC

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Speaker 3: knock out trophy by four wickets. Chris Kens, who wasn't

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Speaker 3: even sure that he could play this morning because of

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Speaker 3: that injured knee, has got an unbeaten one hundred and

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Speaker 3: two and a steered New Zealand to a wonderful wink.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to believe. That's nearly quarter of a

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Speaker 2: century ago. Now, the year two thousand. Chris Keynes joins

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Speaker 2: us from where he lives now in Australia. Chris, thanks

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Speaker 2: for taking the time to chat here on news talks.

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Speaker 2: He'd be how deeply should we examine new Land's exit

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Speaker 2: in the group stages of this T twenty Cricket World Cup.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look, it's a good question. I actually I knew

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Speaker 4: I was going to have a chat to you guys.

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Speaker 5: I sort of I thought about it last night and

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Speaker 5: I sort of tried to look at, you know, what

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Speaker 5: was going on. The negatives are positives and I then

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Speaker 5: sort of had a look at over the last ten years.

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Speaker 5: You know, this is an outlier, right, So, performance wise,

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Speaker 5: I think New Zealand at major tournaments over the last

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Speaker 5: several years have been tremendous.

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Speaker 4: They have been excellent.

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Speaker 5: So so given the preparation or lack of it, and

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Speaker 5: given what occurred how quickly it was, I don't think

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Speaker 5: you can dig too deep into this.

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Speaker 4: I really don't.

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Speaker 2: A lot's being made of the lack of walm up

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Speaker 2: matches ahead of the tournament. How much difference might it

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Speaker 2: have made if that had a couple of pre tournament

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Speaker 2: had outs.

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Speaker 5: Oh, a huge, huge amount of difference because you had

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Speaker 5: guys as well who were at the IPL but not

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Speaker 5: really playing. I mean there was you know a few

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Speaker 5: guys who were there for quite some time, you know,

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Speaker 5: sitting on the sidelines.

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Speaker 4: And you can't beat match played. I mean you can.

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Speaker 5: You can net as much as you like, you can

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Speaker 5: practice as much as you like, but if you're if

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Speaker 5: you're not sort of match fit. Then you know, that's

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Speaker 5: a that makes a huge amount of difference. And then

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Speaker 5: also those rain outs at the beginning of the tournament,

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Speaker 5: so you know, again I come back, I don't given

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Speaker 5: the nature of how quick this thing turns around. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I personally don't think you can look too much into this.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I just think it was a performance that

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Speaker 5: doesn't be lie sort of where New Zealand's been out

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Speaker 5: over the last several years.

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Speaker 2: So it's an outlie then for you, Chris, it's it's

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Speaker 2: it's nothing too much to worry about. So what should

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Speaker 2: we take any lessons from it?

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Speaker 3: Though?

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Speaker 2: How should we move forward here?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I suppose you've got to prepare.

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Speaker 5: I mean the lessons really are just if you get

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Speaker 5: in that situation in a tournament in the you know,

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Speaker 5: in the future, you know, what do you do? But

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Speaker 5: but you know, given given the nature of you know,

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Speaker 5: the things that were out of their control like weather,

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Speaker 5: and that's a that's a huge thing. And then you know,

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Speaker 5: guys they just look rusty, you know, even with the

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Speaker 5: bat in the field, especially in that first match as well,

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Speaker 5: which again is an outlier for a New Zealand team.

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Speaker 5: So so you know, yeah, yeah, you can analyze these

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Speaker 5: things to the degree, but I just I just really

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Speaker 5: don't think it's worth it in this scenario. The big

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Speaker 5: thing now, though, is that you've got the likes of

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Speaker 5: Saudi and Bolt and Williamson some key players coming towards

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Speaker 5: the end of their careers. So you know, you're looking

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Speaker 5: at contingencies now and sort of moving forward. I think

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Speaker 5: the talent I D aspect and what the team's going

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Speaker 5: to look like, I think that's more prevalent to sort

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Speaker 5: of analyzing the performance of this work cup.

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Speaker 2: Have you got a gut feel on what that might

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Speaker 2: look like beyond some of the players that you talked about.

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Speaker 4: I think not really. I think that though.

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Speaker 5: Look, I mean, Bolton Saudia are still going tremendously well,

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Speaker 5: and you know, and again Williamson just keeps turning it out.

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Speaker 5: So whether they've got a couple of years still left

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Speaker 5: in them, you know, only they know. And so you know,

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Speaker 5: I think that, you know, I'm sure Gary Stead now

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Speaker 5: will starting to plan for the future. And we saw

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Speaker 5: I think during the home series last summer. You know,

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Speaker 5: there's there's young talent coming through in the bowling department.

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Speaker 5: You know, we need to identify and bring forward a

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Speaker 5: replacement for Williamson. I mean, you know that's going to

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Speaker 5: be extremely difficult. I mean, he's a once in a

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Speaker 5: generation player, so so people are going to have to

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Speaker 5: start stepping up. But I do think that there needs

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Speaker 5: to be some planning now sort of you know, going

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Speaker 5: forward for the future.

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Speaker 2: Might the days of the three format player be coming

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Speaker 2: to an end? Might we see more specialization?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Maybe, you know, possibly, I do think you know, in time,

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Speaker 5: you know, as the riches and the I p O

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Speaker 5: increase and players place a premium you know, on those

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Speaker 5: contracts just purely because the value of them, you know,

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Speaker 5: you're going to see.

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Speaker 4: That naturally appear. Anyway.

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Speaker 5: I think it's like it's, you know, as the IPL

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Speaker 5: season grows and sort of gets bigger and a team

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Speaker 5: or two gets added, you know, that to me appears

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Speaker 5: in there. So you're going to have players that perhaps

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Speaker 5: you know, are focused on that T twenty element just

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Speaker 5: purely from a financial point of view, because it's just

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Speaker 5: makes sense. And you know that's gonna that's going to

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Speaker 5: pose all sorts of problems from an international point of

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Speaker 5: view and how and how those sort of games and

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Speaker 5: those the season continues and what that sort of looks like.

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Speaker 5: So over the next five to ten years, Yeah, cricket,

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Speaker 5: cricket's going to transition, I think quite significantly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what can you say, what what is your crystal

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Speaker 2: ball telling you?

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Speaker 5: I think cricket could end up like like soccer, like football,

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Speaker 5: and that you know, the season in India.

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Speaker 4: As I say, we'll just get bigger because of.

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Speaker 5: The financial windfall and benefits that occur off the back

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Speaker 5: of that product, which is an amazing products.

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Speaker 4: It's a great it's a great.

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Speaker 5: Brand, it's a great competition, and and I just think

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Speaker 5: that that will get bigger and stronger. And then if

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Speaker 5: you've got one or two more leagues around that, you know,

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Speaker 5: guys will be making significant income. So then I just

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Speaker 5: think that what will occur You'll have windows for World Cups,

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Speaker 5: windows for international matches, but but primarily cricket will become

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Speaker 5: sort of a domestic orientated or dominated game around the world,

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Speaker 5: much as much as like soccer soccer does. And if

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Speaker 5: you look at the biggest leagues in the world, they're

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Speaker 5: all domestic. You know, you look at the NBA, basketball, NFL,

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Speaker 5: Major League Baseball, and the E p L they're all

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Speaker 5: domestic leagues. And now the IPL is in that, you know,

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Speaker 5: it's in the you know, you're speaking of the IPL

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Speaker 5: on the same breath as those those other sort of

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Speaker 5: mega league. So that's that's that's where I see cricket heading.

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Speaker 5: Not not for a while, but but yeah, I do,

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Speaker 5: I do see hitting that direction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, just hearing you talk about that, it

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Speaker 2: makes me think about our domestic cricket competition, the New

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Speaker 2: Zealand domestic cricket competition. If the best players are all

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Speaker 2: off playing in India and other places, what might our

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Speaker 2: domestic competition look like in the future. You know, you're

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Speaker 2: the districts, districts these teams.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I think there's still be windows and

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Speaker 5: chances for people to play. But you know, ultimately it's

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Speaker 5: going to be a nursery to sort of bring young

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Speaker 5: talent through to then sort of get onto the international stage.

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Speaker 5: But the international state being big domestic leagues and so

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Speaker 5: you know, yeah, look, but as I say, it's a

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Speaker 5: while off yet, but you know, for me, it just

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Speaker 5: seems inevitable that that's going to occur. And that's why

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Speaker 5: I think it's really important that also from an Indian

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Speaker 5: perspective that you know, the riches that are sort of

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Speaker 5: gleaned from i PL sort of passed through and support

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Speaker 5: it in places like New Zealand where you know, whether

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Speaker 5: that be through academies, whether it's investment into the game

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Speaker 5: to bring the talent through because it's important that you know,

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Speaker 5: we have international talent or that they have international talent

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Speaker 5: to sort of boost their league and to have the

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Speaker 5: best players in the world playing in it.

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Speaker 2: Is it also inevitable Chris, that more and more players

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Speaker 2: will opt out of New Zealand cricket contracts in order

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Speaker 2: to play franchise cricket and then I guess, you know,

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Speaker 2: make themselves available if and when required.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I totally agree.

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Speaker 5: And and you know, very much like a just on

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Speaker 5: a match free basis, so you know you'll have again

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Speaker 5: sort of like again like soccer, like football. You know,

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Speaker 5: the English players will play or are you paid for

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Speaker 5: by their by their league teams, but you know if

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Speaker 5: they play internationally as a match freek and so so yeah,

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Speaker 5: it just it just flips with regards to you know,

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Speaker 5: what the priority is and what what dominates and so

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Speaker 5: that would just be the case, you know for world

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Speaker 5: Cups or for any other matches, the players would simply

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Speaker 5: have a match a match.

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Speaker 2: Parents All of these T twenty franchise teams have have

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Speaker 2: a specialist coach. Do you have a view on on

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Speaker 2: splitting the coaching responsibility between international formats.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, again, that's I suppose it's excuse me, it's hard,

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Speaker 5: you know. You I think to have you know, somebody

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Speaker 5: giving that much time up and what they're doing, you know,

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Speaker 5: and then sort of cutting their salary in half effectively

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Speaker 5: to sort of switch that over. I don't really think

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Speaker 5: there's a need for that in New Zealand and internationally.

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Speaker 5: I think, you know, we produce some pretty all round

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Speaker 5: human beings and I and I think from what Gary said,

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Speaker 5: I mean he can cut across all formats, and I think,

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Speaker 5: you know, New Zealanders would be more than capable of

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Speaker 5: being involved in multi formats and sort of maybe having

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Speaker 5: a couple of different changes and support stuff. But I

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Speaker 5: would support having the head coach across all formats.

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Speaker 2: Do you think the future of Test cricket is still bright?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, in the short term. Yeah, in the short term,

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Speaker 5: but again, if somebody is earning significant amounts of money

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Speaker 5: contract wise in the IPL you know, why would they

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Speaker 5: jeopardize that that security, that future to sort of injure

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Speaker 5: themselves bowling thirty overs or forty overs in a Test match.

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Speaker 5: And you know, again, I just pose these points in

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Speaker 5: these questions because for me, it just it just seems

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Speaker 5: you know, a large revolution of where this thing goes,

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Speaker 5: and that you know, somebody's not going to to injure themselves,

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Speaker 5: you know, playing Test cricket when there's a significant contract

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Speaker 5: on offer, playing T twenty cricket. So so you know,

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Speaker 5: and you and you can't blame the players for that

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Speaker 5: at all.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they need to look after.

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Speaker 5: Themselves and their families and their security and so you know,

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Speaker 5: that's the demands of Test cricket are the ultimate in

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Speaker 5: our sport. But again the contracts and what's on offer

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Speaker 5: will dictate where where players go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so are we only really a generation Chris away

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Speaker 2: from from a bunch of cricketers who never played Test cricket,

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Speaker 2: never played red ball cricket, will never pick up a

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Speaker 2: red ball at all.

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Speaker 4: That that is a scenario, you know.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I'm a huge Test match cricket fan because

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Speaker 5: you know, again, like I said, it's the ultimate in

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Speaker 5: our sport. But it's you know, the sport comes down

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Speaker 5: to what the fans want and what the public want.

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Speaker 5: And you know, if that's T twenty cricket, well then

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Speaker 5: that's where the investment goes. And and again that's just

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Speaker 5: that's just the fact of life. And but you know,

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Speaker 5: I don't think we need to worry in the short term.

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Speaker 5: I still still think it there. But I think you're

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Speaker 5: right and in a generation, you know, we we could

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Speaker 5: well see the demise of it.

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Speaker 2: So interesting, Well, I've got you to be remissing me

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Speaker 2: not to ask about your ongoing rehab. Saw some awesome

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Speaker 2: footage of your walking unaided in late April. How is

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Speaker 2: everything going.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's good, thank you, It's Look, it's it's it's

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Speaker 5: a challenge every day, you know, and it's a new

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Speaker 5: journey that I'm on. And you know, this is this

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Speaker 5: is by far the biggest and toughest battle that I've

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Speaker 5: ever faced in my life. And and so you know,

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Speaker 5: you just have to yeah, you just just small games.

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Speaker 5: It really is just just a day by day thing.

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Speaker 5: And you know, will I walk again, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: But what I'm trying to do is give myself the

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Speaker 5: opportunity to be in a position to be able to

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Speaker 5: do that and and with the techno technological advances and

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Speaker 5: everything that sort of goes with it. And that's stubborn attitude.

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Speaker 5: Then you know who knows And look, that's and that's

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Speaker 5: you know, that's what I'm trying to do.

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Speaker 2: Well, you've got a lot of Kiwi's chearing you on, Chris,

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Speaker 2: I can of that. Look, I appreciate your time talking

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Speaker 2: cricket with us today, thanks indeed for.

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Speaker 4: Them awesome, Thank you very much, Thank.

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Speaker 2: You very much, Chris. Chris Ken's there. You've heard from Chris. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: a slightly different way than I thought it might actually.

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Speaker 2: You know, I wondered whether there might need be the

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Speaker 2: need for forensic examination of this T twenty campaign. But

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Speaker 2: clearly yeah, well, Chris in his words, it's an outlier.

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Speaker 2: Your chance to react though to what you heard. Anything

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Speaker 2: you want to pick up on, I'd love to chat

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Speaker 2: to you about it. I eight hundred and eighty ten

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Speaker 2: eight are going to open the lines now on this

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Speaker 2: in particular, I'd like to know what are the planks

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Speaker 2: for the way forward for our international men site for

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Speaker 2: the black Caps. Now, let's approach this as I said before,

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Speaker 2: in a solutions based fashion. I think we've gone past

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Speaker 2: the stage of bagging the players or bagging the coach.

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Speaker 2: Let's look ahead and in this ever changing cricketing landscape,

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Speaker 2: ask ourselves how we preserve our competitiveness at international level?

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Speaker 2: How do we do that? Hundred and eighty ten eighty

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Speaker 2: is our number. I wonder if it's time for genuine

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Speaker 2: change in the way we pick our international cricket teams.

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Speaker 2: And while there will always be players who can play

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Speaker 2: all three formats, the proliferation of T twenty franchise competitions

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Speaker 2: has created a legion of T twenty specialists. So rather

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Speaker 2: than fight against that, why don't we just embrace it.

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Speaker 2: Let's pick a T twenty team that is dedicated to

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Speaker 2: playing T twenty cricket for New Zealand and have others

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Speaker 2: who play almost exclusively red ball or fifty overstuff for us.

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Speaker 2: Make it a clear delineation, and that includes I reckon

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Speaker 2: a specialist T twenty coach, someone like Stephen Fleming who's

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Speaker 2: utterly immersed in the nuances of the T twenty game

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Speaker 2: through his time coaching Chennai, who can show innovation, flexibility,

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Speaker 2: the ability to adapt because that's what T twenty cricket requires.

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Speaker 2: Have our T twenty team set off to one side

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Speaker 2: and act as a connected but separate entity. Now, of

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Speaker 2: course I know this would cause a few issues when

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Speaker 2: it comes to New Zealand Crickets Central contracting. But maybe

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Speaker 2: that's where you say, Okay, our contracts are for Test

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Speaker 2: and one day international players, and those players may or

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Speaker 2: may not end up playing some T twenty as well.

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Speaker 2: But for our T twenty side, we are quite happy

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Speaker 2: to pick uncontracted players who are specialists in traveling the

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Speaker 2: world playing franchise T twenty cricket. They don't get New

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Speaker 2: Zealand contracts, but they can play for New Zealand. In fact,

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Speaker 2: we want them to play for New Zealand. So you'd

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Speaker 2: pick the likes of Trent Bolt.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: I know he said that he won't play for New

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Speaker 2: Zealand probably again, and I get that, But someone like him,

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Speaker 2: someone like Jimmy Neisham, Colin Monroe, Martin Guppdel, Tim Seifert,

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Speaker 2: You pick them for T twenty and internationals, and then

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Speaker 2: you top the team up with players who you need

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Speaker 2: for the balance and probably ones who at least play

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Speaker 2: IPL and you would then have T twenty specialists playing

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Speaker 2: T twenty Creckitt in New Zealand, and I reckon that

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Speaker 2: would also improve the test in one day sites, give

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Speaker 2: them a bit of rest, because if you want to

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Speaker 2: play all three formats at the moment, you basically have

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Speaker 2: to play cricket twelve months of the year and that's

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Speaker 2: not good for balance or really for the development of

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Speaker 2: your red ball game. I honestly believe the days of

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Speaker 2: three format players are coming to an end, and rather

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Speaker 2: than fight against that, I reckon we just embrace it,

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Speaker 2: blaze our own trail, rather than following what is already

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Speaker 2: becoming a trend in other countries.

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Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live

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