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Speaker 1: On the Front Foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Cody,
Speaker 1: powered by News Talks head B at iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, here we are on the front foots again. Louis
Speaker 2: Didnay couldn't sustain their batting format. Brent Bridge who should
Speaker 2: be the black cats next bowling coach? And there's turmoil
Speaker 2: in the women's game up the failure of a white
Speaker 2: fern to win a game in England. Boy, wasn't that
Speaker 2: a fat time for our women cricketers. But it was
Speaker 2: a sad time for the West Indies who Jeremy Coney.
Speaker 2: They made a good turnaround, much better effort from them.
Speaker 2: They got a first in into league, but couldn't sustain it,
Speaker 2: could they?
Speaker 4: I was, yeah, right, yeah, I think I suppose what
Speaker 4: we've said last week in a way, wasn't it that
Speaker 4: It's not as if Test cricket is completely dead and
Speaker 4: you know, dead in the water. But it's you know,
Speaker 4: they were better overall, weren't they.
Speaker 3: Like any side? You know, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: And that's some of the problems, isn't it for developing
Speaker 4: teams like the West Indies. We all know their situation.
Speaker 4: They can't pick their best players, we know that. So
Speaker 4: they've got a younger side, lots of them have hardly
Speaker 4: played any Test matches and it makes a few games
Speaker 4: of cricket, doesn't it. And look, five days of competitive
Speaker 4: cricket can expose you.
Speaker 3: And yet they.
Speaker 4: Lasted what three and a half days and were very,
Speaker 4: very competitive, and they're up against the side that plays
Speaker 4: probably what would you say, twice as many Tests a
Speaker 4: year than they play anybody exactly, And so you do
Speaker 4: become vulnerable at a point against a team like England
Speaker 4: and you're chasing a total of say three to eighty
Speaker 4: the balls turning and they fell at a heap in
Speaker 4: a session.
Speaker 2: They couldn't play spin, and that's understandable. On a slow
Speaker 2: track they didn't have the expertise to play. But they've
Speaker 2: got some good players amongst that group. You know, Hodge
Speaker 2: has been around a while, but by gosh, that century
Speaker 2: got in the first innings was good to watch. I
Speaker 2: watch most of the partnership with the Athenase and it
Speaker 2: was good cricket. They were matching the England attack and
Speaker 2: making them look, you know, a less than powerful organization.
Speaker 2: But of course in their own conditions they're going to
Speaker 2: be a strong bowling attack, even though it's relatively new.
Speaker 2: Is it a strong bowling attack that could beat Australia,
Speaker 2: don't know, but it's good enough against the West Indies
Speaker 2: and the next batting that they're playing a Sri Lanka
Speaker 2: I think, isn't it. So you know, they've got the
Speaker 2: advantages of playing fairly weak sides to get themselves into
Speaker 2: some kind of rhythm for I too down here and
Speaker 2: then an Ashes series in Australia.
Speaker 4: They West Indies won the toss field at first. That's
Speaker 4: pretty understandable, isn't it, after after what had happened in
Speaker 4: the at Lord's. Yeah, And they didn't have and they
Speaker 4: didn't have Moti who was this main spinner who was
Speaker 4: out and they used three during the match. A guy
Speaker 4: called Sinclair, Kevin Sinclud's who bowls off breaks and bats
Speaker 4: about number eight and breathweight bowls a few off breaks
Speaker 4: and Kavin Hodge. You just mentioned the balls left orthodox
Speaker 4: and you.
Speaker 3: Know they they worked pretty hard.
Speaker 4: I thought even in the second innings wards, when when
Speaker 4: Brooke and Root had both scored hundreds, they didn't give up.
Speaker 4: They they at that stage. I don't know what the
Speaker 4: score was, but England must have been four for what
Speaker 4: three hundred and something three forty whatever they lost they
Speaker 4: they lost their last six wickets for about ninety runs.
Speaker 4: That the West Indies didn't give up. I mean there
Speaker 4: was some good, good Test cricket that that day when
Speaker 4: Wood was bowling. Wods wasn't there? Did you see some
Speaker 4: of that? How fast he was bowling?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was pretty lethal. And you know, I
Speaker 2: think the comment was made by one of the Westerning
Speaker 2: players that he was thinking of his family and could
Speaker 2: would also think of his family.
Speaker 4: That's right, my wife's I'm thinking of a wife here.
Speaker 4: This is not cricket any longer. Yes, it's interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 4: But you know Wood bowl, you know, like the wind.
Speaker 4: Actually I saw him expose Australia and the Ashes a
Speaker 4: year or so ago. He knocked over Kowaja and it
Speaker 4: was thrilling watching to see a guy bowling I would
Speaker 4: have said in the mid nineties. And he started in
Speaker 4: this match, this last match, and I think about ninety three,
Speaker 4: and then it went up to ninety five and then.
Speaker 3: It hit ninety seven.
Speaker 4: Well that's about one hundred and fifty seven or one
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty eight clicks, and you know, really he
Speaker 4: was flinging himself at the batsman. It was a bit
Speaker 4: like I hadn't seen that since i'd seen show back
Speaker 4: to Bowl. I'd seen Brett Lee bowl Alan Donald at times.
Speaker 4: But Wood is up there and maybe they won't yeah,
Speaker 4: maybe they won't let him. And then it was back
Speaker 4: to the WESTERNI is when I was facing them, and
Speaker 4: I knew what Kavim Hodge.
Speaker 3: Was going through.
Speaker 4: So it wasn't perhaps as clinical as the Western because
Speaker 4: they spent you know, years playing in county cricket, but
Speaker 4: the raw speed, nevertheless, it was it was really good
Speaker 4: to watch, So well done the Western is for surviving
Speaker 4: that part. They just didn't play long enough. Give them
Speaker 4: some more games. That's a problem, isn't it. There's no
Speaker 4: games in between the tests.
Speaker 2: They've got to get ready for edge person. That won't
Speaker 2: be an easy pitch. In fact, that's quite a difficult
Speaker 2: pitch to play on, and they've got the Test match there.
Speaker 2: I see that they're very bold now England, they're coming
Speaker 2: out oli Pope says they can score six hundred in
Speaker 2: a day. Well, the best they've done was about twenty
Speaker 2: two years ago against Bangladesh five hundred and nine for nine,
Speaker 2: and more recently they scored five hundred six in a
Speaker 2: day against Pakistan and Raul Pindy. So they're certainly starting
Speaker 2: to believe in themselves. I won't say it's an impossibility.
Speaker 2: It could happen, but you're going to have to be
Speaker 2: playing pretty well. It'score six hundred in a day against
Speaker 2: you know, the Ilford second eleven pretty much, wouldn't you.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, it could happen. You'd have to be dropping
Speaker 4: a few catches. You'd think it's six hundred that they're
Speaker 4: having to play quite a few shots, so you can
Speaker 4: make mistakes. Of course, when you're doing that and you've
Speaker 4: really got the catching becomes suddenly very very important as well.
Speaker 4: So we'll wait and see. Yeah, Edgeburston, it doesn't. It's
Speaker 4: generally a drier pitchure. It turns a wee bit and
Speaker 4: it starts in a couple of days, doesn't it. There's,
Speaker 4: as I say, no preparation in between games at all
Speaker 4: to give batsman a go and give them a chance
Speaker 4: again or bowlers to have a rest or just a
Speaker 4: chance to take a breath. Really, So yeah, I hope
Speaker 4: the West Indies are able to build on that second Test.
Speaker 4: They got a bit out of it, I think, and
Speaker 4: so let's let's hope that they can. But show Bashir
Speaker 4: also was the man for the second innings for England,
Speaker 4: wasn't he. I mean, he's that's going to be interesting
Speaker 4: at the baseminds.
Speaker 3: You know, we've watched that pitch last.
Speaker 4: Year and we saw Nathan Lyon how he destroyed New Zealand.
Speaker 3: This guy Basher.
Speaker 4: Turns it, you know, quite dramatically, and he's quite tall.
Speaker 3: He doesn't really give it.
Speaker 4: He bowls into the pitch, doesn't give you a chance
Speaker 4: to go down the pitch too much.
Speaker 3: So he's going to be a handful.
Speaker 2: Tough time for the West in these tough times for
Speaker 2: the New Zealand women's team. The England clean sweep over
Speaker 2: the New Zealand side, winning all eight matches in the
Speaker 2: white ball format, shows a glaring concern for women's international
Speaker 2: cricket generally. Yes, England a good Australia, good South Africa,
Speaker 2: India other side that I think are going to be
Speaker 2: the more dangerous side coming up. But the White Fans,
Speaker 2: who won't the bronze medal at the Cononwealth Games by
Speaker 2: beating England, have now lost those eight games to them.
Speaker 2: And when you look at the teams, nine of the
Speaker 2: eleven who played at Edgeburston were playing in the last
Speaker 2: match that the White Fans played and nine of the
Speaker 2: England players were in that side. But they've been winning.
Speaker 2: New Zealand have been struggling. And the interesting comment came
Speaker 2: from that series through the former New Zealand all rounder
Speaker 2: Frankie McKay, at least a decade away from catching up
Speaker 2: with England and Australia, she says, well, that's a fairly
Speaker 2: savage criticism of of where New Zealand is at, but
Speaker 2: it may well be right. Joining on the front foot
Speaker 2: is Kirsty Bond, former New Zealand player and also a
Speaker 2: former selector over a long period of time for the
Speaker 2: White Ferns. Kirsty, is it a fair assessment from Frankie?
Speaker 5: I would think that's probably fairly fair. I mean to
Speaker 5: be honest with you, it's a real worry and I
Speaker 5: think it is quite hard to see at the moment
Speaker 5: how we're going to bridge that gap. It's just gone
Speaker 5: on for such a long time now that is really
Speaker 5: difficult to see where we're going to go from here
Speaker 5: and with what the short term solutions are.
Speaker 2: Really the short term solutions are probably the most important
Speaker 2: at the moment, although the long term goals also have
Speaker 2: to be considered, because there was a lot of positive
Speaker 2: air about the professional contracts that players were getting and
Speaker 2: the fact that there were opportunities for the women players
Speaker 2: to progress. Is it all about money or I know
Speaker 2: that finance is going to be a significant part of it,
Speaker 2: But does there need to be other areas where investments
Speaker 2: should be made.
Speaker 5: Yes, well, it's not just all about the money. Obviously,
Speaker 5: we do need significant injection of capital, I think into
Speaker 5: the game to try and make some progress. You Know.
Speaker 5: The sad thing is when from from when I played
Speaker 5: the game through most of the nineties, late eighties, most
Speaker 5: of the nineties, you know, there were some really significant
Speaker 5: progress made with the white fans through that through that period,
Speaker 5: I feel, you know, we made two World Cup finals
Speaker 5: during that decade we really started to develop some depth
Speaker 5: in the White Fans and then of course in two
Speaker 5: thousand the White Fans won the World Cup, which is
Speaker 5: still the only New Zealand team to ever win a
Speaker 5: World Cup and the only team in the women's game
Speaker 5: outside of Australia or England to win a World Cup.
Speaker 5: So there was there was a momentous moment when the
Speaker 5: curred and unfortunately the you know, the ball wasn't picked
Speaker 5: up and run with from there, and the game, unfortunately
Speaker 5: here in New Zealand has been I believe, largely ignored
Speaker 5: since then, and we're seeing the fruits of that now,
Speaker 5: which is you know, really sad. And the numbers in
Speaker 5: the women's game just have not progressed, have not increased
Speaker 5: during the professional era, and so yeah, I really believe
Speaker 5: there needs to be significant you know, resourcing and money
Speaker 5: put into the grassroots of the game to try and
Speaker 5: build it up from build it from the bottom.
Speaker 2: Yes, I guess that's easier said than done because there's
Speaker 2: only a limited supply of money. But they've got to
Speaker 2: do more than pay lip service to the development of
Speaker 2: the game. The worry of courses that New Zealand has
Speaker 2: relied on Bait Divine previously Sat and to a lesser
Speaker 2: extent now Kerr, who's younger. But those other players are
Speaker 2: coming to the end of their international careers, one would imagine.
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't make them old to be mid thirties,
Speaker 2: but you know time is running out, isn't it for
Speaker 2: some of those players, And we need to develop younger
Speaker 2: players to take over the mantle.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we do, and that's been the unfortunate thing is
Speaker 5: we just have not had that development underneath the White
Speaker 5: Funds happening. And I know that New Zealand Cricket have
Speaker 5: and some of the mas have made some progress in
Speaker 5: that area in the last you know, two or three years,
Speaker 5: but that's going to take time to sort of embed itself,
Speaker 5: if you like, and for those players who come through
Speaker 5: those programs to make their way through to the higher levels.
Speaker 5: You know, we do have some young players and the
Speaker 5: White fans at the moment who potentially could be good players,
Speaker 5: but unfortunately they have not had that strong cricket underneath
Speaker 5: the White Fans that's required to play at international level now.
Speaker 5: And I don't think that it's unusual for the White
Speaker 5: Funds to be reliant on two or three of their batters,
Speaker 5: because that's always been the case, even back in you know,
Speaker 5: the nineties, we were we were reliant to a great
Speaker 5: extent on DeBie Hockley, and we did during that period
Speaker 5: over that time and start to build, like I say,
Speaker 5: start to build some depth through some other batters as well.
Speaker 5: You know, that was part of the reason why that
Speaker 5: that decade became. You know, the White fans were more
Speaker 5: successful through that period.
Speaker 2: If we go back a couple of years and the
Speaker 2: New Zealand Cricket decided to cut Amy Sattathwaite and others
Speaker 2: loose in terms of their contract lad to who at
Speaker 2: the time, although she's been back playing again, was that
Speaker 2: a bit premature? Did we not have a plan to
Speaker 2: have players that's Awdrey will to go to youth and
Speaker 2: there is some developing talent there, but it would have
Speaker 2: been nice to have some of those players still associated
Speaker 2: with the side. Do you agree with that?
Speaker 5: Well, I mean we're only really talking about Amy, I think,
Speaker 5: and possibly you know, Frankie herself. So you know, most
Speaker 5: of those senior players remained in Baits and Divine and Kerr.
Speaker 5: I suppose you'd have to class who now as a
Speaker 5: senior player. Even though she's only twenty three, she's played
Speaker 5: a lot of cricket and she's been in the White
Speaker 5: Ferns environment for getting on for seven or eight years now.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I guess the other thing that is a
Speaker 5: worry is that some of our players who have been
Speaker 5: there for a while for quite some time, like Maddie
Speaker 5: Green and Brock Calla Day and Hannah Row perhaps haven't
Speaker 5: performed as well as what we would like them to,
Speaker 5: and that they're kind of the players that sort of
Speaker 5: are the bridge between those older players and they're really
Speaker 5: genuine young ones that have come in. So it's really
Speaker 5: it is frustrating to watch the White fans at the moment.
Speaker 5: But I don't believe we can place too much on
Speaker 5: the heads of those young players that have come in
Speaker 5: the likes of Plumber and Gays and Carson and so forth,
Speaker 5: because that would be really unfair on them. You know.
Speaker 5: I do think that it's unfortunate that our senior players
Speaker 5: aren't stepping up more and performing more consistently so that
Speaker 5: they're you know, leading the leading from the front and
Speaker 5: showing those young players how to do it.
Speaker 2: Really, I receive email from a lot of cricket fans
Speaker 2: and a lot of passionate women cricket fans saying there
Speaker 2: needs to be a change also in leadership at the top,
Speaker 2: whether it be coaching or administration. Do you feel as
Speaker 2: though there's a need to do that or does what
Speaker 2: would what would you see as an area that needs
Speaker 2: the immediate change from the administration.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I think that there isn't there. There is
Speaker 5: quite a number of us former players and I expect
Speaker 5: to you know, a number of them regularly who are
Speaker 5: very frustrated with the current situation and have been for
Speaker 5: quite some time. And I think I think it's really
Speaker 5: unfortunate that since the amalgamation took place in the nineties
Speaker 5: between using on cricket and the women's administration, that many
Speaker 5: women who have you know, wanted to put something back
Speaker 5: into the game and assist where they can have have
Speaker 5: really not had that opportunity. I think there is a
Speaker 5: lot of frustration. I think there there are definitely there
Speaker 5: needs to be a change of some kind because what
Speaker 5: we've been doing is not working and so and I
Speaker 5: think we do need to look to our women more
Speaker 5: for you know, to provide that drive for the women's
Speaker 5: game because they're the ones to me that are really
Speaker 5: passionate about the game for women and girls. And I'm
Speaker 5: not saying that, you know, men aren't passionate too, but
Speaker 5: I do think that there's a lot of women out
Speaker 5: there who would be prepared to work for the game
Speaker 5: if they were given that opportunity.
Speaker 2: You work around the game in the Canterbury region, do
Speaker 2: you see that there is an interest from young girls
Speaker 2: and young women to play the game? There seems to
Speaker 2: be numbers. I look at the results of the age
Speaker 2: group tournaments and I see some outstanding performances in Wellington.
Speaker 2: I see some of the young women and their winning
Speaker 2: cups and performing well at the seventeen, eighteen to twenty
Speaker 2: age group. Are you seeing that our players being developed
Speaker 2: properly through the age group?
Speaker 5: Well, I'm certainly seeing it because yeah, I'm quite involved
Speaker 5: with that age group through the Willows Cree Club here
Speaker 5: in Kensbury, and we certainly are working hard to provide
Speaker 5: opportunities for that youth age group. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 5: think there's definitely talent out there and it just needs
Speaker 5: to be identified, and it needs good coaching and it
Speaker 5: needs hard cricket, and so there's definitely young women who
Speaker 5: are keen to play the game, And I mean, why
Speaker 5: wouldn't you. There's there's a definite career opportunity now, and
Speaker 5: you know, these young women can be paid very well
Speaker 5: if they make it to the elite level. So yeah,
Speaker 5: there's definitely there's definitely women out there, were young girls
Speaker 5: out there who are really keen to play the game,
Speaker 5: and they just are looking for those opportunities. It's just
Speaker 5: about providing the right structures and the right systems and
Speaker 5: the pathways for them to come through.
Speaker 2: And top level coaching. I sense that the White Fern's
Speaker 2: coach is only a part time coach when it comes
Speaker 2: to being in New Zealand. He has other business and
Speaker 2: that's fine. I guess he has to make a living
Speaker 2: as well. But do we need somebody to lead the
Speaker 2: coaching and development of young players in New Zealand? Is
Speaker 2: there somebody doing that?
Speaker 5: Well, there's a good question, and I don't actually know
Speaker 5: the answer to that, you know, I do know. I mean,
Speaker 5: obviously we've got an Australian coach at the moment, and
Speaker 5: so he doesn't live here full time. Whether that is
Speaker 5: something that needs to be locked at, I don't know,
Speaker 5: but certainly you know, there certainly needs to be an
Speaker 5: awful lot more done for the development of the game
Speaker 5: so that we can start to bring young women through
Speaker 5: through our ranks, through domestic cricket, through through underage level,
Speaker 5: through New Zealand a systems that where they're getting plenty
Speaker 5: of strong competitive cricket, so that when they reached that
Speaker 5: white fans level, they are ready for that sort of competition.
Speaker 2: Well, we know they were playing a tough side England
Speaker 2: and they are a very good side. But you know,
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago we beat them for a
Speaker 2: Commonwealth Games bronze medal and there are nine players from
Speaker 2: the New Zealand side in the team that got beaten recently,
Speaker 2: and there were nine from the English side. Yet they
Speaker 2: looked as though they were playing a positive brand of
Speaker 2: cricket and looked as though they were enjoying themselves. I
Speaker 2: read the body language of the New Zealanders. They are
Speaker 2: almost totally opposite in terms of the confident group that
Speaker 2: won that bronze medal. They need to have a change
Speaker 2: and they've got a competition coming up in Bangladesh in
Speaker 2: a couple of months, haven't they for the women's T twenty.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and when you look at actually the record of
Speaker 5: the team, it's that Commonwealth Games. The record in TA
Speaker 5: twenties and one days is not great. So but then
Speaker 5: you look at England, who we beat for that bronze medal.
Speaker 5: What they've done with since then, has they've really developed
Speaker 5: their England team? And I know that they're giving plenty
Speaker 5: of opportunities for the players below just below that as well,
Speaker 5: so that they're creating real depth and competition for places,
Speaker 5: and that's we need to be able to. We need
Speaker 5: to do that more as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting stuff from Kirsty Bond, and I think she's
Speaker 2: saying what a lot of New Zealand women cricketers are
Speaker 2: saying about the side at the moment. They're just not
Speaker 2: fronting up when they should be and the better players,
Speaker 2: the experienced players, are not being able to deliver. I
Speaker 2: think Kirsty's right when she says Jerry that you know
Speaker 2: it's been a common feature that the experienced players have
Speaker 2: held the batting together even in her time. You know
Speaker 2: where Debbie Hockley and other players were fronting up. Now
Speaker 2: it's it's a tough time and a quick repair job
Speaker 2: is something that's not going to be easy to defined
Speaker 2: and all the money in the world won't prove it either,
Speaker 2: will it.
Speaker 4: I found it a hard listen actually once, to be honest,
Speaker 4: I know Kirsty, I met her oh years ago and
Speaker 4: spent two to three days in christ Church.
Speaker 3: How they're making a coaching video.
Speaker 4: And she and Chris Harris very kindly put up with me.
Speaker 4: I felt it was it was, yeah, it was. I
Speaker 4: felt a bit heavy hearted there listening to her because
Speaker 4: she told a narrative to me. I've lost lost impetus
Speaker 4: and momentum from where New Zealand were and in the
Speaker 4: in the nineties and of course reaching the pinnacle in
Speaker 4: two thousand winning the World Cup. They they were quite
Speaker 4: a formidable force actually that New Zealand women's side in
Speaker 4: the early two thousands. They got to a semi final
Speaker 4: in two thousand and five in the World Cup. They
Speaker 4: got to the finals of the ODI World Cup and
Speaker 4: the T twenty World Cup in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3: But since then England.
Speaker 4: And Australia in particular, I guess India have joined that
Speaker 4: have raised money and the profile of the women's game
Speaker 4: and the importance of it and the disparities that Kirsty
Speaker 4: and you have just mentioned are so large now it
Speaker 4: kind of looks like amateurs playing professionals those eight matches recently,
Speaker 4: And that's our top side, isn't it. They are our
Speaker 4: top players. They represent all the female players in New Zealand.
Speaker 4: And to be fair, I mean, with the exception of
Speaker 4: say the third T twenty match they played, the general
Speaker 4: consensus was that was the best team we could have
Speaker 4: selected to go to England that was on offer. And
Speaker 4: you know, the numbers clearly aren't there. And she also
Speaker 4: mentioned that amalgamation didn't she how things when the women's
Speaker 4: game came and joined the men's administration. Initially it went
Speaker 4: were very well with coaching in the media, but the
Speaker 4: grassroots then has atro feed. And I looked up last
Speaker 4: night when you told me we were doing this that
Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen, over ninety percent of clubs had no
Speaker 4: female sides in New Zealand and sixty percent of clubs
Speaker 4: didn't even offer cricket.
Speaker 3: For girls at all. What about the short term?
Speaker 4: I'm thinking when you said that you asked her that question,
Speaker 4: I guess you're talking about October when they played the
Speaker 4: in Blangladesh, isn't it? And I would if it was me,
Speaker 4: I'd try and say a few things. I'd say, find
Speaker 4: a way to play spin, because you're going to get
Speaker 4: spin bowling over in Bangladesh and you're going to find
Speaker 4: conditions that are going to assist spin bowling, and they've
Speaker 4: a got to stay in b they've got to work
Speaker 4: out where they can score and when they move from
Speaker 4: defense to trying to score to attack, be aware of
Speaker 4: not opening up and favoring the leg side. Do you
Speaker 4: know what wadds The England team on green pictures that
Speaker 4: had been raining a lot there when they had been playing,
Speaker 4: took twenty one of the thirty week in New Zealand
Speaker 4: wickets to four. That's about sixty eight to seventy percent.
Speaker 4: They bowled over half the overs and they weren't really
Speaker 4: turning pictures. They were just right arm or left arm
Speaker 4: bowlers bringing the ball back in and so that's one
Speaker 4: thing they've got to do, learn to practic against them.
Speaker 3: Secondly, our tech was.
Speaker 4: Reliant on medium fast bowling and in dry spinning conditions,
Speaker 4: you've got a bowl at the stumps and clever changes
Speaker 4: of pace.
Speaker 3: That's number two.
Speaker 4: Number three, hold their catchers, hold their catchers. And the
Speaker 4: lastly people like Green and Halliday have got a join
Speaker 4: baits Divine Kerr and use their batting to get use
Speaker 4: most of the overs, so that I don't know, what
Speaker 4: do you think in the short term.
Speaker 2: Well, I think they've got to do something different, because
Speaker 2: as the old adages, you don't do the same thing
Speaker 2: and expect a different outcome. And that is one of
Speaker 2: the areas that I was concerned about whether the coaching
Speaker 2: is that is getting through to those players. They took
Speaker 2: Lauren down who to my mind is probably one of
Speaker 2: their best technically equipped players, and how she hasn't played
Speaker 2: a lot of cricket, but when they used her, they
Speaker 2: batted her down the order. And also they took another player,
Speaker 2: Mikayla greg who's been around for quite a period of
Speaker 2: time in the New Zealand Woman's game and she didn't
Speaker 2: even play a game. Now, somewhere along the line, you've
Speaker 2: got to make a change. The likes of Plumber is
Speaker 2: struggling at the top of the order. Divines should be
Speaker 2: opening in ten twenties to my mind, and plumb it
Speaker 2: down the order. Now you can understand that they are
Speaker 2: trying new things and that might well have been the
Speaker 2: case for this side but it hasn't worked. And they're
Speaker 2: going to go to a World Championship a series in
Speaker 2: Bangladesh and as you say they're going to need spinners, well,
Speaker 2: England had three of the very best on show, didn't
Speaker 2: they And they just monstered the New Zealand side. So
Speaker 2: somewhere along the line, they've got to find a way
Speaker 2: to play the game in those conditions. They've got to
Speaker 2: find a way to work the ball into a gap
Speaker 2: and take a single, to rotate the strike, to do anything,
Speaker 2: rather than be left with having to play million dollar
Speaker 2: shots that ended up getting them out towards the end.
Speaker 2: And I watched the games on the New Zealand Cricket website.
Speaker 2: They came in from SkyTV, so we had to put
Speaker 2: up with the likes of Nick Knight and and just
Speaker 2: cronies basically doing their best to give New Zealand a chance.
Speaker 2: But it was difficult to watch. But the things that
Speaker 2: you say are to me the most important things. The
Speaker 2: other thing is body language. England looked as though they
Speaker 2: were enjoying themselves. They were having fun. They told us
Speaker 2: they were there to be ruthless and they were. The
Speaker 2: New Zealand side looked as though they were looking to
Speaker 2: try and save the game all the time rather than
Speaker 2: go out and win it. And I think you have
Speaker 2: to achieve that first before you can believe in yourself
Speaker 2: and your ability to win games. I know it's harsh,
Speaker 2: but I think they've got a face up to that
Speaker 2: and I hope they're doing the inquiry that is doing
Speaker 2: that at New Zealand Cricket High Performance.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe they are.
Speaker 4: I've made a few inquiries and I think that is
Speaker 4: that's that's that's going to happen.
Speaker 3: I just want to see the team improve once.
Speaker 4: I'd like to see them getting better, you know over
Speaker 4: a five Well there's eight games here. You'd want to
Speaker 4: see them improve over those eight games. That might not
Speaker 4: mean that they necessarily win straight away.
Speaker 1: Brian Waddle Jeremy Cooney on the front foot.
Speaker 2: Jerry, I s hit your task last week?
Speaker 3: Did you do it?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: What was the task again?
Speaker 2: Don't tell me?
Speaker 3: What about the coach?
Speaker 2: About the bowling coach? Who's going to be the next
Speaker 2: bowling coach? Is that there's an offer up They've asked
Speaker 2: for somebody to apply. Have you applied? I've applied time
Speaker 2: during the cricket season.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've applied, I've written a very long letter and
Speaker 4: I'm sending it by a pigeon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't know quite how to approach this one, Wadds.
Speaker 4: I mean with you and I can trade names, which
Speaker 4: is kind of the way most podcasts kind of go,
Speaker 4: if you know what I mean, I'm The first thing
Speaker 4: is it'll be it's run by the High Performance. They
Speaker 4: are the people who'll be, you know, interviewing, so it'll
Speaker 4: be old Stronach will be there interviewing potential coaches who
Speaker 4: are interested, so you might get the message yourself tomorrow, Wodds.
Speaker 3: And and he will have run around the various thing.
Speaker 4: He'll have his little black book that he'll have names
Speaker 4: and I would hope, and he'll consult I would have
Speaker 4: thought he had consulted overseas players, you know, even if
Speaker 4: they're New Zealands. Wouldn't he can salt Fleming and Bond
Speaker 4: and Vittore and those sorts of people to get their ideas.
Speaker 4: Surely you use you'd use that resource that we've got.
Speaker 4: The second thing, so that's who's in charge at this stage.
Speaker 4: The second point is you can't avoid seeing the different
Speaker 4: coaches around when New Zealand play this last year. I've
Speaker 4: seen Jacob Orum, Kyle Mills was at the base in Reserve,
Speaker 4: if you remember Graham Oldridge. I've seen around as well.
Speaker 4: So I would ask you a couple of questions. Is
Speaker 4: there a pathway for coaching. We've got a pathway for players,
Speaker 4: we know that age groups, development teams, you know, and
Speaker 4: then working through to provincial sides, A teams going through
Speaker 4: and to again different selection elevens and from the A
Speaker 4: side you then move, if you're good enough, into the
Speaker 4: New Zealand side. Is there some sort of pathway for coaches?
Speaker 4: Can you tell me that.
Speaker 2: No, they have a plan I suppose about what they're
Speaker 2: going to do with coaches. I mean, Jurgensen was not
Speaker 2: going to be the bowling coach for the rest of time,
Speaker 2: so you know you must have somebody lined up who
Speaker 2: would we like next Onnce Shane moves on, which he
Speaker 2: has done to take over Wellington and he's spent a
Speaker 2: good time with a lot of the bowlers and now
Speaker 2: he's working with the likes of Seers and down well
Speaker 2: Nathan Smith as well, and down in Canterbury a guy
Speaker 2: called Brendan Donkers who's coached the New Zealand eighteen when
Speaker 2: they went on a trip to Australia. Is working with
Speaker 2: Zach Fuchs, with Will O'Rourke, and they must be in
Speaker 2: the frame. Donkers certainly must be in the frame seeing
Speaker 2: that Shane Jurgenson has moved on, so they must have
Speaker 2: a front runner, you would think, wouldn't you.
Speaker 4: You're right, well, I'm not sure whether we've asked the
Speaker 4: question about a pathway for coaches, because that's a more
Speaker 4: long term kind of thing.
Speaker 3: Is that we are in the end.
Speaker 4: I don't think we could ever if most boards get
Speaker 4: their money to dispense with around New Zealand from the
Speaker 4: television broadcast funds. Spark have pulled out, HEVI and z
Speaker 4: have moved in for the last couple of years.
Speaker 3: What's going to happen then?
Speaker 4: So I'm not convinced we are going to have that
Speaker 4: money to be able to spend on the people like, well,
Speaker 4: you're not going to get a fleming, are you. You're
Speaker 4: not going to get a bond, You're not going to.
Speaker 3: Get a vitry.
Speaker 4: Those kinds of coaches McCullum, they're out of out of
Speaker 4: the league, I'm afraid. And those coaches that come from Australia, England,
Speaker 4: India are are untouched of and I would have thought
Speaker 4: they're a coaches as well, wouldn't be interested in coming
Speaker 4: to New Zealand and we couldn't offer them the money anyway.
Speaker 4: So we are restricted if we are looking elsewhere in
Speaker 4: the world other than at home, we are restricted to
Speaker 4: going and looking at South Africa eighteen. Now that's what
Speaker 4: makes me think there's no pathway. Rob Walter was here
Speaker 4: in New Zealand at Central Districts. He took the eighteen
Speaker 4: to India and he's gone. He's now lead.
Speaker 3: Coach to South Africa, isn't he.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 4: Heinrich Mullan was up in Auckland. He's now head coach
Speaker 4: of Ireland. We are losing coaches. They're going the other way.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: That says to me there's no pathway. There was no
Speaker 4: one tapping Rob Walter or Heinrich Mallard on the shoulder
Speaker 4: saying hey, my name is Brian Strottich. We're really interested
Speaker 4: in looking at you for the for the New Zealand coach.
Speaker 3: That didn't happen.
Speaker 2: I don't think, well, they've taken the other per path.
Speaker 2: That's the that's the problem. You're talking about the pathway's
Speaker 2: gone in the wrong direction and we are needing some
Speaker 2: Well that's right now. So you know the bowling coach
Speaker 2: is the first option that they've had to make a
Speaker 2: decision on. And I guess in time we'll know I'll
Speaker 2: go for Brendan Donkers.
Speaker 4: Well what what what I mean? We're in a time
Speaker 4: of transition, right. You need experienced coaches, you need a
Speaker 4: lot of technical info.
Speaker 3: You've got to have.
Speaker 4: Good systems of data so you when you analyze things,
Speaker 4: you improve them and you avoid injuries.
Speaker 3: Are raw and seers.
Speaker 4: And we've got Duffy in the contract now in the
Speaker 4: contract system.
Speaker 3: Yes, who is going.
Speaker 4: We've also, if you think about it, we've got a
Speaker 4: number of spinners plying their trade with the Red but
Speaker 4: we've got Phillip's a beginner. We've got Satna learning to
Speaker 4: be different in how to get a turning ball through
Speaker 4: the defense, not just a through attack a batsman attacking.
Speaker 4: We've got ag As Patel who goes up and down.
Speaker 4: It gets the ball up and then down before the batsman,
Speaker 4: but he needs more consistency. We've got Bracewooll who is
Speaker 4: much the same as Patel up and down but potentially
Speaker 4: a big turner. I think we need a spin coach.
Speaker 4: We're off to India for three Tests.
Speaker 3: We are also.
Speaker 4: Playing Pakistan and Sri Lanka. You know, do we want
Speaker 4: up and downsmen?
Speaker 3: As?
Speaker 4: Do we want to show a Basha a tall bowler
Speaker 4: to bowl into the pitch. So I reckon we need
Speaker 4: a spin coach as well, a Jeeton Patel who's with England. Now,
Speaker 4: we can't afford this swads. New Zealand cannot afford those people.
Speaker 4: What do we do We come back to New Zealand
Speaker 4: is the answer.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: I like the look of Andre Adams and I think
Speaker 4: he thinks differently. I think he he's shown that he's
Speaker 4: been a coach of New Zealand in the past.
Speaker 3: He was at Auckland for some years.
Speaker 4: He's currently in Bangladesh. They all get paid US dollars
Speaker 4: of course, and they'll be all converting and back to
Speaker 4: New Zealand dollars and things like that. I would like
Speaker 4: to see him given an opportunity. I think he's a
Speaker 4: very good player, highly regarded coached in Australia as well
Speaker 4: as stateside. I'd like to see him have a crack.
Speaker 4: But I understand you Brent your donkers, not your bonkers,
Speaker 4: your donkers, because he's at the high performance as well,
Speaker 4: and he's worked with those players, so that I think
Speaker 4: we're going to have to be homegrown. Was I don't
Speaker 4: We've got haven't got a chance otherwise.
Speaker 2: Themes the way it's going, and it'll be interesting to
Speaker 2: see what happens when they finally make a decision, because
Speaker 2: as you say, they're not far away from sending a
Speaker 2: team to the subcontinent and to play against India where
Speaker 2: a good bowling coach will be required. We'll wait for
Speaker 2: the outcome of that. You have your money where it is, Jerry.
Speaker 2: I'll bow to your knowledge, experience and research capacity.
Speaker 3: And that's what you.
Speaker 2: Said, the ultimate compliment and thank you for doing the
Speaker 2: work that I gave you. You can have a little
Speaker 2: rest and watch the Test match from Edgemstone and we'll
Speaker 2: talk about that next week on the front four eight.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to that, see how the Westerndies go
Speaker 4: and see if they can continue that little bit of
Speaker 4: improvement back for another half day and the second innings.
Speaker 3: That'll be good.
Speaker 4: Those little improvements and steps that I was talking about
Speaker 4: for the.
Speaker 3: Women exactly trip the next week, mate, take care of
Speaker 3: me winter well, all the world the qualities of summer sing.
Speaker 4: Do do
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