1 00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:12,013 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sat B. 2 00:00:12,413 --> 00:00:15,213 Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on 3 00:00:15,373 --> 00:00:19,653 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. 4 00:00:21,413 --> 00:00:22,013 Speaker 2: Take another pad. 5 00:00:22,093 --> 00:00:24,173 Speaker 3: Now it's a trick. 6 00:00:24,733 --> 00:00:30,413 Speaker 2: It is out. The Test is over. Goodness smooth, wows 7 00:00:30,453 --> 00:00:33,053 Speaker 2: a beauty. It is out and hearing guys. 8 00:00:33,133 --> 00:00:35,573 Speaker 3: This delivery has in the uses to Bowl. 9 00:00:37,813 --> 00:00:41,173 Speaker 1: On the Front Foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Cody, 10 00:00:41,493 --> 00:00:45,413 Speaker 1: powered by News Talks head B at iHeartRadio. 11 00:00:47,293 --> 00:00:50,213 Speaker 2: Hello, here we are on the front foots again. Louis 12 00:00:50,253 --> 00:00:54,413 Speaker 2: Didnay couldn't sustain their batting format. Brent Bridge who should 13 00:00:54,453 --> 00:00:58,613 Speaker 2: be the black cats next bowling coach? And there's turmoil 14 00:00:58,813 --> 00:01:01,053 Speaker 2: in the women's game up the failure of a white 15 00:01:01,093 --> 00:01:05,613 Speaker 2: fern to win a game in England. Boy, wasn't that 16 00:01:05,773 --> 00:01:09,013 Speaker 2: a fat time for our women cricketers. But it was 17 00:01:09,053 --> 00:01:11,933 Speaker 2: a sad time for the West Indies who Jeremy Coney. 18 00:01:11,973 --> 00:01:15,493 Speaker 2: They made a good turnaround, much better effort from them. 19 00:01:15,893 --> 00:01:18,773 Speaker 2: They got a first in into league, but couldn't sustain it, 20 00:01:18,773 --> 00:01:19,133 Speaker 2: could they? 21 00:01:19,453 --> 00:01:24,773 Speaker 4: I was, yeah, right, yeah, I think I suppose what 22 00:01:24,813 --> 00:01:27,573 Speaker 4: we've said last week in a way, wasn't it that 23 00:01:28,453 --> 00:01:31,773 Speaker 4: It's not as if Test cricket is completely dead and 24 00:01:32,133 --> 00:01:35,533 Speaker 4: you know, dead in the water. But it's you know, 25 00:01:35,613 --> 00:01:38,453 Speaker 4: they were better overall, weren't they. 26 00:01:39,813 --> 00:01:44,133 Speaker 3: Like any side? You know, yeah, exactly. 27 00:01:44,893 --> 00:01:48,533 Speaker 4: And that's some of the problems, isn't it for developing 28 00:01:48,613 --> 00:01:52,253 Speaker 4: teams like the West Indies. We all know their situation. 29 00:01:52,973 --> 00:01:56,413 Speaker 4: They can't pick their best players, we know that. So 30 00:01:56,493 --> 00:01:59,893 Speaker 4: they've got a younger side, lots of them have hardly 31 00:01:59,933 --> 00:02:05,453 Speaker 4: played any Test matches and it makes a few games 32 00:02:05,493 --> 00:02:09,053 Speaker 4: of cricket, doesn't it. And look, five days of competitive 33 00:02:09,053 --> 00:02:10,493 Speaker 4: cricket can expose you. 34 00:02:10,613 --> 00:02:11,493 Speaker 3: And yet they. 35 00:02:11,373 --> 00:02:15,533 Speaker 4: Lasted what three and a half days and were very, 36 00:02:15,653 --> 00:02:19,373 Speaker 4: very competitive, and they're up against the side that plays 37 00:02:19,413 --> 00:02:22,693 Speaker 4: probably what would you say, twice as many Tests a 38 00:02:22,853 --> 00:02:27,373 Speaker 4: year than they play anybody exactly, And so you do 39 00:02:27,493 --> 00:02:31,093 Speaker 4: become vulnerable at a point against a team like England 40 00:02:31,493 --> 00:02:33,893 Speaker 4: and you're chasing a total of say three to eighty 41 00:02:34,373 --> 00:02:37,013 Speaker 4: the balls turning and they fell at a heap in 42 00:02:37,053 --> 00:02:37,573 Speaker 4: a session. 43 00:02:38,093 --> 00:02:41,253 Speaker 2: They couldn't play spin, and that's understandable. On a slow 44 00:02:41,333 --> 00:02:44,453 Speaker 2: track they didn't have the expertise to play. But they've 45 00:02:44,453 --> 00:02:48,853 Speaker 2: got some good players amongst that group. You know, Hodge 46 00:02:48,973 --> 00:02:52,453 Speaker 2: has been around a while, but by gosh, that century 47 00:02:52,533 --> 00:02:54,893 Speaker 2: got in the first innings was good to watch. I 48 00:02:54,973 --> 00:02:58,653 Speaker 2: watch most of the partnership with the Athenase and it 49 00:02:58,733 --> 00:03:02,053 Speaker 2: was good cricket. They were matching the England attack and 50 00:03:02,133 --> 00:03:07,333 Speaker 2: making them look, you know, a less than powerful organization. 51 00:03:07,413 --> 00:03:09,813 Speaker 2: But of course in their own conditions they're going to 52 00:03:09,893 --> 00:03:14,453 Speaker 2: be a strong bowling attack, even though it's relatively new. 53 00:03:15,133 --> 00:03:18,173 Speaker 2: Is it a strong bowling attack that could beat Australia, 54 00:03:18,453 --> 00:03:21,293 Speaker 2: don't know, but it's good enough against the West Indies 55 00:03:21,493 --> 00:03:24,853 Speaker 2: and the next batting that they're playing a Sri Lanka 56 00:03:24,893 --> 00:03:28,013 Speaker 2: I think, isn't it. So you know, they've got the 57 00:03:28,093 --> 00:03:32,213 Speaker 2: advantages of playing fairly weak sides to get themselves into 58 00:03:32,453 --> 00:03:36,053 Speaker 2: some kind of rhythm for I too down here and 59 00:03:36,093 --> 00:03:38,133 Speaker 2: then an Ashes series in Australia. 60 00:03:38,893 --> 00:03:42,573 Speaker 4: They West Indies won the toss field at first. That's 61 00:03:42,613 --> 00:03:46,573 Speaker 4: pretty understandable, isn't it, after after what had happened in 62 00:03:46,613 --> 00:03:51,173 Speaker 4: the at Lord's. Yeah, And they didn't have and they 63 00:03:51,213 --> 00:03:55,053 Speaker 4: didn't have Moti who was this main spinner who was 64 00:03:55,133 --> 00:03:58,213 Speaker 4: out and they used three during the match. A guy 65 00:03:58,253 --> 00:04:02,613 Speaker 4: called Sinclair, Kevin Sinclud's who bowls off breaks and bats 66 00:04:02,653 --> 00:04:05,293 Speaker 4: about number eight and breathweight bowls a few off breaks 67 00:04:05,293 --> 00:04:09,093 Speaker 4: and Kavin Hodge. You just mentioned the balls left orthodox 68 00:04:10,253 --> 00:04:10,893 Speaker 4: and you. 69 00:04:10,853 --> 00:04:13,613 Speaker 3: Know they they worked pretty hard. 70 00:04:13,773 --> 00:04:18,853 Speaker 4: I thought even in the second innings wards, when when 71 00:04:18,933 --> 00:04:23,813 Speaker 4: Brooke and Root had both scored hundreds, they didn't give up. 72 00:04:25,013 --> 00:04:28,253 Speaker 4: They they at that stage. I don't know what the 73 00:04:28,293 --> 00:04:30,853 Speaker 4: score was, but England must have been four for what 74 00:04:31,093 --> 00:04:36,613 Speaker 4: three hundred and something three forty whatever they lost they 75 00:04:36,973 --> 00:04:41,213 Speaker 4: they lost their last six wickets for about ninety runs. 76 00:04:41,853 --> 00:04:46,013 Speaker 4: That the West Indies didn't give up. I mean there 77 00:04:46,093 --> 00:04:49,013 Speaker 4: was some good, good Test cricket that that day when 78 00:04:49,053 --> 00:04:51,493 Speaker 4: Wood was bowling. Wods wasn't there? Did you see some 79 00:04:51,573 --> 00:04:53,093 Speaker 4: of that? How fast he was bowling? 80 00:04:53,493 --> 00:04:56,893 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was pretty lethal. And you know, I 81 00:04:56,933 --> 00:05:00,693 Speaker 2: think the comment was made by one of the Westerning 82 00:05:00,773 --> 00:05:03,093 Speaker 2: players that he was thinking of his family and could 83 00:05:03,453 --> 00:05:04,853 Speaker 2: would also think of his family. 84 00:05:07,933 --> 00:05:10,893 Speaker 4: That's right, my wife's I'm thinking of a wife here. 85 00:05:11,613 --> 00:05:16,333 Speaker 4: This is not cricket any longer. Yes, it's interesting, isn't it. 86 00:05:17,133 --> 00:05:21,293 Speaker 4: But you know Wood bowl, you know, like the wind. 87 00:05:21,653 --> 00:05:25,813 Speaker 4: Actually I saw him expose Australia and the Ashes a 88 00:05:25,933 --> 00:05:29,173 Speaker 4: year or so ago. He knocked over Kowaja and it 89 00:05:29,213 --> 00:05:32,653 Speaker 4: was thrilling watching to see a guy bowling I would 90 00:05:32,693 --> 00:05:37,053 Speaker 4: have said in the mid nineties. And he started in 91 00:05:37,093 --> 00:05:41,373 Speaker 4: this match, this last match, and I think about ninety three, 92 00:05:42,013 --> 00:05:44,613 Speaker 4: and then it went up to ninety five and then. 93 00:05:44,533 --> 00:05:45,693 Speaker 3: It hit ninety seven. 94 00:05:46,493 --> 00:05:50,253 Speaker 4: Well that's about one hundred and fifty seven or one 95 00:05:50,333 --> 00:05:54,693 Speaker 4: hundred and fifty eight clicks, and you know, really he 96 00:05:54,853 --> 00:05:58,693 Speaker 4: was flinging himself at the batsman. It was a bit 97 00:05:58,813 --> 00:06:01,493 Speaker 4: like I hadn't seen that since i'd seen show back 98 00:06:01,533 --> 00:06:06,573 Speaker 4: to Bowl. I'd seen Brett Lee bowl Alan Donald at times. 99 00:06:07,653 --> 00:06:13,013 Speaker 4: But Wood is up there and maybe they won't yeah, 100 00:06:13,053 --> 00:06:15,373 Speaker 4: maybe they won't let him. And then it was back 101 00:06:15,413 --> 00:06:18,053 Speaker 4: to the WESTERNI is when I was facing them, and 102 00:06:18,453 --> 00:06:20,613 Speaker 4: I knew what Kavim Hodge. 103 00:06:20,253 --> 00:06:21,093 Speaker 3: Was going through. 104 00:06:21,573 --> 00:06:25,453 Speaker 4: So it wasn't perhaps as clinical as the Western because 105 00:06:25,573 --> 00:06:29,613 Speaker 4: they spent you know, years playing in county cricket, but 106 00:06:29,693 --> 00:06:32,973 Speaker 4: the raw speed, nevertheless, it was it was really good 107 00:06:32,973 --> 00:06:37,053 Speaker 4: to watch, So well done the Western is for surviving 108 00:06:37,133 --> 00:06:40,733 Speaker 4: that part. They just didn't play long enough. Give them 109 00:06:40,773 --> 00:06:43,253 Speaker 4: some more games. That's a problem, isn't it. There's no 110 00:06:43,413 --> 00:06:45,133 Speaker 4: games in between the tests. 111 00:06:45,853 --> 00:06:48,533 Speaker 2: They've got to get ready for edge person. That won't 112 00:06:48,573 --> 00:06:50,493 Speaker 2: be an easy pitch. In fact, that's quite a difficult 113 00:06:50,533 --> 00:06:52,733 Speaker 2: pitch to play on, and they've got the Test match there. 114 00:06:53,053 --> 00:06:56,333 Speaker 2: I see that they're very bold now England, they're coming 115 00:06:56,333 --> 00:06:59,893 Speaker 2: out oli Pope says they can score six hundred in 116 00:06:59,933 --> 00:07:02,573 Speaker 2: a day. Well, the best they've done was about twenty 117 00:07:02,613 --> 00:07:05,973 Speaker 2: two years ago against Bangladesh five hundred and nine for nine, 118 00:07:06,453 --> 00:07:08,773 Speaker 2: and more recently they scored five hundred six in a 119 00:07:08,853 --> 00:07:13,773 Speaker 2: day against Pakistan and Raul Pindy. So they're certainly starting 120 00:07:13,773 --> 00:07:16,693 Speaker 2: to believe in themselves. I won't say it's an impossibility. 121 00:07:16,973 --> 00:07:19,613 Speaker 2: It could happen, but you're going to have to be 122 00:07:19,653 --> 00:07:22,973 Speaker 2: playing pretty well. It'score six hundred in a day against 123 00:07:23,573 --> 00:07:27,253 Speaker 2: you know, the Ilford second eleven pretty much, wouldn't you. 124 00:07:27,373 --> 00:07:34,573 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, it could happen. You'd have to be dropping 125 00:07:34,613 --> 00:07:36,893 Speaker 4: a few catches. You'd think it's six hundred that they're 126 00:07:36,893 --> 00:07:40,613 Speaker 4: having to play quite a few shots, so you can 127 00:07:40,653 --> 00:07:45,133 Speaker 4: make mistakes. Of course, when you're doing that and you've 128 00:07:45,213 --> 00:07:48,773 Speaker 4: really got the catching becomes suddenly very very important as well. 129 00:07:49,213 --> 00:07:56,053 Speaker 4: So we'll wait and see. Yeah, Edgeburston, it doesn't. It's 130 00:07:56,093 --> 00:07:59,213 Speaker 4: generally a drier pitchure. It turns a wee bit and 131 00:07:59,213 --> 00:08:01,933 Speaker 4: it starts in a couple of days, doesn't it. There's, 132 00:08:02,133 --> 00:08:06,293 Speaker 4: as I say, no preparation in between games at all 133 00:08:07,053 --> 00:08:09,653 Speaker 4: to give batsman a go and give them a chance 134 00:08:09,693 --> 00:08:12,813 Speaker 4: again or bowlers to have a rest or just a 135 00:08:12,933 --> 00:08:18,253 Speaker 4: chance to take a breath. Really, So yeah, I hope 136 00:08:18,253 --> 00:08:21,773 Speaker 4: the West Indies are able to build on that second Test. 137 00:08:22,733 --> 00:08:26,413 Speaker 4: They got a bit out of it, I think, and 138 00:08:26,493 --> 00:08:29,933 Speaker 4: so let's let's hope that they can. But show Bashir 139 00:08:30,133 --> 00:08:33,213 Speaker 4: also was the man for the second innings for England, 140 00:08:33,253 --> 00:08:35,533 Speaker 4: wasn't he. I mean, he's that's going to be interesting 141 00:08:35,573 --> 00:08:36,613 Speaker 4: at the baseminds. 142 00:08:37,253 --> 00:08:39,853 Speaker 3: You know, we've watched that pitch last. 143 00:08:39,653 --> 00:08:43,893 Speaker 4: Year and we saw Nathan Lyon how he destroyed New Zealand. 144 00:08:45,293 --> 00:08:46,853 Speaker 3: This guy Basher. 145 00:08:48,093 --> 00:08:52,333 Speaker 4: Turns it, you know, quite dramatically, and he's quite tall. 146 00:08:53,013 --> 00:08:54,533 Speaker 3: He doesn't really give it. 147 00:08:54,973 --> 00:08:57,453 Speaker 4: He bowls into the pitch, doesn't give you a chance 148 00:08:57,493 --> 00:08:59,053 Speaker 4: to go down the pitch too much. 149 00:08:59,733 --> 00:09:01,493 Speaker 3: So he's going to be a handful. 150 00:09:01,733 --> 00:09:05,573 Speaker 2: Tough time for the West in these tough times for 151 00:09:05,893 --> 00:09:10,973 Speaker 2: the New Zealand women's team. The England clean sweep over 152 00:09:11,013 --> 00:09:13,293 Speaker 2: the New Zealand side, winning all eight matches in the 153 00:09:13,333 --> 00:09:18,253 Speaker 2: white ball format, shows a glaring concern for women's international 154 00:09:18,293 --> 00:09:21,733 Speaker 2: cricket generally. Yes, England a good Australia, good South Africa, 155 00:09:21,933 --> 00:09:24,133 Speaker 2: India other side that I think are going to be 156 00:09:24,893 --> 00:09:27,533 Speaker 2: the more dangerous side coming up. But the White Fans, 157 00:09:28,013 --> 00:09:30,213 Speaker 2: who won't the bronze medal at the Cononwealth Games by 158 00:09:30,293 --> 00:09:34,333 Speaker 2: beating England, have now lost those eight games to them. 159 00:09:34,533 --> 00:09:37,813 Speaker 2: And when you look at the teams, nine of the 160 00:09:37,853 --> 00:09:41,733 Speaker 2: eleven who played at Edgeburston were playing in the last 161 00:09:41,773 --> 00:09:45,373 Speaker 2: match that the White Fans played and nine of the 162 00:09:45,573 --> 00:09:49,733 Speaker 2: England players were in that side. But they've been winning. 163 00:09:49,893 --> 00:09:54,573 Speaker 2: New Zealand have been struggling. And the interesting comment came 164 00:09:55,013 --> 00:09:58,293 Speaker 2: from that series through the former New Zealand all rounder 165 00:09:58,853 --> 00:10:02,013 Speaker 2: Frankie McKay, at least a decade away from catching up 166 00:10:02,013 --> 00:10:06,173 Speaker 2: with England and Australia, she says, well, that's a fairly 167 00:10:06,333 --> 00:10:09,613 Speaker 2: savage criticism of of where New Zealand is at, but 168 00:10:09,613 --> 00:10:12,213 Speaker 2: it may well be right. Joining on the front foot 169 00:10:12,373 --> 00:10:15,733 Speaker 2: is Kirsty Bond, former New Zealand player and also a 170 00:10:15,733 --> 00:10:18,333 Speaker 2: former selector over a long period of time for the 171 00:10:18,333 --> 00:10:21,933 Speaker 2: White Ferns. Kirsty, is it a fair assessment from Frankie? 172 00:10:22,533 --> 00:10:25,933 Speaker 5: I would think that's probably fairly fair. I mean to 173 00:10:26,053 --> 00:10:30,973 Speaker 5: be honest with you, it's a real worry and I 174 00:10:31,013 --> 00:10:33,533 Speaker 5: think it is quite hard to see at the moment 175 00:10:33,573 --> 00:10:37,333 Speaker 5: how we're going to bridge that gap. It's just gone 176 00:10:37,333 --> 00:10:42,093 Speaker 5: on for such a long time now that is really 177 00:10:42,133 --> 00:10:44,453 Speaker 5: difficult to see where we're going to go from here 178 00:10:44,533 --> 00:10:47,413 Speaker 5: and with what the short term solutions are. 179 00:10:47,533 --> 00:10:51,173 Speaker 2: Really the short term solutions are probably the most important 180 00:10:51,173 --> 00:10:53,893 Speaker 2: at the moment, although the long term goals also have 181 00:10:54,013 --> 00:10:56,853 Speaker 2: to be considered, because there was a lot of positive 182 00:10:56,893 --> 00:11:00,573 Speaker 2: air about the professional contracts that players were getting and 183 00:11:00,613 --> 00:11:05,013 Speaker 2: the fact that there were opportunities for the women players 184 00:11:05,093 --> 00:11:09,693 Speaker 2: to progress. Is it all about money or I know 185 00:11:09,773 --> 00:11:12,853 Speaker 2: that finance is going to be a significant part of it, 186 00:11:12,893 --> 00:11:17,333 Speaker 2: But does there need to be other areas where investments 187 00:11:17,573 --> 00:11:18,373 Speaker 2: should be made. 188 00:11:18,613 --> 00:11:22,613 Speaker 5: Yes, well, it's not just all about the money. Obviously, 189 00:11:23,213 --> 00:11:27,973 Speaker 5: we do need significant injection of capital, I think into 190 00:11:28,053 --> 00:11:31,533 Speaker 5: the game to try and make some progress. You Know. 191 00:11:31,933 --> 00:11:35,373 Speaker 5: The sad thing is when from from when I played 192 00:11:35,373 --> 00:11:39,413 Speaker 5: the game through most of the nineties, late eighties, most 193 00:11:39,453 --> 00:11:42,213 Speaker 5: of the nineties, you know, there were some really significant 194 00:11:42,213 --> 00:11:45,173 Speaker 5: progress made with the white fans through that through that period, 195 00:11:45,213 --> 00:11:47,493 Speaker 5: I feel, you know, we made two World Cup finals 196 00:11:47,573 --> 00:11:51,053 Speaker 5: during that decade we really started to develop some depth 197 00:11:51,053 --> 00:11:53,573 Speaker 5: in the White Fans and then of course in two 198 00:11:53,573 --> 00:11:56,093 Speaker 5: thousand the White Fans won the World Cup, which is 199 00:11:56,133 --> 00:11:57,813 Speaker 5: still the only New Zealand team to ever win a 200 00:11:57,853 --> 00:12:01,173 Speaker 5: World Cup and the only team in the women's game 201 00:12:01,253 --> 00:12:03,573 Speaker 5: outside of Australia or England to win a World Cup. 202 00:12:03,653 --> 00:12:07,933 Speaker 5: So there was there was a momentous moment when the 203 00:12:08,453 --> 00:12:15,173 Speaker 5: curred and unfortunately the you know, the ball wasn't picked 204 00:12:15,253 --> 00:12:19,293 Speaker 5: up and run with from there, and the game, unfortunately 205 00:12:20,093 --> 00:12:23,893 Speaker 5: here in New Zealand has been I believe, largely ignored 206 00:12:24,333 --> 00:12:27,253 Speaker 5: since then, and we're seeing the fruits of that now, 207 00:12:27,573 --> 00:12:31,573 Speaker 5: which is you know, really sad. And the numbers in 208 00:12:31,613 --> 00:12:36,973 Speaker 5: the women's game just have not progressed, have not increased 209 00:12:37,493 --> 00:12:42,333 Speaker 5: during the professional era, and so yeah, I really believe 210 00:12:42,373 --> 00:12:46,613 Speaker 5: there needs to be significant you know, resourcing and money 211 00:12:46,653 --> 00:12:49,333 Speaker 5: put into the grassroots of the game to try and 212 00:12:49,373 --> 00:12:51,653 Speaker 5: build it up from build it from the bottom. 213 00:12:51,973 --> 00:12:54,613 Speaker 2: Yes, I guess that's easier said than done because there's 214 00:12:54,613 --> 00:12:57,733 Speaker 2: only a limited supply of money. But they've got to 215 00:12:57,733 --> 00:13:00,893 Speaker 2: do more than pay lip service to the development of 216 00:13:01,253 --> 00:13:04,253 Speaker 2: the game. The worry of courses that New Zealand has 217 00:13:04,293 --> 00:13:09,573 Speaker 2: relied on Bait Divine previously Sat and to a lesser 218 00:13:09,653 --> 00:13:14,093 Speaker 2: extent now Kerr, who's younger. But those other players are 219 00:13:14,253 --> 00:13:18,613 Speaker 2: coming to the end of their international careers, one would imagine. 220 00:13:18,693 --> 00:13:21,213 Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't make them old to be mid thirties, 221 00:13:21,733 --> 00:13:24,813 Speaker 2: but you know time is running out, isn't it for 222 00:13:25,133 --> 00:13:27,413 Speaker 2: some of those players, And we need to develop younger 223 00:13:27,453 --> 00:13:29,373 Speaker 2: players to take over the mantle. 224 00:13:29,893 --> 00:13:33,253 Speaker 5: Yeah, we do, and that's been the unfortunate thing is 225 00:13:33,293 --> 00:13:36,053 Speaker 5: we just have not had that development underneath the White 226 00:13:36,093 --> 00:13:40,533 Speaker 5: Funds happening. And I know that New Zealand Cricket have 227 00:13:41,773 --> 00:13:44,853 Speaker 5: and some of the mas have made some progress in 228 00:13:44,893 --> 00:13:47,653 Speaker 5: that area in the last you know, two or three years, 229 00:13:47,693 --> 00:13:52,653 Speaker 5: but that's going to take time to sort of embed itself, 230 00:13:52,653 --> 00:13:56,093 Speaker 5: if you like, and for those players who come through 231 00:13:56,173 --> 00:14:00,653 Speaker 5: those programs to make their way through to the higher levels. 232 00:14:00,973 --> 00:14:03,653 Speaker 5: You know, we do have some young players and the 233 00:14:03,693 --> 00:14:08,613 Speaker 5: White fans at the moment who potentially could be good players, 234 00:14:09,373 --> 00:14:15,053 Speaker 5: but unfortunately they have not had that strong cricket underneath 235 00:14:15,093 --> 00:14:19,533 Speaker 5: the White Fans that's required to play at international level now. 236 00:14:19,733 --> 00:14:22,853 Speaker 5: And I don't think that it's unusual for the White 237 00:14:22,853 --> 00:14:27,613 Speaker 5: Funds to be reliant on two or three of their batters, 238 00:14:27,693 --> 00:14:30,933 Speaker 5: because that's always been the case, even back in you know, 239 00:14:31,133 --> 00:14:34,053 Speaker 5: the nineties, we were we were reliant to a great 240 00:14:34,093 --> 00:14:38,813 Speaker 5: extent on DeBie Hockley, and we did during that period 241 00:14:38,853 --> 00:14:41,533 Speaker 5: over that time and start to build, like I say, 242 00:14:41,573 --> 00:14:44,093 Speaker 5: start to build some depth through some other batters as well. 243 00:14:44,773 --> 00:14:48,293 Speaker 5: You know, that was part of the reason why that 244 00:14:48,293 --> 00:14:52,573 Speaker 5: that decade became. You know, the White fans were more 245 00:14:52,613 --> 00:14:53,933 Speaker 5: successful through that period. 246 00:14:54,973 --> 00:14:56,773 Speaker 2: If we go back a couple of years and the 247 00:14:56,813 --> 00:14:59,853 Speaker 2: New Zealand Cricket decided to cut Amy Sattathwaite and others 248 00:14:59,893 --> 00:15:02,453 Speaker 2: loose in terms of their contract lad to who at 249 00:15:02,493 --> 00:15:05,333 Speaker 2: the time, although she's been back playing again, was that 250 00:15:05,413 --> 00:15:07,813 Speaker 2: a bit premature? Did we not have a plan to 251 00:15:08,413 --> 00:15:10,693 Speaker 2: have players that's Awdrey will to go to youth and 252 00:15:10,733 --> 00:15:13,693 Speaker 2: there is some developing talent there, but it would have 253 00:15:13,693 --> 00:15:16,333 Speaker 2: been nice to have some of those players still associated 254 00:15:16,333 --> 00:15:17,733 Speaker 2: with the side. Do you agree with that? 255 00:15:19,693 --> 00:15:23,533 Speaker 5: Well, I mean we're only really talking about Amy, I think, 256 00:15:23,613 --> 00:15:30,293 Speaker 5: and possibly you know, Frankie herself. So you know, most 257 00:15:30,293 --> 00:15:36,333 Speaker 5: of those senior players remained in Baits and Divine and Kerr. 258 00:15:36,333 --> 00:15:38,693 Speaker 5: I suppose you'd have to class who now as a 259 00:15:38,733 --> 00:15:42,093 Speaker 5: senior player. Even though she's only twenty three, she's played 260 00:15:42,093 --> 00:15:44,493 Speaker 5: a lot of cricket and she's been in the White 261 00:15:44,533 --> 00:15:48,453 Speaker 5: Ferns environment for getting on for seven or eight years now. 262 00:15:48,533 --> 00:15:53,213 Speaker 5: So yeah, I guess the other thing that is a 263 00:15:53,253 --> 00:15:56,933 Speaker 5: worry is that some of our players who have been 264 00:15:56,973 --> 00:16:03,093 Speaker 5: there for a while for quite some time, like Maddie 265 00:16:03,133 --> 00:16:07,733 Speaker 5: Green and Brock Calla Day and Hannah Row perhaps haven't 266 00:16:07,733 --> 00:16:11,733 Speaker 5: performed as well as what we would like them to, 267 00:16:12,533 --> 00:16:15,413 Speaker 5: and that they're kind of the players that sort of 268 00:16:15,493 --> 00:16:19,613 Speaker 5: are the bridge between those older players and they're really 269 00:16:19,733 --> 00:16:23,493 Speaker 5: genuine young ones that have come in. So it's really 270 00:16:23,653 --> 00:16:26,813 Speaker 5: it is frustrating to watch the White fans at the moment. 271 00:16:27,053 --> 00:16:30,493 Speaker 5: But I don't believe we can place too much on 272 00:16:30,573 --> 00:16:32,573 Speaker 5: the heads of those young players that have come in 273 00:16:33,053 --> 00:16:36,533 Speaker 5: the likes of Plumber and Gays and Carson and so forth, 274 00:16:36,733 --> 00:16:39,013 Speaker 5: because that would be really unfair on them. You know. 275 00:16:39,533 --> 00:16:43,013 Speaker 5: I do think that it's unfortunate that our senior players 276 00:16:43,133 --> 00:16:49,493 Speaker 5: aren't stepping up more and performing more consistently so that 277 00:16:49,573 --> 00:16:51,973 Speaker 5: they're you know, leading the leading from the front and 278 00:16:51,973 --> 00:16:54,533 Speaker 5: showing those young players how to do it. 279 00:16:54,573 --> 00:16:58,773 Speaker 2: Really, I receive email from a lot of cricket fans 280 00:16:59,013 --> 00:17:02,693 Speaker 2: and a lot of passionate women cricket fans saying there 281 00:17:02,733 --> 00:17:06,333 Speaker 2: needs to be a change also in leadership at the top, 282 00:17:06,373 --> 00:17:10,013 Speaker 2: whether it be coaching or administration. Do you feel as 283 00:17:10,053 --> 00:17:12,413 Speaker 2: though there's a need to do that or does what 284 00:17:12,453 --> 00:17:16,053 Speaker 2: would what would you see as an area that needs 285 00:17:16,333 --> 00:17:20,333 Speaker 2: the immediate change from the administration. 286 00:17:21,093 --> 00:17:23,533 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I think that there isn't there. There is 287 00:17:23,613 --> 00:17:26,973 Speaker 5: quite a number of us former players and I expect 288 00:17:27,013 --> 00:17:30,933 Speaker 5: to you know, a number of them regularly who are 289 00:17:31,093 --> 00:17:34,893 Speaker 5: very frustrated with the current situation and have been for 290 00:17:34,973 --> 00:17:38,333 Speaker 5: quite some time. And I think I think it's really 291 00:17:38,453 --> 00:17:41,973 Speaker 5: unfortunate that since the amalgamation took place in the nineties 292 00:17:42,053 --> 00:17:48,013 Speaker 5: between using on cricket and the women's administration, that many 293 00:17:48,093 --> 00:17:52,133 Speaker 5: women who have you know, wanted to put something back 294 00:17:52,173 --> 00:17:56,053 Speaker 5: into the game and assist where they can have have 295 00:17:56,173 --> 00:17:58,813 Speaker 5: really not had that opportunity. I think there is a 296 00:17:58,813 --> 00:18:03,333 Speaker 5: lot of frustration. I think there there are definitely there 297 00:18:03,373 --> 00:18:06,533 Speaker 5: needs to be a change of some kind because what 298 00:18:06,573 --> 00:18:10,253 Speaker 5: we've been doing is not working and so and I 299 00:18:10,453 --> 00:18:13,093 Speaker 5: think we do need to look to our women more 300 00:18:14,093 --> 00:18:18,493 Speaker 5: for you know, to provide that drive for the women's 301 00:18:18,533 --> 00:18:21,773 Speaker 5: game because they're the ones to me that are really 302 00:18:21,813 --> 00:18:26,333 Speaker 5: passionate about the game for women and girls. And I'm 303 00:18:26,373 --> 00:18:30,933 Speaker 5: not saying that, you know, men aren't passionate too, but 304 00:18:30,973 --> 00:18:32,493 Speaker 5: I do think that there's a lot of women out 305 00:18:32,493 --> 00:18:36,373 Speaker 5: there who would be prepared to work for the game 306 00:18:36,773 --> 00:18:38,333 Speaker 5: if they were given that opportunity. 307 00:18:39,613 --> 00:18:43,213 Speaker 2: You work around the game in the Canterbury region, do 308 00:18:43,253 --> 00:18:47,293 Speaker 2: you see that there is an interest from young girls 309 00:18:47,333 --> 00:18:50,693 Speaker 2: and young women to play the game? There seems to 310 00:18:50,693 --> 00:18:53,253 Speaker 2: be numbers. I look at the results of the age 311 00:18:53,253 --> 00:18:57,213 Speaker 2: group tournaments and I see some outstanding performances in Wellington. 312 00:18:57,293 --> 00:19:00,373 Speaker 2: I see some of the young women and their winning 313 00:19:00,453 --> 00:19:04,693 Speaker 2: cups and performing well at the seventeen, eighteen to twenty 314 00:19:05,013 --> 00:19:09,293 Speaker 2: age group. Are you seeing that our players being developed 315 00:19:09,893 --> 00:19:11,973 Speaker 2: properly through the age group? 316 00:19:12,933 --> 00:19:16,613 Speaker 5: Well, I'm certainly seeing it because yeah, I'm quite involved 317 00:19:16,653 --> 00:19:21,053 Speaker 5: with that age group through the Willows Cree Club here 318 00:19:21,213 --> 00:19:24,853 Speaker 5: in Kensbury, and we certainly are working hard to provide 319 00:19:24,893 --> 00:19:31,533 Speaker 5: opportunities for that youth age group. Yeah, I mean, I 320 00:19:31,933 --> 00:19:36,093 Speaker 5: think there's definitely talent out there and it just needs 321 00:19:36,253 --> 00:19:41,733 Speaker 5: to be identified, and it needs good coaching and it 322 00:19:41,813 --> 00:19:47,253 Speaker 5: needs hard cricket, and so there's definitely young women who 323 00:19:47,853 --> 00:19:51,733 Speaker 5: are keen to play the game, And I mean, why 324 00:19:51,733 --> 00:19:55,853 Speaker 5: wouldn't you. There's there's a definite career opportunity now, and 325 00:19:56,333 --> 00:19:59,293 Speaker 5: you know, these young women can be paid very well 326 00:19:59,293 --> 00:20:02,133 Speaker 5: if they make it to the elite level. So yeah, 327 00:20:02,173 --> 00:20:06,093 Speaker 5: there's definitely there's definitely women out there, were young girls 328 00:20:06,093 --> 00:20:07,933 Speaker 5: out there who are really keen to play the game, 329 00:20:08,013 --> 00:20:11,533 Speaker 5: and they just are looking for those opportunities. It's just 330 00:20:11,573 --> 00:20:14,613 Speaker 5: about providing the right structures and the right systems and 331 00:20:14,653 --> 00:20:16,493 Speaker 5: the pathways for them to come through. 332 00:20:16,733 --> 00:20:20,853 Speaker 2: And top level coaching. I sense that the White Fern's 333 00:20:20,933 --> 00:20:23,533 Speaker 2: coach is only a part time coach when it comes 334 00:20:23,533 --> 00:20:26,253 Speaker 2: to being in New Zealand. He has other business and 335 00:20:26,253 --> 00:20:28,253 Speaker 2: that's fine. I guess he has to make a living 336 00:20:28,293 --> 00:20:31,293 Speaker 2: as well. But do we need somebody to lead the 337 00:20:31,333 --> 00:20:34,413 Speaker 2: coaching and development of young players in New Zealand? Is 338 00:20:34,453 --> 00:20:35,333 Speaker 2: there somebody doing that? 339 00:20:36,373 --> 00:20:38,773 Speaker 5: Well, there's a good question, and I don't actually know 340 00:20:38,853 --> 00:20:42,093 Speaker 5: the answer to that, you know, I do know. I mean, 341 00:20:42,093 --> 00:20:45,093 Speaker 5: obviously we've got an Australian coach at the moment, and 342 00:20:45,133 --> 00:20:48,453 Speaker 5: so he doesn't live here full time. Whether that is 343 00:20:49,053 --> 00:20:50,853 Speaker 5: something that needs to be locked at, I don't know, 344 00:20:50,973 --> 00:20:55,413 Speaker 5: but certainly you know, there certainly needs to be an 345 00:20:55,453 --> 00:20:59,333 Speaker 5: awful lot more done for the development of the game 346 00:21:00,053 --> 00:21:04,933 Speaker 5: so that we can start to bring young women through 347 00:21:04,693 --> 00:21:09,493 Speaker 5: through our ranks, through domestic cricket, through through underage level, 348 00:21:09,573 --> 00:21:14,493 Speaker 5: through New Zealand a systems that where they're getting plenty 349 00:21:14,493 --> 00:21:19,213 Speaker 5: of strong competitive cricket, so that when they reached that 350 00:21:19,293 --> 00:21:23,453 Speaker 5: white fans level, they are ready for that sort of competition. 351 00:21:24,013 --> 00:21:26,173 Speaker 2: Well, we know they were playing a tough side England 352 00:21:26,213 --> 00:21:28,053 Speaker 2: and they are a very good side. But you know, 353 00:21:28,093 --> 00:21:30,413 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago we beat them for a 354 00:21:30,453 --> 00:21:33,853 Speaker 2: Commonwealth Games bronze medal and there are nine players from 355 00:21:33,933 --> 00:21:37,373 Speaker 2: the New Zealand side in the team that got beaten recently, 356 00:21:37,413 --> 00:21:39,653 Speaker 2: and there were nine from the English side. Yet they 357 00:21:39,693 --> 00:21:43,773 Speaker 2: looked as though they were playing a positive brand of 358 00:21:43,813 --> 00:21:47,173 Speaker 2: cricket and looked as though they were enjoying themselves. I 359 00:21:47,253 --> 00:21:49,813 Speaker 2: read the body language of the New Zealanders. They are 360 00:21:49,853 --> 00:21:54,693 Speaker 2: almost totally opposite in terms of the confident group that 361 00:21:54,853 --> 00:21:57,453 Speaker 2: won that bronze medal. They need to have a change 362 00:21:57,493 --> 00:21:59,933 Speaker 2: and they've got a competition coming up in Bangladesh in 363 00:21:59,973 --> 00:22:02,733 Speaker 2: a couple of months, haven't they for the women's T twenty. 364 00:22:03,133 --> 00:22:07,573 Speaker 5: Yeah, and when you look at actually the record of 365 00:22:07,653 --> 00:22:11,053 Speaker 5: the team, it's that Commonwealth Games. The record in TA 366 00:22:11,093 --> 00:22:13,813 Speaker 5: twenties and one days is not great. So but then 367 00:22:13,853 --> 00:22:16,373 Speaker 5: you look at England, who we beat for that bronze medal. 368 00:22:17,053 --> 00:22:21,293 Speaker 5: What they've done with since then, has they've really developed 369 00:22:21,493 --> 00:22:23,813 Speaker 5: their England team? And I know that they're giving plenty 370 00:22:23,813 --> 00:22:27,413 Speaker 5: of opportunities for the players below just below that as well, 371 00:22:27,453 --> 00:22:30,173 Speaker 5: so that they're creating real depth and competition for places, 372 00:22:31,213 --> 00:22:33,133 Speaker 5: and that's we need to be able to. We need 373 00:22:33,173 --> 00:22:34,693 Speaker 5: to do that more as well. 374 00:22:35,853 --> 00:22:38,533 Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting stuff from Kirsty Bond, and I think she's 375 00:22:38,573 --> 00:22:42,813 Speaker 2: saying what a lot of New Zealand women cricketers are 376 00:22:42,853 --> 00:22:45,493 Speaker 2: saying about the side at the moment. They're just not 377 00:22:45,653 --> 00:22:49,373 Speaker 2: fronting up when they should be and the better players, 378 00:22:49,533 --> 00:22:53,653 Speaker 2: the experienced players, are not being able to deliver. I 379 00:22:53,653 --> 00:22:56,293 Speaker 2: think Kirsty's right when she says Jerry that you know 380 00:22:58,173 --> 00:23:01,293 Speaker 2: it's been a common feature that the experienced players have 381 00:23:01,413 --> 00:23:03,853 Speaker 2: held the batting together even in her time. You know 382 00:23:03,933 --> 00:23:09,893 Speaker 2: where Debbie Hockley and other players were fronting up. Now 383 00:23:10,133 --> 00:23:15,813 Speaker 2: it's it's a tough time and a quick repair job 384 00:23:16,533 --> 00:23:21,093 Speaker 2: is something that's not going to be easy to defined 385 00:23:21,413 --> 00:23:24,013 Speaker 2: and all the money in the world won't prove it either, 386 00:23:24,013 --> 00:23:24,373 Speaker 2: will it. 387 00:23:24,853 --> 00:23:27,733 Speaker 4: I found it a hard listen actually once, to be honest, 388 00:23:27,893 --> 00:23:31,333 Speaker 4: I know Kirsty, I met her oh years ago and 389 00:23:31,493 --> 00:23:35,093 Speaker 4: spent two to three days in christ Church. 390 00:23:35,813 --> 00:23:38,053 Speaker 3: How they're making a coaching video. 391 00:23:38,333 --> 00:23:42,893 Speaker 4: And she and Chris Harris very kindly put up with me. 392 00:23:45,973 --> 00:23:49,533 Speaker 4: I felt it was it was, yeah, it was. I 393 00:23:49,613 --> 00:23:53,373 Speaker 4: felt a bit heavy hearted there listening to her because 394 00:23:53,373 --> 00:23:57,373 Speaker 4: she told a narrative to me. I've lost lost impetus 395 00:23:58,173 --> 00:24:01,253 Speaker 4: and momentum from where New Zealand were and in the 396 00:24:01,413 --> 00:24:05,613 Speaker 4: in the nineties and of course reaching the pinnacle in 397 00:24:05,733 --> 00:24:08,853 Speaker 4: two thousand winning the World Cup. They they were quite 398 00:24:08,853 --> 00:24:12,773 Speaker 4: a formidable force actually that New Zealand women's side in 399 00:24:12,853 --> 00:24:15,653 Speaker 4: the early two thousands. They got to a semi final 400 00:24:15,693 --> 00:24:18,213 Speaker 4: in two thousand and five in the World Cup. They 401 00:24:18,253 --> 00:24:21,133 Speaker 4: got to the finals of the ODI World Cup and 402 00:24:21,173 --> 00:24:23,533 Speaker 4: the T twenty World Cup in two thousand and nine. 403 00:24:23,973 --> 00:24:26,453 Speaker 3: But since then England. 404 00:24:26,173 --> 00:24:29,493 Speaker 4: And Australia in particular, I guess India have joined that 405 00:24:30,933 --> 00:24:34,533 Speaker 4: have raised money and the profile of the women's game 406 00:24:34,613 --> 00:24:40,213 Speaker 4: and the importance of it and the disparities that Kirsty 407 00:24:40,293 --> 00:24:44,733 Speaker 4: and you have just mentioned are so large now it 408 00:24:44,813 --> 00:24:49,533 Speaker 4: kind of looks like amateurs playing professionals those eight matches recently, 409 00:24:50,653 --> 00:24:54,093 Speaker 4: And that's our top side, isn't it. They are our 410 00:24:54,133 --> 00:24:58,533 Speaker 4: top players. They represent all the female players in New Zealand. 411 00:24:58,733 --> 00:25:01,973 Speaker 4: And to be fair, I mean, with the exception of 412 00:25:02,013 --> 00:25:05,453 Speaker 4: say the third T twenty match they played, the general 413 00:25:05,493 --> 00:25:07,853 Speaker 4: consensus was that was the best team we could have 414 00:25:07,893 --> 00:25:12,173 Speaker 4: selected to go to England that was on offer. And 415 00:25:12,613 --> 00:25:16,573 Speaker 4: you know, the numbers clearly aren't there. And she also 416 00:25:16,733 --> 00:25:21,493 Speaker 4: mentioned that amalgamation didn't she how things when the women's 417 00:25:21,573 --> 00:25:25,893 Speaker 4: game came and joined the men's administration. Initially it went 418 00:25:26,053 --> 00:25:29,173 Speaker 4: were very well with coaching in the media, but the 419 00:25:29,253 --> 00:25:35,533 Speaker 4: grassroots then has atro feed. And I looked up last 420 00:25:35,613 --> 00:25:39,013 Speaker 4: night when you told me we were doing this that 421 00:25:39,933 --> 00:25:44,653 Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen, over ninety percent of clubs had no 422 00:25:44,813 --> 00:25:49,413 Speaker 4: female sides in New Zealand and sixty percent of clubs 423 00:25:49,813 --> 00:25:51,613 Speaker 4: didn't even offer cricket. 424 00:25:51,293 --> 00:25:54,453 Speaker 3: For girls at all. What about the short term? 425 00:25:55,373 --> 00:25:58,133 Speaker 4: I'm thinking when you said that you asked her that question, 426 00:25:59,173 --> 00:26:02,733 Speaker 4: I guess you're talking about October when they played the 427 00:26:03,173 --> 00:26:07,373 Speaker 4: in Blangladesh, isn't it? And I would if it was me, 428 00:26:09,053 --> 00:26:12,253 Speaker 4: I'd try and say a few things. I'd say, find 429 00:26:12,253 --> 00:26:14,613 Speaker 4: a way to play spin, because you're going to get 430 00:26:14,653 --> 00:26:18,053 Speaker 4: spin bowling over in Bangladesh and you're going to find 431 00:26:18,813 --> 00:26:23,813 Speaker 4: conditions that are going to assist spin bowling, and they've 432 00:26:23,853 --> 00:26:26,813 Speaker 4: a got to stay in b they've got to work 433 00:26:26,853 --> 00:26:29,933 Speaker 4: out where they can score and when they move from 434 00:26:30,053 --> 00:26:36,173 Speaker 4: defense to trying to score to attack, be aware of 435 00:26:36,333 --> 00:26:39,453 Speaker 4: not opening up and favoring the leg side. Do you 436 00:26:39,493 --> 00:26:44,013 Speaker 4: know what wadds The England team on green pictures that 437 00:26:44,053 --> 00:26:46,213 Speaker 4: had been raining a lot there when they had been playing, 438 00:26:47,293 --> 00:26:49,333 Speaker 4: took twenty one of the thirty week in New Zealand 439 00:26:49,333 --> 00:26:52,933 Speaker 4: wickets to four. That's about sixty eight to seventy percent. 440 00:26:53,813 --> 00:26:57,573 Speaker 4: They bowled over half the overs and they weren't really 441 00:26:57,773 --> 00:27:01,093 Speaker 4: turning pictures. They were just right arm or left arm 442 00:27:01,093 --> 00:27:06,013 Speaker 4: bowlers bringing the ball back in and so that's one 443 00:27:06,053 --> 00:27:09,173 Speaker 4: thing they've got to do, learn to practic against them. 444 00:27:09,533 --> 00:27:12,293 Speaker 3: Secondly, our tech was. 445 00:27:12,373 --> 00:27:17,653 Speaker 4: Reliant on medium fast bowling and in dry spinning conditions, 446 00:27:17,893 --> 00:27:20,853 Speaker 4: you've got a bowl at the stumps and clever changes 447 00:27:20,893 --> 00:27:21,213 Speaker 4: of pace. 448 00:27:21,333 --> 00:27:22,093 Speaker 3: That's number two. 449 00:27:22,453 --> 00:27:30,093 Speaker 4: Number three, hold their catchers, hold their catchers. And the 450 00:27:30,173 --> 00:27:34,493 Speaker 4: lastly people like Green and Halliday have got a join 451 00:27:35,013 --> 00:27:39,013 Speaker 4: baits Divine Kerr and use their batting to get use 452 00:27:39,133 --> 00:27:42,813 Speaker 4: most of the overs, so that I don't know, what 453 00:27:42,853 --> 00:27:44,533 Speaker 4: do you think in the short term. 454 00:27:45,253 --> 00:27:47,493 Speaker 2: Well, I think they've got to do something different, because 455 00:27:47,933 --> 00:27:51,213 Speaker 2: as the old adages, you don't do the same thing 456 00:27:51,533 --> 00:27:54,413 Speaker 2: and expect a different outcome. And that is one of 457 00:27:54,413 --> 00:27:57,133 Speaker 2: the areas that I was concerned about whether the coaching 458 00:27:57,573 --> 00:28:01,093 Speaker 2: is that is getting through to those players. They took 459 00:28:01,173 --> 00:28:03,853 Speaker 2: Lauren down who to my mind is probably one of 460 00:28:03,933 --> 00:28:07,453 Speaker 2: their best technically equipped players, and how she hasn't played 461 00:28:07,493 --> 00:28:09,933 Speaker 2: a lot of cricket, but when they used her, they 462 00:28:09,973 --> 00:28:14,293 Speaker 2: batted her down the order. And also they took another player, 463 00:28:14,333 --> 00:28:18,053 Speaker 2: Mikayla greg who's been around for quite a period of 464 00:28:18,133 --> 00:28:20,333 Speaker 2: time in the New Zealand Woman's game and she didn't 465 00:28:20,373 --> 00:28:22,933 Speaker 2: even play a game. Now, somewhere along the line, you've 466 00:28:22,933 --> 00:28:25,693 Speaker 2: got to make a change. The likes of Plumber is 467 00:28:25,733 --> 00:28:28,053 Speaker 2: struggling at the top of the order. Divines should be 468 00:28:28,133 --> 00:28:31,053 Speaker 2: opening in ten twenties to my mind, and plumb it 469 00:28:31,133 --> 00:28:33,573 Speaker 2: down the order. Now you can understand that they are 470 00:28:33,613 --> 00:28:35,693 Speaker 2: trying new things and that might well have been the 471 00:28:35,733 --> 00:28:38,893 Speaker 2: case for this side but it hasn't worked. And they're 472 00:28:38,933 --> 00:28:41,613 Speaker 2: going to go to a World Championship a series in 473 00:28:41,653 --> 00:28:45,453 Speaker 2: Bangladesh and as you say they're going to need spinners, well, 474 00:28:45,493 --> 00:28:48,333 Speaker 2: England had three of the very best on show, didn't 475 00:28:48,333 --> 00:28:54,333 Speaker 2: they And they just monstered the New Zealand side. So 476 00:28:54,533 --> 00:28:56,733 Speaker 2: somewhere along the line, they've got to find a way 477 00:28:56,773 --> 00:28:59,453 Speaker 2: to play the game in those conditions. They've got to 478 00:28:59,453 --> 00:29:01,933 Speaker 2: find a way to work the ball into a gap 479 00:29:01,973 --> 00:29:05,293 Speaker 2: and take a single, to rotate the strike, to do anything, 480 00:29:06,053 --> 00:29:08,853 Speaker 2: rather than be left with having to play million dollar 481 00:29:08,933 --> 00:29:12,173 Speaker 2: shots that ended up getting them out towards the end. 482 00:29:12,213 --> 00:29:16,253 Speaker 2: And I watched the games on the New Zealand Cricket website. 483 00:29:16,293 --> 00:29:19,693 Speaker 2: They came in from SkyTV, so we had to put 484 00:29:19,773 --> 00:29:24,733 Speaker 2: up with the likes of Nick Knight and and just 485 00:29:24,973 --> 00:29:29,813 Speaker 2: cronies basically doing their best to give New Zealand a chance. 486 00:29:29,893 --> 00:29:33,373 Speaker 2: But it was difficult to watch. But the things that 487 00:29:33,453 --> 00:29:36,613 Speaker 2: you say are to me the most important things. The 488 00:29:36,733 --> 00:29:41,533 Speaker 2: other thing is body language. England looked as though they 489 00:29:41,613 --> 00:29:45,573 Speaker 2: were enjoying themselves. They were having fun. They told us 490 00:29:45,573 --> 00:29:48,293 Speaker 2: they were there to be ruthless and they were. The 491 00:29:48,333 --> 00:29:51,373 Speaker 2: New Zealand side looked as though they were looking to 492 00:29:51,413 --> 00:29:54,373 Speaker 2: try and save the game all the time rather than 493 00:29:54,413 --> 00:29:56,773 Speaker 2: go out and win it. And I think you have 494 00:29:56,893 --> 00:30:01,733 Speaker 2: to achieve that first before you can believe in yourself 495 00:30:01,773 --> 00:30:06,293 Speaker 2: and your ability to win games. I know it's harsh, 496 00:30:06,413 --> 00:30:08,253 Speaker 2: but I think they've got a face up to that 497 00:30:08,613 --> 00:30:11,333 Speaker 2: and I hope they're doing the inquiry that is doing 498 00:30:11,373 --> 00:30:14,013 Speaker 2: that at New Zealand Cricket High Performance. 499 00:30:14,573 --> 00:30:15,733 Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe they are. 500 00:30:16,093 --> 00:30:18,373 Speaker 4: I've made a few inquiries and I think that is 501 00:30:18,613 --> 00:30:20,853 Speaker 4: that's that's that's going to happen. 502 00:30:21,813 --> 00:30:24,333 Speaker 3: I just want to see the team improve once. 503 00:30:24,493 --> 00:30:27,573 Speaker 4: I'd like to see them getting better, you know over 504 00:30:27,613 --> 00:30:30,093 Speaker 4: a five Well there's eight games here. You'd want to 505 00:30:30,093 --> 00:30:34,013 Speaker 4: see them improve over those eight games. That might not 506 00:30:34,213 --> 00:30:37,093 Speaker 4: mean that they necessarily win straight away. 507 00:30:37,333 --> 00:30:41,293 Speaker 1: Brian Waddle Jeremy Cooney on the front foot. 508 00:30:41,173 --> 00:30:42,613 Speaker 2: Jerry, I s hit your task last week? 509 00:30:42,613 --> 00:30:43,093 Speaker 3: Did you do it? 510 00:30:43,613 --> 00:30:43,813 Speaker 2: Well? 511 00:30:43,813 --> 00:30:44,933 Speaker 3: What was the task again? 512 00:30:47,573 --> 00:30:48,213 Speaker 2: Don't tell me? 513 00:30:50,533 --> 00:30:52,573 Speaker 3: What about the coach? 514 00:30:53,853 --> 00:30:55,773 Speaker 2: About the bowling coach? Who's going to be the next 515 00:30:55,773 --> 00:30:59,093 Speaker 2: bowling coach? Is that there's an offer up They've asked 516 00:30:59,133 --> 00:31:03,093 Speaker 2: for somebody to apply. Have you applied? I've applied time 517 00:31:03,173 --> 00:31:04,173 Speaker 2: during the cricket season. 518 00:31:04,253 --> 00:31:08,213 Speaker 4: Yeah, I've applied, I've written a very long letter and 519 00:31:08,613 --> 00:31:11,133 Speaker 4: I'm sending it by a pigeon. 520 00:31:11,333 --> 00:31:14,293 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. 521 00:31:14,373 --> 00:31:19,053 Speaker 4: I don't know quite how to approach this one, Wadds. 522 00:31:19,093 --> 00:31:23,573 Speaker 4: I mean with you and I can trade names, which 523 00:31:23,613 --> 00:31:27,933 Speaker 4: is kind of the way most podcasts kind of go, 524 00:31:28,173 --> 00:31:30,853 Speaker 4: if you know what I mean, I'm The first thing 525 00:31:30,933 --> 00:31:35,453 Speaker 4: is it'll be it's run by the High Performance. They 526 00:31:35,453 --> 00:31:40,533 Speaker 4: are the people who'll be, you know, interviewing, so it'll 527 00:31:40,533 --> 00:31:46,093 Speaker 4: be old Stronach will be there interviewing potential coaches who 528 00:31:46,133 --> 00:31:50,053 Speaker 4: are interested, so you might get the message yourself tomorrow, Wodds. 529 00:31:50,173 --> 00:31:55,813 Speaker 3: And and he will have run around the various thing. 530 00:31:55,893 --> 00:31:59,053 Speaker 4: He'll have his little black book that he'll have names 531 00:31:59,093 --> 00:32:03,533 Speaker 4: and I would hope, and he'll consult I would have 532 00:32:03,573 --> 00:32:07,053 Speaker 4: thought he had consulted overseas players, you know, even if 533 00:32:07,053 --> 00:32:10,093 Speaker 4: they're New Zealands. Wouldn't he can salt Fleming and Bond 534 00:32:10,133 --> 00:32:14,133 Speaker 4: and Vittore and those sorts of people to get their ideas. 535 00:32:14,613 --> 00:32:19,653 Speaker 4: Surely you use you'd use that resource that we've got. 536 00:32:20,893 --> 00:32:24,853 Speaker 4: The second thing, so that's who's in charge at this stage. 537 00:32:26,493 --> 00:32:31,733 Speaker 4: The second point is you can't avoid seeing the different 538 00:32:31,813 --> 00:32:36,173 Speaker 4: coaches around when New Zealand play this last year. I've 539 00:32:36,213 --> 00:32:42,253 Speaker 4: seen Jacob Orum, Kyle Mills was at the base in Reserve, 540 00:32:42,293 --> 00:32:46,773 Speaker 4: if you remember Graham Oldridge. I've seen around as well. 541 00:32:47,733 --> 00:32:51,293 Speaker 4: So I would ask you a couple of questions. Is 542 00:32:51,293 --> 00:32:54,333 Speaker 4: there a pathway for coaching. We've got a pathway for players, 543 00:32:55,133 --> 00:33:00,013 Speaker 4: we know that age groups, development teams, you know, and 544 00:33:00,013 --> 00:33:04,133 Speaker 4: then working through to provincial sides, A teams going through 545 00:33:04,173 --> 00:33:09,213 Speaker 4: and to again different selection elevens and from the A 546 00:33:09,453 --> 00:33:11,653 Speaker 4: side you then move, if you're good enough, into the 547 00:33:11,653 --> 00:33:16,053 Speaker 4: New Zealand side. Is there some sort of pathway for coaches? 548 00:33:16,093 --> 00:33:17,253 Speaker 4: Can you tell me that. 549 00:33:17,493 --> 00:33:20,373 Speaker 2: No, they have a plan I suppose about what they're 550 00:33:20,413 --> 00:33:22,453 Speaker 2: going to do with coaches. I mean, Jurgensen was not 551 00:33:22,493 --> 00:33:25,333 Speaker 2: going to be the bowling coach for the rest of time, 552 00:33:25,453 --> 00:33:28,253 Speaker 2: so you know you must have somebody lined up who 553 00:33:28,293 --> 00:33:31,133 Speaker 2: would we like next Onnce Shane moves on, which he 554 00:33:31,173 --> 00:33:33,253 Speaker 2: has done to take over Wellington and he's spent a 555 00:33:33,293 --> 00:33:35,693 Speaker 2: good time with a lot of the bowlers and now 556 00:33:35,733 --> 00:33:40,493 Speaker 2: he's working with the likes of Seers and down well 557 00:33:40,573 --> 00:33:44,733 Speaker 2: Nathan Smith as well, and down in Canterbury a guy 558 00:33:44,733 --> 00:33:49,013 Speaker 2: called Brendan Donkers who's coached the New Zealand eighteen when 559 00:33:49,013 --> 00:33:51,173 Speaker 2: they went on a trip to Australia. Is working with 560 00:33:51,693 --> 00:33:55,533 Speaker 2: Zach Fuchs, with Will O'Rourke, and they must be in 561 00:33:55,573 --> 00:33:58,693 Speaker 2: the frame. Donkers certainly must be in the frame seeing 562 00:33:58,733 --> 00:34:03,213 Speaker 2: that Shane Jurgenson has moved on, so they must have 563 00:34:04,093 --> 00:34:06,293 Speaker 2: a front runner, you would think, wouldn't you. 564 00:34:07,373 --> 00:34:10,853 Speaker 4: You're right, well, I'm not sure whether we've asked the 565 00:34:10,933 --> 00:34:13,453 Speaker 4: question about a pathway for coaches, because that's a more 566 00:34:13,493 --> 00:34:15,173 Speaker 4: long term kind of thing. 567 00:34:15,253 --> 00:34:16,853 Speaker 3: Is that we are in the end. 568 00:34:17,693 --> 00:34:23,213 Speaker 4: I don't think we could ever if most boards get 569 00:34:23,213 --> 00:34:28,013 Speaker 4: their money to dispense with around New Zealand from the 570 00:34:28,093 --> 00:34:33,493 Speaker 4: television broadcast funds. Spark have pulled out, HEVI and z 571 00:34:33,693 --> 00:34:36,333 Speaker 4: have moved in for the last couple of years. 572 00:34:37,453 --> 00:34:38,613 Speaker 3: What's going to happen then? 573 00:34:39,493 --> 00:34:43,613 Speaker 4: So I'm not convinced we are going to have that 574 00:34:44,533 --> 00:34:49,013 Speaker 4: money to be able to spend on the people like, well, 575 00:34:49,053 --> 00:34:50,973 Speaker 4: you're not going to get a fleming, are you. You're 576 00:34:50,973 --> 00:34:52,733 Speaker 4: not going to get a bond, You're not going to. 577 00:34:52,733 --> 00:34:53,453 Speaker 3: Get a vitry. 578 00:34:54,493 --> 00:35:00,173 Speaker 4: Those kinds of coaches McCullum, they're out of out of 579 00:35:00,213 --> 00:35:05,253 Speaker 4: the league, I'm afraid. And those coaches that come from Australia, England, 580 00:35:05,453 --> 00:35:09,813 Speaker 4: India are are untouched of and I would have thought 581 00:35:09,853 --> 00:35:15,093 Speaker 4: they're a coaches as well, wouldn't be interested in coming 582 00:35:15,133 --> 00:35:18,413 Speaker 4: to New Zealand and we couldn't offer them the money anyway. 583 00:35:18,693 --> 00:35:22,853 Speaker 4: So we are restricted if we are looking elsewhere in 584 00:35:22,893 --> 00:35:27,213 Speaker 4: the world other than at home, we are restricted to 585 00:35:27,253 --> 00:35:31,133 Speaker 4: going and looking at South Africa eighteen. Now that's what 586 00:35:31,173 --> 00:35:35,013 Speaker 4: makes me think there's no pathway. Rob Walter was here 587 00:35:35,013 --> 00:35:38,413 Speaker 4: in New Zealand at Central Districts. He took the eighteen 588 00:35:38,493 --> 00:35:43,573 Speaker 4: to India and he's gone. He's now lead. 589 00:35:43,373 --> 00:35:44,933 Speaker 3: Coach to South Africa, isn't he. 590 00:35:45,973 --> 00:35:46,253 Speaker 2: Yes. 591 00:35:47,653 --> 00:35:53,133 Speaker 4: Heinrich Mullan was up in Auckland. He's now head coach 592 00:35:53,173 --> 00:35:58,253 Speaker 4: of Ireland. We are losing coaches. They're going the other way. 593 00:35:59,213 --> 00:35:59,413 Speaker 3: Now. 594 00:35:59,413 --> 00:36:01,293 Speaker 4: That says to me there's no pathway. There was no 595 00:36:01,333 --> 00:36:03,933 Speaker 4: one tapping Rob Walter or Heinrich Mallard on the shoulder 596 00:36:03,973 --> 00:36:08,173 Speaker 4: saying hey, my name is Brian Strottich. We're really interested 597 00:36:08,173 --> 00:36:10,653 Speaker 4: in looking at you for the for the New Zealand coach. 598 00:36:10,853 --> 00:36:11,653 Speaker 3: That didn't happen. 599 00:36:11,733 --> 00:36:16,213 Speaker 2: I don't think, well, they've taken the other per path. 600 00:36:16,293 --> 00:36:18,413 Speaker 2: That's the that's the problem. You're talking about the pathway's 601 00:36:18,453 --> 00:36:21,093 Speaker 2: gone in the wrong direction and we are needing some 602 00:36:21,293 --> 00:36:26,253 Speaker 2: Well that's right now. So you know the bowling coach 603 00:36:26,573 --> 00:36:30,053 Speaker 2: is the first option that they've had to make a 604 00:36:30,093 --> 00:36:33,253 Speaker 2: decision on. And I guess in time we'll know I'll 605 00:36:33,293 --> 00:36:34,653 Speaker 2: go for Brendan Donkers. 606 00:36:35,853 --> 00:36:39,893 Speaker 4: Well what what what I mean? We're in a time 607 00:36:39,893 --> 00:36:45,293 Speaker 4: of transition, right. You need experienced coaches, you need a 608 00:36:45,293 --> 00:36:46,533 Speaker 4: lot of technical info. 609 00:36:47,013 --> 00:36:47,573 Speaker 3: You've got to have. 610 00:36:47,533 --> 00:36:50,373 Speaker 4: Good systems of data so you when you analyze things, 611 00:36:50,373 --> 00:36:53,173 Speaker 4: you improve them and you avoid injuries. 612 00:36:53,853 --> 00:36:55,213 Speaker 3: Are raw and seers. 613 00:36:56,133 --> 00:36:58,453 Speaker 4: And we've got Duffy in the contract now in the 614 00:36:58,493 --> 00:36:59,333 Speaker 4: contract system. 615 00:36:59,533 --> 00:37:01,253 Speaker 3: Yes, who is going. 616 00:37:01,573 --> 00:37:04,333 Speaker 4: We've also, if you think about it, we've got a 617 00:37:04,413 --> 00:37:06,693 Speaker 4: number of spinners plying their trade with the Red but 618 00:37:06,693 --> 00:37:10,013 Speaker 4: we've got Phillip's a beginner. We've got Satna learning to 619 00:37:10,053 --> 00:37:12,773 Speaker 4: be different in how to get a turning ball through 620 00:37:12,813 --> 00:37:16,973 Speaker 4: the defense, not just a through attack a batsman attacking. 621 00:37:17,493 --> 00:37:19,613 Speaker 4: We've got ag As Patel who goes up and down. 622 00:37:19,653 --> 00:37:22,413 Speaker 4: It gets the ball up and then down before the batsman, 623 00:37:23,053 --> 00:37:26,733 Speaker 4: but he needs more consistency. We've got Bracewooll who is 624 00:37:26,853 --> 00:37:30,093 Speaker 4: much the same as Patel up and down but potentially 625 00:37:30,133 --> 00:37:33,413 Speaker 4: a big turner. I think we need a spin coach. 626 00:37:33,733 --> 00:37:35,693 Speaker 4: We're off to India for three Tests. 627 00:37:36,093 --> 00:37:36,853 Speaker 3: We are also. 628 00:37:36,773 --> 00:37:41,813 Speaker 4: Playing Pakistan and Sri Lanka. You know, do we want 629 00:37:41,853 --> 00:37:42,533 Speaker 4: up and downsmen? 630 00:37:42,573 --> 00:37:42,733 Speaker 3: As? 631 00:37:42,733 --> 00:37:45,453 Speaker 4: Do we want to show a Basha a tall bowler 632 00:37:45,493 --> 00:37:48,893 Speaker 4: to bowl into the pitch. So I reckon we need 633 00:37:48,893 --> 00:37:53,933 Speaker 4: a spin coach as well, a Jeeton Patel who's with England. Now, 634 00:37:54,013 --> 00:37:58,973 Speaker 4: we can't afford this swads. New Zealand cannot afford those people. 635 00:38:00,653 --> 00:38:03,973 Speaker 4: What do we do We come back to New Zealand 636 00:38:04,133 --> 00:38:04,853 Speaker 4: is the answer. 637 00:38:06,013 --> 00:38:06,293 Speaker 3: Now. 638 00:38:06,573 --> 00:38:12,413 Speaker 4: I like the look of Andre Adams and I think 639 00:38:12,933 --> 00:38:19,253 Speaker 4: he thinks differently. I think he he's shown that he's 640 00:38:19,253 --> 00:38:21,493 Speaker 4: been a coach of New Zealand in the past. 641 00:38:22,453 --> 00:38:25,133 Speaker 3: He was at Auckland for some years. 642 00:38:28,093 --> 00:38:32,133 Speaker 4: He's currently in Bangladesh. They all get paid US dollars 643 00:38:32,213 --> 00:38:34,613 Speaker 4: of course, and they'll be all converting and back to 644 00:38:34,733 --> 00:38:38,733 Speaker 4: New Zealand dollars and things like that. I would like 645 00:38:38,813 --> 00:38:44,093 Speaker 4: to see him given an opportunity. I think he's a 646 00:38:44,213 --> 00:38:50,133 Speaker 4: very good player, highly regarded coached in Australia as well 647 00:38:50,813 --> 00:38:54,093 Speaker 4: as stateside. I'd like to see him have a crack. 648 00:38:54,173 --> 00:38:58,413 Speaker 4: But I understand you Brent your donkers, not your bonkers, 649 00:38:58,413 --> 00:39:03,293 Speaker 4: your donkers, because he's at the high performance as well, 650 00:39:03,333 --> 00:39:06,373 Speaker 4: and he's worked with those players, so that I think 651 00:39:06,413 --> 00:39:08,293 Speaker 4: we're going to have to be homegrown. Was I don't 652 00:39:08,413 --> 00:39:10,573 Speaker 4: We've got haven't got a chance otherwise. 653 00:39:10,893 --> 00:39:13,653 Speaker 2: Themes the way it's going, and it'll be interesting to 654 00:39:13,653 --> 00:39:16,813 Speaker 2: see what happens when they finally make a decision, because 655 00:39:16,933 --> 00:39:19,173 Speaker 2: as you say, they're not far away from sending a 656 00:39:19,173 --> 00:39:23,693 Speaker 2: team to the subcontinent and to play against India where 657 00:39:23,973 --> 00:39:27,613 Speaker 2: a good bowling coach will be required. We'll wait for 658 00:39:27,693 --> 00:39:31,613 Speaker 2: the outcome of that. You have your money where it is, Jerry. 659 00:39:30,853 --> 00:39:37,653 Speaker 2: I'll bow to your knowledge, experience and research capacity. 660 00:39:38,613 --> 00:39:41,933 Speaker 3: And that's what you. 661 00:39:42,013 --> 00:39:47,493 Speaker 2: Said, the ultimate compliment and thank you for doing the 662 00:39:47,533 --> 00:39:49,933 Speaker 2: work that I gave you. You can have a little 663 00:39:49,973 --> 00:39:53,493 Speaker 2: rest and watch the Test match from Edgemstone and we'll 664 00:39:53,493 --> 00:39:56,053 Speaker 2: talk about that next week on the front four eight. 665 00:39:56,253 --> 00:39:56,453 Speaker 3: Yeah. 666 00:39:56,493 --> 00:40:00,453 Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to that, see how the Westerndies go 667 00:40:00,533 --> 00:40:02,693 Speaker 4: and see if they can continue that little bit of 668 00:40:02,733 --> 00:40:06,973 Speaker 4: improvement back for another half day and the second innings. 669 00:40:07,013 --> 00:40:07,653 Speaker 3: That'll be good. 670 00:40:08,413 --> 00:40:11,933 Speaker 4: Those little improvements and steps that I was talking about 671 00:40:11,973 --> 00:40:12,173 Speaker 4: for the. 672 00:40:12,173 --> 00:40:16,053 Speaker 3: Women exactly trip the next week, mate, take care of 673 00:40:16,053 --> 00:40:22,213 Speaker 3: me winter well, all the world the qualities of summer sing. 674 00:40:22,533 --> 00:40:23,733 Speaker 4: Do do 675 00:40:27,573 --> 00:40:30,213 Speaker 1: For more from News Talk, set B Listen live on 676 00:40:30,333 --> 00:40:33,293 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 677 00:40:33,333 --> 00:40:35,893 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio