WEBVTT - Are big boozy work Christmas parties over for good? 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:06.040 Kyota. 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.080 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:10.719 daily podcast. 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:17.279 Presented by the New Zealand Herald. Tis the season to 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:18.239 celebrate the. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:22.080 End of year with your workmates on the company dime. 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:25.920 But are the days of huge bashes and unlimited bar 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.840 tabs long gone? They've always been high risk and loaded 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:34.280 with illegal landmines, with employees towing the line between loose 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.920 networking and plain unprofessional. 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.440 So should companies ditch the drama for direct deposits or 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.840 is there still a little magic to the traditional Christmas 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:48.680 work do? Today? On the Front Page, aut Professor. 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.360 Of Management Candace Harris's with us to take a look 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:59.080 at work parties past, present, and yet to come. So Candace, 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.320 how have you work Christmas parties evolved in recent years? 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:05.839 Yes? Look good question. 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:08.600 I mean traditionally when we think of a Christmas party, 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.000 ideas of excess and chaos kind of come to mind. 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:14.319 And if you look at sort of movies, etc. 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.560 There's generally that with even a romantic subplot and all 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:19.760 things that we don't really want at work in the 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.040 modern age, so they have moved from those kind of 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:27.800 lavish late night open bar type riscue behavior events through 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:32.400 to being more modest, certainly better planned and structured, and 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.520 more they work to be more inclusive, to bring a 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:37.800 sort of a wider church of people rather than just 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.680 those that are up for a late night you know party. 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:47.280 And they're not even called mostly Christmas parties anymore, are they. 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.720 They're more like end of year celebrations. That's really important 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:52.160 for diversity reasons. 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:56.559 Hey oh look, absolutely it is seen has been more inclusive. 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.800 People do often appreciate and ignoment of Christmas at an 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:06.040 interview celebration, but Christmas is one day as well, and 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.600 people have worked hard all year, so it is nice 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.560 to bring everyone together. You've got to consider also that 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.079 with hybrid work arrangements, sometimes it may be the only 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:20.480 time that we see someone from another division or someone 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:23.000 perhaps more senior to where we're working. 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:24.799 So it is nice to bring people together. 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:29.400 Absolutely from an HR standpoint, what are the top legal 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.880 or even reputational risks that come with these kind of 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:33.600 get togethers. 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.360 Good question again, So under the Health and Safety and 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.600 Workout two fifteen, employers do have what's called this primary 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:45.360 duty of care as parties are legally work events, and 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.440 that includes those that are held off site, so it's 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.400 not just those in your physical kind of workplace. So 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.799 the person undertaking the business does have this primary duty 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:56.760 of care to. 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:58.400 Ensure that it is a safe event. 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.840 And so it's about planning for a safety event, working 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.720 to sort of mitigate risk. But it is fair to 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.360 say that a major risk often at work parties is 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.840 alcohol and then the resulting things that can come from 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:16.680 too much alcohol in terms of perhaps poor judgments being made, 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:22.120 harassments of it is actually physical risks people tripping, falling, 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:24.600 and then at the end of it, you know how 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.519 people are actually getting home safe as well. 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:29.799 You also asked about reputational risk. 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:33.200 You know, one worry is that the Christmas party lives 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:37.960 on forever through social media or also people are streaming 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.400 the Christmas party live and saying, look at where I 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.760 am at such a good time, and so it does 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.200 sort of put a whole new era of reputational and 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.000 also brand risk as well. Used to just be hr 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.640 that were quite nervous about Christmas parties. I think you 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:54.560 could put the marketing in the comms people in that 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:55.280 camp as well. 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.880 Well. With alcohol obviously comes in appropriate conduct, blurred bound 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.680 reason those safety issues that you spoke about as well. 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:07.000 Work parties are obviously very high risk for employers. Have 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:11.000 companies just decided to eliminate any possibility of misconduct really 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:12.119 at these days? 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.560 Yeah, Look, some have gone alcohol free. 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:19.080 It is fair to say others may limit alcohol, and 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:21.160 there's various ways you can do that. You may give 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:25.479 staff two drinks tokens, and once they've used that, there 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:26.119 is no cash. 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:30.640 Far. Another way is perhaps limiting the time of the event. 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:32.840 Putting it on during the day can be another thing. 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:34.920 You know, the Christmas party is twelve or two and 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:39.520 that is it. Historically some of them had a start 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.279 time but no clear finish time. You know, there'd be 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:46.440 sort of these eight hour extravaganzas, which so definitely there's 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.719 much tighter boundaries put around them these days. And also 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.800 the provision of zero alcohol options because which a lot 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:56.520 of people have chosen not to drink for various you know, 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.520 sort of health, cultural, religious reasons, et ce. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.440 I read somewhere as well when I was researching this. 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.920 Obviously this is a worldwide phenomenon. I read this really 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:07.400 good quote. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:11.960 It said alcohol does not cancel power dynamics, and even 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.520 though your boss might be on the dance floor wearing 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.520 a Christmas jumper or a funny hat or something. 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:19.280 There's still your boss. 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.200 And it was quite funny. One line, and I think 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.560 it was from Yahoo or something. I'll have to find it, 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.960 but it was like, you know, Mary holding her shoes 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.120 at the dance floor are getting you to chug down 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:33.760 your wine or something. Might be doing your performance review 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.599 in three months time, you know, and having that in mind. 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.520 And another quote is what experts have said to remember, 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:44.920 if something feels thrilling at ten pm, ask yourself how 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.760 it would read at ten am in the boardroom. 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.080 Very good point. Yeah, absolutely. 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:54.240 I mean we had very clear professional expectations for behavior 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:58.280 for people all year. So it absolutely makes no sense 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:02.280 that everything is free reign and you know, do what 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:05.680 you want at this sort of six hour Christmas party. 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:10.000 It's completely nonsensical. And you know, we haven't really researched 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.640 Christmas parties in any great depth internationally. 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:16.280 But they can be quite career limiting for some. 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:20.279 That may be the thing that then carries you forward 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.599 into next year. You know, the reputational risk for you 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.120 individually in terms of your career, and then also not 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:32.320 to mention perhaps for the organization various workplace relationships as well. 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.919 I mean that may be the one thing that you 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:39.120 then equate that leader with, is that crazy dancing, etc. 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:44.320 So yeah, it's certainly risky territory. 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.160 If you have an annual party at your office, then 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:52.920 you'll not it can be the greatest pit fall of 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:56.039 the social year. Traditionally it's the night when the obvious 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.479 boy shakes hands with the boss and his secretary gets 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.320 to kiss him and then drink inside them. They can 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.000 both tell you how to run the firm, but it's 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.719 sometimes a party with a twelve month hangover and the 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.559 next day really is important to remember what you said 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.800 to whom the night before, whether you think it's a 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.920 good idea all a terrible mistake. Either way, you'll probably 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.560 turn up. Heads are counted and nobody wants to be 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:19.480 called scrooge. 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:25.840 And definitely you mentioned before, social media has completely changed 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.840 the game. I saw an executive recently, actually within the 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:33.120 last couple of weeks at National Australia Bank's offshoot it's 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:37.119 called You Bank. They were asked to leave recently after 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.040 a disturbing image was taken. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:40.960 At a Christmas function. 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:45.760 So I suppose that social media has just completely flipped 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:46.160 the switch. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:52.280 Yes, well, you know, good Christmas parties these days are 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.200 well planned and you plan to kind of mitigate in 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.239 this sort of control for risk as well, Social media 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.680 is a whole other dimension because people are sort of 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.960 doing it individually as well, so you don't know who's 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:11.400 taking pictures of what, posting what, and also when they're 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:11.880 doing it. 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:13.680 You know, a post put up at two in the 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:14.680 morning may not. 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:16.880 Be something that you would post, as you said, at 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:21.680 ten am on your way to the boardroom. So absolutely 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.080 that puts incredible risk. And it's also the idea of consent. 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:27.680 You know, you busy posting a whole lot of things 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.080 about your colleagues. They may not be very happy with 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.480 that idea at all. But I think it comes back 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.199 to that first thing I was talking about. This is 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.840 a work event, so the kind of rules for proper 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.200 behavior at work still matter. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.319 I was having a conversation with a colleague the other 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.640 day about this, and it feels like not only Christmas 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.520 parties have kind of been diluted over the years, but 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.400 I remember as a child going to my dads he 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.840 worked at an insurance firm in Aussie and I remember 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.320 those family fun days you know, like a big Christmas 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:03.560 barbecue for all of the family and then he would 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:07.120 obviously have his separate boozy work event or something. It 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:11.000 seems like companies are really steering away from those big 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.680 events and family involvement kind of things. 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:15.480 And I've spoke to a few people. 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.360 Around the office being like, oh, yeah, my dad's work 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.679 had that, all my mum's worked, did this and did that? 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:20.640 Do you reckon? 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:22.960 It's just like a cost of living thing. Just you know, 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:24.920 that's the first thing to cut, that's the first thing 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:25.280 to go. 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.200 Yes, well, you know there's been a cost of living 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.000 you know, sort of crisis at the household level, but 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.440 also organizations really have looked at how to be fiscally 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:39.320 responsible and so putting on big events, you know, it 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:40.880 certainly costs. 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.280 And doing these things that are family freely. 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.640 You may not be spending a whole lot, perhaps on alcohol, 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.520 but you will be spending on other things to make 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.520 people feel welcome, to cater for a variety of dietary 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.640 and personal food, likes to have perhaps activities that keep 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.439 kids happy, because kids may turn up but they actually 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:00.839 expect me in tained as well. 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.559 It costs a lot to get Santa down here from 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:04.240 the North Pole. 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.480 Absolutely, and you know sometimes kids, they get a bit 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.120 bored at your parents' work after a while unless the 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.240 fun is sort of put on. I think though, you know, 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.840 we don't have a really good understanding of the real 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.800 diversity of ways that organizations, particularly in that small mediu 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:25.959 ment price sector, do actually celebrate Christmas, you know, as 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.360 a workplace at the end of the year in this country. 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.840 So it'd be great to get more stories coming through, 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:36.000 not just perhaps the very lavish, large corporate events, because 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.080 up and down the country, You're right, people are doing 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.960 all sorts of innovative things to sort of celebrate with 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:43.920 their colleagues. Because we've got to remember, all year we 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.920 develop good relationships with our colleagues, so it's nice to 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.840 sort of unwine with them and wash everyone well as 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.360 they go off to you know, celebrate somemer together. 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:53.840 Yeah. 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.880 I also have heard the conversation obviously, the cost of 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.680 living crisis is a bit pretty hard this year. Should 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.360 works think about maybe instead of doing the cost per 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.880 had lavish do down by the waterfront, just giving out 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:08.920 some prezzy cards. 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:13.440 Yeah, I'm sure that's something that perhaps some employees would prefer. 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:17.720 A sort of chicken and egg, isn't it though? 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:21.640 With the voucher versus party, I mean, often the spend 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.120 per head for the parties really has come down, So 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.360 the voucher may actually be very modest and you may 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.760 have completely forgotten what you even spent it on by 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:32.040 a month later. 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.640 However, that chance to bring people together. 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.679 So there was actually quite a rare academic study done 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.959 on Christmas parties in Germany that looked at three hundred 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:46.000 and fifty nine employees across sectors, and they did actually 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.440 find that the Christmas party can serve some good purpose 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:52.559 in terms of uniting people, creating that sense of team morale, 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:58.880 happiness in the workplace, as long as alcohol was controlled. 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.520 Back to alcohol, Alcohol is the thing that created most 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:04.040 dissatisfaction at parties. 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:05.440 But you're right. 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.760 I mean an organization may say there is no party 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.720 this year. Here's a voucher, but I think some employees 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:15.280 may be disappointed about how little that voucher may actually 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.360 be and how quickly it's forgotten. 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:22.640 Yeah, we might be surprised what the cost per head is. Yeah, 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.640 in terms of I mean it's a huge uphill battle 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.839 since COVID four hospitality venues, I bet that when this 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.680 time of year comes around, it's a huge hit in 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:34.480 the arm for them. 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:40.280 Pay Yeah, that November December Christmas party spend is important. 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:41.640 It matters. 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.040 I think though that if anyone's good at sort of 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.160 innovative practice, it certainly is the hospitality sector. 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.480 In New Zealand. So they've had to pivot a bit. 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:51.640 You know, there may be less of the three hundred 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.880 people type parties. There may be those smaller sort of 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.920 smaller group parties, and a lot of organizations are perhaps 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.400 doing that as well, because the group that we don't 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.600 talk about is essential workers and frontline workers. Those you know, 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.600 people still need to be driving the buses in the 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:09.200 hospital wards. 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:10.760 So finding ways to celebrate that. 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.640 And then the hospitality as a sector is very good 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.720 at putting things on at different times of the day 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.040 as well, so there may be more of that kind 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.760 of daytime, smaller group type in a bitive thing. 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:23.960 And the hospitality sector certainly has. 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:28.040 Responded very well to trends such as you know, the 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.520 complete explosion of the zero alcohol movement, etc. 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:36.000 What do you reckon the future is for work Christmas parties. 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:38.120 It's not going to be something like on Love actually 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:39.280 or Wolf of Wall Street. 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:44.680 Yeah, absolutely not. I think some of I think there'll 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.000 be continuation of the many of the good practices that 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.000 organizations have been using in terms of making sure that 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:54.079 they're well planned and planned with an eye to inclusion, 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.480 like what would most people enjoy rather than just the 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:00.640 few people that like the six hour sort of marathons. Also, 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.680 they will be very well communicated, so people will turn 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:09.440 up knowing what to expect, and including perhaps younger and 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.520 new workers who've maybe never been to your Christmas party. 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:18.440 As well, we'll see more innovation, we'll see smaller We'll 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.120 see both a mix of at work things but also 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:27.800 offsite things, etc. Perhaps more activities, and perhaps a more 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.960 clear tie in with the organizational brand and awesome values. 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.680 So saying, our organization stands for this all year, but 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.480 by the way, the only way we recognize Christmas is 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.560 to go to a bar. It sometimes can be a 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.040 bit disjointed in terms of actually celebrating us as an 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.600 organization and all the people who work to make it great. 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.120 Thanks for joining us, Candae. 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.280 Lovely and Merry Christmas, Chelsea. 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:52.760 Merry Christmas. 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.480 That said, for this episode of the Front Page, you 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.400 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.760 at enzdherld dot co dot nz. 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.640 The Front Page is produced. 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.840 By Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also our editor. 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:12.800 I'm Chelsea Daniels. 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.440 Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.160 get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:21.400 behind the headlines.