1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: Kiota. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. As 3 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: Auckland's population continues to grow, so too are the city's schools, 4 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: and many of them are running out of space. Analysis 5 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: by the Herald has found that while the school aged 6 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 1: population has only risen by eighteen percent since the year 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: two thousand, at least one school has had its role 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: jump by one hundred and forty nine percent. With space 9 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: running out, it's also prompting tough questions for schools and 10 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: what they do with out of zone enrollments. Today on 11 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: the Front Page ends at Herald, reporter Ben Lay joins 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: us to digest the data he's seen about the shortage 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: of space in our schools. Ben, how much growth have 14 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: we seen in some of our biggest schools? 15 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, hi, Chelse, So some of the biggest schools in 16 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: Auckland are reporting incredible growth. Really, there's some like Western 17 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 2: Springs College that has grown two hundred percent and a 18 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: story we had in the Herald recently focused on Mount 19 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 2: Albert Grammar and it's had one hundred and forty nine 20 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 2: percent growth. Although it should be mentioned that with Western 21 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: Springs College, they did get new facilities built and that 22 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: was part of the reason why they expanded. And with 23 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 2: Mount Albert Grammer it did turn co educational, welcomed a 24 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: lot of girls in in the during the early two thousands, 25 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: I think, so that's partly why there's been growth. But 26 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: across the city there's also been quite significant growth. So 27 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: there's about seventy eight thousand more students in twenty twenty 28 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: four than there was in the year two thousand and 29 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: across the city we've got about three hundred thousand pupils. 30 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: What do we put that down to. I guess you've 31 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,919 Speaker 1: spoken to principals and teachers alike. What are they saying. 32 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely immigration, So in particular in the past year 33 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 2: we had record immigrations, so a big jump happened in 34 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 2: the last year. And then a lot of schools, because 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 2: particularly public schools, have to accept students that are within 36 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 2: their zone, So some schools cover areas where there's been 37 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: a lot more housing development, and when that happens inside 38 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: your zone, you can see a big spike in the 39 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: number of students coming to your school. 40 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: Is there a big difference between how many enrollments are 41 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: happening at public schools versus integrated and private schools. 42 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: There has been an increase in people choosing private schools, 43 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 2: but it should be mentioned that the vast majority of 44 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 2: students in Auckland go to public schools. So we've got 45 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: about two hundred and forty nine thousand students enrolled in 46 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: public schools, about thirty one thousand in Catholic and integrated schools, 47 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 2: and about twenty thousand in private schools. But we have 48 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: seen an increase in private school so there's been about 49 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: an eighty four percent growth in private schools and around 50 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 2: thirty percent growth in students enrolling in public schools. 51 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 3: Some areas that traditionally haven't been taught in, like our 52 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 3: library and our cafe, have now got classes in them. 53 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 3: Basically every space in the school's got students in it 54 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: all the time. We've got more teachers than we've got 55 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 3: car parks already and it's going to increase next year 56 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 3: as well. And the other impact is on the infrastructure 57 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 3: of the building itself. So when you've got a building 58 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 3: that's designed to have a capacity of tiep hundred students 59 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 3: and you've got fourteen hundred students in there, the water 60 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 3: pressure drops because of the amount of flushing that goes on. 61 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: For example, looking at Mount Albert Grammar as an example, 62 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned that before that was the fifteenth biggest school 63 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: in Auckland in two thousand and by twenty eleven it 64 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: was its second biggest. What sort of impact does this 65 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: massive growth have on the school's facilities. 66 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: I believe it would affect pretty much every aspect of 67 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: the school really, So obviously they will be straining to 68 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: find enough classrooms to teach students, then you know, sports 69 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: facilities and things like that. But one of the things 70 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: that they emphasized is actually the sort of leadership of 71 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: that because they're going into territory that hardly any if 72 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 2: any other schools really across the country are going into. 73 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: So they're built like normal schools, but they've got sort 74 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: of a larger leadership and management challenge than other schools. 75 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: So you know, for instance, they went to Brisbane recently 76 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: in Australia to see how they were managing their own 77 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 2: large roles and increases in students, and that's something that 78 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 2: the schools organize themselves. So they're hoping that they'll get 79 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 2: more support in that type of area as well. 80 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: We might think the solution to this is just to 81 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: start building new schools. But I read an interesting part 82 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: of your story on the cost factor of building a 83 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: new school over expanding an existing one. What have you heard? 84 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, Patrick Drum, the headmaster of Mount Albert Grammer, mentioned 85 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 2: that his school did get new classrooms in May. So 86 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 2: that was a thirty million dollar facility with twenty two 87 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 2: classrooms and it can accommodate six hundred students now at 88 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 2: a cost of twenty two million. He compared that to 89 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: if you had to build a new school from scratch, 90 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: where you'd have to build all the other facilities needed 91 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 2: for six hundred students, not just the classrooms, and he 92 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 2: sort of did just the back of the envelope estimate 93 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 2: that that would be a quarter of a billion dollars. 94 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: And that means that if you're a government or looking 95 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 2: about how you help address this issue of rising student numbers, 96 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 2: what do you do? Do you add more classrooms to 97 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 2: existing schools or do you build new schools, which, particularly 98 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: in Inner Auckland, where there's not much space for a 99 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 2: new school, it can be very expensive operations. So Patrick 100 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: is expecting that existing schools will likely keep getting bigger 101 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: and bigger, just from the economics of the situation. 102 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it just means we'll just keep consolidating a 103 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: lot of our students to existing schools rather than spreading 104 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: things out I suppose. And the space factor as well. 105 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 2: Ben, You try buying a new house in the inner 106 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: Auckland and then think about how much bigger you need 107 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 2: for a school ground. So it would be a challenge 108 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 2: to start building new schools in the inner city. 109 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: Ben. This issue with ballooning roles also means that schools 110 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: aren't accepting as many out of zone students anymore. Firstly, 111 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: what do you know about school zones? The schools required 112 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: to accept any student who lives in their zone or 113 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: I guess I mean it seems archaic. 114 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bit of an Auckland sort of tradition, 115 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,119 Speaker 2: isn't It's this mass flight of students across the city 116 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 2: on public transport every morning, coming from sort of all 117 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: corners to go to the schools that their parents or 118 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,799 Speaker 2: the students want to go to. But that is coming 119 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 2: under threat. Schools, particularly schools that are better known, often 120 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: in the inner city or the north Shore, just having 121 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: trouble meeting the roles of students within their zone. Typically 122 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: it works by they all accept students who already have 123 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 2: another sibling in that school first, or maybe a parent 124 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: went to that school. They work through a list of priorities, 125 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 2: and then once they get through the priorities, they have 126 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 2: an open ballot for anyone who wants to try and apply. 127 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: In a lot of cases this year, they're just on 128 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: the priority list, they're not even getting to the open ballot. 129 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: And in the case of Mount Alber Grammar, they're under 130 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: such strain with student numbers that they're not expecting to 131 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 2: open up to out of his own students next year. 132 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,119 Speaker 1: So which schools have the biggest waiting lists for twenty 133 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: twenty five? 134 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: So we did a survey of a handful of schools, 135 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 2: So we don't know which schools exactly have the biggest 136 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 2: waiting lists, but Mount Albert Grammar, among the schools we 137 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 2: did talk to, has the biggest, with six hundred and 138 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: forty five students on its waiting list at the time 139 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: we spoke to them. Auckland Grammar had close to five hundred, 140 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: Westlake Boys High School had four hundred and forty Westlake 141 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: Girls two twenty nine, and a bunch of other schools 142 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: had big waiting lists as well. 143 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: So, like you said, some are looking at base not 144 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: letting any out of zone enrollments in for at least 145 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: until twenty twenty six, Is that right. 146 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, Actually, so they have gone through the process of 147 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: accepting students for twenty twenty five. So Mount Albert Gramma 148 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: did take out of zone students for twenty twenty five, 149 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: but it's looking ahead for the students that want to 150 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 2: come in in twenty twenty six that they're unlikely to 151 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 2: take out of z own students. Other schools haven't said 152 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 2: exactly what they're going to do by twenty twenty six, 153 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: but we just know that they're under pressure, and in 154 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: this case, like Auckland Grammar was saying, they were still 155 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: just at the very beginning of their priority lists when 156 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 2: they had to sort of shut off the number of 157 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,599 Speaker 2: students that they'd accepted by the time we spoke to them. 158 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 4: By the end of this year, the Ministry expects to 159 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 4: add sixty one new enrollment schemes to manage overcrowding and 160 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 4: ensure students can attend schools in the area. It takes 161 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 4: the total to one thousand, two hundred and eighty two 162 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 4: schemes affecting slightly more than half the schools in the country. 163 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 3: Ideally, it is a sort of school that you feel 164 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: would be a good set to your kids, to your child, 165 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 3: it would be really good if they could go to 166 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 3: that school, and at the moment you don't necessarily have 167 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 3: that option. 168 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: What sort of impact is this having on families trying 169 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: to get into these schools. 170 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, I spoke to a number of mothers who were 171 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 2: they had become passionate about this issue. This is what 172 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: they were thinking about, like constantly, even struggling to sleep sometimes, 173 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: they were saying, So they're examining, they're like looking into 174 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: what they can do to get their kids into schools 175 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 2: right across the city, and sometimes they're going in the 176 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: ballot of multiple schools and just hoping. So some of 177 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 2: them are having to really rethink what they're doing. You know, 178 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: they're really having to think, we do I actually have 179 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: to move into the zone. And some cases, you know, 180 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: not only is moving in the zone expensive and not 181 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 2: everyone can do that, but even when it's possible, some 182 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 2: people live in other parts of the city for reasons, 183 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 2: you know, they're close to family that can help out 184 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: with child care issues like that. So for those mums 185 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: who do want to get into these schools, it's a 186 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: really big. 187 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: Issue for them. I remember when I was applying for 188 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: high school, and I don't want to say what year was, Ben, 189 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: but I remember that the school nearest to me was 190 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: a Catholic school, and there was a chance that I 191 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: wasn't going to get in, and it seemed like the 192 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: end of the world at that point. I remember my 193 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: father having to write a letter saying that his side 194 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: of the family was Catholic and all this stuff. Do 195 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: you have a similar experience. 196 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: I wasn't a pagan like you, I guess no. Actually, 197 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: I was in a small town, so it was not 198 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: so hard to go into a Catholic school. Yeah, but yeah, 199 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 2: if you could pay the fee, they went under the 200 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 2: role pressure in my little town growing up, Ben. 201 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: Isn't there an argument to be made that all schools 202 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: should just be of the same quality and parents shouldn't 203 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: feel obliged to move to a different suburb just to 204 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: get their kid into one particular school. 205 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: Certainly, probably anyone you talk to would believe that should 206 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 2: be the case. Right Anyone living across the city, you 207 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 2: would hope would have the confidence in their local school 208 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 2: to enroll in their school. Why that doesn't happen is 209 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: something that would be debated. So in some cases, parents 210 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 2: may just really love another school on the other side 211 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 2: of the city, so they're doing it because they went 212 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: there or that's what they want for their child, right 213 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 2: It might not be a reflection on the school in 214 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 2: their zone. In other cases, some schools may not perform 215 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 2: as well as perhaps some of the better known schools. 216 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 2: Other reasons kids might go to some of the better 217 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: known schools is they might think that they're going to 218 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 2: have different types of contacts that they can keep through 219 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: their lives as adults. So there's a whole bunch of 220 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 2: things going in not necessarily all reflecting quality, but getting 221 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: all schools up to an equally high standard would obviously 222 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 2: alleviate this issue. Thanks for joining us, Ben. 223 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You 224 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 225 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: at enzed Herald dot co dot nz. The Front Page 226 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: is produced by Ethan Siles with sound engineer Patty Fox. 227 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio 228 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts and tune in tomorrow 229 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: for another look behind the headlines.