1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southby's International realty, the ones 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 1: with worldwide connections that perform not a promise that all 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: this evening. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: Mark Sainsbury, Broadcaster and Nick Leggett Infrastructure, New Zealand High Lads. Hello, 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: Oh Sainso's done it again, Nick So, sains are you back? 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 3: Yeah? 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 2: I am Sainso So before I've been warned about you, 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 2: they said to me. I hear the while you've been 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 2: away on maternity leave. Sainzo has been bloody while muting 10 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: himself with his cheeks again and I said he was 11 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: doing that last year. And then we lose you like 12 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 2: before it's evening. What's going on? 13 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 4: Just look, I'm just you just you threatened me with 14 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 4: your eloquence and everything. That's sort of. 15 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: Evidently so does Ryan because it was happening when I 16 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: was up here. I just think you're you're a boomer 17 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: king on the phone, aren't you. That's that's right. 18 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 3: Nick. 19 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 2: Listen, how do you feel about the prime us buying 20 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 2: the prime minister's cars after they're no longer prime ministers. 21 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 3: I've got absolutely no problem with it. Whatever. These are 22 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 3: people that have served New Zealand and the top office 23 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 3: and irrespective of that service and the work they put 24 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 3: in as prime minister. I think the truth is that 25 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,199 Speaker 3: former prime ministers are actually called upon to do quite 26 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 3: a lot of free stuff. And I know because I'm 27 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 3: someone that's asked some of them to do, you know, 28 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 3: come and speak at events and have lunches with people 29 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: and talk about their experiences, and they say yes, and 30 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 3: they don't get paid. So I think that you know, 31 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 3: contributing to their vehicle, you know, servicing a vehicle for 32 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 3: them buying a vehicle, I think are pretty small. It's 33 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 3: not a massive contribution to people who have contributed very 34 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 3: significantly to the country and continue to do so. I mean, 35 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 3: I think we're very well served by former prime ministers 36 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 3: of all stripes, and I think that most Kiwis would say, yep, 37 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 3: these are people that have served, but they also that 38 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 3: there's some wisdom amongst this lot and we continue to 39 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 3: benefit from it as a country. So I think it's 40 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 3: mean spirited if we don't honor the legislation that allows 41 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 3: them these vehicles. 42 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 4: Saying yeah, well, it's interesting you look at the Remuneration Authority, 43 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 4: which sort of controls all that sort of basically said 44 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 4: you know that these were provided because like with the 45 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 4: chauffeur driven cars, if you are in the Crown cars, 46 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 4: if you're doing business in relation to you being in 47 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 4: former prime minister, like you know, if Nick was, you know, 48 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 4: shoehorned them into coming along to sort of something. But 49 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 4: I also noticed that the self drive cars Jim Bolger's 50 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 4: eighty nine is he still driving? 51 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 2: What's a good point? Does missus Bulger get permission? 52 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I think Jim made a huge 53 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 4: contribution to this country, quite frankly, but you sort of 54 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 4: wonder why on earth would you provide a car to 55 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 4: someone who probably doesn't drive well? 56 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: This is a fair point. Also, Nick, have you looked 57 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: at some of these cars because they're ugly? Like the 58 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 2: only one, the only person. 59 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 3: Was much happier to critique that the choice of vehicle, 60 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 3: whether or not the vehicle's provided here that I agree. 61 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I mean the only one with class is 62 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: Helen because she went for the MG, which is a 63 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: tyst little vehicle. But the other ones are hidious, aren't they? 64 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 3: Yeah? I don't think the hund ikhanas a beauties. I 65 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: quite like Jim Bolger's Outlander because that's what my family's got, 66 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 3: But look, the point is these are people that have 67 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 3: served the country. They continue to serve the country. I 68 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 3: think it's it's it's mean and nit picky to go 69 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: after them on pretty small costs when they're continuing to contribute. 70 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: Okay, saying though, how do you feel about funding increasing 71 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 2: the funding for reality TV shows that are made in 72 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: New Zealand and the risk being that we do end 73 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: up funding F Boy Island? 74 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, well, should we also be funding the news? 75 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 3: Have you got? 76 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 4: I mean it's interesting because that whole scheme was set 77 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 4: up to try and preserve the industry and develop the 78 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 4: skills and everything like that. I see one of the 79 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 4: criteria was that it's some it's of cultural benefit to 80 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 4: New Zealand. Now F Boy Ireland or other ones, I 81 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 4: do not know how they're going to be contributing to 82 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 4: the cultural benefit of this country. Yeah, it's it's I 83 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 4: can understand the fund in terms of supporting production, but 84 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 4: is this saying no production can survive anymore? Anything we 85 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 4: make in this country is going to have to be 86 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 4: is going to have to be heavily subsidized. 87 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 2: I mean, I can sort of understand funding the news 88 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,239 Speaker 2: because there is some democratic value in having news served 89 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: up to you, But is there any value in having 90 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 2: maths New Zealand served up to you? 91 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 3: Yeah? I don't think we should make a sort of 92 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 3: a value judgment based on whether or not it's within 93 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 3: our personal taste. I think Mark's point about supporting local 94 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 3: production is a good one. I mean, culture comes in 95 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 3: all forms, and I think being. 96 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 2: A Slovnik I am and I can't know. 97 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 3: I know, so I don't. I don't watch. I don't 98 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: want that stuff. I do know there are people close 99 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: to me who do. But I just I think that 100 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 3: it comes in all forms, right, and even though it's 101 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 3: not you know, your individual choice to watch it. I 102 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 3: don't think we can be snooty about the choices people make. 103 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 3: So I'm actually I'm in favor of like supporting local content. 104 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 3: And if it means if it's something that's a bit 105 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 3: low brow, well so be it a bit low brow. 106 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: He's totally low brow. All right, We'll take a break. 107 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 2: Come back to you guys in the Tech Quarter two. 108 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary 109 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: results with unparallel reach. 110 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 2: Right back with the Huddle, Mark Sainsbury, Nick leg It's sayings, 111 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: So what do you make of the fact that this 112 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: race based stuff is still happening under national. 113 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean you look at the Cabinet director 114 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 4: and you can see there's gonna be some issues there. 115 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 4: But by the same token, it's this whole thing over 116 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 4: need versus race, you know, and if you're going to 117 00:05:58,279 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 4: judge things on need, if they look at the stat 118 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 4: since says that this particular group you know, are more 119 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 4: prone to a more prone or have a higher accident rate. 120 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 4: You know, this is not conferring some special status or 121 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 4: no monetary benefit. It's saying if we think it's a problem, 122 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 4: that's trying and solve it. I run think of Men's 123 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 4: Health Week and one of the things with that is 124 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 4: that the stats for PACIFICA and Mari men are just 125 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 4: appalling half of them will not get the pension. So 126 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 4: is it wrong then to focus on those groups if 127 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 4: you see there's a specific need. 128 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 3: I think you can. 129 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 4: Get caught up sometimes. I think in all of this 130 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 4: and I think if the outcome is going to be good, 131 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 4: then what the hell? 132 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? The problem here, really, Nick, is the fact that 133 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: there was a directive that went out to public servants 134 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: to stop doing this stuff. The nets and Act and 135 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: New Zealand Verst were elected on the understanding by a 136 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: lot of voters that they would stop doing the stuff. 137 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 2: To have a national minister just totally defy that and 138 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 2: say he's going to keep doing it, there's your problem, right, 139 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 2: it's voters' expectations, isn't it. 140 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 3: Well. I think Mark has hit it on the head. 141 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 3: And you could argue here that you've got groups that 142 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 3: are disproportionately impacted by workplace accidents because of the sort 143 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 3: of work that they do. So you've got Mardi and 144 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 3: Pacifica communities who have more accidents than you know, their 145 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 3: proportion of the workforce. That's not to target them to 146 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 3: reduce the harm that they are receiving disproportionately. Is not 147 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 3: race based. That's need based. No, it's not because it 148 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 3: is a need that No. No, it's not disproportionately affective. 149 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: It literally is. If you are identifying people based on race, 150 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: that is race based. 151 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 3: It is it is need based. It is need based 152 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 3: here because they're disproportionately negatively impacted. Yes, that's that's a needy. 153 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: Okay, We're just going to go around in circles on 154 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: this one. But I would argue that everybody who gets 155 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: injured is it need of being of being saved from 156 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 2: that injury. When you start splitting it down gender lines, 157 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: that's gender based. When you start splitting it down racial lines, 158 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: it's race based. 159 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 3: Right, So I think I think, I think it's a 160 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 3: It is a fair point. How do you actually target 161 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 3: how do you go after the group that the people 162 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 3: that are going to be impacted by injury are hurting 163 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 3: themselves and then you do sometimes have to target. Me 164 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 3: put it different. 165 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 2: Let me put it to your what proportion of the 166 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: workers in the manufacturing sector are Maori and Pacifica? 167 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 3: I think it was for it was eleven percent eighteen 168 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 3: percent targeting. 169 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 2: That was the target that they were aiming for, right, 170 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 2: But what proportion of them actually are those workers? Do 171 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 2: you know what? I mean? 172 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 3: That's what That's what That's what my understanding and reading 173 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 3: that was that that those were the figures. But then 174 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 3: you've got a number that isn't that. 175 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: So then if you have eighteen percent of your workers 176 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 2: who are injured working in that sector being Marii and 177 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 2: eleven percent being Pacifica, if you just managed to save 178 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 2: those those injuries five hundred. Then it should split down 179 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: those lines, shouldn't it if you just do it? 180 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 3: Of course, that's right, Yeah, that's right. 181 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 2: You don't need to set this target. It should just 182 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 2: naturally happen. 183 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 3: Well, I don't think that they're mutually exclusive. I think 184 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 3: you say, we want to stop people getting hurt in 185 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 3: the workplace, right, and if we can go after groups 186 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 3: that are disproportionately getting hurt in the workplace to reduce 187 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 3: the total number, why wouldn't we do that. But you're right, 188 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 3: we should be doing it in general terms as well. 189 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 3: It's not all of one or none of the other. 190 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 3: We want. What we want to do is stop people 191 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 3: getting hurt. So I think Scott Simpson has been responsible 192 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 3: as a minister to back this. It is we want 193 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 3: to go where need is. We want to target people 194 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 3: and groups who we know are getting hurt at greater rates. 195 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 3: I don't think I can't imagine anybody thinking that's a 196 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 3: bad idea. We've got to we've got to step back 197 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 3: and I think just think about one of the most 198 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 3: effective ways to reduce heart and if this isn't an 199 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 3: effective way, let's do something else. But until it's you know, 200 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 3: till it's shan that isn't then let's. 201 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: Keep keeping I've letting it go for so long. You 202 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 2: want to do you want to just chip in with 203 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: something before we end this nook. 204 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 4: Well, I suppose it's all the fusty other the other week 205 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 4: about sort of you know, pregnant persons and actually not 206 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 4: using the word woman, and you look at this and 207 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 4: think this is just about as mad. I mean, if 208 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 4: there is a problem and there is a couple of cohorts, 209 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 4: a couple of groups that need attention, then what's what's 210 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 4: so wrong with doing it? We're just sort of, oh, 211 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 4: we don't mention the race work. 212 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: Interesting, Okay, guys, thank you that appreciate it. Mark Sainsbury 213 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 2: Broadcaster and Nick Leggett Infrastructure, New Zealand. 214 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 215 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 216 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.