1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Very so, Senior Political correspondence with US Heybarry. 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 2: Good afternoon, Heather. 3 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: What's the most likely reaction from Facebook's parent company Meta 4 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: to this fair digital news bargaining? 5 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 2: Bill Well, I would imagine it would be the same 6 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 2: as Meta has reacted in a number of other countries, 7 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: in particularly Canada. They throw their toys out of the cot, 8 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 2: they don't play ball, and you know you're no further ahead. 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: This is the plan that Melissa Lee apparently had been 10 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 2: working on and it doesn't come as anything. 11 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: This is Willie Jackson's plan. 12 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 2: Well, you know, this is the one that Melissa Lee 13 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: got tongue tied about. I think looking at what was 14 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: what was the way through for media companies and what 15 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: is a very difficult situation. But the most that this 16 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: will drag in would be about thirty million dollars, which 17 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: is pittance when you consider what the revenues are of 18 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: media companies, even though they are going through very tough times. 19 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 2: The Minister will decide in the amended version which digital 20 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 2: platforms are captured by the Bill and Paul Goldsmith, and 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: I know you're going to be talking to him. He says, 22 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 2: that'll allow them to manage unintended consequences. What they are, 23 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure, but he says they'll also ensure 24 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: an appropriate independent regulator is appointed to act as the 25 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 2: bill's authority. Now and you mentioned it, the government will 26 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 2: remove Saturday or Sunday morning advertising and public holidays from television, 27 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: which is a good I think a good move. It 28 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: will make only around six million dollars a year, so 29 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 2: again not a lot of money, but Goldsmith says the 30 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: initiative will need labor support for it to be successful 31 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 2: and acknowledges it's not going to be the silver bullet 32 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: that many would like. 33 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 3: Government's not able to solve all the problems of the 34 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: many businesses operating. Some businesses in the media landscape and 35 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 3: New Zealand are doing very well and some have been struggling. 36 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 3: It's been compounded by the fact we're in a tough 37 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 3: economic spot and so advertising revenue has been low in 38 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 3: that case as well. But all we can do is 39 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 3: make some changes that I think will help. How do 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 3: we encourage conversations to be had between very large multinational 41 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 3: streaming companies and local media producers and so you know, 42 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 3: we think m balance this is a good way to go. 43 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: Well, we'll see about that. But you know, conversations have 44 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: already been held. For example, zed Me, the organization that 45 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 2: owns news talk ZB in the Herald, they've already talked 46 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: to Google. 47 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 4: They already have a deal. 48 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 2: They have a deal, they've been paid. I believe that 49 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: stuff might be in negotiations at the moment, but would 50 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: seem that Google is a much easier organization to deal 51 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 2: with than Meta. If you listen to Act, they say 52 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: beg to differ. They've invoked that clause. They say the 53 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 2: bills are stopped a stop. It's one of those things 54 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: you do when you don't know what else to do, 55 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 2: David Seymour said, and he said to him, it always 56 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: appeared like an attempt to force one group of businesses 57 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: to subsidize another. And if you listen to the tax bars, 58 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: you know, I think they make a fair point. If 59 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: the mainstream media can't stand on its own two feet, 60 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: it's because they're out of touch with New Zealanders. Study 61 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: after study shows that people don't trust us anymore. And 62 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: the answer is to do The answer isn't to start 63 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: bailing out, which is what the suggestion is behind this bill. 64 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: And I think that's a fair claim that you've got 65 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: to change with the times. And I guess it's unfortunate 66 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 2: that this comes in the very week that news Hub 67 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: is closing up its operation. It's probably, well, yeah, maybe, 68 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: but you know, it's the timing is a bit unfortunate. 69 00:03:58,840 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 3: I suppose. 70 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: Hilarious is it that Chappy to Kenney, who runs kayeinga order, 71 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: goes out and tells the staff off for leaking in 72 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: a video which then gets leaked. 73 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right, and then tells them they're going 74 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 2: to be fired. It's incredible. They're asking staff to apply 75 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: for redundancy, and certainly there's a lot of tension there. 76 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: They're looking at more than four hundred jobs. There's a 77 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: new redundancy process that was announced last week. Now Tokarne 78 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: Chappy Note has of course invited applications for redundancy. Minutes 79 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: after urging disgruntled staff to look for a job elsewhere 80 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: if they don't like the way the organization's being run, 81 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: he said, they may have their opinions, but if it's 82 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 2: not the right agency for you, he said, then essentially 83 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: get lost. Now you haven't heard this fellow on air 84 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: on this program. I think for several years now. I 85 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: remember one of the last interviews you had with him, 86 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 2: but the staff certainly heard Champy condemn those who have 87 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: been leaking from the organization can including those who leaked 88 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: the video of him. 89 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 4: The leaking of information and debating the change proposal publicly 90 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 4: did not advantage anyone. What that did do is put 91 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 4: Kaimah and the wider organization under pressure, and it disrespected 92 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 4: every other member of staff who showed up to give 93 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 4: their best even when facing an uncertain future themselves. The 94 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 4: leaking of information exposed to poor culture, which is not 95 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 4: reflective of who we are as an organization, but most 96 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 4: significantly made it harder for faring communities to believe will 97 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 4: do the right thing when working with their tim of 98 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 4: the king. 99 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 2: Now there's an old cliche government here, There no clue. 100 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 2: Let's review now as we know that's been done many 101 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 2: times with the rung of Dummriki and it's still the same. 102 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, Barry, appreciate it. Barri's overseeing political corresponders. 103 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to 104 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: News Talks it B from four pm weekdays, or follow 105 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.