Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2: Yesperon. Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage
Speaker 2: and thanks for your feedback on politics. By the way,
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Speaker 2: as we can after the show has finished. By the way,
Speaker 2: just looking forward to the final hour of the show
Speaker 2: from father o'clock, it will be our final session with
Speaker 2: the folk from Harbor Asset Management talking about the changes
Speaker 2: that are being made to Key we Saver that they
Speaker 2: can invest more in private asset investments, which sounds sort
Speaker 2: of like sounds harmless enough, doesn't it. But we're gonna
Speaker 2: have a chat with Shane Sley about that after five
Speaker 2: o'clock and be taking your course. But right now we'd
Speaker 2: love your calls. This is the Health Hub and we're
Speaker 2: talking about sleep and my guest is what is a
Speaker 2: regular guest on our show. He's a director of Sleep
Speaker 2: Well Clinic, and it's Alex bartle Gaday. Alex.
Speaker 3: How are you going?
Speaker 4: Good e ten? Good to see again? How are you
Speaker 4: sleeping these days, we're not so good in the hot weather.
Speaker 4: That does make it more difficult, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Do you actually I've said this to you before, of course,
Speaker 2: that the pressure. Do you ever lie there struggling to
Speaker 2: get to sleep and think, oh gosh, I'm the sleep doctor.
Speaker 2: I can't get to sleep. Everyone else might be. It
Speaker 2: must be started.
Speaker 4: It has happened, and I know sort of what to do.
Speaker 4: I don't always do it, but I know, I mean,
Speaker 4: I know what I should be doing. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 4: actually not a few nights ago, I was getting into
Speaker 4: a bit of a situation. It was getting to one
Speaker 4: o'clock in the morning, and I sell and he was
Speaker 4: taking in that tingly bit. You know, I think I
Speaker 4: really need to go to sleep, and fortunately I fell
Speaker 4: asleep very quickly, now, you know, getting up fifteen minutes
Speaker 4: out of bed, reset back into bed. It's really works
Speaker 4: very well for me. If I've got something on my mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about the heat. How are you coping with
Speaker 2: the heat?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Right, I mean keeping windows open, barring your fan out
Speaker 4: of the hot or hot air side of the house,
Speaker 4: so you draw air in from the cool side of
Speaker 4: the house.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because sometimes that's an idea for I mean, actually
Speaker 2: we just have the fan on us circular, which gives
Speaker 2: a sense, and luckily we've got one. It's actually quite
Speaker 2: quiet and it's got about twenty eight speeds.
Speaker 4: A bit of white noise. Of course, this doesn't matter.
Speaker 4: That's possibly a bit helpful as.
Speaker 2: Well, as long as it doesn't go clunk clunk, clunk,
Speaker 2: cluk cluk. I think that's the problem with ceiling fans.
Speaker 2: Actually they doesn't take long before they start rattling away,
Speaker 2: isn't it true? So yeah, that's right. The thing with
Speaker 2: a fan to keep your house cool is actually not
Speaker 2: too it's actually when ours get used to get really hot.
Speaker 2: In the days before we renovated and got it properly insulated,
Speaker 2: I used to point a fan out the window of
Speaker 2: the hot room so it would suck air and from
Speaker 2: the cool side of the house. That's exactly right, which
Speaker 2: doesn't feel, you know, lostical.
Speaker 4: But if you think about it, it makes sense.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 4: The other thing, the main thing is if it's a
Speaker 4: hot day like this, close your jolly curtains in your
Speaker 4: bedroom at sort of this time of afternoon so that
Speaker 4: the bedroom doesn't heat up too much. Now, so closing
Speaker 4: the curtains is a really good move.
Speaker 2: At what temperature? What are the temperatures that are hard
Speaker 2: to sleep at? And what temperature should you because some
Speaker 2: people will be lucky enough they've got a conditioning. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and you wouldn't want to overdo that either.
Speaker 4: The word is sixteen to eighteen degrees. Maybe up to
Speaker 4: twenty degrees is okay. Once you started getting excuse me
Speaker 4: above for twenty three twenty four, it starts to become
Speaker 4: And of course if you're in America often they have
Speaker 4: their motilions and what have you, and the hotels at
Speaker 4: that sort of temperature anyway, so they do keep it
Speaker 4: very warm, too warm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about getting a custom talk because imagine people
Speaker 2: who live in Singapore, remember the days before econditioning, people
Speaker 2: must have got acclimatized to sleeping in warmer temperatures. How
Speaker 2: much do our bodies actually get acclimatized. Because where I'm
Speaker 2: going with this is that I wonder if there's a
Speaker 2: case for actually letting yourself get a little bit of
Speaker 2: climatized because the body can adapt.
Speaker 4: You can absolutely true.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I worked in New Guinea for a while and the
Speaker 4: only air conditioning we had was in the outpatients part
Speaker 4: where I was working and where my billit was only
Speaker 4: had a fan. And I can tell you the people
Speaker 4: who worked actually in the hospital that had air conditioning
Speaker 4: fared much worse than I did. After about two months,
Speaker 4: I got quite used to the heat.
Speaker 2: Two months. So it sounds like a tough two months.
Speaker 4: It does help to climatator. You just sweat more.
Speaker 2: Initially, I think, yeah, we'd like your calls on this,
Speaker 2: if any questions you've got around getting to sleep, and
Speaker 2: of course we've got some particular issues we like to
Speaker 2: chat about, just to give a focus for the conversation
Speaker 2: with Alex Bartell from sleep Well Clinic. But you can
Speaker 2: give us a call anytime from now eight hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty ten eighty. You can text on nine to nine
Speaker 2: to two. Actually, there is something we were discussing before
Speaker 2: the show outs about what you've been doing some work on, right,
Speaker 2: and that is it's something that always sounds like it's
Speaker 2: not to be taken seriously. The first time a caller
Speaker 2: called in with this problem, I was like, oh, this
Speaker 2: sounds a bit weird, but you had been doing a
Speaker 2: bit of work on restless leg syndrome.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it certainly is a huge problem for a lot
Speaker 4: of people, about ten percent of the adult population or
Speaker 4: the population generally, because children get it too. I can
Speaker 4: have this condition. It's largely genetic. It's a brain thing,
Speaker 4: so it's thought to be and there's much more complicated
Speaker 4: than this, but the basis is that it's low brain
Speaker 4: iron that leads to low dopamine levels and that results
Speaker 4: in this funny leg problem.
Speaker 2: Low brain iron, yeah.
Speaker 4: Rather than serumone. Serumone is what you measure when you
Speaker 4: take blood sample. Yeah, you don't take brain iron. But
Speaker 4: then when they've done autopsis on people who have had
Speaker 4: terrible restless syndrome, you find that the iron content in
Speaker 4: the brain is lower than it should be.
Speaker 2: And there's something that they've actually there's a name for
Speaker 2: restless leg syndrome, so it sounds like it's something to
Speaker 2: be taken more seriously, right.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, they call it Willis eck bomb disorder because willis
Speaker 4: in there's a medical thing a circle of Willis after
Speaker 4: the name of a think He was a seventeenth century
Speaker 4: physician who first described and the eck bomb is a
Speaker 4: Danish physician who described it very actually in ninety forty five.
Speaker 4: So they thought, just give it a serious name because
Speaker 4: it does upset a lot of people. People commit suicide
Speaker 4: because of.
Speaker 2: So what wow? So what do I mean? You haven't
Speaker 2: got it? I'm guessing. I'm guessing. So how do you
Speaker 2: understand it feels? For people? From my wife gets it.
Speaker 4: Sometimes when it's mild, it tends to come and go.
Speaker 4: You might have you know, a few days or nights
Speaker 4: with it, and then it comes on in the evening
Speaker 4: or a few stationaries on a flight. Particularly if you
Speaker 4: see someone walking up and down the aisle on a
Speaker 4: flight to Sydney, you know they've goddresses syndrome because they
Speaker 4: can't sit still. They need to move their legs. You know,
Speaker 4: it comes on in the evening.
Speaker 2: Is that a pain? Or restlessly?
Speaker 4: Is exactly that? So it's a trickling, prickling electric sort
Speaker 4: of needles type of thing that moves makes you want
Speaker 4: to move your legs and moving it gets rid of it,
Speaker 4: but of course soon as you stop again, it comes
Speaker 4: back again. So it's a you know, people have to
Speaker 4: just keep on walking around and they can't get rid
Speaker 4: of the jolly thing.
Speaker 2: Does panadol or eurofinel.
Speaker 4: Now, unfortunately, the traditional treatments for it that's been used
Speaker 4: for the last two decades. It's very very effective, initially
Speaker 4: fantastically effective initially is now almost banned because it's creating
Speaker 4: what they call tolerance. In other words, you need more
Speaker 4: and more of it and a thick conditional augmentation, which
Speaker 4: is when you need not only it gets worse, but
Speaker 4: the condition itself gets worse, and so you're creating a problem.
Speaker 4: One of these, well, the dopamine agonists's things like rope
Speaker 4: pin role, promo pixel, those are the two main mons
Speaker 4: or a penrole is probably the most commonly one used
Speaker 4: in New Zealand. It's fantastic. It works like a miracle,
Speaker 4: but then it starts not to work, and it can
Speaker 4: be ten to fifteen years later that it starts to
Speaker 4: develop that then you're stuck with it. You're needing more
Speaker 4: and more of the drug, that the condition is getting
Speaker 4: worse and worse. You've got to try and withdraw from it.
Speaker 4: And it's not easy because it's funny. It's strange that
Speaker 4: that's not funny. Nothing's funny about it.
Speaker 2: But how when we first had our conversations about sleep,
Speaker 2: to me, you know, to the average person, unless you've
Speaker 2: got maybe the odd problem you snore, You've got a
Speaker 2: bit of steamer. But it seems that sleep generally should
Speaker 2: be so natural and easy, and yet as you get
Speaker 2: a little bit older, it's to me actually the psychology,
Speaker 2: because I'm quite aware of when I do different hours,
Speaker 2: the psychology of getting to sleep. I literally it's almost
Speaker 2: a meditative state. I've got to get myself into because
Speaker 2: I'm if I'm ticking over thinking of X, Y and Z.
Speaker 2: I've got to find a way of going how in
Speaker 2: a minute, where's that? And I know when I find it.
Speaker 2: But then I become aware of when I'm in that
Speaker 2: sleep zone and I wake myself up again. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, yes, this is good. I'm getting into
Speaker 2: that space. Don't think about I thought about it again.
Speaker 4: I hear that all the time. I basically, you have
Speaker 4: to allow yourself to go to sleep. You can't make
Speaker 4: yourself go to sleep. So I must go to sleep.
Speaker 4: I'm got a busy day tomorrow. Must go to It
Speaker 4: could just make you worse. You have to calm yourself
Speaker 4: down so that brain doesn't get in the way of
Speaker 4: this automatic process that says head down sleep. You have
Speaker 4: to allow yourself and often that requires confidence. Sleep really
Speaker 4: is a lot about confidence that people who go to
Speaker 4: bed and go to sleep, they don't even think about it.
Speaker 4: You know, when you're a teenager, you probably just put
Speaker 4: your head down and went to sleep.
Speaker 2: Oh and I'm on the couch at seven thirty pm
Speaker 2: at night. I can go to sleep at the drop
Speaker 2: of the half. I've dinner. It's like, you know, just
Speaker 2: fly sort of thing. If only someone could pick me
Speaker 2: up right, I'd be through to nine. So we'd love
Speaker 2: your calls. I wait one hundred and eighty ten eighty
Speaker 2: if there are any issues you've got with sleep and
Speaker 2: we're going to cover a range of things. My guest
Speaker 2: is Alex Bartel, and he as a director of Sleepweld client.
Speaker 2: By the way, where do people how do people get
Speaker 2: in touch with you? Apart from just googling Sleepworld clinic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's probably sleep well clinic dot got on in
Speaker 4: Z eight hundred two two seventy five three three.
Speaker 2: So what is the most common thing that people generally
Speaker 2: see you for?
Speaker 4: Sleep out, snoring and sleep out near Yeah, And second
Speaker 4: is insomnia.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And then there are these other odds andes which are
Speaker 4: fascinating sleepwalking, night terrors, eating in the middle of the night,
Speaker 4: all sorts.
Speaker 2: Of eating in the middle of the night, eating what
Speaker 2: while you're asleep?
Speaker 3: Yeap?
Speaker 2: What so getting up and going raiding the fridge and
Speaker 2: not knowing you've done it.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 4: It's called sleep related eating disorder. And they don't know
Speaker 4: about it. They're in non ram they're in a sleepwalking mode.
Speaker 4: So they get up and they go and read the
Speaker 4: fridge and they go back. So they wake in the
Speaker 4: morning and sink, oh god, I'll be netted again, you know.
Speaker 4: And they've got chocolate bars soften and chocolate biscuits. But
Speaker 4: I've had one person who has put marmite on a
Speaker 4: steak and they tried to eat it. Another person who
Speaker 4: tried to eat the cat food. So they know them
Speaker 4: what to eat, and they know where the fridge is
Speaker 4: and they can do that. But the exactly what there is,
Speaker 4: oh my goodness. But usually it's chocolate biscuits or cake
Speaker 4: or something.
Speaker 2: Mama's on a steak does sound like something where you
Speaker 2: have to run past al brown? Is there something in that?
Speaker 2: It does sound strangely like it might sort of work
Speaker 2: and quite I don't know in somnia then, so what's
Speaker 2: the is are there? Well? I think I know the
Speaker 2: answer this question that there are sometimes a physiological reason
Speaker 2: why people have insomnia. It's not just the fact that
Speaker 2: their job's bothering them and that they can't switch off
Speaker 2: and they are things on their mind.
Speaker 4: Well, there are two things, I mean in so many
Speaker 4: of The other word for insbody, which I always think
Speaker 4: is helpful for a lot of patients to come in,
Speaker 4: is hyper arousal disorder. So it's a buzzy brain basically,
Speaker 4: and they're just either wake in the middle of the
Speaker 4: night and they can't go actually because their mind starts racing,
Speaker 4: or it's it happens when they go to bed. And
Speaker 4: as I say, exactly the description you gave was right.
Speaker 4: You go to bed, your line there reading a book.
Speaker 4: You think I can go to sleep. Now you put
Speaker 4: the book down and a ping on goes your brain
Speaker 4: instead of bang goes to sleep. So this think you know,
Speaker 4: I'm trying to go to sleep doesn't work. You have
Speaker 4: to lay yourself.
Speaker 2: Actually, there are I imagine this is just from my
Speaker 2: I think I've become more aware of thinking about how
Speaker 2: I get to sleep, and it's all your bloody faults.
Speaker 2: But you're probably the reason that sometimes I don't get
Speaker 2: to sleep because I think, I think Alex would say
Speaker 2: this and oh no, I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 4: Go again.
Speaker 2: But I have I do have one little trigger that
Speaker 2: helps me get to sleep that i've I only use
Speaker 2: it sparingly, like because you have discussed on this show
Speaker 2: not wearing a watch, right, Yes, and I do wear
Speaker 2: a watch when I go to bed, and it's it's
Speaker 2: you know, it's got one where the dials blow and
Speaker 2: if I wake up sometimes I will check it, but
Speaker 2: it's like it's I keep it in reserve because the
Speaker 2: signal I give my brain when I really want to
Speaker 2: go to sleep if I wake up in the middle
Speaker 2: of the night, as I take my watch off and
Speaker 2: I put it on the floor, and somehow that knowing
Speaker 2: that that watch is not going to be there for
Speaker 2: me to is my superpower. But I always sleep with
Speaker 2: it on if I get a good night's sleep. But
Speaker 2: every now and again I take it off, and somehow
Speaker 2: it just tells my brain, you know, the watchers on
Speaker 2: the floor. You don't have to worry about it any longer.
Speaker 2: You don't have to worry about the time. Who cares
Speaker 2: go to sleep?
Speaker 4: The reality is it doesn't matter what the time is
Speaker 4: when you wake. Everybody wakes at night virtually, so waking
Speaker 4: is actually a very normal thing to do. Most people
Speaker 4: go back to sleep so quickly, within two or three minutes,
Speaker 4: and have no recall they've worken. So waking up is normal,
Speaker 4: and so basically it's but if you wake up and
Speaker 4: then look at the clock, it often has that emotional
Speaker 4: impact on you. Oh no, it's one o'clock. I'm awake.
Speaker 4: I shouldn't be. Yes, you should go back to sleep.
Speaker 4: Stop fretting about it. But the problem I look at
Speaker 4: the I've got o'clock by my bed, and I can
Speaker 4: look at it and say, oh great, it's one o'clock.
Speaker 4: I've had two hours sleep. That's fantastic. Or it's five o'clock.
Speaker 4: Oh I've got another hour to goo. That's brilliant. So
Speaker 4: I can go back to sleep easily. So some people
Speaker 4: doesn't like me. It doesn't bother me to look at
Speaker 4: the clock, but a lot of people it does bother
Speaker 4: and just getting rid of the clock is often the
Speaker 4: number one thing we are people to do.
Speaker 2: Okay, we'd love your calls eight hundred eighty, ten and
Speaker 2: eighty If you're having a trouble getting a decent night sleep.
Speaker 2: If you've got any anything you want to run by
Speaker 2: Alex Bartell and we'll take your calls eight hundred eighty
Speaker 2: ten and eighty text nine two nine two. It is
Speaker 2: coming up to twenty one past four news talks. He'd be.
Speaker 3: Hang on the missile too.
Speaker 2: I'm again to know you better, yes, Chrismas and as
Speaker 2: we trend and welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm
Speaker 2: Tim Beverage. This sounds like a good song to get
Speaker 2: to slip too, actually, I must say, and that's suitable
Speaker 2: for the show because this is the health up of
Speaker 2: my guests. Dtor Alex Bartele is the director of the
Speaker 2: Sleepworld Clinic. We're taking your calls eight hundred and eight
Speaker 2: ten eighty any questions you've got around getting a good
Speaker 2: night's sleep, and we will. If you want to jump
Speaker 2: on the blower, you'll be first in the queue. But
Speaker 2: we've got a few texts here to get to Alex.
Speaker 2: So let's get into this one. Hey, boys, love the show.
Speaker 2: We're winning already. Here we go, just on my way
Speaker 2: for my third night shift in a row as a firefighter,
Speaker 2: and here we go. The first two have been horrendous
Speaker 2: for running around town all night and not being able
Speaker 2: to sleep in the daytime. How long do you think
Speaker 2: it takes to recover from a couple a couple of
Speaker 2: full nights sleep or shifts. I guess he's saying, yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, in the past, we'd used to teach that
Speaker 4: two full nights of sleep eight hours eight nine hours
Speaker 4: of sleep will recover any form of sleep debt that
Speaker 4: you might have accrued. It's not thought that now we
Speaker 4: know that it's probably going to take six to seven
Speaker 4: days to actually get over that if you want to,
Speaker 4: which means, you know, if you're back on shift again,
Speaker 4: then it really doesn't give you enough time to recover.
Speaker 4: But you know, allowing yourself to settle and as soon
Speaker 4: as you come home, just not trying to get straight
Speaker 4: into bed necessarily if you're not still wired from a
Speaker 4: you've been racing around, dealing with the accidents, and so
Speaker 4: just allowing yourself to calm down a little bit, making
Speaker 4: sure you get into a cool You've got a cool
Speaker 4: environment that you come home to, curtains drawn, lights down,
Speaker 4: so prepare yourself. You can have a snack when you
Speaker 4: get home, but keeping it cool and dark, and just
Speaker 4: trying to allow yourself to just calm down a bit,
Speaker 4: but give yourself a bit of space. Don't think I
Speaker 4: need to go straight to bed and go straight.
Speaker 2: To say because I mean, as I've shared, I do
Speaker 2: a couple of shifts. But the people I really think about,
Speaker 2: people who working in the health system, who do ten
Speaker 2: or twelve hour shifts and then they I'm not sure
Speaker 2: exactly how it works because they're not always on night
Speaker 2: shift and they're not always on day shift. It's sort
Speaker 2: of but that does sound to me to be pretty
Speaker 2: punishing sort of schedule, doesn't that.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure what this caller what a shifts is,
Speaker 4: but a lot of the file servers to twelve hour shifts.
Speaker 4: They do two nights, two days for off.
Speaker 3: See.
Speaker 4: Actually, if you're going to do shift work, it's probably
Speaker 4: not a bad shift pattern.
Speaker 2: I think they can sleep at the station too.
Speaker 4: They have clearly this die together, and they're often pretty
Speaker 4: horrific things they're dealing with too, so it can be
Speaker 4: quite emotionally challenging to come home after one of those events.
Speaker 2: MM, and here's another one here. So are we offering
Speaker 2: advice on that, No, we're just saying how long it takes? So, yeah,
Speaker 2: six or seven days, so it is problematic. I've always
Speaker 2: had the theory with my shifts, if I sleep a
Speaker 2: bit before the shift and a bit after that, it
Speaker 2: averages out. But to be honest, it, you know, still
Speaker 2: still has its moments and been a bit of a struggle. Okay,
Speaker 2: here's one says bottle. Oh okay, here we go, bottle
Speaker 2: of wine and two zopper clone, zopper plane zoppolar caine.
Speaker 2: What's the word zopper clone? Okay, out for eight hours?
Speaker 2: Been doing it for twenty years. I don't think we
Speaker 2: want to prescribe that that would Normally that would worry
Speaker 2: you a bit, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3: It would?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean certainly it's going to knock you out.
Speaker 4: There's no question. Alcohol is very sedative, and zopper clone,
Speaker 4: added tod it is going to make you more sedative.
Speaker 4: But quality of sleep will be awful. You'll probably be
Speaker 4: gnoring like a trooper. And because you and the actual
Speaker 4: sleep quality, you're not getting any of the proper sleep
Speaker 4: cycles that you should be having. So, you know, twenty
Speaker 4: years you obviously started when you're a young person. Do
Speaker 4: it for another ten years and I think you'll start
Speaker 4: to regret it. So it's not ideal.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's that's main which is worse than
Speaker 2: zopper clone or the wine. I'm going to go with
Speaker 2: the bottle of wine alcohol.
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean that's part of the problem. It's not
Speaker 4: going to very relatively safe medication. In fact, it's just
Speaker 4: that it is so jolly good for many people that
Speaker 4: people get a bit hooked on it. That's the downside,
Speaker 4: and then it starts not to work, of course, as
Speaker 4: with most of the sleeping medications, but it's pretty safe.
Speaker 4: I'lohol or not.
Speaker 2: I've got a mildly mischievous question, and because of the
Speaker 2: time start of the show, I'm going to ask it
Speaker 2: in a polite way. But sometimes when you know, when
Speaker 2: couples have a nice time together, yes, that can can
Speaker 2: lead to a good night's sleep, quality hugs and cuddles
Speaker 2: and all that sort of thing. Is there something that
Speaker 2: are just to be said for quality nookie before sleep time?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: And why is that?
Speaker 4: Well, physiologically it is to do with the love hormone.
Speaker 4: I guess we call it oxytocin, and oxytocin particularly with
Speaker 4: the organism, tends to release oxytocin and then that's very
Speaker 4: relaxing hormone. So you're very likely to sleep better.
Speaker 2: Oxytocin sounds like something you could get prescribed, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: I don't. I'm sure they're working on it.
Speaker 2: Well actually, well, I guess just because it's a chemical
Speaker 2: and we must know what oxytocin has made. Of course,
Speaker 2: they've got a name of which which the name must
Speaker 2: be reflective of some of the compounds that are in it.
Speaker 4: Absolutely so. I don't know whether it's artificially made or not.
Speaker 2: I don't know what other sort of things is it
Speaker 2: a sense of is it simply just Oxytocin can be
Speaker 2: generated by other things, like a sense of satisfaction having
Speaker 2: had a great day or something, and you're feeling.
Speaker 4: Like, yes, absolutely so. I mean it is a but
Speaker 4: it's particularly skin contact cuddles that something are particularly powerful
Speaker 4: for producing oxytocin.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that that's even why if you know, when
Speaker 2: if you're just having a hug, and you know, if
Speaker 2: your kids are having trouble sleeping in the end and
Speaker 2: they just want you to lie next to them and
Speaker 2: they just snuggle up, then that helps them because and
Speaker 2: that clicks in that sort of is it a hormone.
Speaker 4: Or a hormone?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Actually that is quite Actually that's interesting to know,
Speaker 2: actually that because I think a lot of the time,
Speaker 2: especially on a hot nights, to be honest, nobody wants
Speaker 2: to hug all it. You know, you don't want to
Speaker 2: get it. Keep away from me, it's stinking hot. But
Speaker 2: then you're you're depriving yourself of the oxytocin.
Speaker 4: Well except for you. You know, if you stay too
Speaker 4: close together, then you are going to sweat like anything,
Speaker 4: and it's not going to help you sleep. So yes,
Speaker 4: move apart if you're very hot.
Speaker 2: Okay, I've got I'm not sure if you're going to
Speaker 2: have an opinion on this one, but I'm going to
Speaker 2: run it up the flagpole because those people listening also
Speaker 2: might have an opinion on this. This person, Alvin says
Speaker 2: tilting the bed, didn't say which way is going to
Speaker 2: tilt it, of course, and body orientation north south. And lastly,
Speaker 2: blue light from led screens. I'm thinking he means avoid
Speaker 2: the blue light from the laid screen. Yes, ah, Actually
Speaker 2: I have heard people do talk about oh, which way
Speaker 2: is your bed facing? Is it facing east or west
Speaker 2: or all this sort of thing. And there's a part
Speaker 2: of me that thinks, you know, I mean, if a
Speaker 2: compass can react to the Earth's magnetic you sort of
Speaker 2: intuitively you think, surely the Earth's magnetic field and orientation,
Speaker 2: it effects of the moon, affects the tides and all
Speaker 2: these sorts of things, so that the homeopathic and beveragere
Speaker 2: doesn't really exist. If he did, that would be going,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, body direction has to have something to do
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 4: Well, it's the old feng Shui idea, I think concept
Speaker 4: which has been going for thousands of years, and a
Speaker 4: lot of it. I mean, yes, you're quite right. I
Speaker 4: mean there's almost certainly some magnetic impacts on things, but
Speaker 4: it's so meniscal compared with if I'm stressed or if
Speaker 4: i've you know, things going into your household or whatever,
Speaker 4: that will take over. So yes, there's probably minor improvement.
Speaker 4: I think most of the minor improvement is that you
Speaker 4: feel better about it. You know, I've been told that
Speaker 4: I'm going to sleep better if I have the bed
Speaker 4: put here by the window, or something. So yeah, so
Speaker 4: I'm more likely to see about forty percent of anything
Speaker 4: to do with sleep is placebo response, you know, and
Speaker 4: many of the things people got sleep on the bottle
Speaker 4: as long as you've got sleep on the bottle, it
Speaker 4: will help about forty percent of people go to sleep.
Speaker 2: Actually, that's an interesting one because the placebo effect itself
Speaker 2: and they still I mean, there's still research going on
Speaker 2: as to how effective it is. But in a way,
Speaker 2: getting informed as to your medicine is in fact useless,
Speaker 2: is not very helpful because if there's a placebo effect
Speaker 2: that's possible, then it almost argues for the parts of
Speaker 2: your life that are best left or lived in ignorance,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean I guess that's right, because this
Speaker 4: thing that's pretty harmless is chemical or the thing you
Speaker 4: buy from the health shop is harmless, but it's helping
Speaker 4: me sleep, So why don't I use it? But I'd say, well, fine,
Speaker 4: if you need to use it, it's often quite expensive.
Speaker 4: But if you need to use it and you get
Speaker 4: to sleep, it's not to do you now go for it.
Speaker 4: That's fine, But there are other ways in which we
Speaker 4: could do without needing to use medication.
Speaker 2: Because I was in a health food shop or with
Speaker 2: a friend and my friend was looking for some melatonin
Speaker 2: and I was thinking, how I don't think you can
Speaker 2: get melatonin in New Zealand. And anyway, the woman at
Speaker 2: the counter of the said, oh, yes, we have melotonin
Speaker 2: and went over to the homeopathic sort of thing and
Speaker 2: said and said, we've got it here. I thought, I
Speaker 2: didn't think you could sell it here. She said, oh, yes,
Speaker 2: we can. And I said, thirty c does that mean
Speaker 2: that that's been sort of diluted one one hundred and
Speaker 2: thirty times? And she looked at me like i'd she
Speaker 2: looked at me like a broken wind in the shop. Actually,
Speaker 2: but I didn't want to ruin the party for my reason,
Speaker 2: for my friend who actually if they believed it was
Speaker 2: going to get a good night's sleep.
Speaker 4: So right, yeah, but what can you do? I mean, basically,
Speaker 4: there are many other ways of having melatonin in our
Speaker 4: bodies apart from taking it by tablets. And even the
Speaker 4: manufacturers of Cicadian, which is the two milligram slow release product,
Speaker 4: which is you can buy on the script here, you
Speaker 4: can get on script even they said it really made
Speaker 4: very little difference or no difference to all under fifty
Speaker 4: five year olds, so it's actually only designed for older people.
Speaker 2: So that's melatonin.
Speaker 4: Yeah, melotonin.
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't it make any difference for younger people.
Speaker 4: Because we've got so much melotone in ourselves. And you
Speaker 4: know if you have some meltone at night and then
Speaker 4: you reading your iPhone or something, you immediately destroying the
Speaker 4: melotone in anyway. And also it goes into your gut,
Speaker 4: has to go first pass through the liver, goes into
Speaker 4: your bloodstream, then crosses a blood brain barry into your brain.
Speaker 4: You need it in your brain. H quickest way into
Speaker 4: your brain is through your eyes.
Speaker 2: And we know how to get that. We're going to
Speaker 2: touch on that after the break, actually, because it's probably
Speaker 2: the most repeated bit of advice I've used from having
Speaker 2: a chat with you Alex on the show. I we
Speaker 2: eight one hundred eighty ten eighties. The number tixt nine
Speaker 2: two nine two will be back in just a moment.
Speaker 2: It's twenty five minutes to five news talks.
Speaker 3: He'd be he sees you and your sleep then and
Speaker 3: in those when you're doing he knows that you've been
Speaker 3: fud so they're good for goodness.
Speaker 2: That's welcome back to the wee Can Collective. This is
Speaker 2: the health AUP. My guests, doctor Alex Barber. We're talking
Speaker 2: about getting good good night's sleep, and a whole lot
Speaker 2: of them there's there's so many issues around it, Alex.
Speaker 2: I got lots of texts on this. By the way,
Speaker 2: if you want to jump the que of the text,
Speaker 2: you can give us a call on E one hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty ten eighty. Um. What about cramp? Is this text?
Speaker 2: What do you do? Yeah, cramp when you're sleeping, Alex.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, cramps is different to the rest of SEK syndrome,
Speaker 4: so the two can often be mixed up. Cramp so
Speaker 4: it's a muscular spasm, of course, and the things that
Speaker 4: may help that. For example, magnesium is supposed to help that,
Speaker 4: so I would say that that's something worth trying, but
Speaker 4: it's often a assault type efficiency. Possibly. I know we're
Speaker 4: told to be careful of too much salt because of
Speaker 4: hypertension and medical issues, but perhaps a lack of salt
Speaker 4: is traditionally one of the things you need to make
Speaker 4: sure you're having a little bit of. But magnesium is fine.
Speaker 4: But of course you can get magnesium in food stuff
Speaker 4: as well, So again I want, rather than taking medication
Speaker 4: as such, a having a good diet with some magnesium
Speaker 4: in it, like nuts and certain fruits. I'm not a nutritionist,
Speaker 4: but I know you can get it from food.
Speaker 2: Now before the break, we're talking about malatone and how
Speaker 2: you naturally produce it, and that is the I've had
Speaker 2: a chat with my wife about this when we went
Speaker 2: for a walk, and because she would go with the
Speaker 2: dark glasses on, and I just sort of said, well don't.
Speaker 2: I'm quoting our sleep specialist that if you want to
Speaker 2: get a good night's sleep at night, it's melatonin and
Speaker 2: the way to get that is to generate serotonin by
Speaker 2: exposing yourself to light, to take the shades off. Right,
Speaker 2: And there is something in that, doesn't it?
Speaker 4: Absolutely yes, But it's not just bright shiny light. I
Speaker 4: mean that's not Our ancestors didn't know anything about glare,
Speaker 4: so we don't like glare.
Speaker 2: Now what is clear then, Well, it's.
Speaker 4: Things like tilt slab buildings and concrete slabs.
Speaker 2: And urban environment. Urban environment not so much reflections of
Speaker 2: the sunlight off the sea.
Speaker 4: Well, off the sea, I would wear protection older sunglasses.
Speaker 4: If you're skiing, i'd certainly wear sunglasses. Oh yeah, so
Speaker 4: it's all glary. But if you're going for a walk
Speaker 4: through the local park or gardens, you know it's shaded
Speaker 4: blue green light, which is our natural environment. And what
Speaker 4: our ancestors have been in for thousands of years. That
Speaker 4: blue green light hits your writtener has to hit your eyes.
Speaker 4: If you block the eyes with sets with sunglasses, then
Speaker 4: it's not hitting you rerittener. Okay, so it's not skin.
Speaker 4: Skin is vitamin D, but it's eyes for serotonin. It
Speaker 4: goes into your brain. It's alter the size of your
Speaker 4: pupil one of the things it does, of course, and
Speaker 4: you know that you go outside, the pupils clamp down.
Speaker 4: If you go outside and put your Sonny's on. Of course,
Speaker 4: pupils just stay where they are. You've done it for them.
Speaker 4: So when you forget your son is, they're very slow
Speaker 4: at clamping down, which it needs.
Speaker 2: Oh well, I'm really sensitive to light.
Speaker 4: You've often created that problem by wearing sunnys all the time.
Speaker 2: Well, the other thing is as well is that I mean,
Speaker 2: this is more of an eye thing. But if you
Speaker 2: find it hard to tolerate and tolerate just being out
Speaker 2: in the garden because you're wearing sunglasses all the time,
Speaker 2: you actually there is a you do lose your tolerance
Speaker 2: to bright light if you're always sticking such trades.
Speaker 4: That's exactly right now, I'm not Don't get me wrong,
Speaker 4: I'm not anti sunglasses. I think yeah, particularly for people
Speaker 4: with making a degeneration, glaucoma, cataract, all those sort of
Speaker 4: medical things. But if you know, if you don't have
Speaker 4: those things, then when you're going for a walk through
Speaker 4: the local woodland and parks and what have you slip
Speaker 4: them off. Let that blue green light hit your retina.
Speaker 4: It goes to the middle of the brain, suppresses melatonin,
Speaker 4: so it wakes us up, but also starts producing serotonin.
Speaker 4: And the more serotonin we produced in the day, the
Speaker 4: more melatonin it converts to at night.
Speaker 2: There is something useful there for shift workers as well,
Speaker 2: isn't there, Because again, I mean relates to my own situation,
Speaker 2: but anyone is a shift worker. I imagine those When
Speaker 2: you get up, if the first thing you do, apart
Speaker 2: from having maybe a banana and a glass of water,
Speaker 2: is to go for a walk in the outside air,
Speaker 2: that sort of does help, doesn't it, because one that
Speaker 2: wakes you up, even if you're feeling a but CD.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no, it's a good idea to get outside.
Speaker 4: Spending time outside is hugely important, and we do it
Speaker 4: very badly. Really at the moment. And as you know that,
Speaker 4: I mean if we travel overseas, you go to Sydney
Speaker 4: or go to Asia, you go on holiday, you spend
Speaker 4: more time outside. So we train quite a lot more
Speaker 4: quickly if we spend time outside than if we do
Speaker 4: come home and spend med cooks. Going east is always
Speaker 4: going west is always much more difficult when you're traveling, sorry,
Speaker 4: going east is much more difficult.
Speaker 2: So as soon as you say going east is much
Speaker 2: more difficult than going west, it makes me think of
Speaker 2: that whole sleeping direction thing again as well. Why is
Speaker 2: it easier to travel in one direction not the other?
Speaker 4: Well, because the sunlight, the sun is traveling around. And
Speaker 4: so if you go to Perth, for example, which you
Speaker 4: say five hours delayed, then you go in to bed
Speaker 4: west going west. Heah, So if it's eleven o'clock in
Speaker 4: New Zealand, it's actually four o'clock in the morning there,
Speaker 4: so you're going to go straight to.
Speaker 2: Sleep, all right, Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 4: If it's eleven o'clock in Perth, then it's actually only
Speaker 4: what is it six o'clock here?
Speaker 2: And again, if you're flying to London, doesn't really matter
Speaker 2: whether you go east or west because you're on the
Speaker 2: other side of the it's the destinations pretty much totally intopodan, doesn't.
Speaker 4: It absolutely, But spend time outside as we do when
Speaker 4: we go over size, we tend to spend time outside.
Speaker 2: Okay, just before we go to our caller. There's a
Speaker 2: doozy of a question on text here which I've been
Speaker 2: meaning to ask. I'm not sure if I have yet,
Speaker 2: and it's come up a few times. In grounding mats
Speaker 2: grounding sheets. I don't know if you've come across this,
Speaker 2: but it's it's it's about being connected to the earth,
Speaker 2: and so people have these sheets which can do the earth,
Speaker 2: which means that they put apparently there is something about
Speaker 2: the electromagnetic or something about the human body, and people
Speaker 2: use these grounding Do you know anything about grounding mats?
Speaker 4: No, I know the mats that you use that have
Speaker 4: got lots of spikes or you know, nodules that you
Speaker 4: see lyon, and that seems to be quite helpful. Whether
Speaker 4: that's what they are, I'm not sure, but it would
Speaker 4: be the same sort of ideas of putting in the
Speaker 4: right direction, I guess. But being connected to us, I mean,
Speaker 4: I'm all in favor of that in terms of I
Speaker 4: was very skeptical about things like forest hugging and you know,
Speaker 4: tree hugging and forest bathing. I'm really in favor of that. Now,
Speaker 4: why's that because it's you're in the right environment, blue
Speaker 4: green light.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, no, I did. I do remember this now.
Speaker 2: I talked to it about it with John Cameron because
Speaker 2: there was a study on some medical journal thing and
Speaker 2: he put it in context that said, if they were
Speaker 2: really a thing, there'd be much more than one study
Speaker 2: that suggests that possibly something's happening. Yeah, so, but yeah, right,
Speaker 2: let's go to stew good E again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good right, Yeah, Hi, I'm wearing sunglasses most of
Speaker 1: my life. I'm on my mad sexties. I don't need
Speaker 1: glasses to read, whereas a lot of my peers do,
Speaker 1: in fact, even younger. But I do have problems sleeping.
Speaker 1: So is it because I'm wearing sunglasses.
Speaker 4: Well, let's put it this way, if you were, if
Speaker 4: you didn't wear sunglasses during the day, you would produce
Speaker 4: more serotonin eur in the day, which would then convert
Speaker 4: to meltonia to help you sleep better at night. Your
Speaker 4: interesting point about your eyesight's very good, which is brilliant.
Speaker 4: I do worry about a lot of screen time for
Speaker 4: youngsters and how that may be impacting on eyesight for
Speaker 4: the future. That's not my field, but I've been interested.
Speaker 1: I don't do that.
Speaker 2: Well, you don't know.
Speaker 4: That's not that, But you're saying that younger people do
Speaker 4: and their eyesight's failing. I don't know that it's to
Speaker 4: do with any do with sunglasses. I think it's more
Speaker 4: to do with just constant screen time, which you don's okay,
Speaker 4: all right, okay, all the.
Speaker 1: People why age you're wearing glasses to read?
Speaker 2: Maybe is that just genetics something?
Speaker 4: I don't wear glasses for reading or driving. Actually, so
Speaker 4: I'm in there.
Speaker 2: You go, you and Alex You're you're not alone, thank you. Yes.
Speaker 2: Somebody of us asked just on the insomnia that makes
Speaker 2: you eat person, saying what is it that actually causes
Speaker 2: people to have that sort of insomnia? Is it something
Speaker 2: you can do to avoid it? In other words, what
Speaker 2: makes people do it?
Speaker 4: Right? There are two eating disorders in the night. One
Speaker 4: is sleep related eating disorder, which is like sleepwalking. So
Speaker 4: anything that controls sleepwalking is usually the first two or
Speaker 4: three hours, three or four hours of the night usually
Speaker 4: exist is a genetic background usually, so you've might have
Speaker 4: been a sleepwalker on right terror in the past. It's
Speaker 4: triggered by fatigue or stress. So if you want to
Speaker 4: reduce the instance of doing these things at night, then
Speaker 4: reduce stress or fatigue, which means getting better sleep. I
Speaker 4: guess there's another one called night eating disorder, which is
Speaker 4: actually slightly different. It means that you wake in the
Speaker 4: middle of the night and you and you have this
Speaker 4: this feeling you have to eat something before you go
Speaker 4: back to sleep. It's a little bit more a bit
Speaker 4: of an OCD type consideration. So it's there, but they're awake,
Speaker 4: they just need something to eat in their tummy before
Speaker 4: they can get them theirselves back to sleep. So it
Speaker 4: becomes oh, really, oh that's in the middle of the night.
Speaker 4: That's night eating disorder.
Speaker 2: It's not me having a peanut but a sandwich at
Speaker 2: ten thirty.
Speaker 4: Because no, no, no, that's in the middle of the night.
Speaker 2: That's just a lack of discipline on Actually, what is
Speaker 2: it that gives people sort of night You know, people
Speaker 2: have a snack craving sort of and they've had a dinner.
Speaker 2: I mean sometimes they've had a good dinner and things.
Speaker 2: But if I think peanut but a sandwich.
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, it's look. I talk about this all
Speaker 4: the time because a lot of people do have a
Speaker 4: meal and then in the evening they snack for me.
Speaker 4: I think, why do you do that? You've just had
Speaker 4: a meal for heading's sake. Well, it's probably because you're
Speaker 4: a bit tired. When we get tired, it also has
Speaker 4: hormented your brain called liptin and grilling and liptinoils drop,
Speaker 4: crillinals rise, and brain needed something, So.
Speaker 2: I should just go to bed instead.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you don't actually need it, it's your
Speaker 4: brain is telling you and it becomes habit.
Speaker 2: Of course, I think i'd probably be about to kilo. Anyway,
Speaker 2: We're going to be back in just a moment, eleven
Speaker 2: minutes to five, News talks. It'd be the news talks.
Speaker 2: It be yes at eight minutes to five, not much
Speaker 2: time left, but Tom squeezing a quick call. Jeremy Hello,
Speaker 2: Jeremy Hello, can you hear me?
Speaker 3: Ye?
Speaker 5: I'll just turn you.
Speaker 2: That's a good idea.
Speaker 5: I just my question relates. So I got the back
Speaker 5: end of what you're talking about with serotonin from light?
Speaker 5: Is that only from natural light that you can get
Speaker 5: that that serotonin or is the man made lighting options
Speaker 5: that I don't know, maybe a sill of question, but
Speaker 5: is there other ways to get that in?
Speaker 4: Yeah, there are blue light producer that you can get
Speaker 4: special glasses for example that blue produces blue light which
Speaker 4: is very good at suppressing melatonin producing serotonin. The thing
Speaker 4: I like about outside light is that you do a
Speaker 4: bit of exercise in a lovely environment, whereas you know glasses,
Speaker 4: blue glasses and blue light boxes do similar thing, but
Speaker 4: they're you know, you're sitting in an office or sitting
Speaker 4: at home doing it, So yeah, they would they would
Speaker 4: be similar.
Speaker 2: Is that Chris, you're stuck inside for your job at
Speaker 2: Jeremy and you're thinking there's got to be a way
Speaker 2: of getting some blue light here.
Speaker 5: Yes, it was more for a family member. So if
Speaker 5: you know, predominantly inside and like you know, with not
Speaker 5: bright lighting most of the day and they've got real
Speaker 5: trouble sleeping, I was wondering maybe they could be of assistance.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean we do use blue light glasses
Speaker 4: in the morning. We actually have those available which people
Speaker 4: use if they if they're really unable to get out
Speaker 4: for half an hour walk in the morn morning, then
Speaker 4: blue light glasses work very well, and of course you
Speaker 4: should you change them over to amber colored glasses at night,
Speaker 4: which are blue blockers, so it blocks the blue light
Speaker 4: in the evening. So these glasses are good for that
Speaker 4: context for people maybe like your friend, who actually can't
Speaker 4: spend time outside for whatever reason. You know, they've got
Speaker 4: busy lives, they've got family, whatever, a lot of reasons
Speaker 4: why people can't get outside, No.
Speaker 2: Trouble. Where would you get blue glasses from? Are they just?
Speaker 2: Are they just sort of blue bluish lenses. They know
Speaker 2: they produce blue light, They produce them, they convert the light.
Speaker 2: That's because actually that's interesting that you mentioned that, because
Speaker 2: I think there are a lot of office spaces where
Speaker 2: people think that the blue light is the villain. But
Speaker 2: in fact, if you're in an inside office environment, then
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be running away from the blue light because
Speaker 2: it's nothing theoretically.
Speaker 4: I mean, computers, of course have got a lot of
Speaker 4: blue lights, so that theoretically is actually not unhelpful. But
Speaker 4: you know, the outside, because it's varied, it's not just
Speaker 4: blue light. I mean outside is blue and green, and
Speaker 4: those are the wavelengths, that area of wavelength that does
Speaker 4: you so good apart from being outside.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. So in an office environment, you shouldn't
Speaker 2: be freaking out about the blue light from your screens
Speaker 2: if you are working during the day. In fact, a
Speaker 2: funny thing is if you're a shift worker, you need
Speaker 2: to stay awake anyway. I mean, God, I'm surrounded by
Speaker 2: screens and when I'm doing night work. So actually, that's
Speaker 2: that's interesting because I think there's this general sense of
Speaker 2: rule of thumb for the public, like all blue light's
Speaker 2: the devil, but actually blue lights your friend during the day.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, but I mean, you know, in the end,
Speaker 4: so blue light generally outside is always ideal.
Speaker 2: Hey, that's pretty much it. We've only got about a
Speaker 2: minute left. Alex. Thanks so much for coming on the
Speaker 2: show this year. Have you got anything interesting plan for
Speaker 2: Christmas or you're taking a bit of time off?
Speaker 4: Yeah, a bit of time off over Christmas is have
Speaker 4: a bit of a break. I'm coming in to see
Speaker 4: you guys again on the fifth, I think it is.
Speaker 4: I'm back in January.
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, that'll be Is that in the Morning show
Speaker 2: or something that'll be with Francisca A good stuff.
Speaker 4: That's nice. Yeah, So we're just saving up to spend
Speaker 4: a bit of time overseas.
Speaker 2: Oh oh really, anywhere you can share with us. You
Speaker 2: don't have to share of course the end of next year.
Speaker 2: Our end of next year. So you're saving up for
Speaker 2: the big trail. Absolutely. Oh you and Me's which continent?
Speaker 4: Well, we would have spent at least ten days in Spain,
Speaker 4: which much about.
Speaker 2: At this time of year in the winter as our
Speaker 2: autumn time. Perfect time.
Speaker 4: Family in England of course, my family is mainly in England.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, And if people want to catch up with
Speaker 2: your connect the sleep Well Clinic.
Speaker 4: Sleep Well Clinic in excellent, Thanks Jim Having.
Speaker 2: Thanks you too, you too. We'll be back shortly with
Speaker 2: Smart Money. This is news talk Z. It'd be Shane
Speaker 2: Solly is going to be with us and we're talking
Speaker 2: about the changes that the government making to the key
Speaker 2: we saver providers, allowing them to increase their private asset investments.
Speaker 2: Sounds pretty harmless, so we're going to dig into that
Speaker 2: after five o'clock with Shane Solly. We take your calls
Speaker 2: as well, a little bit of Christmas music to ease
Speaker 2: you into the news. Back soon.
Speaker 1: The bushels of for more from the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 2: Listen live to news talks it'd be weekends from three pm,
Speaker 2: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio