1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Gilda. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. The Australian 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 2: federal election is heating up. Anthony Alberizi is facing the 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 2: challenge of becoming the first PM to be re elected 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: since John Howard. Alberizi has been an MP since nineteen 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: ninety six, when he was the youngest labor member of 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: the House. 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 3: For myself, I will be satisfied if I can be 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 3: remembered as someone who will stand up for the interests 11 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 3: of my electorate, for working class people, for the labor movement, 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 3: and for our progressive advancement as a nation into the 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 3: next century. 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Opposition leader Peter Dutton brings with him a wealth 15 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 2: of experience, having been elected to the House of Representatives 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 2: in two thousand and one aged thirty. 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 4: Mister Speaker of the Silent Majority, the forgotten people, or 18 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 4: the aspirational voter of our generations, some like to term 19 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 4: it fed up with bodies like the Civil Liberties Council 20 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 4: and the Refugee Action Collective, and certainly the dictatorship of 21 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 4: the trade union movement. 22 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: Both men have sat across the aisle from each other 23 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 2: for years, and this Saturday, Australians will vote which will lead. 24 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: Their country for the next three years. Today on the. 25 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 2: Front page, ABC News political reporter Claudia Long takes a 26 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 2: break from following around the candidates and joins us from 27 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: Melbourne to talk polls, policies and what Kiwi's and Aussie 28 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: need to know. First off, Claudia, how's the campaign been 29 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 2: thus far? 30 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 5: Long? Well, it feels long, it's actually been relatively short, 31 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 5: so they've been five weeks. But it's been a bit 32 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 5: of a bumpy road, I think for a number of 33 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 5: the leaders, particularly for the Opposition leader Peter Glotvin, so 34 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 5: he's had a few stumbles over the last week. But 35 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 5: the Prime Minister is also, you know, had a not 36 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 5: quite perfect campaign either. I think it's not exactly what 37 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 5: either of them we're hoping for that we're getting to 38 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 5: crunch point now. A lot of people have already voted here. 39 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 5: Early voting is a big thing in Australia and only 40 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 5: getting bigger, and so these last few days, even though 41 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 5: lots of lots of people have already voted, I think 42 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 5: there's still at least half of the voting population who hasn't, 43 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 5: so there's still some time for leaders to make their pictures, 44 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 5: for local candidates to get out there and meet potential 45 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 5: constituents who were almost at the end, which is a 46 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 5: little bit of a relief. 47 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: At the start of twenty twenty five, it looked like 48 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 2: the coalition was going to make Albernezia one term prime minister. 49 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: But in the last few weeks though, the polling is 50 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: flipped and now Labor and Elbow are ahead in most categories. 51 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 2: So what's gone on there? 52 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: Do you think? 53 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 5: Well, I think there's been some of those stumbles from 54 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 5: the opposition, whether that they had a policy around springing 55 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 5: all public servants back into the office, so getting rid 56 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 5: of working from home provisions if you're at the public service. Now, 57 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 5: that went down like a lead balloon basically, well beyond 58 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 5: public service as well, because there's a lot of folks 59 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 5: here who, you know, like having a flexibility to work 60 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 5: from home whether or not they're in the public service, 61 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 5: and I think a lot of people were really put 62 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 5: off by that policy. Now that's since been reversed, but 63 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 5: the damage was really a done there. I think the 64 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 5: federal government's also had a number of things their way 65 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 5: as well during the campaign that has sort of exacerbated 66 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 5: that problem for Peter Dutton, the coalition leader. So they've 67 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 5: had policy announcements that have been quite well received, particularly 68 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 5: around housing, but also around tax deductions as well, and 69 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 5: so I think that sort of all contributes to that 70 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 5: slide that you've seen for Peter Dutton in the polls. Yeah. 71 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: I read somewhere as well. 72 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: I mean, the Trump effect really took Europe by a storm. 73 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: I know, a lot of far right parties in Europe 74 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: gained a lot from Trump's success. Has done kind of 75 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: gotten the tail end of it. So when he's talking 76 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: about immigration and things, I mean, and then we saw 77 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: the tariff wars that have erupted since Trump announced those 78 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: earlier this year. Has he just kind of got in 79 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: at the tail end of it. 80 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you're exactly right, and I think in 81 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 5: this case it's actually a good Trump effect, but it's negative. 82 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 5: So he has been really trying to existence himself from 83 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 5: Donald Trump. This is after you know, earlier in his 84 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 5: time as opposition leader saying that he's a think out, 85 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 5: really kind of praising the United States president almost. I 86 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 5: think that also a lot of his campaign has been 87 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 5: likened to Trump. So for example, we've seen that the 88 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 5: opposition we're going to introduce a DOGE, you know, a 89 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 5: Department of Government deficiency. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's 90 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 5: still on their list of things that they want to do, 91 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 5: which was immediately likely to Trump. I mean, even the 92 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 5: name is the same as the American one, which has 93 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 5: obviously been associated with a lot of job losses, with 94 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 5: a lot of cuts in the United States, and of 95 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 5: course with Elon Musks, who I think it's fair to 96 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 5: say a lot of voters find quite off putting. And 97 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 5: that's what I say. The privateness has been perfect on 98 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 5: this either. You know, I've seen, particularly online in one 99 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,679 Speaker 5: of the debates, the Prime Minister said Donald Trump hasn't 100 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 5: given him a reason not to trust him. Now, I've 101 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 5: seen a lot of women I'll negatively react to that, 102 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 5: particularly quoting for example, when he's bragged about sexually harassing 103 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 5: or groping live for instance. So I think you know 104 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 5: that the Trump factor is definitely a factor, but it's 105 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 5: been more of a problem for Peter Duncktt. 106 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 4: This election is all about who can best manage the 107 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 4: Australian economy and if we can manage the economy well, 108 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 4: it means that we can bring inflation down. It means 109 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 4: that we can help families with the cost of living 110 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 4: crisis that this government's created. We live in the best 111 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 4: country in the world, but we do know that many 112 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 4: families are doing it tough. 113 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 6: Australians have a real choice this Saturday to continue building 114 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 6: Australia's future or go back to the past. Labor has 115 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 6: a real plan for cost of living support today whilst 116 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 6: building with investment for tomorrow. 117 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 2: What are the key policies from each party? 118 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 5: Most of it, really SAICH is around possibly the Labor 119 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 5: that's been around increasing Medicare bulk billing rebates. So the 120 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 5: way that menkey works in Australia is that a rebate 121 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 5: is set for doctors who bolt bill, which is see 122 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 5: the patients for free, so doctors will get more backed 123 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 5: for that. They've got a whole women's health package that's 124 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 5: particularly focused on contraception but also on menopause treatment, as 125 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 5: well as expanding their first home buyers home deposit scheme, 126 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 5: so that's when you can get a five percent house 127 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 5: rather than ten percent the mortgage and then the government 128 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 5: will guarantee your loon on the Polis side. They've also 129 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 5: got a lot around housing and cost of living, so 130 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 5: they have been arguing that our first home buyers should 131 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 5: be able to deduct their mortgage payments from their taxes. 132 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 5: That's been one of their key policies in selected and 133 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 5: they're also proposing a twenty five percent migration cut which 134 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 5: has been a highly controversial. It's been fascinating to see 135 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 5: the impact that that policy has on Saturday, particularly when 136 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 5: you know our economy but also our care sector in 137 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 5: particular here in Australia relies a lot on skilled migration 138 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 5: quite heavily. That would have a far reaching key packed 139 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 5: that policy. And who've been trying to get questions Actually 140 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 5: two Peter don't about whether or not care workers will 141 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 5: be exempt, and he won't answer when we've asked. So 142 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 5: I think that's that's a point of interest as well. 143 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 5: That the migration puts is definitely one of those big 144 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 5: policies which they link to housing too. They claim the 145 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 5: housing shortage is a bit exacerbated particularly by international students. 146 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 5: And then they also are pitching a national gas reservation 147 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 5: of policy, so they see gas as very much a 148 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 5: part of their plans to get to zero along with 149 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 5: building a number of nuclear power plants as well. 150 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: So here in New Zealand, the big issues when it 151 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: comes to Australia is the five h one deportees coming 152 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: back here and on the pathways to citizenship for those 153 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: Kiwis who do live there. What have the major parties 154 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 2: said about the rights of New Zealanders in Australia. 155 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 5: So the Coalition have actually adopted the policy that Labor 156 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 5: put in place in twenty twenty three, which is about 157 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 5: making getting citizenship here akili so you get it up 158 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 5: to four years. I believe it's a permanent resident in 159 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 5: Australia with very few exceptions. Now, when Labor introduced that, 160 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 5: the Coalition book highly critical again on this sort of 161 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 5: housing front related to migration. They said they were concerned 162 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 5: that increased migration of people from New Zealand to Australia 163 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 5: would exacerbate the housing shortage here. But they've changed their 164 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 5: gin on that at the election. They've now said that 165 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 5: they will not reverse what the Albanezy government did, So 166 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 5: that permanent residency to citizenship pathway for New Zealanders is 167 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 5: going to stay as it is now no matter which 168 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 5: party ends up. 169 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: For me governments so the. 170 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: Pair faced off for the final time in a debate 171 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 2: before Australia heads to the polls. Of course, on Saturday, 172 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 2: I saw Dustin singled out China as the biggest threat 173 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: to Australia's national security and it's not the first time 174 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: is said that as well. National security featured heavily in 175 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 2: the debate. Hey, is this something that Australians are quite 176 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: worried about? 177 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 5: I think it's definitely at the forefront of people's minds. 178 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 5: I mean not as much as possibly, to be honest, 179 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 5: that's the big, big, BIGI big thing here at the moment, 180 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 5: because I think when you can't afford to pay your rent, 181 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 5: or you can't afford to eat, or you're having to 182 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 5: take on extra shifts at work, like you haven't actually 183 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 5: really got time or the brain space to think about 184 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 5: a lot else when it comes to longer term and 185 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 5: more wide branching policies. But you're right, like it is 186 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 5: definitely on people's minds. I think it's an interesting choice 187 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 5: from Peter Dunnell to go there. And the reason that 188 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 5: I think it's an interesting choice is that the Liberals 189 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 5: are fighting really really hard to try and win a 190 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 5: seat called Ben Along which is on the North Shore 191 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,719 Speaker 5: in Sydney. It's the seat that used to belong to 192 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 5: John Howard. It was a very long serving Prime Minister 193 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 5: in Australia in the late nineties and early two thousand 194 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 5: and It's got a really substantial Chinese population and in 195 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 5: that seat it used to be a safe Liberal seat. 196 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 5: At the last election, following the Morrison governments rhetoric on China, 197 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 5: there was a huge swing among Chinese Australian voters in 198 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 5: that seat against the Coalition. I'm surprised that they're going 199 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 5: back to this sort of rhetoric so close to the election, 200 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 5: particularly when that's a seat that has the margin between 201 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 5: the two candidates They're right, if eighty four votes, it 202 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 5: is tiny. It's also one that they really need to 203 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 5: win if they want to form government. So I'm surprised 204 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 5: to see him going back to that rhetoric because I 205 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 5: would imagine that would be quite off putting, I think 206 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 5: to a number of people in that community, if last 207 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 5: elections results are anything to go by. But we'll have 208 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 5: to see. I have to see on Saturday. I'm excited. 209 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 5: I can't wait to see all of the results. 210 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 2: And I guess we can't mention the debate without mentioning 211 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: Dunn and saying the Indigenous welcome to country is overdone. 212 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 4: For the start of every meeting at work or the 213 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 4: start of a football game. I think a lot of 214 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 4: Australians think it's overdone and it cheapens the significance of 215 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 4: what it was meant to do. It divides the country. 216 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: Why has this come about? And for those who don't know, 217 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 2: what is the welcome to country? 218 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 5: So welcomes to country are when an indigenous traditional owner 219 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 5: of the country that you're on essentially does a welcome 220 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 5: and they sometimes will speak about the land that you're on. 221 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 5: They might tell you a bit about its history, about 222 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 5: their people and their relationship to that land. It happens 223 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 5: often like pretty official ceremonies, so for example, like it 224 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 5: happens at the opening of Parliament or major events, and 225 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 5: it's something that has to be done by somebody who 226 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 5: is indigenous, like so for example in Australia, either Aboriginal 227 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 5: or to Austraight islander from the land that they are 228 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 5: welcoming you to. It's different to an acknowledgment of countries. 229 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 5: So that like when someone like me who is an 230 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 5: indigenous for example, would say like, you know, I work 231 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 5: on Nunea Wall and Nambry. 232 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 1: Land in Camber. 233 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 5: And I think that's the thing about this debate that 234 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 5: has sort of gotten loss, which is that there seems 235 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 5: to be a conflation of these two things, are welcome 236 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 5: to country and an acknowledgment of country, which are very different. 237 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 5: They're not the same, but they're being conflated at the moment. 238 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 5: And so we've then seen this sort of a vowle 239 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 5: all through the last debate into Peter Dunel saying that 240 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 5: these things are overdone. Now what he's seen to be 241 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 5: actually referring to his acknowledgments of country not welcomes to country, 242 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 5: but he's using the language of welcome to country. So 243 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 5: to be honest, it's actually not entirely clear to me 244 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 5: exactly what he's talking about, but he believes that it's 245 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 5: something that is overdone in his view, for example, at 246 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 5: sans Ac Day or on planes or at football matches. 247 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 5: But that hasn't been particularly well received by a big 248 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 5: portion of the community. But at the same time, you know, 249 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 5: on the debate night at Channel seven when there was 250 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 5: a flash bowl of a group of people who've been 251 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 5: watching the debate afterwards, people did seem to really respond 252 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 5: to what he was saying. They seem to view it positively. 253 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 5: They have this thing called the false which means that 254 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 5: viewers are basically logging in real time like how they 255 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 5: feel about what a candidate is saying. And there was 256 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 5: an uptick as he was talking about it in a 257 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 5: positive direction. So it did really resonate with some people 258 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 5: as well. But it's a complicated discussion, that's for sure. 259 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 2: Australia has a lot more more independence and minor parties 260 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: than New Zealand. I read that in twenty twenty two 261 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: there were twenty four seats where they beat both Labor 262 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: and the Coalition and cross benches one fifteen of those. 263 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: In the end, it was the highest number of independent 264 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: minor party MPs elected in the modern political era. Now, 265 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: why is there such a movement towards smaller parties or 266 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: one party MPs. 267 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 5: Well, I think it's a reflective of a broader movement 268 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 5: around the world where we've seen people really moving away 269 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 5: from these major parties who were really stalwarts about political 270 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 5: system and towards people who might be in all firebrands, 271 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 5: you know, or perhaps very different sort of like to 272 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 5: position themselves as being outside of politics while simultaneously inside politics. 273 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 5: It's going to be very interesting to see if the 274 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 5: so called teal independents can maintain the momentum that they 275 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 5: had at the last election. There's a number of seats 276 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 5: where they're facing really fierce contests against growths, which it 277 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 5: looks like some of them may lose their seats, but 278 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 5: if they managed to hold on, that will be fascinating 279 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 5: because once you've had an independent who's been in normally 280 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 5: about two terms, so basically gets elected the first time 281 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 5: and then re elected from being an incumbent, they are 282 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 5: really hard to shift. And at least that's what history 283 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 5: has shown us is it's very difficult. Once they're in, 284 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 5: they're in. And what that means for the Liberal Party 285 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 5: and the coalition will broadly, but also the Parliament as 286 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 5: a whole, is that that could really change the face 287 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 5: of Australian politics for decades to come, not just the 288 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 5: next election, not just the next term, but for a 289 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 5: really long time. And so I think that's going to 290 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 5: be one of the key things to look for on 291 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 5: Saturday Night, is if they can keep those seats and 292 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 5: also grow their numbers, and. 293 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 2: We've delved into Australia's appolling rate of femicide on this 294 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: podcast before. 295 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 7: Yeah, there is a much more laser focus on the 296 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 7: issue at the moment, but we also know that within 297 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 7: a week or two this focus will die down and 298 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 7: we'll be back to the normal level of indifference from 299 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 7: many media outlets and all so many politicians. 300 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: On Albanese's promise to end violence against women in a generation, 301 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 2: what was the public's reaction to. 302 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 5: That, well, I think at the time there was a 303 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 5: lot of hope that that could happen. When the National 304 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 5: Plan was introduced, you know, there's bipartisanship, it's been a 305 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 5: long running thing. 306 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: I think there's grown to be. 307 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 5: Frustration, particularly in some sectors of the community around the 308 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 5: national Plan and whether it's working and what the actual 309 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 5: benchmarks are because within a generation is a fairly non 310 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 5: specific phrase. It's not very well defined necessarily. And we've 311 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 5: also seen here over the past few weeks while this 312 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 5: campaign has been going on, there have been a number 313 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 5: of women who've been killed and what it is to 314 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 5: be domestic violence incidents now we can't say that for 315 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 5: sure or for a lot of them, like just like 316 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 5: to add, there's a lot of questions that still need 317 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 5: to be answered. These things have to go through the courts. 318 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 5: That's not for us to say yet. But there has 319 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 5: been a lot of discussion and debate around jend Violenceustralia 320 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 5: and where the governments are doing enough. 321 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 4: Now. 322 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 5: Last year we saw a real uptic in community frustration 323 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 5: anger around this because there were again a number of 324 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 5: women who were killed, and there were a number of 325 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 5: women who were killed in a really horrible incident at 326 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 5: a shopping center here, and that really had sent shock 327 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 5: waves around the country. Since then, we've seen the government, 328 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 5: federal government but also the state government's come together and 329 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 5: put out these very you know, big packages around spending 330 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 5: and reform. But what we also saw was that following 331 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 5: the federal budget where that happened, a number of frontline 332 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 5: workers were furious and frustrated and they said that the 333 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 5: government actually wasn't following through on their rhetoric, that a 334 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 5: lot of the money that they said they allocated was 335 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 5: for things that were already being spent on. You know, 336 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 5: one person described it to us as trickery and deception. 337 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think there's any two ways around that. 338 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 5: That's pretty unambiguously clear how they felt about it. We've 339 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 5: seen some movement on the campaign around this, So we 340 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 5: saw Labor announce a package around gender violence again and 341 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 5: in this election a couple of weeks ago, which was 342 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 5: then matched and expanded by the Coalition, which is much 343 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 5: more about like tracking and things like that. So for example, 344 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 5: it has commitments around ankle bracelets and offenders or a 345 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 5: national domestic violence registry for example. And I think there's 346 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 5: a lot of experts who will have questions around how 347 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 5: this will work and what some of the unintentional flow 348 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 5: and effects as well might be. But also a lot 349 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 5: of this stuff has been welcomed as well, because I 350 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 5: think people are frustrated and angry and upset that this 351 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 5: is still happening and that it took so long, to 352 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 5: be perfectly frank, for our leaders to be asked about 353 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 5: it and for them to say anything about it. So 354 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 5: I think we shall definitely keep being an issue after 355 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 5: the election is done and we have in your government. 356 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 2: So, Claudia, how likely is it that we will know 357 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 2: who the prime minister will be on the night or 358 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 2: could we have to wait for some coalition negotiations? 359 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 5: So it looks like if the polls are anything to 360 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 5: go by, and you know, they don't tell the future, unfortunately, 361 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 5: make my job a lot easier. But it looks like 362 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 5: that we could expect a minority government or a hung parliament, 363 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 5: so that you're right, it will take time to negotiate 364 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 5: what that looks like. Now, last time this happened in 365 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 5: twenty ten, that took a few weeks, so it wasn't 366 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 5: just one had done an election night. It went for 367 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 5: quite a while and there was a lot of back 368 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 5: and forth. So typically the party that has the most 369 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 5: seats in its own rights those negotiations. But you know, 370 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 5: I mean that's not to say everyone's always going to 371 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 5: play by the rules all the time. You can expect 372 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 5: that if that does happen, there'd probably be a few 373 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 5: tear independents in the mix. But you've also got independence 374 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 5: like Ellen Haynes, who's a regional Victorian independent. You've got 375 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 5: Bob Catter as well, who's very, you know, incredibly different 376 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 5: to the Teals, and so there's a lot of different 377 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 5: interests that would be bubbling away there. It's a sort 378 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 5: of thing where you wish you could be a fly 379 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 5: on the wall to what's it all happened? 380 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Claudia, thanks for having me. That's 381 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 2: it for this episode of the Front Page. You can 382 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 2: read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at 383 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 2: enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced 384 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 2: by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also a 385 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 2: sound engineer. 386 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 387 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 388 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 2: get your podcasts 389 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: And tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.