1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:00,600 Speaker 1: Right now. 2 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 2: It's Nicola Willis the Finance Minsterlive. 3 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 3: Good evening, good evening, right. 4 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 2: I hope you had a wonderful summer. How how was 5 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 2: the beach? 6 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 3: We were blessed by the weather gods run so it 7 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 3: was really fantastic. And in fact, my twelve year old 8 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 3: said to us in the car on the way back, Mum, 9 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 3: I think this is the best summer holiday we've ever had. 10 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 3: So that's a good review. 11 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: That's very cute, very good. 12 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 2: You've had a good one then, and ready to get 13 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: into the new year. What is this the year of 14 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: by the way, because it was growth last year although 15 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: it wasn't really. 16 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: What is it this year? 17 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 3: Well? I think this is the year of growth and 18 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 3: New Zealand staying the course by re electing a national 19 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 3: lead government so that we can reap the rewards of 20 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 3: all of the hard work that collectively our country has 21 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 3: been doing. 22 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 2: So it's growth again, is that because last year didn't 23 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: I mean there wasn't much, so this year we're hoping 24 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: for more of that. 25 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, And look last year in the calendar year, the 26 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 3: economy grew as a whole. But this year we all 27 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 3: want to see more of it, see more job creation 28 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 3: more opportunities for Kiwis to get ahead. That is what 29 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 3: we want to see, and that we've fixed the basics. 30 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 3: We've put them in place now and the economy is 31 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: showing real signs of progress, and we want every key 32 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 3: family to feel that and their job security and their 33 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 3: options and their ability to grow their own nesty their 34 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 3: own income. So that's what our government's completely focused on. 35 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: And every time this happens, Trump comes out and uses 36 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: the TA word again, and then you just go, you 37 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 2: put your head in your hands and you can just 38 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 2: shut up. 39 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, look, we as a government have to focus 40 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 3: on the things we can control and not be swayed 41 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 3: by the things that are frankly outside of our control. 42 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 3: And I think New Zealanders should take some confidence from 43 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 3: the fact that relative to many other countries in the world, 44 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: we're actually pretty well placed. We're exporting food that everyone wants, 45 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 3: We've got tourists who want to come here, We've got 46 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 3: an economy that people want to invest in. So of 47 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 3: all of the countries in the world right now, many 48 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 3: of which are set by conflict and problems, we're a 49 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 3: pretty great place to be. 50 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: So why doesn't it feel like it? 51 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 3: I think that the recovery has been slower to come 52 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 3: than any of us would have wished it to be, 53 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 3: and so New Zealanders have had to hold on tight 54 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: for a long time. We had that period of really 55 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 3: high inflation and high interest rates during COVID, and everyone 56 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 3: went right, let's fix it immediately, and it has taken 57 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: some time to fix. But as we see that growth 58 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 3: that we saw in the third quarter of last year, 59 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 3: as we see businesses more confident, we've got now the 60 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 3: highest levels of business confidence since twenty fourteen. What we 61 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 3: should see is that resulting and more jobs being created, 62 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 3: more firms able to offer a pay rise, people feeling 63 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 3: more confident about spending money at their local business and 64 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 3: their local shops, and that's when growth really feels real 65 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 3: for you every day. 66 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: Look, I completely agree with you. I think we've bottomed out. 67 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: We're on the way up. This thing for no other 68 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 2: reason than what goes down must come up. 69 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: It's going to happen. It's happening. It is happening. 70 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. But I think we're always conscious that 71 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 3: it's a mixed experience. So some people will be really 72 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 3: feeling it already, others that won't have caught up with 73 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 3: them yet, and so it's one of those things that 74 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 3: it happens in a number of steps. But what we 75 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 3: want to see is more people experiencing it and feeling 76 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 3: and feeling better about their prospects and fundamentally to know 77 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 3: that we're a government is going to back them to 78 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 3: get a head and I think that's what everyone wants. 79 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: They want a chance, they want a fair opportunity, and 80 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 3: they want to know the governments on their side. 81 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: If they they're all, Hey, Arna Breman, did she give 82 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: you a heads up before signing that letter of support 83 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: for Jerome Power or did she ask you or ask 84 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 2: for advice or anything. 85 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 3: No, she didn't. She did bring me the next day 86 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: after she'd signed that statement, and I did put to her, hey, look, 87 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 3: why didn't you give me a heads up or seek 88 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 3: some advice on this? And she had felt really to 89 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 3: do so because the call that she was on where 90 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 3: she made that commitment was at three am in the morning, 91 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 3: and look, I just said to her, don't be too 92 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 3: respectful of me at three am in the morning. That 93 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 3: is literally my job to take a phone call at 94 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 3: any time. And in future she would absolutely get in 95 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: contact with me. 96 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: So She agreed with that. 97 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 2: She said, in future, I would call you, I'll check. 98 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: It and to check it with you. 99 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. And what I said to her is, look, 100 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 3: of course there's always the chance that I don't answer 101 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 3: the phone, so just send me a text and that 102 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 3: way at least I can be on to it as 103 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 3: soon as possible. 104 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: And so and what would you have see it? 105 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: I would have said, Look, I suggest that we make 106 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 3: sure that you have had the opportunity to reflect on 107 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 3: some advice from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and potentially 108 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 3: from the Treasury ultimately governor your decision. But make sure 109 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 3: that you have considered all of the relevant. 110 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 2: Advice, because I think she keeps saying and the Reserve 111 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: Bank PR people came out said the Reserve Bank is independent, 112 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: therefore we can say what we like, but independent on 113 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: monetary policy. But I mean, I think it's sort of, 114 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: as Winston said, sort of outside of her lane, her purview. 115 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 2: I would have thought on foreign affairs't it. 116 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 3: Well, Look, there's no question about the fact that New 117 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 3: Zealand supports independent monetary policy making, and we respect the 118 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 3: independence of our central bank and doing that. But as 119 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 3: you say, I think that there would have been value 120 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 3: and her considering getting input from other parts of government 121 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 3: who would have a perspective on something like this, and 122 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: I think in future she would take that advice and 123 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 3: weigh that up. 124 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 2: What is the government's view on reserve bank independence in America? 125 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 3: And Jerome Poll Well, we don't take a view on 126 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 3: other countries' domestic politics because we are of the view 127 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 3: that those are things for the American people to decide 128 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 3: and take a position on. 129 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: Did Winston tell you he was going to send that 130 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,039 Speaker 2: statement about it? 131 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 3: Yes, says office gave me your heads up. 132 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: Do you support it? 133 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 3: Look, I think the Minister of Foreign Affairs is right 134 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 3: to want to ensure that when New Zealand takes positions 135 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 3: internationally that official seek advice from the Ministry of Foreign 136 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 3: Affairs before doing so. 137 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:18,799 Speaker 2: What's going to be the thing that saves your budget 138 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: this year? Because last time it was, arguably, David Seymour 139 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: said the pay equity thing. Can you give us a 140 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: sense of where you're targeting this year? 141 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 3: Well, we will continue to make sure that we're making 142 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 3: savings on government programs or activities that aren't having the 143 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 3: impact that was expected from them, so that we can 144 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 3: then take that funding and put it into the frontline 145 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 3: services which we know need more funding. So that's our 146 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 3: health service, that's our schools, that's our police. We're going 147 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 3: to have to put more funding in there. So we're 148 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 3: looking across government for where are some of the areas 149 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 3: where the money isn't doing as good a job as 150 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 3: it could do in our hospitals, our classrooms, on the 151 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 3: front line with our cops, and so we're looking for 152 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 3: savings across the board. And I'll have more to say 153 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 3: about that obviously between now and the budget. 154 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: Have you identified a big ticket item that you will target. 155 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 3: Look, the process that we run is we identify lots 156 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 3: of options and I've described them as medium sized options, 157 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 3: and then we do the work. We look at, Okay, 158 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 3: what would the impacts of that be, what would that mean, 159 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 3: who with that impact and how, And we don't make 160 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 3: decisions at this stage until we've got the full set 161 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 3: of options in front of us and we can weigh 162 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 3: it up. And then as a cabinet we make the 163 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 3: commitment to what we're going to spend, what we're going 164 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 3: to save, and what the overall budget looks like. 165 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: And we're just not the spending priorities. There is talk 166 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: today about FARMAC funding weight loss drugs. Have you got 167 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 2: advice on how much that might cost? Do you think 168 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: that is a good idea? 169 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 3: Well, I haven't taken advice on that. But as you know, 170 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 3: the way that New Zealand's FARMAC model works is that 171 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 3: FARMAC make independent decisions about which medicines they fund based 172 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 3: on what will have the biggest impact for New Zealanders' 173 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 3: lives and health. And so famously you'll recall when we 174 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 3: had the cancer drug commitment. In order to have FARMAC 175 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 3: fund all of those cancer drugs, we had to fund 176 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 3: a number of other drugs as well, because they have 177 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 3: a list and they rank medicines and order of what 178 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: will have the most impact, and they work through that 179 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: list and they do that independently. But look, the case 180 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 3: in terms of medicine's increasing role in reducing the prevalence 181 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 3: of diabetes and obesity is clearly a global phenomenon that 182 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 3: I'd expect FARMAC to be monitoring very closely. 183 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 2: It's one of our biggest health costs and contributors to 184 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 2: the cost of the health system is obesity. So surely 185 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 2: anything we can do to turn the title and that 186 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 2: would have massive benefits for us. 187 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, look that's right, and FARMAC will be I am 188 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 3: sure looking at that and weighing out what would the 189 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 3: positive impacts of that be for New Zealanders and the 190 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 3: health system versus, for example, funding some of the other 191 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 3: medicines that New Zealanders are crying out for, whether that's 192 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 3: medicines for blood cancers in particular or other treatments where 193 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 3: people can see there would be significant benefits. So that's 194 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 3: their job to do it with an independent formula to 195 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 3: analyze it properly, rather than politicians waiting in and deciding 196 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 3: what we think is flavor of the month. 197 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: Appreciate your time, minister. Thank you. 198 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 2: That is Nicola Willis, the Finance Minister. 199 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to 200 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: news 201 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: Talks the'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the 202 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: podcast on iHeartRadio