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Speaker 1: For Politics Wednesday. Mark Mitchell's with us along with Duncan Web.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to both of you. Now, Dunk and I

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Speaker 1: believe this is your first time ever on the program.

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Speaker 1: Is that would this be immediately a political highlight for you?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: So let's wait and find out, right, Let's see how

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Speaker 3: we go.

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Speaker 1: Well, a lot of it's see the balls, a lot

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Speaker 1: of it's in your court. So I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: all I can do is wish you the very best

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Speaker 1: with it. Let's start with us while I start with you, Duncan,

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Speaker 1: Darlene Taner, what's your advice to her?

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Speaker 3: Pack your bags? Yeah, I mean, she wasn't voted and

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Speaker 3: as an electorate MP, no one actually voted for her.

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Speaker 3: She came in on the Green ticket. The Greens don't

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Speaker 3: want her. She shouldn't be an MP anymore. It's pretty

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Speaker 3: it's actually pretty simple. She's got no mandate and the

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Speaker 3: Greens have thrown her out and they're entitled to do that.

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Speaker 3: Had she been an electorate IMP, it might have been

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Speaker 3: a little bit different. But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: no one voted for her. You know, leave with dignity,

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Speaker 3: find something else to do.

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Speaker 1: What's your advice to Chloe then these have the walker

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Speaker 1: jumping if she has to.

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Speaker 3: Use it, well, they've got themselves in a spot right

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Speaker 3: because they've fiercely opposed the waker jumping legislation before. Chloe

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Speaker 3: hasn't been front and center of that, and there has

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Speaker 3: been a significant change in leadership with her coming in.

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Speaker 3: But you've got to look ask at the Greens if

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Speaker 3: you know, only a couple of years ago, they were

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Speaker 3: screaming blue murder that this was a cravesty, and all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden they're dipping into the back pocket and

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Speaker 3: getting out the walker jumping legislation exactly.

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Speaker 1: So what's your advice, Mike?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, Duncan summed it up very well as a lawyer. Look,

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Speaker 2: I think she should have gone. I think she should

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Speaker 2: design for executive reasons that Duncan has outlined, and I

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Speaker 2: actually think, to be honest with you, I think Chloe's handled

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Speaker 2: quite well. But they are in a difficult position around

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Speaker 2: the what we Jumping bill without a doubt because they

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Speaker 2: were so vehement in their opposition to that.

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Speaker 1: How has she handled it well? When one she hasn't

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Speaker 1: released the report or anything close to it, and b

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Speaker 1: she hasn't invoked the answer that she could have if

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Speaker 1: she wanted to invoke the answer.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think just initially, like she was very clear

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Speaker 2: about when she came out and sort of dealt with

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Speaker 2: the issue in her own comms. But yes, I agree

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Speaker 2: with you is there's got to be a level of

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Speaker 2: transparency around that. There's been a commitment to releasing the

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Speaker 2: report or at least part of the report, so you

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Speaker 2: know the expectations that has to happen now. But they

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Speaker 2: look they are in a difficult place without a doubt,

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Speaker 2: turn to the party she chooses to stay or they're

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Speaker 2: talking about maybe she could join the party, Mary Party.

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Speaker 2: I think that they're going to have. The only option

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Speaker 2: over to them is too in fact that what could

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Speaker 2: jumping bill all right?

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Speaker 1: Second issue for you, dunk and then is the business

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Speaker 1: of Shane Jones and the dinner in the West Coast,

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Speaker 1: the sniff test, whether it should have been in the

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Speaker 1: ministerial diary, the fact that wasn't. Then it was, then

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Speaker 1: it was last minute, then it wasn't. Do we have

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Speaker 1: a scandal here or not?

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Speaker 3: Oh well it smells it smells dodgy to me. The

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Speaker 3: lack of transparency is a real concern and the idea,

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Speaker 3: as you say, you know, it wasn't in the diary,

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Speaker 3: and then it was it was last minute. Oh no,

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Speaker 3: my officials organized it four days before. He knew he

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Speaker 3: was going to have dinner with those people. At some

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Speaker 3: point he certainly knew that he had dinner with them.

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Speaker 3: And then for it not to appear in the diary,

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Speaker 3: you know, And it's really important who who it was.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't some minor person with a grit. These are

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Speaker 3: mining lobbyists and they've got something to say and they

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Speaker 3: want to influence one of the ministers who has the

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Speaker 3: most power and respect of this and to suggest it was,

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Speaker 3: you know, it was just a few beers in a stake,

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Speaker 3: just doesn't cut it.

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Speaker 2: What do you reckon, Mike, There's an old sign that's

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Speaker 2: conspiracy or cockup, and it's normally a cockup. And this

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Speaker 2: is I bet Josie's already come out and said yet,

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Speaker 2: but it should have been in the diary. The diary

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Speaker 2: has been corrected, you know. But to be honest with that,

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Speaker 2: lab will be trying to make some sort of conspiracy

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Speaker 2: out of it that they know very well that it's

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Speaker 2: moving place. When you're a minister in terms of meetings

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Speaker 2: and things that can happen often on the run. I've

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Speaker 2: been out of the office for three days around the country,

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Speaker 2: things crop up. So as long as it gets in

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Speaker 2: the diary and it's recorded, which it has to be

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Speaker 2: ministerial accountability. But I think that absolutely it would be

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Speaker 2: more a cock up and expiracy.

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Speaker 1: Do you is it says here in the email that

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Speaker 1: was sent out from his office to the people to

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Speaker 1: the dinner, It says, this is an informal dinner and

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Speaker 1: it would be appreciated if you could pick up your

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Speaker 1: share of the costs of you attend. Is that standard practice?

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Speaker 2: Mark? I don't know. I mean, I think it's probably

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Speaker 2: a good practice for stating very clearly that the minister

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Speaker 2: and the text Park is not going to be picking

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Speaker 2: up the ted if they want to take up the

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Speaker 2: offer of a meeting. It's probably It's not something that

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Speaker 2: I've probably done in emails, but you know, in some

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Speaker 2: ways it's probably a good idea and making it very

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Speaker 2: clear that test was not picking up the tear.

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Speaker 1: What about you, Duncan, when you invited all those consultants

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Speaker 1: on light rail, did you pay well? Do they pay?

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Speaker 3: What happened there wasn't a big one for having fancy dinners.

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Speaker 3: But actually, as I understand it, it's pretty common too

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Speaker 3: if you ever dinner, like particularly an informal one, not

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Speaker 3: come some state occasion to say, oh look at you

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Speaker 3: know you pick up pay your own way. I mean

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Speaker 3: it is a good thing because the taxpayer doesn't want

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Speaker 3: to be paying dinners of ministers in their mates as

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Speaker 3: they meet and talk about minding Duncan.

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Speaker 1: Early feedback from the text You interested in feedback? You

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Speaker 1: go on, okay, well here in his first reecoming and

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Speaker 1: more of Duncan. Mike much better. Mike Duncan's far better

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Speaker 1: than Ginny Kicker to the touch is Duncan. We'b actually

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Speaker 1: from the Labor Party seems to actually answer your question

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Speaker 1: straighten with some knowledge. Surely not from the left.

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Speaker 3: There you go, Oh, I see, I said it was

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Speaker 3: going to be a disaster. I'm going to get thrown

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Speaker 3: out of the Labor corcuse that.

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Speaker 1: We're a bigger caucus. Put it that way. Hey, Mark,

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Speaker 1: can I criticize you on this retail crime thing that

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Speaker 1: you announced while I was on holiday last week? Oh,

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Speaker 1: he's just dropped off. He's gone. How convenient did he

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Speaker 1: drop off? When I used guys can I criticize you. No,

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Speaker 1: he's back with us, Mark you with us.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, yes, sorry, I'm driving to a podkin. I explained

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Speaker 2: to Sean that I just said to keep moving because

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Speaker 2: I'm reading the police. They like boys of details for Sorry.

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Speaker 1: About that nowherries at all. Well, I was going to say,

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Speaker 1: this advisory group on retail crime that you announced while

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Speaker 1: I was away on holiday two years to come up

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Speaker 1: with ideas on crime, give me a break. What's that about.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's just the reality is we felt was we

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Speaker 2: felt that was really important to give the people that

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Speaker 2: are queue the hammers the hits. They have a threat

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Speaker 2: and formal relationship with the government. They can do a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of worker and policy stuff, and you know,

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Speaker 2: with throwing the kitchen sink and everything we can at

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Speaker 2: getting on top of the barn and crime. I've got

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Speaker 2: an important voice. Sonny Kelsher himself has put so much

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Speaker 2: energy in his own time into being a strong voice

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Speaker 2: and eificate and a lot of work policy as well.

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Speaker 2: I just think that's a very good move.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, Sonny Kusher is a very good move. But

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Speaker 1: he's already got the ideas because he's been banging on

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Speaker 1: about it. For years, So it just it looks like

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Speaker 1: a pass a government move whereby your set up a

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Speaker 1: committee for two years, you get your biggest critic to

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Speaker 1: head it. So he shuts up and he's on board,

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Speaker 1: and it looks like a jack up.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: Look, there's certainly no expectation that he can't criticize and

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Speaker 2: hold the government to account. In fact, that's part of

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Speaker 2: the role of this board is to do exactly that.

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Speaker 2: And I think that yes, he has developed some good

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Speaker 2: policy that needs a lot of refine. It needs a

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Speaker 2: lot of work because we're in a really difficult sensitive areas,

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Speaker 2: but we have to do something, and we felt that

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Speaker 2: it was really important that people are getting hammers put

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Speaker 2: through the head on front line. They've actually recognized and

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Speaker 2: actually got a formal way to engage with the government.

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Speaker 1: Can you criticize it, Duncan? I mean it sets up

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Speaker 1: I mean the story yesterday retailers, the impact of more

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Speaker 1: officers on patrol in the Auckland CBD, it seems to

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Speaker 1: be working well.

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Speaker 3: The working group Redail Crime is tough, right, we learned that,

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Speaker 3: we learned it the hard way. Setting up a two

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Speaker 3: year working group isn't actually addressing the issue. Itself and

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Speaker 3: a two year timeline. I mean it must be. It's

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Speaker 3: almost insulting to the retailers, right, say, hang around, we'll

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Speaker 3: get some advice in two years time and get back

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Speaker 3: to you. What I mean, very heads to.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's not it's not it's not a too long,

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Speaker 2: it's not two years timeline because of advice, and advice

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Speaker 2: will be coming and working straight away. And I just

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Speaker 2: think if you get out there and you talk to

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Speaker 2: the retailers, they will be very clear with you, and

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Speaker 2: they'll tell you they support this, especially the shopkeepers are

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Speaker 2: on the front line. Go and talk to people who

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Speaker 2: of course had a hammer fut through us. You know,

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Speaker 2: a few weeks ago you're telling you police supportive of this.

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Speaker 3: We certainly agree. We certainly agree that the voice victims

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Speaker 3: and the people who are on the receiving end of

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Speaker 3: these crimes is really important. But a working group is

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Speaker 3: you know, we're we're skeptical, but you know, good luck

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Speaker 3: if it makes progress, that's a good thing.

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Speaker 2: But I'm I'm not sure why you skiptical moving groups

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Speaker 2: because you've put a bit of.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah yeah, but I'm skeptical, Mike, and I never

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Speaker 1: set up a working group in my life.

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Speaker 2: No, So I guess we'll just have to prove that

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Speaker 2: this is actually a very prove move in terms of

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Speaker 2: formalizing our a lationship with to come up with the people.

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Speaker 3: But it's just really it's really unclear what particular policing

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Speaker 3: or just ae strategies this working group has to come

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Speaker 3: up with. Yes, the voice is victims is important, but

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Speaker 3: you know what, do you think, what are they going

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Speaker 3: to come? Don't diminish, don't demostic, capability to develop policies,

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Speaker 3: don't and.

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Speaker 1: They development a question. I mean, we know what the

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Speaker 1: problem with retail crime is. Sonny Kershel has been on

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Speaker 1: this program dozens of times. He's got the answers, you know,

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Speaker 1: use the power of arrest, give security guards more power,

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Speaker 1: all of those sort of things. It's not like we're,

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Speaker 1: you know, in a science lab trying to find some

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Speaker 1: sort of solution. We know what the solutions are. Get tougher,

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Speaker 1: put people in jail, cracked down.

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Speaker 2: Let's let's with the police and portfolio. And that's exactly

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Speaker 2: what I'm doing. But there's a lot of rooks to

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Speaker 2: be done around working working with the retail sector, with

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Speaker 2: the security industry. There's a lot of work to be

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Speaker 2: done around legislation in policy and they need to be

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Speaker 2: part of it in a formal lifeoice as part of it.

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Speaker 1: Duncan have you read Richard Prebble's article in the Herald

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Speaker 1: this morning?

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Speaker 3: I haven't managed to read that. You have to give

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Speaker 3: me a synopsis.

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Speaker 1: Okay. The headline is can Barbara Edmonds save labor? Question mark?

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Speaker 1: What do you reckon?

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Speaker 2: Can she?

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Speaker 3: Oh? It's fantastic and she's got an amazing ability to

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Speaker 3: capture things in a nutshell. She's got huge skills around

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Speaker 3: the finance portfolio. But you know, the job of putting

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Speaker 3: labor back into government as a job for every single MVM.

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Speaker 3: We've all got a job to do. It's a team effort, right,

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Speaker 3: But Barbara's going to do a fantastic job.

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Speaker 1: It is premised on the idea you need to shovel

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Speaker 1: hipkins along the way. What do you reckon?

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Speaker 3: I think Chippy's doing a great job. He's understood that

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Speaker 3: we lost the last election. We've got to have a reset.

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Speaker 3: And you know, one of the challenges now is that

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Speaker 3: we're not coming out and saying here's the answers one, two, three,

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Speaker 3: because we've been told that we didn't have the answers

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Speaker 3: and we've got to find new ones. So that's what

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Speaker 3: we're all doing. We're all traveling around the country talking

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Speaker 3: to people and developing new policies which are going to

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Speaker 3: address these big issues that we've been talking about.

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Speaker 1: Hey, listen, I appreciate your time very much. Duncan, Mark,

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Speaker 1: you're in that particular part of the world. Have you

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Speaker 1: got more announcements coming today and mes kpe Wairoa or

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Speaker 1: all of that or what.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm down with Pokey. I'm meeting with you. We

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Speaker 2: leaders and meet but on first meetings with the police

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Speaker 2: because we had the Mungol mob turn and roll into

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Speaker 2: town a few weeks ago and the police ran a

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Speaker 2: very good operation and made sure that they let the

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Speaker 2: town know that the police are running the place. I've

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Speaker 2: got the Mungol mob because the last time they did it,

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Speaker 2: schools were closed and there's all sorts of evics. So

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say thank you to thank you to

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Speaker 2: them for the work that they're doing in.

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Speaker 1: The world at East can't you can't argue with the

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Speaker 1: fact he doesn't get out and about Mark Mitchell. Duncan

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Speaker 1: Webb politis Wednesday for more from the Mic asking Breakfast,

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Speaker 1: Listen live to news talks it'd be from six am weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio