1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,427 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,747 Speaker 1: from Newstalk zed B. 3 00:00:12,667 --> 00:00:15,747 Speaker 2: England have opted to retain former New Zealand captain Brendan 4 00:00:15,827 --> 00:00:19,307 Speaker 2: McCullum as their test cricket coach despite a four to 5 00:00:19,307 --> 00:00:23,347 Speaker 2: one Ashes defeat and growing debate around the direction of 6 00:00:23,467 --> 00:00:26,787 Speaker 2: the team. To break down the reasoning behind keeping Brendan 7 00:00:26,867 --> 00:00:28,867 Speaker 2: McCullum and the job and what it means for England 8 00:00:28,867 --> 00:00:32,147 Speaker 2: cricket going forward, we're joined now by best selling author 9 00:00:32,307 --> 00:00:36,067 Speaker 2: and cricket writer with The Telegraph, Tim Wigmore. Tim, thanks 10 00:00:36,067 --> 00:00:39,307 Speaker 2: for joining us. You've written a piece entitled Case for 11 00:00:39,387 --> 00:00:44,347 Speaker 2: the Defense How Brendan McCullum can reinvigorate England, and it 12 00:00:44,427 --> 00:00:48,907 Speaker 2: opens by calling Brendan McCullum perhaps the luckiest man in 13 00:00:49,027 --> 00:00:52,467 Speaker 2: English cricket. Can you start, perhaps by expanding on that 14 00:00:52,547 --> 00:00:54,347 Speaker 2: for us? Yeah? 15 00:00:54,387 --> 00:00:54,987 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 16 00:00:55,067 --> 00:00:58,187 Speaker 4: Yeah, so, I think I mean the first kind of 17 00:00:58,227 --> 00:01:01,747 Speaker 4: the biggest reason that McCollum has stayed like being pragmatic 18 00:01:01,747 --> 00:01:05,027 Speaker 4: and honest is money. Basically, he's on a million pounds 19 00:01:05,067 --> 00:01:07,147 Speaker 4: a year, which is just over maybe when we understand, 20 00:01:07,187 --> 00:01:09,147 Speaker 4: which is obviously a lot. And and then you had 21 00:01:09,187 --> 00:01:11,827 Speaker 4: obviously his his sort of coaching staff and the team, 22 00:01:12,747 --> 00:01:15,907 Speaker 4: and then you have, okay, would we actually get anyone better? 23 00:01:15,947 --> 00:01:17,867 Speaker 4: And I think I think there's an argument that actually, 24 00:01:18,387 --> 00:01:21,547 Speaker 4: maybe yeah, Ingland probably probably shouldn't have given him the 25 00:01:21,627 --> 00:01:24,147 Speaker 4: keys to the whole castle, I being in charge of 26 00:01:24,147 --> 00:01:26,627 Speaker 4: all three teams rather than just the testing as he started. 27 00:01:26,947 --> 00:01:29,267 Speaker 3: But having done that, actually that was one mistake. 28 00:01:29,307 --> 00:01:30,707 Speaker 4: It could still be a different mistake to get rid 29 00:01:30,707 --> 00:01:33,907 Speaker 4: of him now without guarantees of getting a better man. 30 00:01:33,547 --> 00:01:36,307 Speaker 4: And you know that money maybe could be better spent 31 00:01:36,347 --> 00:01:38,667 Speaker 4: else elsewhere. And that's the kind of pragmatic case I 32 00:01:38,707 --> 00:01:41,947 Speaker 4: mean in terms of and the realcity as well, is 33 00:01:41,947 --> 00:01:44,467 Speaker 4: you need to be paying to get a top notch 34 00:01:44,547 --> 00:01:47,907 Speaker 4: other coach. You need to be probably kind of find 35 00:01:47,947 --> 00:01:51,387 Speaker 4: a way to match ipl salaries or or give your 36 00:01:51,507 --> 00:01:53,307 Speaker 4: lap let someone coach in the ok as well, So 37 00:01:53,347 --> 00:01:54,987 Speaker 4: that would be difficult way. Andrew Flowers a guy who 38 00:01:54,987 --> 00:01:56,387 Speaker 4: has talked about who was inc and coach before and 39 00:01:56,427 --> 00:01:59,307 Speaker 4: did very well, So that that is probably that that's 40 00:01:59,307 --> 00:01:59,707 Speaker 4: where you. 41 00:01:59,667 --> 00:02:01,347 Speaker 3: Have to start with the reasons for why Mcondum is 42 00:02:01,387 --> 00:02:02,387 Speaker 3: still in his position. 43 00:02:02,587 --> 00:02:06,147 Speaker 2: So this is a financial pragmatic decision rather than a 44 00:02:06,147 --> 00:02:07,627 Speaker 2: crew getting decision. 45 00:02:08,707 --> 00:02:10,467 Speaker 3: So no, so that the fighters are a big part 46 00:02:10,467 --> 00:02:11,747 Speaker 3: of it, but it's not the only part of it. 47 00:02:11,827 --> 00:02:15,427 Speaker 4: I'd say, if you kind of look at mcarmeningen, so 48 00:02:15,627 --> 00:02:19,427 Speaker 4: he's won twenty six tests, lost eighteen. They did pretty 49 00:02:19,427 --> 00:02:21,507 Speaker 4: well in the two twenty World Cup, got to the Semis. 50 00:02:21,507 --> 00:02:24,267 Speaker 4: They were not incredible, but they'd be very okay. You know, 51 00:02:24,747 --> 00:02:26,547 Speaker 4: it's a better record than had in the previous four 52 00:02:26,627 --> 00:02:28,907 Speaker 4: year cycle when they were one to May two, lost twenty, 53 00:02:29,067 --> 00:02:31,467 Speaker 4: So he has done better than they had done before. 54 00:02:31,587 --> 00:02:35,067 Speaker 4: Albeit that kind of graph has been taking downwards clearly 55 00:02:35,187 --> 00:02:37,107 Speaker 4: over the last last couple of years, actually since twenty 56 00:02:37,107 --> 00:02:40,427 Speaker 4: twenty four when they lost four in India, which obviously is 57 00:02:40,827 --> 00:02:42,787 Speaker 4: KIVS World three, not India that same year, so that 58 00:02:42,827 --> 00:02:45,227 Speaker 4: does actually show that result everyone's everyone loses India, but 59 00:02:45,267 --> 00:02:46,267 Speaker 4: maybe they don't anymore. 60 00:02:47,187 --> 00:02:49,227 Speaker 3: So the last last few years have been has. 61 00:02:49,107 --> 00:02:53,027 Speaker 4: Been pretty it's been underwhelming, but there were kind of 62 00:02:54,307 --> 00:02:55,907 Speaker 4: in the World Cup two twenty World Cup there were 63 00:02:55,907 --> 00:02:58,187 Speaker 4: signs of change. Eng actually had a fielding coach for 64 00:02:58,227 --> 00:03:00,707 Speaker 4: the which they hadn't had before revolutionary step, I know, 65 00:03:00,827 --> 00:03:04,627 Speaker 4: but it kind of worked and they fielded better and 66 00:03:04,667 --> 00:03:08,307 Speaker 4: I think now they're going to basically before the setup 67 00:03:08,307 --> 00:03:11,507 Speaker 4: has been about really everyone has sort of been on 68 00:03:11,547 --> 00:03:13,707 Speaker 4: the same page completely as McCallum, and I think there 69 00:03:13,707 --> 00:03:16,307 Speaker 4: has been kind of a group think if you like 70 00:03:16,387 --> 00:03:19,027 Speaker 4: where everyone has been. There's not really been a challenging 71 00:03:19,067 --> 00:03:21,587 Speaker 4: decision in sort of dissenting voices and stuff. Now there's 72 00:03:21,627 --> 00:03:23,827 Speaker 4: going to be a new selector who's going to be 73 00:03:24,147 --> 00:03:26,587 Speaker 4: I think, quite a prominent figure and a kind of 74 00:03:26,587 --> 00:03:31,067 Speaker 4: independent thiure crucially and as I sort of argued that 75 00:03:31,067 --> 00:03:34,707 Speaker 4: that new selector needs to be there, not like actually 76 00:03:34,827 --> 00:03:36,547 Speaker 4: it needs to be needs to be there because he'll 77 00:03:36,587 --> 00:03:39,147 Speaker 4: challenge McCallum and say, you know, maybe Zach Carwy shouldn't 78 00:03:39,147 --> 00:03:41,387 Speaker 4: have been or whatever, and so you don't have the 79 00:03:41,467 --> 00:03:44,187 Speaker 4: sort of default I think. I think that the issue is, 80 00:03:44,347 --> 00:03:46,507 Speaker 4: like mccalmum actually has. I don't think he should change 81 00:03:46,547 --> 00:03:49,227 Speaker 4: really because he is what he is and he's actually 82 00:03:49,307 --> 00:03:52,707 Speaker 4: very good at certain aspects in terms of the relaxing 83 00:03:52,787 --> 00:03:55,627 Speaker 4: vibe and the culture and everything. But the issue is 84 00:03:55,867 --> 00:03:58,587 Speaker 4: there's not really been people focusing on the other strangers. 85 00:03:58,627 --> 00:04:01,107 Speaker 4: This sort of attention to detail the playing war is 86 00:04:01,107 --> 00:04:03,067 Speaker 4: apt to be in stuff. So you know, I would say, 87 00:04:03,147 --> 00:04:04,827 Speaker 4: if you can keep McCallum to focus on what because 88 00:04:04,827 --> 00:04:06,227 Speaker 4: he's never going to be the guy who goes to 89 00:04:06,707 --> 00:04:09,187 Speaker 4: four days of county cricket we can week out when 90 00:04:09,187 --> 00:04:10,347 Speaker 4: it literally is in New Ze and so he can't 91 00:04:10,347 --> 00:04:11,667 Speaker 4: do that anyway, you know what I mean, Like that's 92 00:04:11,747 --> 00:04:14,387 Speaker 4: that's just not that's that's a different coach. So Inger 93 00:04:14,467 --> 00:04:16,467 Speaker 4: need to kind of work out what what is McComb 94 00:04:16,547 --> 00:04:18,587 Speaker 4: good at and also what's he not good at and 95 00:04:18,747 --> 00:04:21,347 Speaker 4: actually compensate with those strengths. And they haven't really been 96 00:04:21,387 --> 00:04:23,627 Speaker 4: doing the kind of looking what he's not good at 97 00:04:23,787 --> 00:04:25,547 Speaker 4: until now, and if and if they do that, I 98 00:04:25,547 --> 00:04:27,787 Speaker 4: think there's still a there's still chance going forward. I mean, 99 00:04:27,787 --> 00:04:29,867 Speaker 4: his relationship with Ben So's is still pretty good, even 100 00:04:29,867 --> 00:04:32,707 Speaker 4: though toutterly they were a bit unline during the ashes 101 00:04:32,707 --> 00:04:34,507 Speaker 4: with Stokes wanted to play a bit more old school 102 00:04:34,507 --> 00:04:38,067 Speaker 4: Test cricket actually, but mcam's lationship with Harry Brook, who's 103 00:04:38,107 --> 00:04:40,547 Speaker 4: the White or captain and really future Test captain, is 104 00:04:40,747 --> 00:04:42,907 Speaker 4: really outstanding, almost better than his relationship with Stokes. 105 00:04:42,907 --> 00:04:44,947 Speaker 3: So that's another reason to kind of keep him as well. 106 00:04:45,027 --> 00:04:47,707 Speaker 4: So there are some some like positive reasons to keep 107 00:04:47,787 --> 00:04:50,587 Speaker 4: him before that aren't just about saving saving money, even 108 00:04:50,627 --> 00:04:51,627 Speaker 4: though that is important. 109 00:04:51,947 --> 00:04:54,307 Speaker 2: You're also pointed out in your pace that Brendan McCallum 110 00:04:54,387 --> 00:04:58,027 Speaker 2: revitalized senior players like Johnny Bearstow, like James Anderson, likes 111 00:04:58,067 --> 00:05:01,787 Speaker 2: Stuart Broad So what does that say about his ability 112 00:05:01,907 --> 00:05:05,227 Speaker 2: to manage a lot of different personalities. 113 00:05:07,227 --> 00:05:09,307 Speaker 4: So I think the interesting thing is, like, so that 114 00:05:09,347 --> 00:05:10,907 Speaker 4: was kind of coming out of a period of covid 115 00:05:10,987 --> 00:05:13,507 Speaker 4: in also playing very negative before, and it was given 116 00:05:13,547 --> 00:05:16,267 Speaker 4: these guys in their thirties a new lease of life. Really, 117 00:05:17,547 --> 00:05:21,187 Speaker 4: maybe the bigger unknown is for newer players who don't 118 00:05:21,227 --> 00:05:25,187 Speaker 4: have that kind of body of work to lean back on. 119 00:05:25,267 --> 00:05:26,027 Speaker 3: How that sits. 120 00:05:26,027 --> 00:05:27,987 Speaker 4: So with Jamie Smith, for example, he'd made a really 121 00:05:27,987 --> 00:05:29,787 Speaker 4: good start of his career, he suddenly got Australia and 122 00:05:29,827 --> 00:05:32,027 Speaker 4: was really really lost. Ben Folks, who was the four 123 00:05:32,027 --> 00:05:34,387 Speaker 4: Wicky he has talked about, actually he didn't like not 124 00:05:34,387 --> 00:05:36,147 Speaker 4: having a wicket keeping coach because Folks is a guy 125 00:05:36,147 --> 00:05:37,907 Speaker 4: who liked to do a lot of training, which is 126 00:05:37,947 --> 00:05:38,507 Speaker 4: fair enough, and I. 127 00:05:38,467 --> 00:05:39,467 Speaker 3: Think that's been a sense that. 128 00:05:41,307 --> 00:05:44,267 Speaker 4: England Pick and McCollum favors guys who are similar approach 129 00:05:44,267 --> 00:05:46,907 Speaker 4: to him, which is don't train too much. Have have 130 00:05:46,987 --> 00:05:49,507 Speaker 4: quite a chill mindset and actually no, that's fair enough 131 00:05:49,467 --> 00:05:52,187 Speaker 4: to an extent, but you want a variety of voices 132 00:05:52,307 --> 00:05:54,547 Speaker 4: and approaches and to be open to those. There was 133 00:05:54,707 --> 00:05:56,947 Speaker 4: I mean it was Ben Stokes at one point said 134 00:05:57,107 --> 00:05:59,587 Speaker 4: if Asked cook had been around, he wouldn't have been 135 00:05:59,627 --> 00:06:02,067 Speaker 4: in the England team, which is remarkable given you know, 136 00:06:02,467 --> 00:06:04,747 Speaker 4: cookers in his second top ron score of all time. 137 00:06:04,787 --> 00:06:06,827 Speaker 4: Of course he doesn't playing at a basball way. But 138 00:06:06,867 --> 00:06:09,067 Speaker 4: you're saying Zach Crawley is a better test players asked 139 00:06:09,107 --> 00:06:10,987 Speaker 4: than ask It's crazy to say that. 140 00:06:11,267 --> 00:06:13,547 Speaker 3: So there was this kind of dog this dogmatic approach. 141 00:06:13,587 --> 00:06:17,227 Speaker 4: I think, yeah, I think with younger players who you know, 142 00:06:17,307 --> 00:06:20,867 Speaker 4: haven't been to these these these tourments before, they probably 143 00:06:20,907 --> 00:06:23,667 Speaker 4: do need some bit more technical support than so that 144 00:06:23,667 --> 00:06:25,547 Speaker 4: Adison and Broad did best so did late in their 145 00:06:25,547 --> 00:06:27,507 Speaker 4: careers and actually be able to provide that as well. 146 00:06:27,907 --> 00:06:30,427 Speaker 4: And that, But that was said like so the character 147 00:06:30,427 --> 00:06:34,027 Speaker 4: of ing team has changed, you know, Jacob Bethel, Harry Brooke, 148 00:06:35,787 --> 00:06:36,387 Speaker 4: Jamie Smith. 149 00:06:36,427 --> 00:06:38,587 Speaker 3: That's three of the top seven. I think he will 150 00:06:38,627 --> 00:06:39,827 Speaker 3: be maintained for a long time. 151 00:06:39,907 --> 00:06:41,787 Speaker 4: Have all didn't none of none of may the days 152 00:06:41,747 --> 00:06:44,667 Speaker 4: of former columb took over and the bowling attack has 153 00:06:44,707 --> 00:06:47,827 Speaker 4: also changed, you know, Brydon Cass, Josh Chung, Gus Atkinson. 154 00:06:47,867 --> 00:06:49,627 Speaker 4: I think that obviously the question is whether they will 155 00:06:49,627 --> 00:06:51,427 Speaker 4: be able to maintain the kind of level of Adamson 156 00:06:51,507 --> 00:06:54,187 Speaker 4: broad and works before who was not the big a 157 00:06:54,227 --> 00:06:56,147 Speaker 4: big loss. So it's a different team and I think 158 00:06:56,147 --> 00:06:58,227 Speaker 4: it will quite a different style of coaching. 159 00:06:58,307 --> 00:06:58,707 Speaker 3: I think. 160 00:06:58,867 --> 00:07:00,227 Speaker 4: I think when he came in and there was an 161 00:07:00,227 --> 00:07:03,147 Speaker 4: old quite an old team, the kind of shackles off 162 00:07:03,147 --> 00:07:06,307 Speaker 4: approach had a real it just really galvanized them, the 163 00:07:06,347 --> 00:07:10,027 Speaker 4: players completely. But I'm not sure you can kind of 164 00:07:10,027 --> 00:07:11,867 Speaker 4: come in and have a ten year career with that 165 00:07:11,907 --> 00:07:14,507 Speaker 4: being the only approach that you that you have. 166 00:07:14,627 --> 00:07:20,667 Speaker 2: Really, if you polled English cricket fans what percentage would 167 00:07:20,667 --> 00:07:22,667 Speaker 2: have voted for change. 168 00:07:23,867 --> 00:07:26,907 Speaker 3: It would have been wouldn't have been as close as Brexit, 169 00:07:26,987 --> 00:07:27,387 Speaker 3: That's for sure. 170 00:07:27,427 --> 00:07:29,827 Speaker 4: Would have been a slide against the color And I'm 171 00:07:29,827 --> 00:07:32,467 Speaker 4: afraid there's no doubt about that. In fact, I look 172 00:07:32,507 --> 00:07:35,707 Speaker 4: at the poll in the Telegraph, did Key and Ben 173 00:07:35,747 --> 00:07:37,987 Speaker 4: McCallum Rocky deserves to keep their jobs? 174 00:07:38,347 --> 00:07:39,507 Speaker 3: Ninety percent said no. 175 00:07:40,187 --> 00:07:43,467 Speaker 2: Wow, Well it answers the question, then, doesn't it answers 176 00:07:43,467 --> 00:07:46,267 Speaker 2: the question? So well, there be any blowback, then here's 177 00:07:46,307 --> 00:07:49,147 Speaker 2: there been any blowback? Will support for the English cricket 178 00:07:49,187 --> 00:07:51,707 Speaker 2: team suffer as a result of this decision. 179 00:07:53,187 --> 00:07:53,747 Speaker 3: Yeah was. 180 00:07:53,747 --> 00:07:55,907 Speaker 4: The funny thing is they're playing New Zealand now, which 181 00:07:55,947 --> 00:07:58,387 Speaker 4: is a tough series because even one three oil four 182 00:07:58,467 --> 00:08:00,227 Speaker 4: years ago and it was a slightly freakish series. It 183 00:08:00,227 --> 00:08:01,827 Speaker 4: was the first bastball series, but also a lot of 184 00:08:01,907 --> 00:08:06,667 Speaker 4: kind of Sidedoor's moments like con Conder, Goronholmes, Noble, Ben 185 00:08:06,747 --> 00:08:08,427 Speaker 4: Stokes at Lauds. They kind of all went in England's 186 00:08:08,427 --> 00:08:11,387 Speaker 4: way and it also means were somehow went through again, 187 00:08:11,707 --> 00:08:13,747 Speaker 4: which is unlikely, then they wouldn't even get that much credit 188 00:08:13,787 --> 00:08:15,147 Speaker 4: because they're be like, oh, you've done that before. 189 00:08:15,227 --> 00:08:17,107 Speaker 3: So it's actually horrible series ringing to play. 190 00:08:18,027 --> 00:08:19,707 Speaker 4: We've seen what Matt Henry did to Zach Crawley a 191 00:08:19,707 --> 00:08:21,867 Speaker 4: couple of years ago and got about six times out 192 00:08:21,907 --> 00:08:24,827 Speaker 4: of six being able to lose that series, there would 193 00:08:24,827 --> 00:08:25,747 Speaker 4: be a huge. 194 00:08:25,467 --> 00:08:26,267 Speaker 3: Amount of pressure. 195 00:08:26,787 --> 00:08:29,227 Speaker 4: Even even if lose a test will series is live, 196 00:08:29,307 --> 00:08:31,747 Speaker 4: it will be really comfortable. So no, no, I think I 197 00:08:31,787 --> 00:08:34,347 Speaker 4: mean Richard Gore, the CEO, he was right when he said, 198 00:08:34,347 --> 00:08:36,827 Speaker 4: actually the easy thing to do the popular thing to 199 00:08:36,827 --> 00:08:40,107 Speaker 4: do would have been to sack McCallum. That's definitely true. 200 00:08:41,067 --> 00:08:43,667 Speaker 4: So in the sense the whole kind of regime has 201 00:08:43,667 --> 00:08:46,667 Speaker 4: gone in even higher on even more on mcclumby by 202 00:08:46,747 --> 00:08:49,467 Speaker 4: not sacking him. So they basically said, you know, we 203 00:08:49,547 --> 00:08:51,587 Speaker 4: don't want to give into the masses. We've said we 204 00:08:51,667 --> 00:08:54,587 Speaker 4: always basically always losing Ingld, always losing Australia, and then 205 00:08:54,627 --> 00:08:56,827 Speaker 4: they rip things up, although actually sometimes they lose and 206 00:08:56,907 --> 00:09:00,227 Speaker 4: they don't they don't rip things off. But yeah, so 207 00:09:00,267 --> 00:09:03,747 Speaker 4: there will be the England team under McCullum is more 208 00:09:03,747 --> 00:09:05,787 Speaker 4: and popular now that's ever been before. There's a sense 209 00:09:05,907 --> 00:09:07,867 Speaker 4: not only the results have gone down, but they've been 210 00:09:09,187 --> 00:09:12,387 Speaker 4: they've made some idiotic comments about you know, changing, changing 211 00:09:12,387 --> 00:09:15,067 Speaker 4: cricket forever and everything, which is a lot of people. 212 00:09:15,187 --> 00:09:16,027 Speaker 3: They haven't won a lot. 213 00:09:16,027 --> 00:09:18,867 Speaker 4: There's a sense that they've been a bit a bit arrogant, 214 00:09:18,907 --> 00:09:20,547 Speaker 4: a bit a bit aloof and stuff, so that there 215 00:09:20,627 --> 00:09:23,787 Speaker 4: is a need this summer really not just to win, 216 00:09:23,827 --> 00:09:26,507 Speaker 4: but to get the kind of nation back back on side. 217 00:09:26,827 --> 00:09:29,027 Speaker 4: So it's a it's a new challenge. It's certainly the 218 00:09:29,067 --> 00:09:32,827 Speaker 4: toughest toughest period of McCollum's regime so far, and he 219 00:09:32,867 --> 00:09:35,467 Speaker 4: will adapt a bit and the regime around him will 220 00:09:35,547 --> 00:09:37,547 Speaker 4: adapt to a fair amount and we'll see if that 221 00:09:37,947 --> 00:09:39,507 Speaker 4: at leads to something. I mean, he's only he's only 222 00:09:39,507 --> 00:09:41,387 Speaker 4: actually got eighteen months left on his contract, so it's 223 00:09:41,387 --> 00:09:42,547 Speaker 4: not actually a huge amount of time. 224 00:09:42,587 --> 00:09:44,507 Speaker 3: But within that you have, you. 225 00:09:44,387 --> 00:09:45,987 Speaker 4: Have an Ashes at home, you would have the oly 226 00:09:46,067 --> 00:09:49,787 Speaker 4: I World Cup in Africa next kind of next eighteen 227 00:09:49,787 --> 00:09:53,067 Speaker 4: months time as well. So yeah, a lot on and 228 00:09:53,347 --> 00:09:56,787 Speaker 4: in this this period will really affect how McCollum's Rainers Jrged. 229 00:09:56,907 --> 00:09:59,027 Speaker 4: If the results keep on dwindling so they lose to 230 00:09:59,067 --> 00:10:02,187 Speaker 4: New Zealand and they then lose lose, lose the Ashes, 231 00:10:02,667 --> 00:10:05,627 Speaker 4: it will be seen that actually great eighteen months and 232 00:10:05,667 --> 00:10:09,827 Speaker 4: then it all went pretty pretty flat, pretty flat, very quickly. 233 00:10:09,907 --> 00:10:10,187 Speaker 3: Really. 234 00:10:11,187 --> 00:10:15,187 Speaker 2: What is the commonly held view on when Ben Stokes 235 00:10:15,267 --> 00:10:17,787 Speaker 2: will stop playing cricket for England. 236 00:10:18,027 --> 00:10:18,427 Speaker 3: I think the. 237 00:10:18,947 --> 00:10:22,307 Speaker 4: Best I mean, I think the best case that's sort 238 00:10:22,347 --> 00:10:25,187 Speaker 4: of vaguely realistic, is he plays the Ashes next year 239 00:10:25,387 --> 00:10:29,507 Speaker 4: and maybe somehow somehow goes to the World Cup afterwards, 240 00:10:30,027 --> 00:10:31,987 Speaker 4: and then that's it. By that time he'll be thirty 241 00:10:32,107 --> 00:10:37,027 Speaker 4: six and just bowld. Yeah, I think that's the likeliest. 242 00:10:37,187 --> 00:10:39,107 Speaker 4: I think, I think that's yeah, but it could It's 243 00:10:39,147 --> 00:10:42,787 Speaker 4: one of those where the amount of injuries his hairs, 244 00:10:42,907 --> 00:10:44,787 Speaker 4: you kind of feel, actually, he could be one bad 245 00:10:44,827 --> 00:10:48,027 Speaker 4: injury away from that being it, or there's a world 246 00:10:48,067 --> 00:10:52,027 Speaker 4: where maybe you know, he goes on and places a 247 00:10:52,027 --> 00:10:55,067 Speaker 4: specialist batsman for a few more years to come. But 248 00:10:55,707 --> 00:10:59,907 Speaker 4: it does feel quite kind of precarious, quite tricky. Fits 249 00:10:59,947 --> 00:11:01,947 Speaker 4: is always there and his batting return like he bowled 250 00:11:01,987 --> 00:11:03,587 Speaker 4: very well, his battery returns have. 251 00:11:03,547 --> 00:11:06,427 Speaker 3: Been really, you know, pretty average. 252 00:11:06,027 --> 00:11:10,427 Speaker 4: For forty to fifty tests now, and I think, yeah, 253 00:11:10,507 --> 00:11:12,187 Speaker 4: but I think that's there's there's a there's an argument 254 00:11:12,187 --> 00:11:14,827 Speaker 4: actually in terms of McCollum that if Stokes were to 255 00:11:14,867 --> 00:11:17,067 Speaker 4: go was captured weirdly and Harry brook came in, that 256 00:11:17,107 --> 00:11:19,547 Speaker 4: actually probably been quite good for McCullum because it's rapport 257 00:11:19,547 --> 00:11:22,587 Speaker 4: with Brooks seems to be excellent Brooks. Brooks always talked 258 00:11:22,587 --> 00:11:24,467 Speaker 4: about how mcom's the best coaches ever played with, and 259 00:11:25,027 --> 00:11:25,747 Speaker 4: in the. 260 00:11:27,027 --> 00:11:28,747 Speaker 3: World Cup it was mccom's idea. 261 00:11:28,587 --> 00:11:31,147 Speaker 4: For Brooke to move himself to bat at three, and 262 00:11:31,147 --> 00:11:33,147 Speaker 4: then he got one hundred there in his first game there. 263 00:11:33,227 --> 00:11:35,787 Speaker 4: So there was a really tight relationship between those two 264 00:11:36,067 --> 00:11:39,107 Speaker 4: and yeah, the Stokes question it kind of yeah, it's 265 00:11:39,107 --> 00:11:40,987 Speaker 4: sort of like his bowling is now better than his batting, 266 00:11:41,067 --> 00:11:43,347 Speaker 4: but with his injuries, how much can you kind of 267 00:11:43,347 --> 00:11:44,387 Speaker 4: trust his bowling workload? 268 00:11:44,427 --> 00:11:46,267 Speaker 3: So a lot of little questions there for England. 269 00:11:47,227 --> 00:11:49,507 Speaker 2: Might this end up being the right decision? You know, 270 00:11:49,867 --> 00:11:52,867 Speaker 2: despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary in terms of 271 00:11:52,867 --> 00:11:55,467 Speaker 2: the ninety percent of your readers who don't think it 272 00:11:55,547 --> 00:11:59,067 Speaker 2: is the right the right decision, Could this scened up 273 00:11:59,107 --> 00:12:00,227 Speaker 2: being a good decision? 274 00:12:01,707 --> 00:12:01,947 Speaker 3: Yeah? 275 00:12:02,107 --> 00:12:04,187 Speaker 4: I think I think with the new the new selector 276 00:12:04,467 --> 00:12:08,027 Speaker 4: is empowered and and there's a tweak in the kind 277 00:12:08,067 --> 00:12:10,307 Speaker 4: of personnel and then not just picking guys who play 278 00:12:10,347 --> 00:12:11,987 Speaker 4: in the kind of basketball method and we see a 279 00:12:11,987 --> 00:12:15,587 Speaker 4: slight refined way or keeping the kind of best aspects. 280 00:12:15,947 --> 00:12:17,547 Speaker 4: I think it could be a good decision. And then 281 00:12:18,347 --> 00:12:20,387 Speaker 4: you know, McCallum, whatever whins the ashes was the World 282 00:12:20,387 --> 00:12:22,947 Speaker 4: Cup then walks up into the sunset. I mean, it's 283 00:12:22,947 --> 00:12:26,027 Speaker 4: the strangest things have happened, right, I don't think it's Yeah, 284 00:12:26,267 --> 00:12:29,347 Speaker 4: I think there's no guarantee that a new. 285 00:12:29,227 --> 00:12:30,707 Speaker 3: Coach would have would have done better just for the 286 00:12:30,787 --> 00:12:31,187 Speaker 3: sake of it. 287 00:12:31,587 --> 00:12:33,307 Speaker 4: The other thing we haven't talked about is the lack 288 00:12:33,347 --> 00:12:37,547 Speaker 4: of the candidates who have been discussed are already foreign candidates, 289 00:12:37,667 --> 00:12:40,107 Speaker 4: as McCollum obviously is. So in the hundred, you know, 290 00:12:40,147 --> 00:12:42,667 Speaker 4: the men's hundred, of the eight coaches, only one of 291 00:12:42,667 --> 00:12:45,987 Speaker 4: them is English. That man is is Peter Moores, who's 292 00:12:45,987 --> 00:12:47,867 Speaker 4: already be England coached twice. He's not going to come 293 00:12:47,947 --> 00:12:49,627 Speaker 4: back again. So there's actually just a lack of English 294 00:12:49,667 --> 00:12:52,147 Speaker 4: coaching talent, which is one of the big things as well. 295 00:12:52,147 --> 00:12:54,627 Speaker 4: And if you go overseas you generally have to pay 296 00:12:54,827 --> 00:12:56,947 Speaker 4: a lot more. So that's been a real issue as well, 297 00:12:57,027 --> 00:12:58,427 Speaker 4: which is, you know, they could have tried to get 298 00:12:58,427 --> 00:13:00,667 Speaker 4: any fla might not even have worked, in which case 299 00:13:01,667 --> 00:13:03,667 Speaker 4: their potentially they've spent a lot of money to really 300 00:13:03,667 --> 00:13:05,587 Speaker 4: get nowhere at all. Was that was the risk that 301 00:13:06,227 --> 00:13:08,507 Speaker 4: in and face, and they've tried to they're going to 302 00:13:08,627 --> 00:13:12,747 Speaker 4: kind of spend more and refine their approach in other 303 00:13:12,867 --> 00:13:15,147 Speaker 4: areas and I kind of hope McCollum can keep being McCullum, 304 00:13:15,467 --> 00:13:20,387 Speaker 4: but the areas were lacking, there's more, Yeah, other people 305 00:13:20,427 --> 00:13:23,387 Speaker 4: able to kind of to fill that that that's that's 306 00:13:23,427 --> 00:13:26,787 Speaker 4: the betting England made And yeah, for the next eighteen 307 00:13:26,827 --> 00:13:29,387 Speaker 4: months will determine and I think actually, if it doesn't 308 00:13:29,427 --> 00:13:32,547 Speaker 4: go well, I think not only McCollum will be obviously 309 00:13:32,547 --> 00:13:34,347 Speaker 4: we'll go because this contract will end of If he 310 00:13:34,347 --> 00:13:37,507 Speaker 4: doesn't go before Rob Key, imagine director he might go 311 00:13:37,507 --> 00:13:40,787 Speaker 4: as well, even Richard or the CEO who's really said 312 00:13:40,827 --> 00:13:42,707 Speaker 4: he's made this decision as well. So like there's a 313 00:13:42,747 --> 00:13:46,427 Speaker 4: lot of people actually who whose kind of futures rests 314 00:13:46,427 --> 00:13:49,267 Speaker 4: on doing a lot a lot better going forward. 315 00:13:49,307 --> 00:13:51,747 Speaker 2: Now, fascinating time in English cricket. We're going to get 316 00:13:51,747 --> 00:13:54,667 Speaker 2: a close up view with England host New Zealand side 317 00:13:54,707 --> 00:13:55,547 Speaker 2: in a few months time. 318 00:13:56,107 --> 00:13:59,267 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 319 00:13:59,387 --> 00:14:02,667 Speaker 1: to news talks it'd be weekends from midday or follow 320 00:14:02,707 --> 00:14:04,267 Speaker 1: the podcast on I had Radio