1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editors with us Thomas Hallow. 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, good afternoon. 3 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: If Nicola can pull us off, it's impressive, right. 4 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is really consequential. I think, I 5 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 2: mean this operating allowance, that's the name we give to 6 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: the new discretionary spending reduced from two point four billion 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: dollars to just one point three billion dollars. It's the 8 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 2: smallest amount of new spending in a decade. So you'd 9 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 2: have to go back to the bill English budget to 10 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 2: get one the small And basically what that means is 11 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: that in order to get the books back into surplus 12 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: to start paying down the debt, Nicola Willis has decided 13 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: to make the departments basically metabolize their own spending. If 14 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: you need extra money in your department, if you're a 15 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: chief executive, you're going to have to sort of have 16 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 2: a one on one out policy cutting something somewhere in 17 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: order to pay for something somewhere else. It's it's it's 18 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: quite it's quite big, and I think I took a 19 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 2: lot a lot of people, including myself by surprise. 20 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: Well, what it says to us is that, I mean, 21 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: is it possible because it feels like the cuts that 22 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: this will require will run deeper than the cuts that 23 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: we see last budget. 24 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: Yes, I think when you think about the cuts last budget, 25 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: you know that the government got its feet under the 26 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 2: desk and December twenty three and they basically said to 27 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 2: the public service, look fine, six and a half percent 28 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 2: to seven and a half percent of your baseline and 29 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: then get rid of it. And it was pretty quick, 30 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: pretty pretty blunt. I guess this time around, I think 31 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 2: they've done a deeper look into departmental spending and they've 32 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: actually been I think from what I'm sort of hearing it, 33 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: they've been quite sort of specific. They've locked to a 34 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: line of spending and said, right, get rid of that, 35 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: or maybe you know, tweak it like this to save 36 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: some money. And I think because of that, what you'll 37 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 2: probably see on budget Day twenty second of May is 38 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: you'll see larger line items that are that are freeing 39 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 2: up funding. So you might see two hundred million dollars 40 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: freed up from here, three hundred million dollars freed up 41 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 2: from from there. That it sort of feels like we 42 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: might be heading in that direction rather than. 43 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: Just producing numbers. Yeah, and so are you hearing a 44 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: new rumors about what is being cut. 45 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: Well, I did. I did have a discussion with my 46 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 2: colleague Gennatibsereni who comes on your show, but with Nikola 47 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: Willison December last year. Now, now she was talking in 48 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: the hypothetical, so just you know, putting that out there, 49 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 2: But we had a discussion about means testing certain things. 50 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: The Best Dart payment, that's the payment to new parents 51 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: that goes to every new parent that Ian Rennie has 52 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: also spoken. The Treasury Secretary has mentioned things like the 53 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: key we say, the subsidies. I think it's up to 54 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 2: five hundred and twenty dollars a year that with the 55 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 2: government spans a billion dollars a year on that, so 56 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: you could means test that as well. Again, obviously these 57 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 2: are all hypotheticals that haven't been confirmed. And the other 58 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: one I suppose would be the Winter Energy payment. I 59 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: think that's about half a billion dollars is spent on that. Again, 60 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 2: hold on. 61 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: Take okay, here's the argument. The argument has always been 62 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: mounted is that that the admin that it takes to 63 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: means test is so expensive that you actually end up 64 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: saving very little. Yes, yeah, do you put the onus 65 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: on the person to prove that they actually qualify for it. 66 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you're getting. 67 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like, if you the government 68 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: have to prove that they don't qualify, then the costers 69 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: on you. But if you now say you have to 70 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: prove to be like, look what the government has just 71 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: done with this the rebate that they've given to the 72 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: childcare stuff. 73 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: Right, they'll be in a hurry to repeat that. 74 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: No, but you know, like Thomas, they had made it 75 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: so difficult to get that money back because you've got 76 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: to collect your invoices for three months and then you've 77 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: got to do all the paper because it's so hard 78 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: that heaps people just don't do it right. So you 79 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: could do the same thing with the Best Start payments. 80 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: You could do the same thing with with the winter 81 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: energy payments, couldn't you? 82 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: You see? I think I think in the cases of 83 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: I mean, you're quite right, and I think I think 84 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: the government would never again look to do a rebate 85 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: style thing like Best Start based on the experience. I mean, 86 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: this is you know, speculation they've had this year. I 87 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 2: think if you're looking on the key, we save a key, 88 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: we save a winter energy payment, and and the and 89 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: ab start payment. You could probably means test that by 90 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: income testing it. Yeah, and that would be much easier 91 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: because the ID he has all of our incomes and 92 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: it would be an easier thing to to do this. 93 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: And I need to talk to you about Tory now. 94 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: Tory has been an objectively has been an abysmal failure 95 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: as the Wellington mayor. Are the Greens really going to 96 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: let her come in on their list? 97 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: Look, I'm going to give you a controversial take to 98 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: give give people something to text then about. I actually 99 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: think Tory. I think the future will probably treat her 100 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 2: more kindly than the present. I think certainly the rates 101 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: increases have been I think probably excessive, and I personally 102 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: I think the airport's say idea wasn't a terrible idea. 103 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 2: But I think that I think the water investment, which 104 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: has been undermined by Wellington waters bungling, is actually, you know, 105 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: a pretty positive thing. 106 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: You had to be drag kicking and screaming to that 107 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: carry on. 108 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 2: And I think I mean that. I think a large 109 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 2: part of the negative sentiment is probably to do with 110 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: the town Hall and the Central Library blowing a hole 111 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: in central Welling. 112 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: I don't think I'll do with her being a boozer 113 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: in public, I. 114 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: Would I think that that is that I mean, I 115 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 2: think that is that is that is certainly not helping 116 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: the pro Tory case. 117 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: Thomas. When you stop talking right now and we're going 118 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: to call your colleagues and we're going to ask them 119 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: to take your temperature and just just make sure that 120 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: you're not sick, because. 121 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: It's not a it's not a ten out of team, 122 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 2: mir or two or even perhaps a nine out of team, 123 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 2: which is what she's saying on the radio. 124 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: Five out of it. Anyway, Listen, if they're listening, tell 125 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: them to come immediately, all right, iole and just lay 126 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: you down because we think that we're not well. 127 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: I'll get Jason to bring up her mom. 128 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: Back from Okay, Thomas, listen, thank you go have a 129 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: lie down. I appreciate it. Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editor. 130 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: I don't know what's happened to him. For more from 131 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: Heather Duplessy, Allen Drive listen live to news Talks. It'd 132 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.