WEBVTT - The Panel: Census data shows more than half the population has no religion 0:00:05.761 --> 0:00:09.721 You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from news Talks B. 0:00:10.441 --> 0:00:12.921 And my first panelist, where would you go with? Let's go? 0:00:13.761 --> 0:00:15.201 I was going to say age before beauty, but that 0:00:15.281 --> 0:00:16.921 just gets me into trouble. That's an easy one, but 0:00:17.081 --> 0:00:19.961 let's just go with age and beauty. Of course it's 0:00:20.001 --> 0:00:22.681 Pete wolf Camp from the Resident Builder and here on 0:00:22.721 --> 0:00:24.601 news Talks a baptew. 0:00:24.201 --> 0:00:25.641 More of one less than the other. I think as 0:00:25.681 --> 0:00:27.761 time moves on, more. 0:00:27.601 --> 0:00:31.041 Of that means yes, I guess that's inevitably. Hey, by 0:00:31.041 --> 0:00:33.601 the way, I did enjoy you've actually come dressed for 0:00:33.641 --> 0:00:35.921 theme because I have. I got dressed up, especially the 0:00:36.041 --> 0:00:38.921 Hiver's CROSI I am, and they're not in sports mode, 0:00:39.081 --> 0:00:41.681 so you're ac accident waiting to happen. 0:00:41.801 --> 0:00:45.601 None of their Hivers bright orange they were. 0:00:45.681 --> 0:00:46.641 Are they your first pair? 0:00:47.161 --> 0:00:49.721 No? No, In fact, these I don't know how many 0:00:49.721 --> 0:00:52.441 pairs I've had. I've had one pair that I like 0:00:52.521 --> 0:00:55.121 so much that I actually tried to retread them. That 0:00:55.201 --> 0:00:58.521 being a combination of sort of thrift and dutchness and 0:00:58.761 --> 0:01:01.001 and things like that couldn't actually work that well. 0:01:01.121 --> 0:01:03.801 To be thrift in dutchness, you being of Dutch descent 0:01:03.841 --> 0:01:06.321 which wait to get away with that's right, and also 0:01:06.521 --> 0:01:09.201 joining me as editor of the New Zealand Gardener magazine. 0:01:09.281 --> 0:01:10.801 Joe McCarroll, God, Joe, how are you going? 0:01:10.881 --> 0:01:11.841 I am tickety booth? 0:01:12.281 --> 0:01:14.961 Tickety booth? Where does tickety boo come from? I've been 0:01:15.161 --> 0:01:17.321 looking at some of these expressions we take for granted, 0:01:17.681 --> 0:01:20.641 and I don't know. I just sometimes think, where. 0:01:20.481 --> 0:01:21.441 Does tickety booths love? 0:01:21.481 --> 0:01:23.281 It's very English, isn't it. 0:01:23.281 --> 0:01:27.401 It's just tickety boo origin story like down the mines 0:01:27.441 --> 0:01:29.961 when the children were coming back from their fourteen hours. 0:01:29.761 --> 0:01:33.921 Sho oh no, if the clock got to fourteen hours 0:01:33.961 --> 0:01:35.241 and your shift was up, then. 0:01:35.121 --> 0:01:39.121 It was tickety booth tickety bo Oh my goodness. Hopefully 0:01:39.161 --> 0:01:41.481 something more And isn't that? But anyway, by the way. 0:01:41.441 --> 0:01:42.841 We'll get a text on this, won't we. 0:01:44.081 --> 0:01:46.161 Oh yeah, we get texts all the time. By the way, 0:01:46.161 --> 0:01:50.561 you can text. You can text on nine two nine two. Right, 0:01:50.641 --> 0:01:55.481 let's get into it, shall we. So firstly I covered 0:01:55.601 --> 0:01:57.761 this because I've been doing afternoons this week. But the 0:01:57.761 --> 0:02:01.121 mood of the boardroom rankings, which were normally when I 0:02:01.121 --> 0:02:03.321 see the mood of the boardroom comes out, I'm sort 0:02:03.321 --> 0:02:04.761 of like, oh yeah, Murder of the Boardroom, And then 0:02:04.761 --> 0:02:06.001 I had a bit of a read it and actually 0:02:06.001 --> 0:02:09.441 found it quite interesting as to the perception of everyone's performances. 0:02:09.801 --> 0:02:12.681 The thing that initially stood out to me was that, 0:02:13.121 --> 0:02:15.681 and I think he might be happy about this that 0:02:15.961 --> 0:02:18.601 Christopher Luxen wasn't racked at the top. It was Erica Stanford, 0:02:18.601 --> 0:02:20.881 but five of his team members were racked above him. 0:02:21.201 --> 0:02:23.681 And I guess as a team builder, he'd be happy 0:02:23.721 --> 0:02:24.721 with that, wouldn't he, Pete. 0:02:24.761 --> 0:02:26.321 I suspect that he's not going to be sort of 0:02:26.361 --> 0:02:29.161 threatened or upset about that. That what he wants to 0:02:29.161 --> 0:02:31.241 do is have his ministers doing a good job. And 0:02:31.281 --> 0:02:34.561 if they're regarded by those people surveyed as doing a 0:02:34.601 --> 0:02:38.081 good job, and arguably even a better job than him, 0:02:38.641 --> 0:02:39.361 then that's great. 0:02:39.921 --> 0:02:43.841 Yeah. I don't shortened sweet there, Pete. What do you reckon? Joe? 0:02:44.161 --> 0:02:46.321 Oh? I mean, I could have predicted a lot of 0:02:46.321 --> 0:02:48.601 it before I read it, Like, I mean, I'm not 0:02:48.641 --> 0:02:52.721 particularly surprised that the business community are feeling pretty happy 0:02:52.721 --> 0:02:54.881 with the center right government. I think it aligns with 0:02:55.601 --> 0:02:56.961 what they're looking for. But I think it's interesting. 0:02:57.041 --> 0:02:59.121 I mean, well, that's right because the optimism had gone 0:02:59.121 --> 0:03:00.881 from a one point eight to two last year at 0:03:00.881 --> 0:03:03.001 a five to a three point two to three. Yeah, 0:03:03.001 --> 0:03:05.401 that's right, and that's that's generally what you probably referring to. 0:03:05.401 --> 0:03:08.561 Their Yeah, it's certainly no surprises, it's no surprises, But 0:03:08.641 --> 0:03:11.281 I mean, I think it's interesting to how we should 0:03:11.281 --> 0:03:13.481 wait these things. You know, when you look at economic 0:03:13.601 --> 0:03:16.921 activity in New Zealand, it's so strongly driven by those SMEs. 0:03:17.561 --> 0:03:20.481 And so I'm not saying this isn't a cohort, but 0:03:20.521 --> 0:03:23.121 it is a cohort, and they have got a bias 0:03:23.961 --> 0:03:26.161 because what they think is this, you know, what makes 0:03:26.201 --> 0:03:29.201 them optimistic is an economy in which they can make money, 0:03:29.761 --> 0:03:31.321 which makes sense, which is. 0:03:31.321 --> 0:03:35.441 Also which they can employ people, create more wealth, those 0:03:35.441 --> 0:03:37.081 sorts of things downside to. 0:03:37.001 --> 0:03:39.841 That, well it's more than one of the factors. Then 0:03:40.001 --> 0:03:44.481 they don't consider as a factor like well being, workers' rights. 0:03:44.521 --> 0:03:47.921 You know, those are not factors which would improve the outlook. 0:03:48.241 --> 0:03:49.561 In my cynical view. 0:03:49.481 --> 0:03:51.481 You don't have workers if you don't have a business, right, 0:03:51.881 --> 0:03:54.361 So let's have business and then we'll sort out the reason. 0:03:54.521 --> 0:03:56.681 Yeah, you know, and I see what you're saying, but 0:03:56.721 --> 0:04:00.241 I'm like you know, if let's have business, let's sort 0:04:00.241 --> 0:04:01.401 out the rest. I mean, that's kind of what we're 0:04:01.401 --> 0:04:03.401 talking about now with some of the policy that's been 0:04:03.481 --> 0:04:05.641 rolled out where it's like, just cut the red tape, 0:04:05.641 --> 0:04:08.481 and you think, oh, and I'm conflicted about it. I 0:04:08.841 --> 0:04:10.641 see the temptation to say cut the red tape, but 0:04:10.641 --> 0:04:12.721 I'm like, some of that red tape it's protecting us 0:04:12.721 --> 0:04:14.281 as well as long it's down. 0:04:14.361 --> 0:04:15.841 Yeah, I see that. But then you look at Erica 0:04:15.881 --> 0:04:17.881 Stanford and I was watching a clip with her talking 0:04:17.921 --> 0:04:20.001 about education. Right, so they did a big review of 0:04:20.001 --> 0:04:22.321 what's going on with the how the Ministry of Education 0:04:22.361 --> 0:04:27.121 has been administering school properties. Basiclyne terribly right. 0:04:28.041 --> 0:04:29.801 So that's actually a ripper of a store. 0:04:30.001 --> 0:04:31.281 It's a fantastic out. 0:04:31.761 --> 0:04:35.281 It's a shockhead. Just one and a half million to 0:04:35.321 --> 0:04:39.041 two million dollars to build a classroom. 0:04:38.921 --> 0:04:40.881 Honestly, can we get it. 0:04:41.201 --> 0:04:43.881 Don't get too hysterical about that figure though, You've got 0:04:43.921 --> 0:04:45.401 to kind of crunch some numbers on that. 0:04:46.321 --> 0:04:48.441 And a classroom doesn't even have I mean, it doesn't 0:04:48.481 --> 0:04:50.561 even have a toilet, it doesn't have a kitchen. 0:04:52.281 --> 0:04:54.681 Also, we're not talking about a classroom like you know, 0:04:54.841 --> 0:04:56.961 most of us would imagine classrooms that we sat in 0:04:57.001 --> 0:04:59.881 as children or something like that. Classrooms are not like that, 0:04:59.961 --> 0:05:02.801 And it might be reflective of the sorts of buildings 0:05:02.881 --> 0:05:07.561 that the MOE have been doing recently, often slightly more elaborate. 0:05:07.601 --> 0:05:10.641 They're part of larger complexes, they've got more amenity in 0:05:10.681 --> 0:05:13.441 them and so on. But I still think that, you know, 0:05:13.481 --> 0:05:17.121 I'm doing the numbers still on stretch at the school. 0:05:17.201 --> 0:05:20.121 I'm on a board of trustees, right, so we've done 0:05:20.161 --> 0:05:23.041 a recent building project and I know what the numbers are, 0:05:23.081 --> 0:05:25.321 and I know what the classroom rate would be, and 0:05:25.361 --> 0:05:28.321 it's considerably less than that. Now that's not done by 0:05:28.441 --> 0:05:31.321 m o E. That's done by the diocese basically. 0:05:31.361 --> 0:05:39.521 So e hey, no, I didn't mean done by we 0:05:39.561 --> 0:05:42.561 are digressing. I guess the thing was. I mean, I 0:05:42.641 --> 0:05:44.401 actually thought when you said no surprises, Joe, that you 0:05:44.441 --> 0:05:48.481 were talking about the rankings as well, which had what 0:05:48.641 --> 0:05:50.041 was it, Erica Stanford number one. 0:05:50.241 --> 0:05:52.881 I think Erica Stanford's performing. Yeah, you know, I think 0:05:52.921 --> 0:05:55.241 she's a future leader of the National Party and probably 0:05:55.241 --> 0:05:56.761 a Prime Minister of New Zealand. I think she has 0:05:56.801 --> 0:06:00.121 been brilliant in her ministerial portfolio. But yeah, I mean 0:06:00.161 --> 0:06:02.881 I think there was no surprises there for me. I 0:06:02.921 --> 0:06:05.881 think the people who were judging it, they waited it 0:06:05.921 --> 0:06:08.841 as I would have expected based on the position they're 0:06:09.281 --> 0:06:10.561 experiencing life from. 0:06:10.601 --> 0:06:12.761 There was an interesting article too, I think Matthew Houghton 0:06:12.801 --> 0:06:16.201 went to that border the mood of the boardroom and 0:06:16.361 --> 0:06:18.921 wrote a piece going because there was also the discussion 0:06:18.961 --> 0:06:22.361 between Labor and National around superannuation, and his comments were 0:06:22.401 --> 0:06:24.241 along the lines of these are the two people who 0:06:24.241 --> 0:06:26.281 should be leading the country, which I thought was fascinating 0:06:26.281 --> 0:06:32.281 as well. Who said Edmonds and Nichola Willis So I 0:06:32.361 --> 0:06:35.161 had a debate about superannuation. And I think his reflection 0:06:35.241 --> 0:06:36.801 on being in the room and I haven't a chance 0:06:36.881 --> 0:06:39.001 to look at the debate yet, was actually, these two 0:06:39.041 --> 0:06:40.721 people should be leading the country. 0:06:40.561 --> 0:06:42.361 And that's a good sign. It's a good sign when 0:06:42.361 --> 0:06:45.121 there are leaders in waiting, and it's a good sign 0:06:45.161 --> 0:06:48.001 when there's intelligence at the top in all parties. Yes, 0:06:48.201 --> 0:06:50.721 well maybe not all parties. 0:06:54.161 --> 0:06:56.001 Well, I know it'll be interesting because if we have 0:06:56.041 --> 0:06:58.321 the same opinion on which parties might be struggling in 0:06:58.321 --> 0:07:01.481 that one but the other one. Actually, the interesting thing 0:07:01.481 --> 0:07:04.721 for Luxeon Christopher Luxon was that he had key performance 0:07:04.721 --> 0:07:07.601 in and this is why I think he'd be happy 0:07:07.641 --> 0:07:09.921 with it, because they were things about, you know, selling 0:07:09.961 --> 0:07:13.481 New Zealand and branding and about ten different things, but 0:07:13.561 --> 0:07:15.801 the one he scored four point four I think out 0:07:15.801 --> 0:07:18.681 of five was his ability to build a good team 0:07:19.041 --> 0:07:21.281 and everything, which is exactly how he has pitched his 0:07:21.361 --> 0:07:24.681 Prime ministership. So I would say he should be he 0:07:24.721 --> 0:07:27.281 should be pretty pretty happy with that, do you think, Pete. 0:07:27.401 --> 0:07:30.441 Yeah. And it always surprised me at the lead up 0:07:30.481 --> 0:07:34.081 to the election last year that the pitch for National 0:07:34.241 --> 0:07:38.201 was not more along lines of here's our team and 0:07:38.281 --> 0:07:42.401 here's your team effectively, because I think they did bring 0:07:42.441 --> 0:07:44.361 to the table a lot of people with a hell 0:07:44.401 --> 0:07:47.601 of a lot more qualifications and ability than Labor did, 0:07:47.641 --> 0:07:49.281 and maybe that's why the election went the way that 0:07:49.321 --> 0:07:51.321 it did. So I think in that sense, if he 0:07:51.401 --> 0:07:53.521 ends up being lower down the ranking and he's able 0:07:53.561 --> 0:07:55.641 to put a team forward, that goes, actually, here's my 0:07:55.721 --> 0:07:58.081 high performance because they're the ones actually doing the work. 0:07:58.201 --> 0:08:00.361 If I've got someone doing infrastructure, then I want my 0:08:00.361 --> 0:08:02.241 best person doing that. I don't have to do it. 0:08:02.441 --> 0:08:04.041 I have to make sure that they do it. Well, 0:08:04.161 --> 0:08:05.841 that's good leadership. I would have thought I. 0:08:05.801 --> 0:08:07.921 Would have thought so. And it's consistent with the way 0:08:07.961 --> 0:08:10.841 he's been selling his leadership, I guess, isn't it. Joe. 0:08:10.921 --> 0:08:13.601 He absolutely I mean, he has never made any secret 0:08:13.721 --> 0:08:17.241 that he is running the country like you would run 0:08:17.241 --> 0:08:20.441 a business. And I see some upsides to that. But 0:08:20.481 --> 0:08:23.641 in the end of country is not a business, sure actually, 0:08:23.681 --> 0:08:25.081 and I think that is where you get the downside. 0:08:25.081 --> 0:08:28.081 I mean, those KPIs, I think it would be if 0:08:28.081 --> 0:08:30.921 we had more time to really tease them and say, 0:08:31.081 --> 0:08:35.681 is this delivering a new Zealand that for vulnerable people? 0:08:35.721 --> 0:08:38.321 And I'm not sure they are. I think they they're 0:08:38.361 --> 0:08:42.121 delivering more for people who already have more hot take. 0:08:42.881 --> 0:08:45.801 See. I know, I think I'd probably disagree with that 0:08:45.841 --> 0:08:48.721 because I think that you can't you can't distribute tax 0:08:48.801 --> 0:08:50.961 unless you're making money and having productive economy. And I 0:08:51.041 --> 0:08:52.601 think there is I think we sort of can have 0:08:52.681 --> 0:08:55.761 hopefully a cake can eat it too. But fun facts 0:08:55.761 --> 0:08:57.481 before we get into it. There's one found fact I 0:08:57.521 --> 0:09:01.441 really loved, and it's just that an old school campaigner, 0:09:01.761 --> 0:09:05.521 guess who was one ahead of luxen By. He was 0:09:05.521 --> 0:09:08.361 on three point seven to three on three point seven 0:09:08.401 --> 0:09:12.841 four with Studith Collins, which enjoyed that. But here's another 0:09:12.881 --> 0:09:15.001 fun fact. I actually did cover this in the afternoons. 0:09:15.081 --> 0:09:18.201 Did you know Erica Stanford, I think considered almost a 0:09:18.281 --> 0:09:19.801 music deger and I had a meeting because I might 0:09:19.841 --> 0:09:22.361 be doing as I might be doing Christmas concert with 0:09:22.401 --> 0:09:26.921 them with a particular brass band, and that's been hosted 0:09:26.921 --> 0:09:30.481 in the past by Erica Stanford, who apparently plays a 0:09:30.561 --> 0:09:33.961 mean besides heard that and actually here, I mean, she's 0:09:34.001 --> 0:09:35.361 a bit out of practice in this one, I'd say, 0:09:35.361 --> 0:09:38.321 because she's been enough like twenty three years. It's a 0:09:38.321 --> 0:09:41.401 few years she left school. But we've got a little 0:09:41.441 --> 0:09:51.121 clip of it. I think, am we big job there? 0:09:51.361 --> 0:10:00.961 Pits change anyway. I just think it's interesting when you 0:10:00.961 --> 0:10:05.881 hear about humanized something in Parliament, and it was funny 0:10:05.881 --> 0:10:08.201 watching her suddenly go from joking around and being like, 0:10:08.281 --> 0:10:11.041 I'm going to play this thing and she's just the determination. 0:10:13.641 --> 0:10:15.761 Just a little bit of a fun fact for you there. 0:10:15.841 --> 0:10:18.161 Let's let's move it on a bit because from someone 0:10:18.161 --> 0:10:20.521 who wasn't going to probably in the mood of the boardroom, 0:10:20.721 --> 0:10:24.121 be a superstar, perhaps not in the in the top 0:10:24.241 --> 0:10:30.441 top it was Casey Cassello. I don't think now it's 0:10:30.641 --> 0:10:34.281 it's easy. Let's not talk about the arguments so much 0:10:34.481 --> 0:10:38.921 of whether you know, smoking versus heated tobacco versus vapes. 0:10:39.321 --> 0:10:41.241 I think the problem for her is the whole argument 0:10:41.241 --> 0:10:45.001 has got lost because she has not handled this issue 0:10:45.441 --> 0:10:48.201 at all well. And I think she's a I still 0:10:48.201 --> 0:10:51.081 think she's a massive chink in the armor of a 0:10:51.121 --> 0:10:53.641 government that might consider in many respects it's doing well. 0:10:54.841 --> 0:10:56.361 Casey Costello is not doing well as. 0:10:56.281 --> 0:10:59.161 She Jo Gacy Costello is a hot mess. I mean, 0:10:59.241 --> 0:11:02.801 I don't think she's coming across as competent, you know. 0:11:02.881 --> 0:11:05.521 And I mean there's a lot of swirling swellings, narratives 0:11:05.521 --> 0:11:08.161 about conspiracies and that multimately not a tax breaks for 0:11:08.321 --> 0:11:12.401 you know. And I think if you were going to conspire, 0:11:12.881 --> 0:11:17.281 pick a more effective person, you know, Because yeah, I 0:11:17.641 --> 0:11:21.561 think she's she is a massive failing in the government. 0:11:21.601 --> 0:11:24.601 Right now. I would say, well, I failed to well 0:11:24.641 --> 0:11:26.121 absolutely when I've got you here for your view, but 0:11:26.161 --> 0:11:27.481 we're all going to be on a similar page on 0:11:27.481 --> 0:11:30.161 this one. I think Joe, because she talked about this 0:11:30.201 --> 0:11:32.481 independent advice she had and she would eventually give it 0:11:32.561 --> 0:11:33.241 looked like she just. 0:11:33.241 --> 0:11:35.401 Went she and printed something off the internet. 0:11:35.441 --> 0:11:38.121 Now, I reckon she either just went Now where were 0:11:38.161 --> 0:11:40.921 those articles that got sent to me by a particular person. 0:11:40.921 --> 0:11:42.441 I'd love to know if it was just someone a 0:11:42.481 --> 0:11:44.841 lobbyist for the stuff, who said, hey, have a read 0:11:44.881 --> 0:11:47.281 of these, or she'd lost it and she just went, 0:11:47.361 --> 0:11:52.241 I better google this heated tobacco versus vapes and smoking 0:11:52.721 --> 0:11:55.321 and just found five or sex articles. 0:11:56.161 --> 0:11:58.681 Even make your point, I mean, I just think the 0:11:58.721 --> 0:12:01.561 idea of going and saying I've got some research and 0:12:01.601 --> 0:12:04.441 then not being able to provide that research undermines your 0:12:04.481 --> 0:12:05.721 credibility immediately. 0:12:05.801 --> 0:12:07.641 I think there's been a lot of you know, the 0:12:07.721 --> 0:12:11.801 record can't be found. I can't find that documentation. Like 0:12:11.841 --> 0:12:13.521 I say, it feels chaotic. 0:12:14.321 --> 0:12:16.081 And here's the thing though, But I reckon if she 0:12:16.201 --> 0:12:18.521 was a national MP, I think she would have been 0:12:19.361 --> 0:12:22.041 shifted out in the same way we've seen already happen. 0:12:22.201 --> 0:12:24.881 Oh yeah, gone. But she's a New Zealand first MP, 0:12:25.281 --> 0:12:27.961 and I think while i've been I have sung Winston's 0:12:27.961 --> 0:12:31.161 praises as our foreign minister, and I've loved him telling 0:12:31.201 --> 0:12:33.161 off the Russians and all that sort of stuff. I 0:12:33.201 --> 0:12:35.561 hope he doesn't defend her to the detriment of the government, 0:12:35.561 --> 0:12:38.921 because I actually think she needs to be shifted on. 0:12:39.041 --> 0:12:41.001 And I think and I understand I am singing from 0:12:41.041 --> 0:12:45.321 my own song here and perhaps agreement, but I think 0:12:45.321 --> 0:12:48.361 this is a mark of luxe and being slightly powerless. 0:12:49.201 --> 0:12:52.721 He can't act because I think he's terrified ab upsetting Winston. 0:12:52.921 --> 0:12:55.081 I don't know if it's powerless. It's just a reflection 0:12:55.161 --> 0:12:57.481 of the fact that they are in coalition, right, and 0:12:57.961 --> 0:13:00.561 that what you do is in some way moderated by 0:13:00.601 --> 0:13:01.201 your partners. 0:13:01.401 --> 0:13:04.681 I think those coalition should be weighted based on the 0:13:05.081 --> 0:13:08.841 proportional representation. I think those decisions should be weighted in 0:13:08.921 --> 0:13:12.481 terms of who New Zealand has voted for, and I 0:13:12.521 --> 0:13:16.761 think in that sense there's too much sway held by 0:13:16.761 --> 0:13:17.721 the two minor parties. 0:13:18.881 --> 0:13:22.961 I guess it's about the look. It's also no coalition. 0:13:23.161 --> 0:13:26.081 I don't think could have one party say I want 0:13:26.121 --> 0:13:29.441 you to well, I don't know, because she's what is 0:13:29.481 --> 0:13:31.721 she is. Yeah, I don't know what the what the 0:13:31.801 --> 0:13:34.161 rules would be long term because we've had we had 0:13:34.281 --> 0:13:36.801 the last three years where labored enough to account to 0:13:36.841 --> 0:13:39.841 anyone except themselves. And I wonder if we still haven't 0:13:39.841 --> 0:13:42.521 worked out what coalition politics looks like, which probably asked 0:13:42.521 --> 0:13:44.761 them what they do. In Germany they have a coalition 0:13:44.841 --> 0:13:48.921 of that's quite amazingly coupled together coalitions. 0:13:48.921 --> 0:13:50.721 But I think you're right. I mean, the hard thing 0:13:50.801 --> 0:13:53.481 must be that people in national must know that this 0:13:53.521 --> 0:13:57.081 person is now liability to our government, which includes us and. 0:13:56.961 --> 0:14:00.561 Two and two in the next generation. I mean, you know, 0:14:00.721 --> 0:14:04.161 these aren't decisions that are sort of meaningless in terms 0:14:04.201 --> 0:14:09.001 of the consequences. I mean, I'm genuinely quite sad to 0:14:09.121 --> 0:14:11.521 think that the movement we were making towards smoke free 0:14:11.721 --> 0:14:15.161 to New Zealand is just being squandered. 0:14:16.841 --> 0:14:20.121 Well, yeah, thing is, it's predicated on the idea that 0:14:20.161 --> 0:14:22.241 you can ban something and I just don't think you could. 0:14:22.281 --> 0:14:24.481 I think that we are still trending downward with smoke. 0:14:24.521 --> 0:14:26.081 It still shocks me the number of people at smoke 0:14:26.121 --> 0:14:28.921 though it's like ten percent. I mean, it's a surprisingly 0:14:29.001 --> 0:14:31.481 large number of people when I don't know anyone who smokes. 0:14:31.681 --> 0:14:35.521 We are trending downwards on smoking, but we are like 0:14:35.721 --> 0:14:39.841 strocking on vaping, and I mean that is shocking because 0:14:39.881 --> 0:14:40.121 you know. 0:14:40.161 --> 0:14:42.001 You're not going to ban that either. I mean, that's 0:14:42.041 --> 0:14:42.321 the thing. 0:14:42.481 --> 0:14:46.441 But it's been so rearly targeted at young people. 0:14:46.201 --> 0:14:49.201 And it's simple things to do about it. Make it prescription. 0:14:49.761 --> 0:14:52.601 Plane packaging, prescription only vape stores. 0:14:53.641 --> 0:14:56.121 It's complicated. Hey, look, I think we might take quick 0:14:56.121 --> 0:14:59.081 break and we'll come back and see about how people 0:14:59.121 --> 0:15:02.201 got hot and hot under the collar about Crys Relux 0:15:02.281 --> 0:15:04.281 and daring to sell Hiss apartment and actually makes some 0:15:04.321 --> 0:15:06.641 money out of it. Well, I suspect he might have 0:15:06.641 --> 0:15:07.601 spent a fear whack of it. 0:15:07.601 --> 0:15:08.721 Will be interested to know. 0:15:08.841 --> 0:15:19.921 I have Okay, twenty three past three News Talk, Yes 0:15:20.001 --> 0:15:21.281 where everything. 0:15:23.361 --> 0:15:29.641 For the Great Heisman, Zim Wogle book mon Tiger. 0:15:29.601 --> 0:15:30.321 Was Master. 0:15:36.641 --> 0:15:39.401 And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. This is the panel. 0:15:39.481 --> 0:15:41.961 My panelist Joe mccarell, editor of The New Zealand Garden, 0:15:42.041 --> 0:15:44.441 and Pete wolf Camp, resident builder Here on news Talk 0:15:44.521 --> 0:15:48.321 zaid b. Now just on the continue a little bit 0:15:48.361 --> 0:15:52.001 of politics. The so Christopher Luxon has moved into Premier House. 0:15:52.121 --> 0:15:54.801 He didn't sound actually that thrilled about being there today. 0:15:54.841 --> 0:15:55.961 It's like it's all right. 0:15:56.441 --> 0:15:56.601 Ah. 0:15:56.801 --> 0:15:58.881 And and the other news, of course, which the news 0:15:59.041 --> 0:16:01.401 one News banged on about for a while, a big 0:16:01.481 --> 0:16:04.161 headline that somebody has sold alse in Wellington and made 0:16:04.201 --> 0:16:08.161 money PABs Maybe I don't know, but the apartment was 0:16:08.281 --> 0:16:10.961 last sold for seven hundred and ninety five thousand, and 0:16:12.361 --> 0:16:14.681 I think it's been I think he made a profit 0:16:14.721 --> 0:16:17.001 of around one hundred and seventy not taking into account 0:16:17.001 --> 0:16:19.001 what he spent on it. I actually didn't think this 0:16:19.241 --> 0:16:21.881 was such a I mean, it's newsworthy, I guess because 0:16:21.881 --> 0:16:25.361 people want to know what it was. But I'm not 0:16:25.401 --> 0:16:26.361 sure what point he was making. 0:16:26.401 --> 0:16:32.281 Pain The headline just enormously upset me, and not upset me, 0:16:32.841 --> 0:16:35.641 just made me furious because of the nature of the headline. 0:16:35.641 --> 0:16:38.121 So the headline is luxant avoids tax. 0:16:38.961 --> 0:16:40.721 No, that was mischievous, wasn't it. That's right? 0:16:40.841 --> 0:16:44.361 No, no, no, there's no tax to pay on capital gain. Now, 0:16:44.401 --> 0:16:45.961 whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, that's 0:16:46.001 --> 0:16:48.761 up to you. But suggesting you know that the whole 0:16:48.841 --> 0:16:50.361 thing around tax avoidance right. 0:16:50.361 --> 0:16:51.241 Is such a hot topic. 0:16:52.721 --> 0:16:57.721 That's just so mischievous and nasty to be blunt, it 0:16:57.921 --> 0:16:58.601 really annoyed me. 0:16:58.881 --> 0:16:59.041 Joe. 0:17:00.121 --> 0:17:03.081 I think the reason people are talking about this is 0:17:03.201 --> 0:17:05.281 not because he sold the apartment. It's not because he 0:17:05.321 --> 0:17:07.921 made money on it, and frankly, even the tax situation, 0:17:08.241 --> 0:17:12.081 I mean, the brightline test is changing. He's gotten in 0:17:12.081 --> 0:17:14.121 ahead of that. But I mean, who wouldn't do that. 0:17:14.521 --> 0:17:17.841 That's just a logical thing to do. But I guess 0:17:18.001 --> 0:17:20.681 it was his reaction to it that I think is 0:17:20.961 --> 0:17:23.921 what it was. Very tone deaf. He said that thing. 0:17:23.921 --> 0:17:27.641 If we're going to criticize people for being successful, you know, 0:17:28.001 --> 0:17:31.241 I get it, I'm rich. That may be a slight paraphrase. 0:17:32.521 --> 0:17:33.401 I actually. 0:17:34.601 --> 0:17:37.921 Like it didn't for me, resonated a different way, which is, 0:17:38.521 --> 0:17:41.161 at a certain point, can we give up worrying about 0:17:41.241 --> 0:17:43.881 how much money he's got right and has he acted 0:17:43.961 --> 0:17:45.801 in his own self interest in this? No, I don't 0:17:45.801 --> 0:17:49.601 believe he has. Has he made some money on a property, yeah, 0:17:49.841 --> 0:17:53.361 and in that case, good on them. Basically, I don't. 0:17:53.801 --> 0:17:55.881 I think it's a misreading. I don't think he's being 0:17:56.081 --> 0:17:59.161 criticized for being successful. I think he's criticized for being 0:17:59.601 --> 0:18:02.281 tone deaf in a cost of living crisis, you know. 0:18:02.361 --> 0:18:04.201 I mean, he did, and it is his right to 0:18:04.241 --> 0:18:06.521 sell property that he owns, you know, but wealth is 0:18:06.601 --> 0:18:09.081 not a messed in a vacuum, you know. And I 0:18:09.241 --> 0:18:12.561 think this idea that oh, well I've made money and 0:18:12.721 --> 0:18:16.921 that's due to my entirely myself, that that's just never true. 0:18:17.681 --> 0:18:21.161 And I think, if you're making money, yeah, at a 0:18:21.321 --> 0:18:22.521 cost to other people. 0:18:22.801 --> 0:18:25.001 I thought, Look, I think he was responding to the 0:18:25.121 --> 0:18:27.441 questions that were like, oh, you've made this money, haven't 0:18:27.441 --> 0:18:30.561 paid any tax, and he I thought he was just saying, look, yes, 0:18:30.681 --> 0:18:33.881 I have made money out of it. And actually, the 0:18:33.921 --> 0:18:36.001 funny thing that I was kind of amused by was 0:18:36.161 --> 0:18:38.121 the word that we've got a new word for wealthy 0:18:38.321 --> 0:18:40.681 and as sorted, because that was the language he used. 0:18:40.681 --> 0:18:42.241 He said, I'm sorted. 0:18:42.321 --> 0:18:45.001 Yeah, yes, I've worked hard, I've done well in my 0:18:45.121 --> 0:18:47.881 career and I've done well, and look I'm sorted. And 0:18:48.241 --> 0:18:51.241 I think he was pushing back against this distraction like 0:18:51.321 --> 0:18:53.161 all the prime ministers sold a house and made money 0:18:53.201 --> 0:18:54.561 out of it. It's like, well, hang on a minute. 0:18:54.601 --> 0:18:56.201 You didn't want him to you wanted him to live, 0:18:56.241 --> 0:18:58.361 and you didn't want him to take an allowance, which 0:18:58.401 --> 0:19:00.161 he could have taken, but then it ended up didn't 0:19:00.281 --> 0:19:02.681 not taking which would have been which was a political 0:19:02.721 --> 0:19:05.401 mistake for him. But then you know, he moved into 0:19:05.841 --> 0:19:08.801 premier House and he's so he doesn't need his apartment. 0:19:08.921 --> 0:19:10.601 He could have rented it and continue to make money. 0:19:10.641 --> 0:19:11.481 Wouldn't have even been. 0:19:12.121 --> 0:19:13.041 Wouldn't have been a story. 0:19:13.161 --> 0:19:15.961