Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from news Talks B.
Speaker 2: And my first panelist, where would you go with? Let's go?
Speaker 2: I was going to say age before beauty, but that
Speaker 2: just gets me into trouble. That's an easy one, but
Speaker 2: let's just go with age and beauty. Of course it's
Speaker 2: Pete wolf Camp from the Resident Builder and here on
Speaker 2: news Talks a baptew.
Speaker 3: More of one less than the other. I think as
Speaker 3: time moves on, more.
Speaker 2: Of that means yes, I guess that's inevitably. Hey, by
Speaker 2: the way, I did enjoy you've actually come dressed for
Speaker 2: theme because I have. I got dressed up, especially the
Speaker 2: Hiver's CROSI I am, and they're not in sports mode,
Speaker 2: so you're ac accident waiting to happen.
Speaker 3: None of their Hivers bright orange they were.
Speaker 2: Are they your first pair?
Speaker 3: No? No, In fact, these I don't know how many
Speaker 3: pairs I've had. I've had one pair that I like
Speaker 3: so much that I actually tried to retread them. That
Speaker 3: being a combination of sort of thrift and dutchness and
Speaker 3: and things like that couldn't actually work that well.
Speaker 2: To be thrift in dutchness, you being of Dutch descent
Speaker 2: which wait to get away with that's right, and also
Speaker 2: joining me as editor of the New Zealand Gardener magazine.
Speaker 2: Joe McCarroll, God, Joe, how are you going?
Speaker 4: I am tickety booth?
Speaker 2: Tickety booth? Where does tickety boo come from? I've been
Speaker 2: looking at some of these expressions we take for granted,
Speaker 2: and I don't know. I just sometimes think, where.
Speaker 3: Does tickety booths love?
Speaker 2: It's very English, isn't it.
Speaker 4: It's just tickety boo origin story like down the mines
Speaker 4: when the children were coming back from their fourteen hours.
Speaker 3: Sho oh no, if the clock got to fourteen hours
Speaker 3: and your shift was up, then.
Speaker 2: It was tickety booth tickety bo Oh my goodness. Hopefully
Speaker 2: something more And isn't that? But anyway, by the way.
Speaker 3: We'll get a text on this, won't we.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we get texts all the time. By the way,
Speaker 2: you can text. You can text on nine two nine two. Right,
Speaker 2: let's get into it, shall we. So firstly I covered
Speaker 2: this because I've been doing afternoons this week. But the
Speaker 2: mood of the boardroom rankings, which were normally when I
Speaker 2: see the mood of the boardroom comes out, I'm sort
Speaker 2: of like, oh yeah, Murder of the Boardroom, And then
Speaker 2: I had a bit of a read it and actually
Speaker 2: found it quite interesting as to the perception of everyone's performances.
Speaker 2: The thing that initially stood out to me was that,
Speaker 2: and I think he might be happy about this that
Speaker 2: Christopher Luxen wasn't racked at the top. It was Erica Stanford,
Speaker 2: but five of his team members were racked above him.
Speaker 2: And I guess as a team builder, he'd be happy
Speaker 2: with that, wouldn't he, Pete.
Speaker 3: I suspect that he's not going to be sort of
Speaker 3: threatened or upset about that. That what he wants to
Speaker 3: do is have his ministers doing a good job. And
Speaker 3: if they're regarded by those people surveyed as doing a
Speaker 3: good job, and arguably even a better job than him,
Speaker 3: then that's great.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't shortened sweet there, Pete. What do you reckon? Joe?
Speaker 4: Oh? I mean, I could have predicted a lot of
Speaker 4: it before I read it, Like, I mean, I'm not
Speaker 4: particularly surprised that the business community are feeling pretty happy
Speaker 4: with the center right government. I think it aligns with
Speaker 4: what they're looking for. But I think it's interesting.
Speaker 2: I mean, well, that's right because the optimism had gone
Speaker 2: from a one point eight to two last year at
Speaker 2: a five to a three point two to three. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right, and that's that's generally what you probably referring to.
Speaker 4: Their Yeah, it's certainly no surprises, it's no surprises, But
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's interesting to how we should
Speaker 4: wait these things. You know, when you look at economic
Speaker 4: activity in New Zealand, it's so strongly driven by those SMEs.
Speaker 4: And so I'm not saying this isn't a cohort, but
Speaker 4: it is a cohort, and they have got a bias
Speaker 4: because what they think is this, you know, what makes
Speaker 4: them optimistic is an economy in which they can make money,
Speaker 4: which makes sense, which is.
Speaker 3: Also which they can employ people, create more wealth, those
Speaker 3: sorts of things downside to.
Speaker 4: That, well it's more than one of the factors. Then
Speaker 4: they don't consider as a factor like well being, workers' rights.
Speaker 4: You know, those are not factors which would improve the outlook.
Speaker 4: In my cynical view.
Speaker 3: You don't have workers if you don't have a business, right,
Speaker 3: So let's have business and then we'll sort out the reason.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, and I see what you're saying, but
Speaker 4: I'm like you know, if let's have business, let's sort
Speaker 4: out the rest. I mean, that's kind of what we're
Speaker 4: talking about now with some of the policy that's been
Speaker 4: rolled out where it's like, just cut the red tape,
Speaker 4: and you think, oh, and I'm conflicted about it. I
Speaker 4: see the temptation to say cut the red tape, but
Speaker 4: I'm like, some of that red tape it's protecting us
Speaker 4: as well as long it's down.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I see that. But then you look at Erica
Speaker 3: Stanford and I was watching a clip with her talking
Speaker 3: about education. Right, so they did a big review of
Speaker 3: what's going on with the how the Ministry of Education
Speaker 3: has been administering school properties. Basiclyne terribly right.
Speaker 2: So that's actually a ripper of a store.
Speaker 3: It's a fantastic out.
Speaker 2: It's a shockhead. Just one and a half million to
Speaker 2: two million dollars to build a classroom.
Speaker 4: Honestly, can we get it.
Speaker 3: Don't get too hysterical about that figure though, You've got
Speaker 3: to kind of crunch some numbers on that.
Speaker 2: And a classroom doesn't even have I mean, it doesn't
Speaker 2: even have a toilet, it doesn't have a kitchen.
Speaker 3: Also, we're not talking about a classroom like you know,
Speaker 3: most of us would imagine classrooms that we sat in
Speaker 3: as children or something like that. Classrooms are not like that,
Speaker 3: And it might be reflective of the sorts of buildings
Speaker 3: that the MOE have been doing recently, often slightly more elaborate.
Speaker 3: They're part of larger complexes, they've got more amenity in
Speaker 3: them and so on. But I still think that, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm doing the numbers still on stretch at the school.
Speaker 3: I'm on a board of trustees, right, so we've done
Speaker 3: a recent building project and I know what the numbers are,
Speaker 3: and I know what the classroom rate would be, and
Speaker 3: it's considerably less than that. Now that's not done by
Speaker 3: m o E. That's done by the diocese basically.
Speaker 2: So e hey, no, I didn't mean done by we
Speaker 2: are digressing. I guess the thing was. I mean, I
Speaker 2: actually thought when you said no surprises, Joe, that you
Speaker 2: were talking about the rankings as well, which had what
Speaker 2: was it, Erica Stanford number one.
Speaker 4: I think Erica Stanford's performing. Yeah, you know, I think
Speaker 4: she's a future leader of the National Party and probably
Speaker 4: a Prime Minister of New Zealand. I think she has
Speaker 4: been brilliant in her ministerial portfolio. But yeah, I mean
Speaker 4: I think there was no surprises there for me. I
Speaker 4: think the people who were judging it, they waited it
Speaker 4: as I would have expected based on the position they're
Speaker 4: experiencing life from.
Speaker 3: There was an interesting article too, I think Matthew Houghton
Speaker 3: went to that border the mood of the boardroom and
Speaker 3: wrote a piece going because there was also the discussion
Speaker 3: between Labor and National around superannuation, and his comments were
Speaker 3: along the lines of these are the two people who
Speaker 3: should be leading the country, which I thought was fascinating
Speaker 3: as well. Who said Edmonds and Nichola Willis So I
Speaker 3: had a debate about superannuation. And I think his reflection
Speaker 3: on being in the room and I haven't a chance
Speaker 3: to look at the debate yet, was actually, these two
Speaker 3: people should be leading the country.
Speaker 4: And that's a good sign. It's a good sign when
Speaker 4: there are leaders in waiting, and it's a good sign
Speaker 4: when there's intelligence at the top in all parties. Yes,
Speaker 4: well maybe not all parties.
Speaker 2: Well, I know it'll be interesting because if we have
Speaker 2: the same opinion on which parties might be struggling in
Speaker 2: that one but the other one. Actually, the interesting thing
Speaker 2: for Luxeon Christopher Luxon was that he had key performance
Speaker 2: in and this is why I think he'd be happy
Speaker 2: with it, because they were things about, you know, selling
Speaker 2: New Zealand and branding and about ten different things, but
Speaker 2: the one he scored four point four I think out
Speaker 2: of five was his ability to build a good team
Speaker 2: and everything, which is exactly how he has pitched his
Speaker 2: Prime ministership. So I would say he should be he
Speaker 2: should be pretty pretty happy with that, do you think, Pete.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And it always surprised me at the lead up
Speaker 3: to the election last year that the pitch for National
Speaker 3: was not more along lines of here's our team and
Speaker 3: here's your team effectively, because I think they did bring
Speaker 3: to the table a lot of people with a hell
Speaker 3: of a lot more qualifications and ability than Labor did,
Speaker 3: and maybe that's why the election went the way that
Speaker 3: it did. So I think in that sense, if he
Speaker 3: ends up being lower down the ranking and he's able
Speaker 3: to put a team forward, that goes, actually, here's my
Speaker 3: high performance because they're the ones actually doing the work.
Speaker 3: If I've got someone doing infrastructure, then I want my
Speaker 3: best person doing that. I don't have to do it.
Speaker 3: I have to make sure that they do it. Well,
Speaker 3: that's good leadership. I would have thought I.
Speaker 2: Would have thought so. And it's consistent with the way
Speaker 2: he's been selling his leadership, I guess, isn't it. Joe.
Speaker 4: He absolutely I mean, he has never made any secret
Speaker 4: that he is running the country like you would run
Speaker 4: a business. And I see some upsides to that. But
Speaker 4: in the end of country is not a business, sure actually,
Speaker 4: and I think that is where you get the downside.
Speaker 4: I mean, those KPIs, I think it would be if
Speaker 4: we had more time to really tease them and say,
Speaker 4: is this delivering a new Zealand that for vulnerable people?
Speaker 4: And I'm not sure they are. I think they they're
Speaker 4: delivering more for people who already have more hot take.
Speaker 2: See. I know, I think I'd probably disagree with that
Speaker 2: because I think that you can't you can't distribute tax
Speaker 2: unless you're making money and having productive economy. And I
Speaker 2: think there is I think we sort of can have
Speaker 2: hopefully a cake can eat it too. But fun facts
Speaker 2: before we get into it. There's one found fact I
Speaker 2: really loved, and it's just that an old school campaigner,
Speaker 2: guess who was one ahead of luxen By. He was
Speaker 2: on three point seven to three on three point seven
Speaker 2: four with Studith Collins, which enjoyed that. But here's another
Speaker 2: fun fact. I actually did cover this in the afternoons.
Speaker 2: Did you know Erica Stanford, I think considered almost a
Speaker 2: music deger and I had a meeting because I might
Speaker 2: be doing as I might be doing Christmas concert with
Speaker 2: them with a particular brass band, and that's been hosted
Speaker 2: in the past by Erica Stanford, who apparently plays a
Speaker 2: mean besides heard that and actually here, I mean, she's
Speaker 2: a bit out of practice in this one, I'd say,
Speaker 2: because she's been enough like twenty three years. It's a
Speaker 2: few years she left school. But we've got a little
Speaker 2: clip of it. I think, am we big job there?
Speaker 2: Pits change anyway. I just think it's interesting when you
Speaker 2: hear about humanized something in Parliament, and it was funny
Speaker 2: watching her suddenly go from joking around and being like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to play this thing and she's just the determination.
Speaker 2: Just a little bit of a fun fact for you there.
Speaker 2: Let's let's move it on a bit because from someone
Speaker 2: who wasn't going to probably in the mood of the boardroom,
Speaker 2: be a superstar, perhaps not in the in the top
Speaker 2: top it was Casey Cassello. I don't think now it's
Speaker 2: it's easy. Let's not talk about the arguments so much
Speaker 2: of whether you know, smoking versus heated tobacco versus vapes.
Speaker 2: I think the problem for her is the whole argument
Speaker 2: has got lost because she has not handled this issue
Speaker 2: at all well. And I think she's a I still
Speaker 2: think she's a massive chink in the armor of a
Speaker 2: government that might consider in many respects it's doing well.
Speaker 2: Casey Costello is not doing well as.
Speaker 4: She Jo Gacy Costello is a hot mess. I mean,
Speaker 4: I don't think she's coming across as competent, you know.
Speaker 4: And I mean there's a lot of swirling swellings, narratives
Speaker 4: about conspiracies and that multimately not a tax breaks for
Speaker 4: you know. And I think if you were going to conspire,
Speaker 4: pick a more effective person, you know, Because yeah, I
Speaker 4: think she's she is a massive failing in the government.
Speaker 2: Right now. I would say, well, I failed to well
Speaker 2: absolutely when I've got you here for your view, but
Speaker 2: we're all going to be on a similar page on
Speaker 2: this one. I think Joe, because she talked about this
Speaker 2: independent advice she had and she would eventually give it
Speaker 2: looked like she just.
Speaker 4: Went she and printed something off the internet.
Speaker 2: Now, I reckon she either just went Now where were
Speaker 2: those articles that got sent to me by a particular person.
Speaker 2: I'd love to know if it was just someone a
Speaker 2: lobbyist for the stuff, who said, hey, have a read
Speaker 2: of these, or she'd lost it and she just went,
Speaker 2: I better google this heated tobacco versus vapes and smoking
Speaker 2: and just found five or sex articles.
Speaker 3: Even make your point, I mean, I just think the
Speaker 3: idea of going and saying I've got some research and
Speaker 3: then not being able to provide that research undermines your
Speaker 3: credibility immediately.
Speaker 4: I think there's been a lot of you know, the
Speaker 4: record can't be found. I can't find that documentation. Like
Speaker 4: I say, it feels chaotic.
Speaker 2: And here's the thing though, But I reckon if she
Speaker 2: was a national MP, I think she would have been
Speaker 2: shifted out in the same way we've seen already happen.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, gone. But she's a New Zealand first MP,
Speaker 2: and I think while i've been I have sung Winston's
Speaker 2: praises as our foreign minister, and I've loved him telling
Speaker 2: off the Russians and all that sort of stuff. I
Speaker 2: hope he doesn't defend her to the detriment of the government,
Speaker 2: because I actually think she needs to be shifted on.
Speaker 4: And I think and I understand I am singing from
Speaker 4: my own song here and perhaps agreement, but I think
Speaker 4: this is a mark of luxe and being slightly powerless.
Speaker 4: He can't act because I think he's terrified ab upsetting Winston.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's powerless. It's just a reflection
Speaker 3: of the fact that they are in coalition, right, and
Speaker 3: that what you do is in some way moderated by
Speaker 3: your partners.
Speaker 4: I think those coalition should be weighted based on the
Speaker 4: proportional representation. I think those decisions should be weighted in
Speaker 4: terms of who New Zealand has voted for, and I
Speaker 4: think in that sense there's too much sway held by
Speaker 4: the two minor parties.
Speaker 2: I guess it's about the look. It's also no coalition.
Speaker 2: I don't think could have one party say I want
Speaker 2: you to well, I don't know, because she's what is
Speaker 2: she is. Yeah, I don't know what the what the
Speaker 2: rules would be long term because we've had we had
Speaker 2: the last three years where labored enough to account to
Speaker 2: anyone except themselves. And I wonder if we still haven't
Speaker 2: worked out what coalition politics looks like, which probably asked
Speaker 2: them what they do. In Germany they have a coalition
Speaker 2: of that's quite amazingly coupled together coalitions.
Speaker 3: But I think you're right. I mean, the hard thing
Speaker 3: must be that people in national must know that this
Speaker 3: person is now liability to our government, which includes us and.
Speaker 4: Two and two in the next generation. I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: these aren't decisions that are sort of meaningless in terms
Speaker 4: of the consequences. I mean, I'm genuinely quite sad to
Speaker 4: think that the movement we were making towards smoke free
Speaker 4: to New Zealand is just being squandered.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, thing is, it's predicated on the idea that
Speaker 2: you can ban something and I just don't think you could.
Speaker 2: I think that we are still trending downward with smoke.
Speaker 2: It still shocks me the number of people at smoke
Speaker 2: though it's like ten percent. I mean, it's a surprisingly
Speaker 2: large number of people when I don't know anyone who smokes.
Speaker 4: We are trending downwards on smoking, but we are like
Speaker 4: strocking on vaping, and I mean that is shocking because
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 2: You're not going to ban that either. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: the thing.
Speaker 4: But it's been so rearly targeted at young people.
Speaker 3: And it's simple things to do about it. Make it prescription.
Speaker 4: Plane packaging, prescription only vape stores.
Speaker 2: It's complicated. Hey, look, I think we might take quick
Speaker 2: break and we'll come back and see about how people
Speaker 2: got hot and hot under the collar about Crys Relux
Speaker 2: and daring to sell Hiss apartment and actually makes some
Speaker 2: money out of it. Well, I suspect he might have
Speaker 2: spent a fear whack of it.
Speaker 4: Will be interested to know.
Speaker 5: I have Okay, twenty three past three News Talk, Yes
Speaker 5: where everything.
Speaker 2: For the Great Heisman, Zim Wogle book mon Tiger.
Speaker 1: Was Master.
Speaker 2: And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. This is the panel.
Speaker 2: My panelist Joe mccarell, editor of The New Zealand Garden,
Speaker 2: and Pete wolf Camp, resident builder Here on news Talk
Speaker 2: zaid b. Now just on the continue a little bit
Speaker 2: of politics. The so Christopher Luxon has moved into Premier House.
Speaker 2: He didn't sound actually that thrilled about being there today.
Speaker 2: It's like it's all right.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 2: And and the other news, of course, which the news
Speaker 2: one News banged on about for a while, a big
Speaker 2: headline that somebody has sold alse in Wellington and made
Speaker 2: money PABs Maybe I don't know, but the apartment was
Speaker 2: last sold for seven hundred and ninety five thousand, and
Speaker 2: I think it's been I think he made a profit
Speaker 2: of around one hundred and seventy not taking into account
Speaker 2: what he spent on it. I actually didn't think this
Speaker 2: was such a I mean, it's newsworthy, I guess because
Speaker 2: people want to know what it was. But I'm not
Speaker 2: sure what point he was making.
Speaker 3: Pain The headline just enormously upset me, and not upset me,
Speaker 3: just made me furious because of the nature of the headline.
Speaker 3: So the headline is luxant avoids tax.
Speaker 2: No, that was mischievous, wasn't it. That's right?
Speaker 3: No, no, no, there's no tax to pay on capital gain. Now,
Speaker 3: whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, that's
Speaker 3: up to you. But suggesting you know that the whole
Speaker 3: thing around tax avoidance right.
Speaker 2: Is such a hot topic.
Speaker 3: That's just so mischievous and nasty to be blunt, it
Speaker 3: really annoyed me.
Speaker 2: Joe.
Speaker 4: I think the reason people are talking about this is
Speaker 4: not because he sold the apartment. It's not because he
Speaker 4: made money on it, and frankly, even the tax situation,
Speaker 4: I mean, the brightline test is changing. He's gotten in
Speaker 4: ahead of that. But I mean, who wouldn't do that.
Speaker 4: That's just a logical thing to do. But I guess
Speaker 4: it was his reaction to it that I think is
Speaker 4: what it was. Very tone deaf. He said that thing.
Speaker 4: If we're going to criticize people for being successful, you know,
Speaker 4: I get it, I'm rich. That may be a slight paraphrase.
Speaker 2: I actually.
Speaker 3: Like it didn't for me, resonated a different way, which is,
Speaker 3: at a certain point, can we give up worrying about
Speaker 3: how much money he's got right and has he acted
Speaker 3: in his own self interest in this? No, I don't
Speaker 3: believe he has. Has he made some money on a property, yeah,
Speaker 3: and in that case, good on them. Basically, I don't.
Speaker 4: I think it's a misreading. I don't think he's being
Speaker 4: criticized for being successful. I think he's criticized for being
Speaker 4: tone deaf in a cost of living crisis, you know.
Speaker 4: I mean, he did, and it is his right to
Speaker 4: sell property that he owns, you know, but wealth is
Speaker 4: not a messed in a vacuum, you know. And I
Speaker 4: think this idea that oh, well I've made money and
Speaker 4: that's due to my entirely myself, that that's just never true.
Speaker 4: And I think, if you're making money, yeah, at a
Speaker 4: cost to other people.
Speaker 2: I thought, Look, I think he was responding to the
Speaker 2: questions that were like, oh, you've made this money, haven't
Speaker 2: paid any tax, and he I thought he was just saying, look, yes,
Speaker 2: I have made money out of it. And actually, the
Speaker 2: funny thing that I was kind of amused by was
Speaker 2: the word that we've got a new word for wealthy
Speaker 2: and as sorted, because that was the language he used.
Speaker 3: He said, I'm sorted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I've worked hard, I've done well in my
Speaker 2: career and I've done well, and look I'm sorted. And
Speaker 2: I think he was pushing back against this distraction like
Speaker 2: all the prime ministers sold a house and made money
Speaker 2: out of it. It's like, well, hang on a minute.
Speaker 2: You didn't want him to you wanted him to live,
Speaker 2: and you didn't want him to take an allowance, which
Speaker 2: he could have taken, but then it ended up didn't
Speaker 2: not taking which would have been which was a political
Speaker 2: mistake for him. But then you know, he moved into
Speaker 2: premier House and he's so he doesn't need his apartment.
Speaker 2: He could have rented it and continue to make money.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't have even been.
Speaker 3: Wouldn't have been a story.
Speaker 2: I just think it's interesting that he sold it in
Speaker 2: a market that's pretty flat managed to make money, which
Speaker 2: tells me.
Speaker 3: And it's a good property location.
Speaker 2: Well, the real estate agent hinted, he said, they've done
Speaker 2: a lot of they've done a lot to it, and
Speaker 2: Amanda Luxen had done a lot, had very good taste
Speaker 2: with what she'd done. But we never had that presented
Speaker 2: by the news. It was just like al hes sold
Speaker 2: it and made money, naughty him, and he avoids tax.
Speaker 2: It's like I thought it was just the avoidance thing
Speaker 2: just really wound me up. Well, because it is a
Speaker 2: word that describes, Yeah, it's that you've deliberately tried to
Speaker 2: avoid tax. It's a it is a taxation related word.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I actually agree with you on that.
Speaker 3: I think that's more.
Speaker 4: Of it in an egregious way. But at the same time,
Speaker 4: I just think he sold that property. He sold another
Speaker 4: property owned and he has the absolute right to do.
Speaker 2: That, absolutely.
Speaker 4: But that's probably five or six times the median income.
Speaker 4: You know that you've made tax free and on top
Speaker 4: of tax cuts that I think the benefit of which
Speaker 4: is felt more by people at the top of the heap,
Speaker 4: and at the same time saying we can't afford the
Speaker 4: denaed in the hospital.
Speaker 3: There's not a theory that actually still an apartment is
Speaker 3: not going to change the numbers on them.
Speaker 4: I absolutely agree, but I just think it is tone deaf.
Speaker 4: I think he just fails to read the room. I
Speaker 4: think he should have shown a lot more humility.
Speaker 2: I don't know how what would he do though to
Speaker 2: show humility? Yes, I mean, if you're going to be humble,
Speaker 2: you'd be like, yes, I've made money, and yes I'm
Speaker 2: successful already. You could say he's being arrogant just by
Speaker 2: pointing out facts, you know what I mean, How could
Speaker 2: he be humble? He could lie and so I'm not
Speaker 2: as rich as people think on there are people who
Speaker 2: are much richer. That would be a false humility. I
Speaker 2: don't know if he can win this one, you see, Joe.
Speaker 3: I do think that he probably got hopped by someone
Speaker 3: reached the point where it's like, come on, we've got I'm.
Speaker 2: Still delighted that he said if rick In I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: naughty that was a different interview of Justin.
Speaker 3: I think Joe, to your point where he was perhaps
Speaker 3: tone deaf, was claiming the accommodation benefit on that property
Speaker 3: at the beginning.
Speaker 4: I think we've talked about that before. I think that
Speaker 4: was completely tone deaf.
Speaker 3: And good onor for stepping and straight away realizing it's
Speaker 3: going to be a problem. I'm going to pay the
Speaker 3: money back, I'm going to stop claiming it. And now
Speaker 3: I suppose by moving into premier house and selling the apartment,
Speaker 3: it's all off the board, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I would have no problem with any of that.
Speaker 4: But I think if you are lucky enough to be
Speaker 4: successful and be comfortable and have money, part of that
Speaker 4: is luck and good fortune and a lot of people
Speaker 4: who have helped you on the way.
Speaker 3: And I find it, along with a bit of luck
Speaker 3: and a little bit of good fortune, is some bloody
Speaker 3: hard work a lot. So I'm thinking, you know, there
Speaker 3: are over six hundred thousand rental properties in the country,
Speaker 3: about seventy eight percent of them are owned by people
Speaker 3: that own one or two rental properties. Now, most of
Speaker 3: those people, and I know a bunch of them, are
Speaker 3: people that have set aside money, that have scripted and
Speaker 3: saved and you know, looked after themselves so that they're
Speaker 3: not a burden on the government going forward. I don't
Speaker 3: think we should diminish that and the hard work that
Speaker 3: those people do at all.
Speaker 4: Oh, and I don't intend to, you know, I completely
Speaker 4: agree with you. I mean, I think there's something fundamentally
Speaker 4: wrong with the basis of our economy is selling each
Speaker 4: other secondhand houses. I mean, I think that is a flaw,
Speaker 4: but that's not the fault of people who own them.
Speaker 3: This is great, but there's some hard lessons in that too,
Speaker 3: because you know, and look, it's like I've got a
Speaker 3: second you know, Like for me, what influences me is
Speaker 3: like my mum and dad they retired or dad sold
Speaker 3: the business years ago. They put some money into shares
Speaker 3: in New Zealand shares in nineteen eighty six. Right, they
Speaker 3: went from two dollars fifty they were down to four
Speaker 3: cents a couple of years ago. They might be back
Speaker 3: to two dollars fifty hour. Right, so that they did
Speaker 3: the right thing. Put it into a productive asset. They
Speaker 3: put money into a buddy finance company that went ballly up.
Speaker 3: If they had a border rental property. All those years ago,
Speaker 3: they would have been so much better off. No wonder
Speaker 3: people buy rental properties.
Speaker 2: Oh, no, wonder, that's a whole. That's almost we're moving
Speaker 2: the conversation on. We'll be talking about cgts again and
Speaker 2: we'll be in the property how so we'll have to
Speaker 2: move on, all right, But thanks kids. Hey, by the way,
Speaker 2: just quickly on the politics before we take a break.
Speaker 2: Chris Bushop is open to new tolls to fun roadst
Speaker 2: Do you mind tolls? I don't mind them them as
Speaker 2: long as there's an option to go yes, route B.
Speaker 2: And that's where I think for the people in the
Speaker 2: wire upper right in this new road over the over
Speaker 2: the hills there, that shouldn't be told, right because that's
Speaker 2: replacing something that's broken. Yeah, and that has still been
Speaker 2: consulted on to be fair, So we don't know what's
Speaker 2: going to happen.
Speaker 3: That would distink if they told me.
Speaker 2: But do you mind tell new roads tolls?
Speaker 4: I think like you to him, If it's a bypass
Speaker 4: that saves time and there is an alternate route, I
Speaker 4: think we have to pay for public infrastructure.
Speaker 3: Drive to walk with in the new motorway. Do you
Speaker 3: want to save two dollars eighty by tootling along the
Speaker 3: old State.
Speaker 2: No, boy, I tell you what the tolls I mean,
Speaker 2: they've got a lot of them in Europe, but you
Speaker 2: them because either run to take the scene at route
Speaker 2: or you want to go quickly for me to be
Speaker 2: But the one that did my head and was luckily
Speaker 2: I had a pass which got me a discount on it.
Speaker 2: But the return toll through the mont Blanc Tunnel from
Speaker 2: Shamo total fifty four euro. Fifty four euro. And I said,
Speaker 2: I hang on, man, I forgot this pass here, and
Speaker 2: I showed him a ski pass. He goes, are lucky,
Speaker 2: You're lucky. You show me that's sixteen that even then
Speaker 2: sixteen euro.
Speaker 3: That's the toll road and tall.
Speaker 2: Wronger.
Speaker 3: That's enormously disappointing, right, It's like.
Speaker 4: It's like about a kilometer lost.
Speaker 3: It's not even I.
Speaker 2: Guess doesn't feel grand kilometer is like a ripoff. If
Speaker 2: that kilometer saved you twenty kilometers.
Speaker 3: You'd be like, doesn't no, exactly, that's underwhelming that one, ah, right.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's worth the two dollars eighty I
Speaker 4: paid to drive on it.
Speaker 3: No, I got to the end of it when said
Speaker 3: it like I was hoping for more.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean when it first opened, I remember thinking, oh,
Speaker 2: this is quite fun. Anyway, that was back in the
Speaker 2: days where I remember driving those round around some of
Speaker 2: those rough raids in my nineteen seventy one forty escort.
Speaker 2: Was always more entertaining to take the long route, to
Speaker 2: be honest, yep, that's how I learned how to do
Speaker 2: a bit of rally driving in between roder and taring.
Speaker 2: That was great fun after at ten o'clock at night. Anyway,
Speaker 2: as we're going to be back with more, including just
Speaker 2: a good news I mean not good news, it's not
Speaker 2: news really, but hopeful news that there's been another sighting
Speaker 2: of the Mara Coopa a lot today with a sighting
Speaker 2: of Tom Phillips and god, I hope they actually catch them.
Speaker 2: But we'll be back in a minute to discuss that
Speaker 2: and other things. This is the panel on News Talk
Speaker 2: Sai'd be week in Collective. It's twenty three minutes to
Speaker 2: four finer. That's fun, Live Religion and welcome back to
Speaker 2: the Weekend Collective. This is the panel and I'm Tim Beverage,
Speaker 2: I'm my guests Joe mccarell and Pete wolf Camp just correicktly'
Speaker 2: there's not really too much to say about this, but
Speaker 2: the fresh in quarries after there's been another tip on
Speaker 2: the Maracopa family, Tom Phillips and has three children apparently
Speaker 2: being spotted by some peak hunters and some bushmen near Maracopa,
Speaker 2: reporting to police on Thursday. I do get optimistic, Pete,
Speaker 2: when I hear these stories reported and it's you know,
Speaker 2: a couple of days later, it's been reported now that
Speaker 2: hopefully they're closing the net and there's going to be
Speaker 2: an announcement that they have been found. But I mean,
Speaker 2: how long has it been?
Speaker 3: What was the reward that was out a little while ago,
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand lead seemingly Yeah, so you know, if
Speaker 3: somebody knows, they obviously don't want to say, which is
Speaker 3: remarkable that you'd give up the chance to get eighty grand?
Speaker 2: Yeah. How much would you need to sell out someone
Speaker 2: who was close to you?
Speaker 4: Though, Joe, I'm thinking about it. I think though you're
Speaker 4: dealing with people who because I mean, my view which
Speaker 4: is based on nothing like I've got no ine info here,
Speaker 4: but I'm like, someone is supporting this family and they
Speaker 4: are doing it for ideological reasons. They're not doing it just,
Speaker 4: you know, to help out a mate or something. It's
Speaker 4: gone beyond just you know, this is someone someone's doing
Speaker 4: this for reasons of deep seated an ideology they believe.
Speaker 2: In, possibly, and they're making it. They're doing huge damage
Speaker 2: to those kids, huge damage. I mean, it's awful, teaching
Speaker 2: them to be outcast from society and mistrust authority in
Speaker 2: all society, other members of their family. It's just I
Speaker 2: think he's just it's the It's deplorable, absolutely.
Speaker 4: And I think we are in really one hundred percent
Speaker 4: agreement on that, and I think most of New Zealand
Speaker 4: would be right.
Speaker 2: Let's let's move on. Hey, more happy things. This is
Speaker 2: there's quas, some inflammatory topics and in our panel is
Speaker 2: this afternoon more than half the population. So the census
Speaker 2: has been done. I mean, I guess there was a
Speaker 2: bit of a question about how well they actually collated
Speaker 2: the census and collected but let's move on from that.
Speaker 2: But the proportion of people with no religion has increased
Speaker 2: from forty eight point two percent of the population in
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen to now more than half fifty one point
Speaker 2: six percent, so just over half of us are not religious.
Speaker 2: I would say, depends whether or not you count being
Speaker 2: a fan of Taylor Swift's religion, in which case you
Speaker 2: might reverse that number.
Speaker 3: But I think they're looking at formal religions.
Speaker 2: For I know, I'm just I'm being asking mischievous. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm doing this, but I mean in a way. That's
Speaker 2: the point I'm making is that I think even if
Speaker 2: people aren't following formal religion, they're substitu tuating it with
Speaker 2: other sorts of worship, whether they be of celebrities or whatever.
Speaker 2: But what do you make of it? Peter, You're a
Speaker 2: good Catholic bl an't you? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Well maybe not. Good Catholics are very naughty.
Speaker 2: He's not the Messiah.
Speaker 3: It's a very naughty buye.
Speaker 2: I tell you what.
Speaker 3: My response this is what's fascinating, given that I've got
Speaker 3: some involvement in the sense with Catholic education. Is one
Speaker 3: of the things about Catholic education is, and I guess
Speaker 3: religious education in general, it's oversubscribed.
Speaker 5: What is so?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: I know, for example, at our college we had seen
Speaker 3: out about one hundred and seventy I'm sorry, we don't
Speaker 3: ever letters, right, so over subscribed. So people are still
Speaker 3: suggesting good schools or is it because they're good schools
Speaker 3: because they're Catholic schools?
Speaker 2: Or this becomes a bit of a competition, almost, doesn't it.
Speaker 3: Life's competition, so over it?
Speaker 2: What do you reckon?
Speaker 4: I mean, I think in terms of the school thing,
Speaker 4: I'm a bit more cynical about that. I think there's
Speaker 4: a lot of parents who might suddenly discover a faith
Speaker 4: when it turns out that they don't want their kid
Speaker 4: to attend the public school in their zone, and they
Speaker 4: might shout for church, you know, quite regularly over that
Speaker 4: high school period, and then perhaps you know, drift away.
Speaker 2: But I mean that doesn't mean they're going to fill
Speaker 2: out that the census has been Catholic though? Is it
Speaker 2: because as private?
Speaker 4: But I further your point to him, I think, you know,
Speaker 4: people are still seeking things to believe in, sure, and
Speaker 4: that's I mean Taylor Swift. I mean, that's perhaps something
Speaker 4: people might not think was a serious thing. But you know,
Speaker 4: I think people are still spiritually hungry and they want meaning.
Speaker 4: But I think in my life, our sort of feelings around.
Speaker 3: Religion have changed.
Speaker 4: I mean, I was raised in the Catholic Church myself,
Speaker 4: and back then it was sort of religion was almost
Speaker 4: an unqualified good. And now I think religion and that's
Speaker 4: not to say that religion isn't a good and there
Speaker 4: aren't wonderful religious people who live a life of real
Speaker 4: meaning and real faith and really contribute. But the religion
Speaker 4: is tarnished, the idea of religion is tarnished. Why because
Speaker 4: of a lot of news stories.
Speaker 2: We've heard people doing terrible things in the people doing.
Speaker 4: Terrible things in the name of religion, and that is
Speaker 4: not the religion itself. I just want to be really clear,
Speaker 4: but I think that in my lifetime it has been
Speaker 4: a really fundamental change.
Speaker 3: Yep, I certainly see that. And I think, you know,
Speaker 3: the whole notions around you know, traditionality and so on,
Speaker 3: those things have changed a lot. Life like. It's a
Speaker 3: bit more ephemeral, and so people are not as wedded
Speaker 3: to those traditions. That changes things. Look, the numbers haven't
Speaker 3: dropped traumatically. They have dropped a little bit, So I'm
Speaker 3: not surprised at all.
Speaker 2: I mean, I went through a stage of being well,
Speaker 2: I've been I went through a stage of being quite
Speaker 2: anti religious, but that was probably because of the things
Speaker 2: people are doing, which were terrorist acts in the name
Speaker 2: of religion and things like that, and so I'm more
Speaker 2: in the Christopher Hitchins school of things, but I've sort
Speaker 2: of softened on in that respect. And that look, as
Speaker 2: long as if what you believe in informs you or
Speaker 2: inspires you to be a better person and to think
Speaker 2: about your fellow man or woman, should I say then great.
Speaker 2: I think where religion where the religious debates get a
Speaker 2: bit tricky, especially in politics, is when people bring religion
Speaker 2: into politics and say, I believe in this particular thing,
Speaker 2: and therefore I'm going to tell you that this is
Speaker 2: the way you should be living your life. And I
Speaker 2: think that that's the thing I would push back against
Speaker 2: the most. And we see it probably, oh, we obviously
Speaker 2: see it very in I mean, who wants to be
Speaker 2: a woman in Iran? I'm sorry, but you know the
Speaker 2: choice a woman in America? Yeah, well, I mean come on,
Speaker 2: I mean, seriously, it's a free country. But there are
Speaker 2: problems with politics and religion, and I push back against
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. I mean, fair enough, I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, it's a pretty important part of my life,
Speaker 3: so I'm not going to hide from that.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, my kids go to a Catholic school.
Speaker 2: My wife's Catholic.
Speaker 3: I mean that's yeah, our son goes to a Catholic school.
Speaker 3: I think that the school and the wider organization does
Speaker 3: a tremendous job. So yeah, I'm not going to back
Speaker 3: down from that.
Speaker 2: Oh, I wasn't anticipating. That's a good point, I'm to me.
Speaker 3: But I also appreciate the fact that for other people
Speaker 3: it's not important, and that's absolutely okay.
Speaker 4: But well, actually, I think and this is not coming
Speaker 4: from a person who has a religious faith or all
Speaker 4: of the religious faith, but I think it's a bit
Speaker 4: of a shame because what I think that reflects is
Speaker 4: the increasing individualism. Yeah, lives we lead, and I think
Speaker 4: that limits us. I think it makes us less connected
Speaker 4: to each other. I think we achieve less if we're
Speaker 4: just all out for ourselves. And I think although there
Speaker 4: were clearly pluses and minuses to the traditional kind of
Speaker 4: church structure, it was collective.
Speaker 2: Yes. Actually, by the way, just you know, putting all
Speaker 2: aside whether the supernatural side be true. My favorite thing
Speaker 2: from the Christian religion is and something I because I
Speaker 2: was raised that way as well, the value of love
Speaker 2: thy neighbor, who is thy neighbor, anyone who is going
Speaker 2: to be affected by the consequence as a consequence of
Speaker 2: my actions and always, And I just think that that
Speaker 2: is such an amazing message. Regardless of that's.
Speaker 4: True in so many different faiths, that message exists, you know,
Speaker 4: and I think that is a really profound thing. And
Speaker 4: you don't have to be religious to take that on board,
Speaker 4: to think about it, to live by that mantra.
Speaker 3: I guess the challenge is always if you're not religious,
Speaker 3: where do you get that from?
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, this is that we could do. We could do,
Speaker 2: probably need to go on too Frank Frank's show to
Speaker 2: discuss things.
Speaker 3: I guess what I'm not saying it's not possible because
Speaker 3: it is. Well, I mean, the example is the challenges
Speaker 3: from where and how readily accessible and so on. Whereas
Speaker 3: you've got all this tradition in the Christian churches anyway,
Speaker 3: around a life of service, around as you say, love
Speaker 3: your neighbor, those sorts of things are there and there
Speaker 3: to be learned.
Speaker 2: If I was going to score a cheap point on
Speaker 2: this pete, it would be to say that, yes, the
Speaker 2: argument about you don't need religion to do good things,
Speaker 2: there is an argument to do the most horrific things.
Speaker 2: You only need to look in some of the religious
Speaker 2: text to find all the justification you need because we
Speaker 2: cherry pick. But that is such a cheap, quick point
Speaker 2: to make. But to be honest, you can think of it.
Speaker 2: If you want to go and find the most horrendous
Speaker 2: invocations to do things nastily to people, you'll find them
Speaker 2: in religious text. And I think in the end, I
Speaker 2: think in humanity we pick and choose our own morality.
Speaker 2: But gosh, this conversation's really going to sort of unwekend
Speaker 2: collective sort of panelis territory, but you know there it is. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 2: but I you know, I love thy neighbor and that's
Speaker 2: why I love you guys, and I've probably we should
Speaker 2: probably move on because we've got really big issues to discuss,
Speaker 2: and just to teck because Crocs or Jandles one is
Speaker 2: a lot more dangerous than the other, and we will
Speaker 2: touch on that in just a moment, as ten minutes
Speaker 2: before the.
Speaker 3: Story is coming up. Folks, Yep, welcome back.
Speaker 2: To the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverages. This is the panel.
Speaker 2: My guests to Joe McCarroll, and Pete wolf Camp. Now
Speaker 2: this actually was a misleading headlines, guys, but because I've
Speaker 2: got really was fascinated with a story about the amount
Speaker 2: of money that's been handled out by acc for injuries
Speaker 2: for high heels, Jandles and crocs. But it implied that
Speaker 2: Crocs were the big villain here and aligned much malign.
Speaker 3: I've taking it personally.
Speaker 2: Do you know the numbers on this, Joe, because it
Speaker 2: was surprising that Crocs out of two million, only sixty
Speaker 2: three thousand bucks.
Speaker 3: Not two million dollars.
Speaker 4: White, by the way, absolutely shocked me, yes, is that
Speaker 4: people are still wearing high heels like they are for
Speaker 4: the first half hour of a wedding and no other time.
Speaker 2: And they are actually they're far lest common. But I think,
Speaker 2: I think, but the.
Speaker 4: High heel eccidents are steady.
Speaker 3: But the thing unlike the high heels themselves.
Speaker 4: But the thing about crocs is the number of CROCS
Speaker 4: accidents I think is tripled, hasn't it.
Speaker 2: That's the incredibly popular Here's the thing, here's the stat
Speaker 2: that everyone's missing Jandle's still costing JANDLE accidents one point
Speaker 2: three to one point four million, And it's it's funny
Speaker 2: isn't it that you can't handle the jandle of jandle
Speaker 2: slip in a quintessential part of New Zealand.
Speaker 4: We literally cannot handle the jendle.
Speaker 3: One point four million bucks and ladders cause how many
Speaker 3: how many dollars worth of injury ladders?
Speaker 2: Ladders are okay, a lot more than.
Speaker 3: That the last time I looked, seventy three million dollars
Speaker 3: a year is paid on ladders, on what falls from ladders.
Speaker 2: Really, that's a bit of a worry because I do
Speaker 2: have quite a long.
Speaker 3: Leaders to get at my roof frike. You imagine the carbage.
Speaker 2: Actually, I did learn that there's there's a thing with
Speaker 2: crocs that you can go and you can put them
Speaker 2: in sport mode. In sport modes, when you take the
Speaker 2: bit that sits at the front flick, it's.
Speaker 3: A smarts mode, then acc.
Speaker 4: Therapy model. I could never walk.
Speaker 2: I could never walk quickly in them. I could never
Speaker 2: walk quickly in jendles, no matter how often I wore them.
Speaker 2: I just didn't have that. Some people could do the
Speaker 2: one hundred meters I reckon in about eleven seconds in jendles. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: not me.
Speaker 4: I like a jendle, yeah, I like a jed. I
Speaker 4: did just get a pair of crocs though, just quite recently,
Speaker 4: speaking sort of trying to.
Speaker 2: Be relevant, thinking of soft floppy things. I'm not sure well,
Speaker 2: I'm not sure whether we should do this, but I
Speaker 2: would just invite my audience to look at the latest
Speaker 2: seizure from P Diddy's estate. And I'm trying to put
Speaker 2: it one how do we put it? So if you're
Speaker 2: with the kids, they're a sort of toy for adult amusement,
Speaker 2: and they start with D and end and know and
Speaker 2: the best thing. There were seven hundred and eighty four
Speaker 2: of them found, and the police took a photo like
Speaker 2: you know how they lay out all the guns when
Speaker 2: they have a gun stash.
Speaker 3: All these sixties and they're standing at them like.
Speaker 2: This is what we seized, as if it's a really
Speaker 2: big heist. But I just wondered they sell those on
Speaker 2: the police at a website and.
Speaker 3: Well those are the old police suplus auctions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go. I mean, I don't know what
Speaker 2: excuse they could be for owning seven hundred and eighty
Speaker 2: four of them.
Speaker 4: Job a lot.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's a deal on TEAMO or something.
Speaker 3: He's in jail. Long may he stay there.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, he's I just I reckon the names that
Speaker 2: end up being pulled along with him. It's like the
Speaker 2: whole Epstein thing. It's on the same sort of scale. Anyway, Hey,
Speaker 2: thanks so much.
Speaker 3: What maybe he'll die well, Pete not wishing it on him.
Speaker 3: I was going to say, thanks so much, guy taking
Speaker 3: an observation.
Speaker 2: Joe McCarroll and Pete wolf Camp, We'll look forward to
Speaker 2: catch up with you again. The One Roof Radio Show
Speaker 2: is next with Calvin David some core logic joining us
Speaker 2: in just a tick. It's coming up to three minutes
Speaker 2: to four.
Speaker 1: For more from the Weekend collective, listen live to news
Speaker 1: talks'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.