1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Morris Williams and now Huddle Auckland councilor former National Party 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: minister Joe Spagani child Fun Chief executive, Hello you too, 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Hello by heaven. So do you think. 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 2: That hell of an interview? 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: I'm just going to put it out there. Not smart 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: for Tamotha Paul to be supporting this kind of carry on. 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: What do you think Morris? 8 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. I mean when I saw in the Herald 9 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: the article that said that the damage done and Wellington 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: and the cleanup was into seven figures, you go, holy hell. 11 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: If Wellington hasn't got enough problems in trying to get its. 12 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: Water on, Morris, just Wellington, right, that's not even Auckland, 13 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: where he's prolific as well. 14 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: Yes, I get that. And then for her as a 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: next Wellington City councilor to come out and sort of 16 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: write a letter of recommendation. You know, your previous interview 17 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: was just simply a matter of if you've got permission 18 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 2: to use someone's private property and put it on their 19 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 2: wall or the offence, then that's fine. If you haven't, 20 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 2: you've got no bloody right to be defacing it and 21 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: causing damage and then the cost of having to get 22 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 2: the bloody stuff off, and I'm happy that the police 23 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: are charging them. I was disappointed that we didn't charge 24 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 2: enough people on the stuff in Josie. 25 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 3: Well, unless you're Banksy, you just should not be graffitiing 26 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 3: at the age of thirty seven, right, I mean, I 27 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 3: know banks is even older than that, but he's clearly 28 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 3: an artist. Right. If you're doing this at thirty seven, 29 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 3: I mean there are just things that you shouldn't do 30 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 3: at that age, Like you know, I don't know where 31 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 3: a bootube and end up in Courtney Place at three am. 32 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 3: You know it, Just stop it. 33 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 2: Let me write that down. What should I not be doing? 34 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 3: Don't on Courtney Place at three am, Morris, It's not 35 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 3: a good look, you know. So that's part of it, 36 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 3: is that. And he did have the grace to say, 37 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 3: this guy who's been charged with graffitiing that he feels 38 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,559 Speaker 3: like he should have given up ten years ago. Yes, 39 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 3: yes you should have, because I mean you just look 40 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 3: a bit daft as an older man doing this. But 41 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 3: there is a solution. You mentioned it in that interview Heather. 42 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 3: In Melbourne, they've got not just a wall, but they've 43 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 3: got a couple of streets that that they give over 44 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 3: to graffiti, right, and it's quite a tourist attraction and 45 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 3: it's quite beautiful some of it, and and so you 46 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 3: end up, you know, if anyone's just going up there 47 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 3: going pork, pork, pork, then they're not they're not probably 48 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 3: not going to They're going to get painted over because 49 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 3: something more interesting will happen. So so there are ways 50 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 3: around it. I gave my daughter a wall in her 51 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 3: room which she graffiti. Now it's my office and I 52 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 3: go on zoom calls with you know, ministers and things, 53 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 3: and I look behind and it's got like homegrown on 54 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: it and CJ fancied, you know, subpect. So I think 55 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: I've got of paint over it. But yeah, there is 56 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 3: a way to capture that feeling that people want to, 57 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 3: you know, young people want to graffiti a motorway bridge 58 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 3: or something. Give them a wall. 59 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: Then you phone, did something funny? Start talking again? 60 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: Okay? Every now and then I go into the on 61 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: the train and the graffiti along the rail line is 62 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: just shocking, and I can't understand. It doesn't have any 63 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 2: message on it. It's not clear about we're opposed to 64 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 2: what's going on in Gaza. It's just a shambles of paintings. 65 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: On and no, Morris, it wasn't Pork's message clear to you. 66 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 3: No, So that's just a pup on that though. That 67 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 3: is one thing Morris, and I think you're right. The 68 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 3: problem we've got with that kind of just rash of 69 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 3: messy graffiti is that it's a sign of urban decay 70 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: and disorder, isn't it. So we go, what the hell 71 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: we don't want that? 72 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: Right back with the HDDLE, you got Josephiganni and Morris 73 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: Williams and Josie. What are yourickons going on in the 74 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: Middle East, more specifically with the ground troops. 75 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, well they're obviously got some I mean, they're trying 76 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: to look at what their options are right when they 77 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 3: could either, you know, put troops there to safeguard the 78 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 3: straighter Humus. They could seize carg Island, which is the 79 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 3: sort of oil hub for Iran. They could say that 80 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 3: they're going to send troops in to get the nuclear 81 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 3: site in Isfahan. But all of those things just seem 82 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: incredibly impossible. And again, I mean you're just getting constant information, 83 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 3: contradictory information from Trump and the Americans. You know, one minute, 84 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 3: Trump's saying he's destroyed one hundred percent of Iran's military capability, 85 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 3: but it's just so apparently the nine percent that's remaining 86 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 3: that's playing habit with the global economy. You know, both 87 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 3: of those things are not true. So I think the 88 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 3: problem we've got here is that we've gone you can't 89 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 3: control a country having a bomb it without sending ground 90 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,119 Speaker 3: troops in. At the same time, the minute you send 91 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 3: ground troops in, you're there for twenty years. And that 92 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 3: all we have to do is look back at Afghanistan, Iraq, 93 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 3: and we look back at Afghanistan in particular. We were 94 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 3: there for twenty years to basically get rid of the 95 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 3: Taliban government and flush out of some of the laden 96 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 3: but get rid of the Taliban government. Years later, the 97 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 3: Taliban government are back in power. So it just fills 98 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 3: you with dread that this could end up being a 99 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 3: very long war where all sorts of others get dragged 100 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 3: in and we've got lots of conflicts happening, or a Trea, Ethiopia, Pakistan, Afghanistan. 101 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 3: I mean, it's pretty scary. 102 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: Do you think, Morris, is there any prospect that this 103 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: gets wound up in the next few weeks If you've 104 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: got that many troops headed there. 105 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: No, I think this has got a long way to 106 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: go in terms of what the options are and where 107 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: they go. And I think America will be, as Josie said, 108 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: cognizant of its history. I mean, they were in Vietnam, 109 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 2: the mightiest nation in the world in terms of aircraft 110 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: carriers and bombers and army and so on, and a 111 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 2: few little cats and black pjs kept popping out of 112 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: the bushes and blowing up things, and they had to 113 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: finally depart, losing big time. And they didn't win in Iraq. 114 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 2: And you know, they win the war in three weeks 115 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: and they'll never win the peace. And I think this's 116 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 2: got a long way to go. But boy, is this 117 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: a great example of the old saying that the first 118 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: casualty in war is the truth. 119 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, right now, Hey, on that out. 120 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 2: I have no idea where the truth lies. 121 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: No, no, and none. 122 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 3: Of us do. 123 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: And I think we're all trying to seeking guess. But 124 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: we'll almost have to just watch it play out and 125 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: listen this LNG terminal. Josie, I think this has gone. 126 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: It's been It's been nice today, isn't it. 127 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 3: Well? I know you don't like it, but you've got 128 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 3: to do something right. I mean, and that's not. 129 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: What we're talking about, Josie. We're talking about whether it's 130 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: been killed. Has been killed, isn't it. 131 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 3: I don't know about that. I think I know what 132 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 3: you say, I know what you say, but I know 133 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 3: there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes 134 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 3: going Guys. If you don't build this terminal, you don't 135 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 3: have to fill it up with LNG. You just have 136 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 3: to have it there ready to store it if we 137 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 3: need it. And by god, now we know what it 138 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 3: feels like when we need it. 139 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: Ridian dollars for not filling it up. 140 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, but if you don't have that, But if you 141 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 3: don't have something standing by where you can store additional fuel, 142 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 3: an additional gas or LNG in this case, and you know, 143 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 3: you just you're staying with the status quo, which is 144 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 3: where the electriacy companies can pump up the price. Everybody 145 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 3: pays more prices. They can charge more when there's less supply. 146 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 3: So if you don't have an LNG facility, what are 147 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: you going to do? Bring in more coal? Well that's 148 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 3: not going to be enough either. We need more of 149 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 3: everything in order to shift to renewables ultimately down the line. 150 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 3: But if this crisis has told us anything, it's that 151 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: when security of supply is the thing that we've been 152 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: lacking and we need it, and so if we don't 153 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 3: do it, well, what's it going to be? And what 154 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 3: is it going to be? I mean, what do you reckon? 155 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 2: Guys? 156 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: No? I think it's what do you think? Morris? 157 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 3: Yeah? 158 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: I think the moment you open the door and sort 159 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 2: of give a little bit of doubt to it. You know, 160 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: these things are done on benefit cost ratios and business cases, 161 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: and when they did the one billion business case for this, 162 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: they would have had how much sort of liquid and 163 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: natural gas was available in the world and what its 164 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: price was, and then they'd have worked out how much 165 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 2: to build it and constructed and they have come up 166 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 2: with a maybe a break point of maybe yes, maybe no, 167 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: but let's go with it because it's got a bit 168 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: of insurance to it. I think every one of those 169 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: numbers have just been blown apart like you wouldn't believe 170 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: with what's happened and the big gas fields that have 171 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: been attacked both in Iran and in Qatar, means that 172 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 2: the whole of l and G's landscape's got to be 173 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: go back and revisited. When I hear the door opened 174 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: on a bit of doubt on anything, I always assume, well, 175 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: they've decided. Now they're going to just start to you know, 176 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: just till the soil and get people outside and the 177 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: import I think, Morris, if. 178 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 3: They do do that, and I think you're probably right heavy, 179 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 3: that's that's floating us, and they're going to prepare people 180 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 3: for it. But I can see. But what I'm saying 181 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 3: is you did. But I'm saying that we still need it, right, 182 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 3: And so if they don't do this, you've got to 183 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 3: push them and say, well, what is the thing that 184 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 3: we do when stayed? Yeah, so what's it going to be? 185 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,599 Speaker 2: Look, I agree with that. I agree with that. And 186 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: therefore you go back to the drawing board and say, well, 187 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: obviously the paradigm is completely shifted now those numbers no 188 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 2: longer work. What's alternative for an insurance of a quality 189 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 2: energy source to keep the place? 190 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: And what about the Onslow Lake Onslow which was in 191 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: the papers this weekend. 192 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 3: Don't bring that up. 193 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: We have my stupid ideas. 194 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 3: What about that, Morris, I'd rather have an LNG terminal than. 195 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: That, it's good to see. It's good to see a 196 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 2: minister with the scenes of humor. 197 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: Good stuff. Hey, and by the way, Morris text from 198 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: someone Morris should not be commenting on art. He got 199 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: twenty three percent in school sea art at Matamata College 200 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: from his teacher, Jim Airs. 201 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 2: Well in art, I don't even think I sat school set. 202 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: See, there we go. The first casualty in the war 203 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 1: is truth. Guys, Thank you very much, appreciate it. 204 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: The Huddle of For more from Heather Duplessy Alan Drive, 205 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 2: listen live to News Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 206 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.