1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: Mark Mitchell's with us along with Jinny Anderson. Good morning, 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: good morning, good morning. 3 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 2: Good morning morning. 4 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 3: Jay. 5 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,159 Speaker 1: Now, Mark, thank you. I'm going to I'm going to 6 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: put you on the spot slightly because this isn't your 7 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: in your purview, but we're having a little bit of 8 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: correspondence from people. This is the situation of New Zealand 9 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: is stuck in Dubai. There's a growing angst around the 10 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: what's the government doing for us beyond register on the 11 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: whatever the website is. And I'm sort of saying to people, 12 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: what is it you expect the government to do? Charter 13 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: planes and get you out. So the question I have 14 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: for you is is the government in contact with any 15 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,959 Speaker 1: other government i e. Britain or Australia to do anything 16 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: tangible about people stuck in that part of the world 17 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: or is there literally nothing we can do. 18 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 3: So look, I think that the answer to that would 19 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 3: be yes, although there's a caveat to there is that 20 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 3: that's the fire minister's role, in the Prime Minister's role. 21 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 3: But I'm sure that there is communication going on amongst 22 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 3: governments in terms of having our people stuck in Iraq, sorry, 23 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 3: in the Middle East. Look, at the end, of the day. 24 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 3: My own daughter and granddaughter up in Dubai with my 25 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 3: son in law and they are getting regular updates from 26 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 3: the government. They have registered online with the embassy and 27 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 3: also the lad's advice understand from Winston was with Air 28 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 3: New Zealand as well. We have put a bit of 29 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 3: a plan together for them in terms of next moves 30 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 3: we have been I was talking to the Prime Minister 31 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 3: on the Sunday to make sure that we're doing all 32 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 3: that we can to get the information and looking after 33 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 3: our people in the Middle East, but also especially with 34 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 3: our communities back here in New Zealand, who of course 35 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 3: feel vulnerable at a time like this. 36 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: When do you pull the trainers, what do you need 37 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: to do to pull a trigger for a plane or 38 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: help or rescue or something. 39 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 3: Well, I think obviously airspace has to become open so 40 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 3: that those options come on the table, and then obviously 41 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 3: there's risk analysis to go through and prioritization and just 42 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 3: making sure that the focus must be and has to 43 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 3: be on looking after our people in the Middle East 44 00:01:59,200 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 3: without a doubt. 45 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: Was Whinston said the other day early on you said, 46 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: last time of the Twelve Day War, you sent up 47 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: an aircraft and no one everyone was registered. But because 48 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: the wall stopped, life went back to normal and no 49 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: one got on it. And the other problem you got 50 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: this time, of course, is there are presumably thousands of 51 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: people in place like Dubai, and how many plans do 52 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: you need to see in it? What are you doing? 53 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: How do you do? I mean logistically it's a nightmare, 54 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: isn't it. 55 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, And everyone has got a different risk threshold in 56 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 3: terms of you know what what what they're willing to 57 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 3: sort of tolerate. And look, it's a bit strange and 58 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 3: by at the moment, the malls are still open. You 59 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: know that the Crown Prince was out and about on 60 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 3: the streets yesterday, so you know. But but the advice 61 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 3: at the moment of. 62 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 2: Stre was it just the one hotel? I mean the 63 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: images I saw was in the Palm, which is close 64 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: to you, I think. 65 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, from what I understand it was that was 66 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 3: Burg from what I understand. Yeah, but the but the 67 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 3: but but the you know, the UE have been very 68 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 3: good at having countermeasures put in place. They seem to 69 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 3: have been really effective. The advice is to still day 70 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 3: indoors and keep yourself updated with that advice, But yeah, 71 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 3: and I think that you know, it's really important that 72 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: there's a government. We are very sensitive and across what's 73 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 3: happening to our people up in the Middle East in 74 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 3: the region, and everything's been done to make sure that 75 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 3: they are supported and also back home here to make 76 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 3: sure that. 77 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, good answer, Jinny. Can you explain from a labor 78 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: point of view? Helen Clark, Chris Hippins, et cetera. The 79 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: arguing of this this un charter esoteric kind of is 80 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: it legal thing you've got going? Do you think you're 81 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: in touch with the average New Zealander and arguing that 82 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: sort of ethereal line? 83 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: Do you mean international law line? 84 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: Is that what you're. 85 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: Referring to me? That the fact the fact that you 86 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 2: don't invade other countries. I think most New Zealanders don't 87 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: want New Zealand to be invaded by other countries and 88 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: that we respect a system where everybody respects it. You 89 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 2: don't want to be invaded, So international law metters. No 90 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: country is above it in New Zealand as always its. 91 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: Time politique, isn't it? They are above it because it's 92 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: happening in front of our eyes right now, and it 93 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: happened when Russia walked into Ukraine. 94 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you're dead right. It's the disintegration of what 95 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: we've known as kind of world order. But it is 96 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: possible to condemn what's happening in Iran and that regime 97 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 2: and still be clear that military you know, like escalation 98 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: that we've seen is not the answer. 99 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: But as condemning doing it isn't isn't. It's just yak, 100 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: yakity yak. And that's the problem with the UN and 101 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: the world order. It's yakita yak and nothing happens. 102 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 2: Well, I think the problem is that you've got a 103 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: situation where it's just so uncertain, and so many New 104 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: Zealanders want to know what this means to their daily lives. 105 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: What does this mean to be. 106 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: Patrols going up and you can't fly through Dubai at 107 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: the moment? I mean, that's it, isn't it? 108 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 3: Well? 109 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: And is a fact with is a high uncertainty of 110 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: what might happen next, because in terms of having international 111 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: law that's kind of disintegrated under a to the last 112 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: couple of I guess years, well. 113 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: This is what I these are my comments I found 114 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 3: I had to sit in the house yesterday and listen 115 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 3: to Chrishitan Sanctimodius speech. And this is from a guy 116 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 3: who probably calls from met if he gets a paper cut. 117 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 3: And the reality is this is that this regime has 118 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 3: had forty seven years of engaging in terrorism, suppressing and 119 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 3: brutalizing their own people. They are responsible for literally thousands 120 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 3: and thousands of deaths. And this is very personal for 121 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 3: me because I spent time up in Iraq embedded in 122 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 3: training and advising what's called the Technical support units like 123 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 3: our AOS in New Zealand. And do you know what 124 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 3: most of our work was. It was dealing with morality 125 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: death squad sponsored by Iranians who were targeting mainly women 126 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 3: and LGBTQ community. And if I can just give you 127 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 3: one very graphic example, I'm sorry, listeners, turn the radio 128 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 3: off now if you don't want to hear this. But 129 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 3: I went, well, let me it's important. 130 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: Mind what I was saying, don't. 131 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 3: Don't, don't turn the radio off. Look, I had as 132 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 3: part of my role, I'd gone to see new recruits 133 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 3: that were coming into the Iraqi Police. They had a 134 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 3: really challenging and difficult time of it, and and some 135 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 3: of them were young women that had real fire in 136 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 3: their belly and they actually were giving an opportunity to 137 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 3: now do something for their country. If you fast forward 138 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 3: one of the groups I went to see one of 139 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 3: the young ladies that really made an impression on me, Nadia. 140 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 3: If you fast forward three weeks from that point when 141 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 3: we ran an operation against the Morality police who had 142 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 3: picked up three of these young police recruits and we 143 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 3: found the tortured and contorted bodies with their faces shot off. 144 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 3: Those are the sort of people and the reason why 145 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 3: they were targeted because women shouldn't have jobs government jobs, 146 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 3: or have jobs and police or you know. And so 147 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 3: just make no mistake about who we're dealing with here, 148 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 3: and so we should be fully behind the fact that 149 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 3: now the Iranian people have got an opportunity to get 150 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: a government in place that gets a lot of pathway 151 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: to the sort of freedoms that we have and that 152 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 3: we enjoy. 153 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: Ginny the Barbara Edmunds interview, did you read it with 154 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: Thomas Coggan on the Herald did? Is she in a hole? 155 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: Are you in a hole because of it? 156 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think it's a bit of 157 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,239 Speaker 2: a storm. And the ke tea cup to be honest. 158 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,679 Speaker 2: This always happens when you have someone like Nichola Willis 159 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 2: wanting to divert attention away from the state of the 160 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: books and the fact that cost of living's up, that 161 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: they'll seize on things like this and try and make 162 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: them the other of them. 163 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: Well, the two bits I got out of it was 164 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: one she wasn't returning to surplus alarm bell too. She 165 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: couldn't tell us how pay equity's going to be covered 166 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: off alarm bell too. 167 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: Well. The main one I got out of it was 168 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: the fact that the government cuts employment is one of 169 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: the figures from his banks, one of the measures, and 170 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: given the high level of unemployment, they removed it for 171 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: politics sake, and we don't think that's in the beg, 172 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 2: so we'll take a look at it. 173 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: So when you stay take a look at it. The 174 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: conservative economists would argue that allows for more inflation to 175 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: counteract the employment, so you're happy with higher inflation. 176 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 2: Many other countries like New Zealand did head a dual 177 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: mandate and that meant that people's unemployment is also taken 178 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 2: into effector But this government doesn't seem to care too 179 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: much about highly vools of unemployment. 180 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: But the pay according to sorry Mark, I just wanted 181 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: to the equity. Where's the twelve billion coming from? And 182 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: when are you going to explain that? 183 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: Well, we need to find out what that figure is, 184 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: because he's been. 185 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: The figure is when do you explain it? 186 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 2: What we've comverted to is reinstating that legislation. We need 187 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 2: to understand. But look, to be really frank and to 188 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: be honest, inational took fit money that was meant for 189 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: newses and teachers as it was, and they blew it. 190 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's mine. You've got to you've got to come 191 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: up with an explanation as to where that money is 192 00:08:59,200 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: coming from. 193 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: Well, that's going to take you to one because they 194 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: took that money and it went to property speculated and 195 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 2: tax cuts and tobacco companies. But we need to take 196 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 2: some time. 197 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: Now. 198 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: The facts that it's not going to happen. 199 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 3: Overnight quickly, so Labor's really quickly might so Labour's dual 200 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 3: mandate for the Reserve Bank gave a seven point nine 201 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 3: percent inflation, massive inflation, well above wages and it's you know, 202 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 3: and now they talk and by the way, on the 203 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 3: pay equity stuff, Yes, explain to us where the money 204 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 3: is coming from because they cannot do that. And the 205 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 3: other thing too, is she talks about employment. We got 206 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 3: seven point nine percent inflation under labor and we got, 207 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 3: under their own projections higher rates of employment than what 208 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 3: we're actually achieving. I've just been down in christ it's 209 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 3: down there at three point nine percent unemployment. Well they 210 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 3: are though, at three point nine percent. The economy's humming 211 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 3: down there. We just got to get the rest of 212 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 3: the country up and going. 213 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: We're away and that is why the election is going 214 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: to be so fascinating. Guys. I appreciate it very much. 215 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: Jinny Anders Mark Mitchell. 216 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 3: For more from The Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 217 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 3: News Work Set B from six am weekdays, or follow 218 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 3: the podcast on iHeartRadio