1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:11,733 Speaker 1: from News Talks at b. 3 00:00:12,893 --> 00:00:17,413 Speaker 2: In the mangle munching forest, there's a nickel nackletree growing 4 00:00:17,493 --> 00:00:21,133 Speaker 2: nickel nackleberry's that are read as read can Beugh. What 5 00:00:21,213 --> 00:00:25,213 Speaker 2: an amazing line and incredible to think that that line 6 00:00:25,733 --> 00:00:29,253 Speaker 2: delights as much today as it did when it was 7 00:00:29,293 --> 00:00:32,453 Speaker 2: written fifty years ago. That is, of course, the first 8 00:00:32,493 --> 00:00:38,173 Speaker 2: line from the Nickel Nackletree by Dame Linley Dodd, the 9 00:00:38,253 --> 00:00:40,613 Speaker 2: beloved children's author, is best know I know for her 10 00:00:40,653 --> 00:00:43,093 Speaker 2: Harry McCleary series, of course, the first of which was 11 00:00:43,093 --> 00:00:47,413 Speaker 2: published in nineteen eighty three, and over the last however 12 00:00:47,493 --> 00:00:50,493 Speaker 2: many decades, the Scrappy Little Dog has gone on to 13 00:00:50,613 --> 00:00:54,213 Speaker 2: inspire stage shows, cartoon series, even a collaboration with the 14 00:00:54,213 --> 00:00:58,733 Speaker 2: London Symphony Orchestra, all while selling millions of copies worldwide. 15 00:00:59,373 --> 00:01:01,853 Speaker 2: This week Dame Linley was honored at the New Zealander 16 00:01:01,933 --> 00:01:05,253 Speaker 2: of the Year Awards with the Legacy Award for fostering 17 00:01:05,293 --> 00:01:09,173 Speaker 2: a love of literature and generations of children. And Dame 18 00:01:09,253 --> 00:01:11,453 Speaker 2: Linley is with us this morning. It is such a 19 00:01:11,453 --> 00:01:13,533 Speaker 2: great pleasure, Kilder and welcome to the show. 20 00:01:14,773 --> 00:01:17,293 Speaker 3: Good morning, Jack, It's lovely to speak to you. 21 00:01:18,053 --> 00:01:20,933 Speaker 2: It is so so special to be speaking with you. 22 00:01:21,213 --> 00:01:24,853 Speaker 2: I've said it already to our audience, but your books 23 00:01:24,893 --> 00:01:29,093 Speaker 2: are an absolute favorite in our household, as I'm sure 24 00:01:29,213 --> 00:01:32,893 Speaker 2: is the case, and however, many millions of households worldwide. 25 00:01:32,893 --> 00:01:36,853 Speaker 2: But I swear I could read the Nickel Knackletree cover 26 00:01:36,933 --> 00:01:39,133 Speaker 2: to cover without even looking at the words. You know, 27 00:01:40,933 --> 00:01:43,733 Speaker 2: we've committed that, And however many Harry McCleary's to Memories 28 00:01:43,733 --> 00:01:46,333 Speaker 2: and Susie Fogg, Walking Sam her Dog and everything. So 29 00:01:47,093 --> 00:01:48,373 Speaker 2: thank you. 30 00:01:48,373 --> 00:01:53,373 Speaker 3: You've been very suitably brainwashed and very so. 31 00:01:53,813 --> 00:01:56,613 Speaker 2: The Legacy Award at the New Zealander of the Year Awards. 32 00:01:56,653 --> 00:02:00,253 Speaker 2: I know you've been celebrated a few places over the years, 33 00:02:00,293 --> 00:02:03,453 Speaker 2: but how do you think about your legacy? 34 00:02:04,253 --> 00:02:08,133 Speaker 3: Well, obviously, I think we'd spend all these years thoroughly 35 00:02:08,253 --> 00:02:12,653 Speaker 3: enjoying myself producing these books. I feel slightly guilty. 36 00:02:14,413 --> 00:02:15,693 Speaker 2: You feel guilty about it? 37 00:02:16,533 --> 00:02:19,133 Speaker 3: Well, no, I mean that sounds a bit silly. It 38 00:02:19,253 --> 00:02:21,973 Speaker 3: sounds you know, I've been indulging myself and I have 39 00:02:22,373 --> 00:02:26,733 Speaker 3: doing these things. But no, it's been great fun. 40 00:02:27,613 --> 00:02:32,213 Speaker 2: It's pleasing to know that you get joy through the 41 00:02:32,253 --> 00:02:35,053 Speaker 2: process because obviously, there's a lot of joy that comes 42 00:02:35,093 --> 00:02:38,213 Speaker 2: to people who you know who are engaging with your work. 43 00:02:38,253 --> 00:02:40,493 Speaker 2: Do you mind telling us the kind of origin story? 44 00:02:40,533 --> 00:02:42,813 Speaker 2: I know you've told a few times before, but for 45 00:02:42,893 --> 00:02:46,013 Speaker 2: people who aren't aware of how you became the author 46 00:02:46,053 --> 00:02:49,053 Speaker 2: you are today and the artist you are today, tell 47 00:02:49,133 --> 00:02:50,333 Speaker 2: us how you started. 48 00:02:51,613 --> 00:02:56,413 Speaker 3: Well. I had been an art teacher's teaching secondary school art, 49 00:02:56,853 --> 00:03:01,213 Speaker 3: and when I retired to have about my first child, 50 00:03:02,453 --> 00:03:05,293 Speaker 3: Eve Sutton got back in contact with me. She'd been 51 00:03:05,373 --> 00:03:08,893 Speaker 3: talking about books quite a long time beforehand, and she said, 52 00:03:08,933 --> 00:03:12,813 Speaker 3: now it's time to produce a children's book together, she said, 53 00:03:13,453 --> 00:03:16,053 Speaker 3: very firmly, and I didn't have any choice, so I 54 00:03:16,133 --> 00:03:19,253 Speaker 3: certainly had to say yes. And we came up with 55 00:03:19,293 --> 00:03:22,973 Speaker 3: My Cat Likes to Hide and Boxes, and that was 56 00:03:23,013 --> 00:03:25,413 Speaker 3: the one we did together. And that was really the 57 00:03:25,453 --> 00:03:31,613 Speaker 3: beginning of a very long series of books ever afterwards, 58 00:03:31,653 --> 00:03:35,013 Speaker 3: because I got completely hooked by this, by the thought 59 00:03:35,053 --> 00:03:38,653 Speaker 3: of picture books, and I suddenly became quite greedy and 60 00:03:38,733 --> 00:03:41,413 Speaker 3: wanted to do the writing as well as the illustrating. 61 00:03:41,693 --> 00:03:44,293 Speaker 2: So what was it that hooked you about it? Do 62 00:03:44,333 --> 00:03:44,733 Speaker 2: you think? 63 00:03:46,253 --> 00:03:50,453 Speaker 3: Well, I've always had a love of words, right since childhood. 64 00:03:50,773 --> 00:03:53,773 Speaker 3: I was an only child and brought up in the 65 00:03:54,733 --> 00:04:00,853 Speaker 3: kinder of forest in a very small settlement, and therefore, 66 00:04:01,693 --> 00:04:04,293 Speaker 3: you know, didn't have many friends or any friends at 67 00:04:04,413 --> 00:04:07,373 Speaker 3: most of the time because they were so few children. 68 00:04:08,093 --> 00:04:12,533 Speaker 3: And so my conversations with my parents were the thing 69 00:04:12,613 --> 00:04:16,613 Speaker 3: that really got me really fond of words, because they 70 00:04:16,653 --> 00:04:20,413 Speaker 3: were both peecked much into words too, and there was 71 00:04:20,453 --> 00:04:24,173 Speaker 3: an awful lot of fun with language at home. And 72 00:04:24,453 --> 00:04:28,373 Speaker 3: really that's what began the whole thing. Really, after my 73 00:04:28,533 --> 00:04:31,213 Speaker 3: cat likes to hided boxes, I suddenly realized how much 74 00:04:31,333 --> 00:04:33,573 Speaker 3: I loved words as well, and I wanted to be 75 00:04:33,613 --> 00:04:35,813 Speaker 3: able to do them as well as the pictures. 76 00:04:36,013 --> 00:04:39,693 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you said that you had a lot of 77 00:04:39,693 --> 00:04:42,173 Speaker 2: fun with language with your parents. How so you would 78 00:04:42,173 --> 00:04:43,173 Speaker 2: you play games? 79 00:04:43,293 --> 00:04:43,413 Speaker 1: Was it? 80 00:04:43,533 --> 00:04:46,653 Speaker 2: Were you playing scrabble? Were you reading aloud? Were you 81 00:04:46,853 --> 00:04:48,493 Speaker 2: reciting poems? How did that work? 82 00:04:48,853 --> 00:04:55,213 Speaker 3: Just in conversation? Really, both my parents were fond of 83 00:04:55,213 --> 00:04:59,133 Speaker 3: books and also fond of fun, and so, you know, 84 00:04:59,733 --> 00:05:02,453 Speaker 3: obviously there were serious times as well, but there was 85 00:05:02,493 --> 00:05:05,533 Speaker 3: a lot of fun with words. My father and I 86 00:05:05,653 --> 00:05:08,533 Speaker 3: used to make up a make up sort of imaginary 87 00:05:08,533 --> 00:05:11,293 Speaker 3: animals and all sorts of silly things and have nonsense 88 00:05:11,333 --> 00:05:15,893 Speaker 3: conversations about them, which as an only child, of course, 89 00:05:16,253 --> 00:05:19,613 Speaker 3: I had my parents' attention to myself, you know, no 90 00:05:19,773 --> 00:05:23,493 Speaker 3: brothers and sisters to take any so I were very lucky, really, 91 00:05:23,613 --> 00:05:27,373 Speaker 3: especially as you know, living in a very isolated spot. 92 00:05:29,053 --> 00:05:32,053 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing how you can reflect on an experience 93 00:05:32,173 --> 00:05:36,733 Speaker 2: like that and realize how foundational it's been in your 94 00:05:36,773 --> 00:05:39,973 Speaker 2: work and your art, because I mean, I think one 95 00:05:40,013 --> 00:05:43,493 Speaker 2: of the qualities that defines your stories is the language. 96 00:05:43,653 --> 00:05:46,093 Speaker 2: That your stories are so fun to read, and the 97 00:05:46,173 --> 00:05:49,173 Speaker 2: rhythm of the rhymes is just as it's kind of 98 00:05:49,293 --> 00:05:53,013 Speaker 2: languid and addictive. It's I mean, it really is quite beautiful. 99 00:05:53,133 --> 00:05:59,333 Speaker 2: But obviously you appreciated early on that children also value 100 00:06:00,293 --> 00:06:03,813 Speaker 2: good words and clever language exactly. 101 00:06:03,933 --> 00:06:07,533 Speaker 3: And I've always felt very very strongly, particularly having been 102 00:06:07,533 --> 00:06:09,853 Speaker 3: brought up in the nineteen forties and that's an awfully 103 00:06:09,853 --> 00:06:15,453 Speaker 3: long time time ago, that the things we were given 104 00:06:15,493 --> 00:06:20,493 Speaker 3: to read it at school were incredibly old fashioned even then, 105 00:06:20,653 --> 00:06:25,893 Speaker 3: I think, and of millions of gnomes and fairies and 106 00:06:26,173 --> 00:06:31,213 Speaker 3: bits and pieces, and it was talking down kind of language, 107 00:06:31,333 --> 00:06:35,533 Speaker 3: which I looking back, I probably sort of recognized it 108 00:06:35,613 --> 00:06:37,933 Speaker 3: wasn't the kind of language I was getting at home, 109 00:06:38,893 --> 00:06:41,533 Speaker 3: and I got a bit bored by those books. And 110 00:06:41,573 --> 00:06:44,453 Speaker 3: it was only later on, when much later on, when 111 00:06:44,493 --> 00:06:48,653 Speaker 3: I met books like Doctor Seussis suddenly realized you could 112 00:06:48,693 --> 00:06:52,693 Speaker 3: be mad with language and have a fantastic time, which 113 00:06:52,693 --> 00:06:56,013 Speaker 3: has always made me feel that for parents reading to 114 00:06:56,133 --> 00:07:00,573 Speaker 3: small children as you were doing at the moment, you 115 00:07:00,653 --> 00:07:03,773 Speaker 3: can get dreadfully tired if you can't get excited about 116 00:07:03,813 --> 00:07:07,173 Speaker 3: what you're reading. And you've got some that really makes 117 00:07:07,213 --> 00:07:11,933 Speaker 3: you laugh as well as the child, that's absolutely fantastic. 118 00:07:12,013 --> 00:07:14,973 Speaker 3: It's a mutual thing then, and that makes it much 119 00:07:14,973 --> 00:07:16,613 Speaker 3: more special for the child too. 120 00:07:17,773 --> 00:07:20,013 Speaker 2: I think you've put your finger on it. I think 121 00:07:20,053 --> 00:07:23,653 Speaker 2: that's the secret, Sauce. I believe that that might be 122 00:07:23,733 --> 00:07:26,933 Speaker 2: part of the reason you've had so much success is 123 00:07:26,973 --> 00:07:31,253 Speaker 2: because you've managed to unlock the kind of storytelling that 124 00:07:31,293 --> 00:07:33,173 Speaker 2: delight's parents as well as children. 125 00:07:34,013 --> 00:07:37,053 Speaker 3: That's so important, because after all, a parent is pretty 126 00:07:37,093 --> 00:07:43,333 Speaker 3: tired really at bedtime, and the last thing you want 127 00:07:43,533 --> 00:07:47,893 Speaker 3: is a text that clonks you know that that is 128 00:07:47,933 --> 00:07:52,013 Speaker 3: so irritating, actually, And if you've got something that actually 129 00:07:52,093 --> 00:07:56,053 Speaker 3: swings along the beautiful rhythm and you've got lovely, interesting, 130 00:07:56,133 --> 00:08:00,853 Speaker 3: fun words that you can all laugh about. That just 131 00:08:00,933 --> 00:08:03,213 Speaker 3: adds to the fun of doing so, really, and that's 132 00:08:03,253 --> 00:08:05,933 Speaker 3: why I've been pretty strong about things like that. 133 00:08:06,613 --> 00:08:10,733 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm ashamed to say it. It wasn't until having been 134 00:08:10,773 --> 00:08:14,773 Speaker 2: brought up on your stories, having been read them as 135 00:08:14,813 --> 00:08:18,893 Speaker 2: a child. I'm ashamed to say that. It wasn't until 136 00:08:18,973 --> 00:08:21,813 Speaker 2: I had my own children and was reading them your 137 00:08:21,813 --> 00:08:25,733 Speaker 2: stories through the next generation that I had also appreciated 138 00:08:26,333 --> 00:08:29,693 Speaker 2: you had illustrated your books. And I mean, you are 139 00:08:29,733 --> 00:08:32,693 Speaker 2: an incredible artist. Yeah you are you. I mean you 140 00:08:32,733 --> 00:08:36,933 Speaker 2: are an astonishing artist. So tell us about the illustration 141 00:08:37,293 --> 00:08:41,453 Speaker 2: side of things, because obviously you know you had studied it, 142 00:08:41,533 --> 00:08:44,493 Speaker 2: you were teaching it. But the art is a hugely 143 00:08:44,533 --> 00:08:45,493 Speaker 2: important component. 144 00:08:46,893 --> 00:08:50,533 Speaker 3: I was absolutely obsessed with drawing as a child, right 145 00:08:50,613 --> 00:08:56,733 Speaker 3: from the very beginning, and I think possibly it started 146 00:08:56,773 --> 00:08:59,813 Speaker 3: with my aunt, my father's sister, who used to write 147 00:09:00,053 --> 00:09:03,653 Speaker 3: every week and she always did a very silly drawing 148 00:09:03,693 --> 00:09:06,733 Speaker 3: at the bottom of her letter for me, and it 149 00:09:06,853 --> 00:09:09,973 Speaker 3: was usually an animal, an animal that looks likely like 150 00:09:10,053 --> 00:09:12,973 Speaker 3: a caterpillar, had an awful lot of legs, but it 151 00:09:13,093 --> 00:09:17,093 Speaker 3: was always hilarious to see and I can remember all 152 00:09:17,133 --> 00:09:20,053 Speaker 3: of us howling with laughter at these things. Because she 153 00:09:20,093 --> 00:09:22,693 Speaker 3: couldn't draw for peanuts, but that was what made it 154 00:09:22,733 --> 00:09:27,933 Speaker 3: so good, and I looked for that each time the 155 00:09:28,013 --> 00:09:30,013 Speaker 3: letter came in. I think I probably would have been 156 00:09:30,213 --> 00:09:34,453 Speaker 3: bitterly disappointed if there hadn't been hadn't been a drawing 157 00:09:34,573 --> 00:09:39,013 Speaker 3: for me as well. So at that stage I suppose 158 00:09:39,093 --> 00:09:41,613 Speaker 3: it sank into my head that you can actually thought 159 00:09:41,653 --> 00:09:46,813 Speaker 3: of put words and illustrations together, you know, not really 160 00:09:46,853 --> 00:09:50,773 Speaker 3: thinking about it, but it probably sank in somewhere. And 161 00:09:50,853 --> 00:09:54,733 Speaker 3: so I drew right through my childhood. Right from the 162 00:09:54,853 --> 00:09:57,213 Speaker 3: very beginning. It was understood in my family that I 163 00:09:57,253 --> 00:10:01,493 Speaker 3: would do do art in some way, and that was 164 00:10:01,533 --> 00:10:04,493 Speaker 3: why I went off to out school and studied sculpture 165 00:10:04,573 --> 00:10:09,413 Speaker 3: of all things. Would you believe it as you really are? Yeah? Yeah, 166 00:10:09,453 --> 00:10:12,293 Speaker 3: But that was incredibly useful, of course, because it gave 167 00:10:12,333 --> 00:10:16,293 Speaker 3: me a good understanding of shape and figure and whatnot. 168 00:10:16,453 --> 00:10:20,533 Speaker 3: And so I love you. We're doing that part of 169 00:10:20,573 --> 00:10:23,013 Speaker 3: it as well as much as doing the words. 170 00:10:23,693 --> 00:10:29,133 Speaker 2: Is it is it a rare thing to in the 171 00:10:29,133 --> 00:10:32,013 Speaker 2: world of children's books to come across someone who is 172 00:10:33,213 --> 00:10:35,493 Speaker 2: as good with the art as they are with the language. 173 00:10:35,533 --> 00:10:38,653 Speaker 2: It sort of feels like you you've really you sort 174 00:10:38,653 --> 00:10:40,133 Speaker 2: of excel in both spaces. 175 00:10:41,093 --> 00:10:43,333 Speaker 3: Well, it's very kind of you, Jack to say that 176 00:10:44,573 --> 00:10:49,853 Speaker 3: I don't always feel like sixty with everything, but it's 177 00:10:49,973 --> 00:10:52,413 Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of actually, if you look, 178 00:10:52,613 --> 00:10:55,973 Speaker 3: quite a lot of illustrators and writers together who you 179 00:10:56,013 --> 00:11:00,293 Speaker 3: know who do both and sometimes perhaps there's a slight 180 00:11:00,373 --> 00:11:03,333 Speaker 3: difference in standard. I don't know. I think I've seen 181 00:11:03,373 --> 00:11:07,373 Speaker 3: plenty who are very good at both. So I'm not 182 00:11:07,373 --> 00:11:11,853 Speaker 3: not alone in that at all. I'm just lucky, though, 183 00:11:12,013 --> 00:11:12,813 Speaker 3: which is nice. 184 00:11:13,453 --> 00:11:16,613 Speaker 2: Yeah, you listen to Jack Taim. I'm speaking with Dane 185 00:11:16,853 --> 00:11:20,213 Speaker 2: Linley Dodd about her incredible breath of work and her 186 00:11:20,253 --> 00:11:23,093 Speaker 2: Legacy award at this year's New Zealander of the Year Awards. 187 00:11:23,973 --> 00:11:27,133 Speaker 2: I have to ask about hearing McCleary only because I'm 188 00:11:27,173 --> 00:11:29,173 Speaker 2: sure everyone asks you about It's probably not a day 189 00:11:29,253 --> 00:11:32,213 Speaker 2: goes by you don't. You don't mention mention his name? 190 00:11:32,333 --> 00:11:34,333 Speaker 2: Is he based? Is he based on a real dog? 191 00:11:35,853 --> 00:11:37,813 Speaker 3: I think he's been based on an awful lot of 192 00:11:37,853 --> 00:11:40,653 Speaker 3: dogs I've known over the years, you know, the sort 193 00:11:40,693 --> 00:11:42,813 Speaker 3: of bumptious little ones who think that they can walk 194 00:11:42,893 --> 00:11:48,333 Speaker 3: under these other dogs and get away with it with 195 00:11:48,573 --> 00:11:51,253 Speaker 3: the smaller they are, the more bumptious they get, really, 196 00:11:51,293 --> 00:11:54,813 Speaker 3: don't they It's amazing. It's the wrong way around, really, 197 00:11:56,293 --> 00:11:59,453 Speaker 3: But I've always I've always watched, and I've always been 198 00:11:59,493 --> 00:12:03,133 Speaker 3: obsessed with animals all my life too, and I've watched 199 00:12:03,173 --> 00:12:07,213 Speaker 3: an awful lot of dogs. We've had dogs at home too, 200 00:12:07,573 --> 00:12:11,413 Speaker 3: and we had a death and at home. 201 00:12:12,013 --> 00:12:13,133 Speaker 2: Did you call them Schnitzel? 202 00:12:14,653 --> 00:12:18,133 Speaker 3: No, he came with a ridiculous name for a German 203 00:12:18,213 --> 00:12:23,693 Speaker 3: dog dog. He was called Sean, completely inappropriate. I don't 204 00:12:23,693 --> 00:12:27,693 Speaker 3: know why I didn't change it. 205 00:12:27,653 --> 00:12:31,173 Speaker 2: It's sort of that the names are among all of 206 00:12:31,213 --> 00:12:35,133 Speaker 2: your amazing language. The names are a real standout, right 207 00:12:35,173 --> 00:12:38,373 Speaker 2: that the likes of Hercules more Schnitzel and crumb Muff 208 00:12:38,413 --> 00:12:41,853 Speaker 2: and maclay. I love Gray Wacky Jones. I just think 209 00:12:41,893 --> 00:12:44,493 Speaker 2: it's such a it's such a delightful name. It's such 210 00:12:44,573 --> 00:12:45,493 Speaker 2: a yeah. 211 00:12:45,813 --> 00:12:49,173 Speaker 3: But I don't know why I thought of that one yet. Remember, 212 00:12:49,173 --> 00:12:51,213 Speaker 3: why where. 213 00:12:50,373 --> 00:12:52,293 Speaker 2: Do these where do they come from? Is it just 214 00:12:52,573 --> 00:12:54,093 Speaker 2: you're just plucking them from the ether. 215 00:12:54,933 --> 00:12:57,853 Speaker 3: Well, I've got a rather peculiar brain, it's quite obvious. 216 00:12:57,973 --> 00:13:02,933 Speaker 3: But I just love the sound of fun words to say. 217 00:13:03,133 --> 00:13:06,333 Speaker 3: And so whenever I go looking for a dog, neighbor, 218 00:13:06,413 --> 00:13:09,333 Speaker 3: and anything else. Name. I put things together and I 219 00:13:09,453 --> 00:13:11,853 Speaker 3: get rid of them if they don't work together, and 220 00:13:12,253 --> 00:13:15,653 Speaker 3: go back to more words, and I don't know. In 221 00:13:15,693 --> 00:13:19,813 Speaker 3: the end something comes out and if it works, I say, right, 222 00:13:19,893 --> 00:13:23,293 Speaker 3: that's it. You know, that seems to be suitable. I mean, 223 00:13:23,333 --> 00:13:26,253 Speaker 3: I don't know how I got Gray wacky Jones. Perhaps 224 00:13:26,573 --> 00:13:30,213 Speaker 3: the fact that he is gray. I suppose I was 225 00:13:30,253 --> 00:13:32,653 Speaker 3: thinking of gray words and trying to go through the 226 00:13:32,693 --> 00:13:36,973 Speaker 3: dictionary and see something interesting, and I ended up with 227 00:13:37,733 --> 00:13:40,773 Speaker 3: that was probably the dictionary. Actually I got Gray working. 228 00:13:42,653 --> 00:13:44,773 Speaker 3: And also because it's a fun thing to say. 229 00:13:44,693 --> 00:13:47,093 Speaker 2: As well, it is it is a fun thing to say. 230 00:13:47,253 --> 00:13:51,733 Speaker 2: You do you find that the stories translate well beyond 231 00:13:51,853 --> 00:13:54,813 Speaker 2: New Zealand. I have friends in the United States, and 232 00:13:55,093 --> 00:13:57,573 Speaker 2: whenever they you know, friends have children in the United States, 233 00:13:57,613 --> 00:14:00,333 Speaker 2: I always send them the complete Heary McCleary. And I'm 234 00:14:00,373 --> 00:14:03,853 Speaker 2: always amazed at, you know, without the kind of cultural 235 00:14:03,853 --> 00:14:07,053 Speaker 2: references that New Zealanders or even bread might see in 236 00:14:07,093 --> 00:14:13,213 Speaker 2: the books, and how it seems to cross those international 237 00:14:13,253 --> 00:14:18,733 Speaker 2: borders and delight children, you know, whoever, completely different context. 238 00:14:19,853 --> 00:14:23,493 Speaker 3: All the dogs everywhere, cats everywhere. You know that the 239 00:14:23,613 --> 00:14:28,773 Speaker 3: things I write about are international and somehow everybody forgives 240 00:14:28,773 --> 00:14:34,373 Speaker 3: me for doing things are slightly strange in a different setting. 241 00:14:34,453 --> 00:14:39,053 Speaker 3: Although funny enough, the poor Education department in Scotland got 242 00:14:39,093 --> 00:14:42,973 Speaker 3: into trouble for claiming Harry McCleary did they read, were 243 00:14:43,013 --> 00:14:47,373 Speaker 3: recommending him, you know, the books for the readers in 244 00:14:47,453 --> 00:14:50,893 Speaker 3: schools and whatnot, and then suddenly go into their embarrassment 245 00:14:51,013 --> 00:14:54,813 Speaker 3: that he doesn't come from Scotland. Well, I said to myself, 246 00:14:54,853 --> 00:14:58,413 Speaker 3: how on earth do you could you imagine that he 247 00:14:58,533 --> 00:15:01,733 Speaker 3: did when you actually look at the pictures, they're nothing 248 00:15:02,053 --> 00:15:05,813 Speaker 3: like New Zealand houses. Scott's houses don't have corrgate for 249 00:15:05,893 --> 00:15:10,693 Speaker 3: the home. No. I mean they really should have looked 250 00:15:10,733 --> 00:15:14,933 Speaker 3: a little harder, perhaps before they made that decision. But 251 00:15:15,173 --> 00:15:16,493 Speaker 3: I thought that was rather fun. 252 00:15:16,533 --> 00:15:20,733 Speaker 2: Really. It must be the ultimate compliment to have your 253 00:15:20,813 --> 00:15:23,773 Speaker 2: work being claimed by other countries like that on the 254 00:15:23,813 --> 00:15:25,253 Speaker 2: other side of the world. That has to be a 255 00:15:25,253 --> 00:15:25,733 Speaker 2: good sign. 256 00:15:25,773 --> 00:15:29,213 Speaker 3: I think it is a very exciting I can tell 257 00:15:29,293 --> 00:15:32,373 Speaker 3: you I was really madly excited by that thing. I 258 00:15:32,493 --> 00:15:38,293 Speaker 3: wasn't offended. I just thought he's okay over there too, 259 00:15:38,413 --> 00:15:43,213 Speaker 3: so that's great, no problem, No, it's lovely. 260 00:15:44,053 --> 00:15:46,293 Speaker 2: I know you've got to go in a moment, But 261 00:15:47,133 --> 00:15:50,213 Speaker 2: are you still sketching, are you're still writing, You're still 262 00:15:50,253 --> 00:15:51,893 Speaker 2: playing with words. 263 00:15:52,213 --> 00:15:54,693 Speaker 3: I'm in a sort of roll period at the moment 264 00:15:54,773 --> 00:15:58,013 Speaker 3: because I've been so busy with other things. But I 265 00:15:58,013 --> 00:16:01,693 Speaker 3: can feel a slight urge coming on again. I've done 266 00:16:01,773 --> 00:16:06,093 Speaker 3: thirty three. There are thirty three books altogether, so the 267 00:16:07,053 --> 00:16:11,373 Speaker 3: twenty one that a Harry McCarry and assorted others like 268 00:16:11,653 --> 00:16:16,213 Speaker 3: Slinking the Linky and whatnot, and then other completely different 269 00:16:16,213 --> 00:16:20,573 Speaker 3: ones on different subjects altogether, like The Smallest Turtle and 270 00:16:21,293 --> 00:16:22,253 Speaker 3: various other ones. 271 00:16:22,093 --> 00:16:27,733 Speaker 2: The Smallest Turtles beautiful. It's so beautiful. It gets down 272 00:16:27,853 --> 00:16:31,093 Speaker 2: to the cool, cool water on his body, and yeah, 273 00:16:31,133 --> 00:16:32,893 Speaker 2: it's a beautiful story. 274 00:16:33,893 --> 00:16:36,773 Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm glad you like it. It certainly began 275 00:16:36,893 --> 00:16:41,893 Speaker 3: with a TV program actually, the Baby Turtle came, you know, 276 00:16:41,893 --> 00:16:46,453 Speaker 3: a typical David Attenborough one, and the family were mad 277 00:16:46,533 --> 00:16:49,133 Speaker 3: keen on those and we were all sitting watching it 278 00:16:49,133 --> 00:16:53,653 Speaker 3: one Sunday afternoon and this turtle was baby Turtle was late. 279 00:16:54,013 --> 00:16:56,613 Speaker 3: All the other turtles had already gone, and it was 280 00:16:56,693 --> 00:17:00,653 Speaker 3: later coming up and it was going the wrong way, 281 00:17:00,693 --> 00:17:03,653 Speaker 3: and the family were all saying turn it round, turn it. 282 00:17:03,853 --> 00:17:07,053 Speaker 2: Frost yelling at television. 283 00:17:07,333 --> 00:17:12,493 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's how that one began. Actually, I thought, 284 00:17:12,573 --> 00:17:14,573 Speaker 3: I said, I must have a book about the turtle. 285 00:17:14,653 --> 00:17:19,613 Speaker 2: It does get Yeah, I'm going to be very embarrassing here, Lindy. 286 00:17:19,813 --> 00:17:22,333 Speaker 2: Do your publishers tell you? Does anyone keep a telling 287 00:17:22,413 --> 00:17:23,653 Speaker 2: for how many books you've sold? 288 00:17:25,373 --> 00:17:28,693 Speaker 3: Well, people have been telling me since this excitement this week, 289 00:17:28,773 --> 00:17:33,853 Speaker 3: have been telling me figures that I can hardly believe. Actually, yes, 290 00:17:33,933 --> 00:17:39,293 Speaker 3: I do get an idea, but it's almost terrifying to you. 291 00:17:40,173 --> 00:17:42,173 Speaker 2: What's it? What's the idea that other people say, what 292 00:17:42,653 --> 00:17:43,333 Speaker 2: others say? 293 00:17:44,573 --> 00:17:48,453 Speaker 3: Well, suddenly said somebody said to me this week five villion. 294 00:17:48,533 --> 00:17:52,453 Speaker 3: I think it was. You know that that is a 295 00:17:52,453 --> 00:17:54,813 Speaker 3: bit sort of overpowering. 296 00:17:54,893 --> 00:18:00,133 Speaker 2: Really, yeah, I mean I would be surprised if it 297 00:18:00,173 --> 00:18:04,293 Speaker 2: were any fewer, I really would. I just think, yeah, 298 00:18:05,213 --> 00:18:10,173 Speaker 2: I think you have. You've brought delight to so so 299 00:18:10,373 --> 00:18:14,493 Speaker 2: many people in so many countries, and it's now at 300 00:18:14,493 --> 00:18:18,453 Speaker 2: a stage where, you know, the children who grew up 301 00:18:19,013 --> 00:18:21,453 Speaker 2: being read your stories and now the ones reading them 302 00:18:21,453 --> 00:18:24,133 Speaker 2: to their children, And that's a that's an incredible legacy. 303 00:18:24,653 --> 00:18:26,373 Speaker 3: That makes me feel like about one hundreds. 304 00:18:26,453 --> 00:18:29,973 Speaker 2: So that's not what I'm suggesting for a moment. 305 00:18:30,093 --> 00:18:35,373 Speaker 3: I know not. Yeah, yeah, you have. You have been 306 00:18:35,493 --> 00:18:38,653 Speaker 3: very kind to me, Jack. You wrote a lovely piece 307 00:18:39,333 --> 00:18:42,333 Speaker 3: recently and I did appreciate what you said. It was 308 00:18:42,413 --> 00:18:42,933 Speaker 3: so nice. 309 00:18:44,373 --> 00:18:46,733 Speaker 2: The least I could do, like I say, the amount 310 00:18:46,773 --> 00:18:48,973 Speaker 2: of joy you've brought our household alone, and then to 311 00:18:49,133 --> 00:18:51,653 Speaker 2: think about how many times that's been replicated as a 312 00:18:51,693 --> 00:18:54,133 Speaker 2: remarkable thing. So look, thank you so much for giving 313 00:18:54,213 --> 00:18:54,693 Speaker 2: us your time. 314 00:18:54,893 --> 00:18:57,693 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you too, very much. 315 00:18:58,213 --> 00:19:01,893 Speaker 2: We really appreciate it. Congratulations on the Legacy Award at 316 00:19:01,893 --> 00:19:04,533 Speaker 2: the New Zealander of the Year this week, and all 317 00:19:04,573 --> 00:19:06,973 Speaker 2: the very best. Yeah, we look forward to hearing from 318 00:19:06,973 --> 00:19:09,893 Speaker 2: you again soon. Dame Linley Dodd with us this morning. 319 00:19:10,973 --> 00:19:14,053 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live 320 00:19:14,173 --> 00:19:16,973 Speaker 1: to News Talks ed B from nine am Saturday, or 321 00:19:17,053 --> 00:19:18,893 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.