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Speaker 1: Ginny Anderson is with us along with Mike Mitchell. Good

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Speaker 1: morning to both of you too. Good morning now, Jinny.

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Speaker 2: I'm still in shock. I'm still in shocked that you

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Speaker 2: actually played Katie Perry coming to tempt.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a bit much, isn't it. We try and

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Speaker 1: be a bit hip and groovy every now and again,

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Speaker 1: just to go for the younger demo. Anyway, Now, what

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Speaker 1: were you meaning in your press release here? Sometimes tense

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Speaker 1: relationship between Costa and Mitchell. It was always going to

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Speaker 1: be hard for a dog handler and a detective to

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Speaker 1: see eye to eye on these big, over arching strategic issues.

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Speaker 1: Now what what sort of knife were you pulling out

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Speaker 1: of your sheath there and stabbing it into his back?

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Speaker 2: I think another all, I just think that they came

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Speaker 2: to the job front perspectives and that came out pretty

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Speaker 2: clear right from the start.

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Speaker 1: Okay, were your thoughts your thoughts on.

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Speaker 3: Well, firstly, that was a clear swe again clus it

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Speaker 3: didn't Jenerson make it personal clear swe at the door

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Speaker 3: the correspondent, Well, you can explain it to Jenny Butt.

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Speaker 3: And now that the correspondence out there and the dog

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Speaker 3: section is hilarious, they think that it's very funny that

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Speaker 3: an ex civilian worker from P and HQ is having

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Speaker 3: a swipe at the dog section are actually out there

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Speaker 3: doing that, Mark. And by the way, Jenny, if I'm

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Speaker 3: going to talk about public service, I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 3: I'll measure you up against sergeants who burge the oc

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Speaker 3: of the woman we dog section that said who I

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Speaker 3: was with last week we actually actually doing the hard

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Speaker 3: yards and doesn't really appreciate. I don't think the dogs

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Speaker 3: section really appreciate being criticized for the work that they're

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Speaker 3: out there doing. And by the way, the other thing

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Speaker 3: that's really puzzling about this whole thing, Mike, is that

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure Ginny Nson married an ex police dog handler. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It just goes to the point, Mike, doesn't it that

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Speaker 2: I wasn't being critical at all of the dog section.

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Speaker 2: My point was they had different operational perspectives. And if

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Speaker 2: Mark so sensitive that he takes that to heart and

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Speaker 2: I apologize.

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Speaker 3: So well, it was an unneess seried personal swap, Jinny,

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Speaker 3: and you've got a habit of doing those, so I'd

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Speaker 3: just say, just spook it down a little bit, doesn't I'm.

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Speaker 2: Sorry that your sense to him and I don't want

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Speaker 2: to hurt your feelings.

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Speaker 1: I didn't mean to apology and minutes past eight, what Jenny,

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Speaker 1: your thoughts? Your thoughts on Costa.

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Speaker 2: He's a great guy, like he's intelligent. He worked incredibly

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Speaker 2: hard and I worked alongside of him when I was

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Speaker 2: in police when he was an assistant commissioner and irate him.

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Speaker 2: I think he's a good person who did a great job,

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Speaker 2: and he went above and beyond to do everything he could,

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Speaker 2: and he had some really challenging things to deal with.

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Speaker 1: Was one of them your government.

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Speaker 2: One of them was a protest for sure, and I

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Speaker 2: think his comments around COVID and what that did asciata

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Speaker 2: and what that did to crime in New Zealand was

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Speaker 2: one of the big things that he had to grapple with.

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Speaker 1: The interesting thing that he said yesterday, his most defining moment,

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Speaker 1: or his proudest moment, was where they cleared that protest out.

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Speaker 1: My argument would be he should never have let the

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Speaker 1: protests get to where it did in the first place.

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Speaker 2: It's really difficult in hindsight to see operation what could

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Speaker 2: have been done better. I've heard, I mean from police

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Speaker 2: that when met big Dove come in, that big reign

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Speaker 2: that really made an impact on the tense that that

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Speaker 2: was an opportunity that could have been used. I mean,

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Speaker 2: in hindsight is twenty twenty vision of what could have

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Speaker 2: been done better. But I think whatever happens, both parliament,

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Speaker 2: MP's and the police all entt a lot from how

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Speaker 2: we could do things better next time.

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Speaker 1: Mark, is it fair to suggest, and particularly Luckson's comments

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Speaker 1: yesterday as well as yours, that you've either changed your

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Speaker 1: mind or you're so glad he's leaving that you couldn't

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Speaker 1: help yourself but being nice because what you did say

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Speaker 1: and what you said yesterday are two completely different things.

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Speaker 3: No. I think in opposition was very clear that I

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Speaker 3: didn't agree the direction on which the government was taking

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Speaker 3: us as in terms of their policies in public safety

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Speaker 3: will rapidly as the commissioners set himself, he's got to

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Speaker 3: serve the government of to day. That is difficult, but

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Speaker 3: I would say that as the incoming government, and as

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Speaker 3: I released my very clear leader of expectation, which I

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Speaker 3: released publicly so that old country could see, he's responded

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Speaker 3: to that without a doubt, and he's put a shoulder

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Speaker 3: to the wheel and like you said to himself, we're

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Speaker 3: starting a sense of good early results from them. We've

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Speaker 3: got a long way to go. It's a lot more

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Speaker 3: we have to do, but you know, there's definitely been

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Speaker 3: a response.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Jinny Richard Chambers and is it jabonevon mix Skimming Ginny?

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Speaker 1: You know those two?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I know them.

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Speaker 1: They would they make good commissioners.

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Speaker 2: Either of them be great. They're both good, good police

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Speaker 2: officers who have done many years of operational police service

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Speaker 2: in the organization very well, different set of skills, but

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Speaker 2: they're both great.

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Speaker 3: Mark, Yeah, I agree, as I work very closely obviously

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Speaker 3: with Givin and Mike Rolls Burster. I don't know Richards

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Speaker 3: as well, but he's also got a very big reputation

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Speaker 3: in a lot of experience. And you don't get to

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Speaker 3: be an assistant commissioner or a deputy commissioner without having met.

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Speaker 1: And so they will present you with a couple of options.

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Speaker 1: You and the Prime Minister will make the choice, is

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Speaker 1: my understanding.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's right. So it goes to a panel.

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Speaker 3: Now the Public Service Commission runs that process. They'll come

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Speaker 3: with recommendation to myself which I then take to the

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Speaker 3: Prime Minister and ultimately the Prime minister and I make

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Speaker 3: the decision on who will be appointed as our next

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Speaker 3: police commissioner.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic, Jenny. Do you have a view on four year

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Speaker 1: terms or not?

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Speaker 2: Well, my recollection is I have for my sins a

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Speaker 2: week for Judith Colins. When I was in police she

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Speaker 2: was minister and that was when National FOOSK came in

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight and I'd been working previously

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Speaker 2: as a an in the Beehive and you and what

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Speaker 2: struck me was when you had a new government coming in,

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Speaker 2: it took them a full year to just understand how

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Speaker 2: the system worked. And I'm not being critical at all,

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Speaker 2: it was just people had never been ministers before coming

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Speaker 2: in trying to come to terms with it. Then they

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Speaker 2: had about a year to do stuff and then you

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Speaker 2: had a year of campaigning. So, especially when you're a

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Speaker 2: first term government, even harder when you're in a coalition

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Speaker 2: because you've got three different parties with three different agendas.

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Speaker 2: Trying to deliver stuff is becoming harder and harder. And

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Speaker 2: so I think that a four tune you will be

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Speaker 2: at a way for foot New Zealand to procrease in

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Speaker 2: see continuity over time.

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Speaker 3: What do you reckon well, I don't accept for a

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Speaker 3: minute that Juith Collins needed a year.

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Speaker 2: They all and I'm not saying labor as well.

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Speaker 3: There's there's nonsense that I wish you shouldn't be a minister,

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Speaker 3: you shouldn't be a missile government. Well there, I look.

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Speaker 1: At you guys. You're a year and now right, and

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Speaker 1: you've done a lot of stuff. Simeon Brown's announced more

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Speaker 1: things than he's actually done. I mean, that guy's held

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Speaker 1: more press conferences than he's put through legislation. And you're

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Speaker 1: still working through a lot of what you want to do,

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Speaker 1: and you'll need all of this one year plus you'll

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Speaker 1: need all of next and then at the end of

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Speaker 1: the next year, presumably you'll go, look what we've done.

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Speaker 1: Here we go, let's have an election campaign.

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Speaker 3: The first part is in terms of continuity, and I

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Speaker 3: think favor I've sort of moved into four year space

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Speaker 3: as well in terms of getting things done, though certainly

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Speaker 3: in my portfolio we're getting things done within six feet state,

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Speaker 3: six st eight weeks. Changes were starting to take and

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Speaker 3: then I can point to those. So I just don't

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Speaker 3: expect if if you're seriously saying that you can't give

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Speaker 3: anything done in the twelve months. You've got to have

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Speaker 3: a look at yourself.

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Speaker 1: On Okay, let me give you a couple of examples.

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Speaker 1: Where are the.

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Speaker 3: Fairies the fairies decision that's just that. Well, let me

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Speaker 3: give you some examples in mind portfolios.

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Speaker 1: Why are we doing one hundred and twenty gas on

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Speaker 1: the roads of national significant significance?

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Speaker 3: Yet do you see more beat officers on the.

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Speaker 1: Street were incredible. What I'm saying is point. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff you haven't done.

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Speaker 3: You've been there a year, So I'm not saying that

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Speaker 3: or so you in it one minute. What I'm saying

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Speaker 3: is that I don't think the text parts of this

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Speaker 3: country expect a government to change and then everyone's sit

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Speaker 3: around for twelve months and not doing anything. There's been

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Speaker 3: an enormous legislation program underway that's now this lot done

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Speaker 3: in the first eight months of this government. There had

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Speaker 3: been some big fundamental changes made. We do have a

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Speaker 3: world class public service that will adapt and start to

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Speaker 3: deliver on that. I just think that to accept the

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Speaker 3: fact that Judith Collins came and then couldn't do something

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Speaker 3: in twelve months that's redisted before. Of course you could

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Speaker 3: so do it.

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Speaker 1: In conclusion, both of you, both of you would favor

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Speaker 1: a four year Probably.

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Speaker 2: You get more time, You get more time to because

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Speaker 2: it's a crazy rush and you see, you know, things

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Speaker 2: being done like, for example, announcements being made just that

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Speaker 2: sound good or for the face of it without actually

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Speaker 2: really delivering things. And if you're serious about making long

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Speaker 2: tum change on infrastructure, on important things like transport, you

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Speaker 2: need a longer period of time to deliver those properly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, would you, Jenny, while I've got you work from home,

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Speaker 1: would you do you broadly agree with what the government's

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Speaker 1: done or you don't mind?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's a bit of a how many hours

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Speaker 2: from home because they don't know that for sure. I

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Speaker 2: did find it interesting that the day they don't meet,

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Speaker 2: but you know, they check out child poverty targets and also,

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Speaker 2: chron McKey, you put stuff through cabinet that loosens up

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Speaker 2: gun ranges that the stand up and cabinet is all

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Speaker 2: about making public servants go back to work. So I

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Speaker 2: think it's politics of distraction, to be honest, but people

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Speaker 2: definitely should go to work. I'm more concerned about the

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Speaker 2: six thousands who don't have jobs in Willington in the

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Speaker 2: state of the Wellington local economy as a result of that.

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Speaker 3: Mike Well, I just thought that, you know, it's at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, working from home arrangements that

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Speaker 3: should not be seen as entitlement. There should be some

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Speaker 3: flexibility in the system, but it should be a genuine

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Speaker 3: agreement between the employee and the employer. I think that

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Speaker 3: there is definitely absolute value and being in the office,

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Speaker 3: building those relationships, getting mentoring from more senior colleagues around

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Speaker 3: experience and personal growth. I think there's a whole lot

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Speaker 3: of reasons why, very good reasons why that connection is

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Speaker 3: really important. And so, you know, and I completely totally

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Speaker 3: support what the Minister's done.

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Speaker 1: Good stuff, go well and we'll see next Wednesday, Mike Mitchell,

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Speaker 1: Ginny Anderson.

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