1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Right's New Zealand's future involvement in the Paris Agreement is 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: up in the air. David Seymour has hinted that ACT 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: may campaign on leaving the accord after the twenty twenty 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: six election. Now, Donald Trump's already pulled the United States 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: from the scheme in his Fortnight of Action, and there's 6 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: concerned that other big admitters could pack their bags too. 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 1: Talks it up to fifty percent of the people. It 8 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: might be countries might be leaving now. The Associate Professor 9 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: of Environmental Law at the University of Wayhadow is doctor 10 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: Nathan John Cooper, who joins her now Hella. 11 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 2: Nathan Kyoda, good morning. 12 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: Is the whole agreement in trouble with so many people 13 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: saying we're pulling out, Well. 14 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 2: I think that's premature. One of the great successes of 15 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 2: the Paris Agreement was just how many countries signed up, 16 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: and so while while obviously the US has signaled that 17 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 2: it's beginning to withdraw, I think the vast majority of 18 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: countries are going to remain in that framework for this 19 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: civil future. 20 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: But if the bigger misters leave, you know, if the 21 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: US leaves as it already has, if China and India 22 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: decide to SCARPA, why should a little old New Zealand stay. 23 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think China, India or Russia are likely 24 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 2: to leave. However, I think climate change, which obviously is 25 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 2: the big challenge that the Paris Agreement is there to 26 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: respond to. It's a global challenge, and so it really 27 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: doesn't make sense for individual countries to move away from 28 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: a framework that pulls together our contributions, coordinates things, monitors 29 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 2: them in favor of just some sort of independent action. 30 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: But it's a bit to say that a lot of 31 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 1: people have fallen out of the Paris Climate Accords because 32 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: of the mechanisms used to combec climate change, that they 33 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: feel theoretical, that they don't feel like they're actually going 34 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: to make any change, and they're expensive. 35 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: Sure, there's no doubt that some of the action that's 36 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: required is expensive, and it's inconvenient as we transition towards 37 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 2: sort of low carbon options. That's all pretty inconvenient, But 38 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, that needs to be 39 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 2: balanced against the size of the problem that's being faced. 40 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: The problem. 41 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: I know the problem, but does the Climate Accords the solution? 42 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: Are they working? Have we seen any of these mechanisms work. 43 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: I suppose it depends what you mean by work. Ultimately, 44 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: the Paris agreement's there to try to strengthen global response 45 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: to climate change, principally by limiting global average temperature rise. Now, 46 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: we saw in twenty twenty four that actually over the 47 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: course of that year, the average temperature rise compared to 48 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 2: perior industrial levels was around about that one point five degrees, 49 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: which has always been the sort of first Paris Paris target. 50 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 2: So in that respect, the world is warming, it's warming 51 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 2: quicker than we wanted to, and so you could say 52 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: that it's not succeeding. But if we look a little 53 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: bit deeper as to why maybe there's less success under 54 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: the Paris Agreement than we were of liked, a lot 55 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: of it is that commitments are made by countries, but 56 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 2: that we don't actually follow through with those commitments, so. 57 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: In which case it doesn't work. So people it's what 58 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: people will say is it's virtue signaling. We go to 59 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: a meeting, we say big stuff, we do nothing, So 60 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: what's the point. 61 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: Sure, I think there's a long way between doing everything 62 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: that's required and the alternatives doing nothing. So countries are 63 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: stepping up and it's been encouraging to see recently that 64 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: some countries newly announced nationally determined contributions they're kind of 65 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: pledged for the next round of emissions reductions have been 66 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: pretty ambitious. Unfortunately, I don't think New Zealand's own pledge 67 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: has been as ambitious as it could have been. But 68 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: there's definitely a big catorry. No, but there's definitely quite 69 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: a lot of examples there as to how the Paris 70 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 2: Agreement is encouraging countries to step up in a way 71 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: that we've never seen before. I mean, this is the biggest, 72 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 2: it's the biggest climate agreement, is the biggest international treaty 73 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: that we've seen. 74 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: All Right, Doctor Nathan John Cooper, I thank you for 75 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: your time, Associate Professor of Environmental Law, University of Waykata Day. 76 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: For more from earlier edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live 77 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 2: to News Talks it be from five am weekdays, or 78 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.