1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, a name 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: you can trust locally and globally. 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 2: On the huddle of this evening, Thomas Scrimger maximums to 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 2: Mark Sainsbury broadcast to high. 5 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 3: You too, Thomas, where are you on this? 6 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 4: Oh? Look? 7 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 5: It's obviously an incredible tragedy a young child dies in 8 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 5: a situation like this. I think calls for a government 9 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 5: intervention and regulation come from a really good places desire 10 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 5: that no one should pass away too young. But I 11 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 5: actually think it's really hard to imagine what a good 12 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 5: literary intervention would be. You know, to write the rules 13 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 5: that are specific enough for every situation, and then who 14 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 5: is enforcing these rules and how do they follow through? 15 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 5: There are all sorts of consumer products that are good 16 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 5: and we should think about how we can advocate more 17 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 5: for them, and obviously education for parents about the risks 18 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 5: of these things. But as soon as you start creating 19 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 5: a rule, you get these explosion of exceptions to the rule, 20 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 5: and you have to get people to guess enforce the 21 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 5: rule and inspect for the rule. These things that I 22 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 5: really don't see how it or something like blind this 23 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 5: is really a viable system. 24 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 4: What do you think, Sanza, Well, I feel for the 25 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 4: I feel for the parents. I mean that Courtney and 26 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 4: Ryan and I think they're owed something a bit more 27 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 4: than what they got from the minister as well, just 28 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,279 Speaker 4: simply saying we're not looking at progressing this at this time. 29 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 4: I've lost their darling little daughter. There's been other incidents 30 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 4: have happened since then. You imagine that sudden they're going, 31 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 4: what the hell you know? And what they've been told, 32 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 4: it's just a paucity of it. I just think it 33 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 4: was sort of quite disrespectful of the way. They should 34 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 4: have been given a lot more than what they were 35 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 4: And if they say that there wasn't a matter of 36 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 4: doing it, then explain it to them. 37 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I understand there's a bit of communication there now, Thomas. 38 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: That was a pretty quick tidy up of the old 39 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 2: water tax situation from Chris Bishop, wasn't it. 40 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 4: Well. 41 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 5: I'm impressed here that you can get them on the 42 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 5: line that quickly. They're clearly worried about the farmers getting 43 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 5: a b and their bonnet abouts water charges, and then 44 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 5: for my part, I'd be wanting a right wing government 45 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 5: to have a bit more courage use the pays as 46 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,399 Speaker 5: something they like to talk about in other areas. Maybe 47 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 5: they should be willing to poke the farmers and see, well, 48 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 5: why shouldn't you be paying for water? I pay for 49 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 5: water on my house and I use less water because 50 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 5: of it. Why night you that pays for water says so? 51 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, Look, the thing I was most impressed by the've 52 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 4: read through your legislation to clause three hundred and thirteen 53 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 4: to find this thing that they were so worried about. Yeah, look, 54 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 4: I agree with Thomas. I mean, we pay your board, 55 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 4: you know, most people around the country. You know, we 56 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 4: can't escape board taxes that somehow should farmers be guaranteed 57 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 4: water for free forever? And you can sort of see 58 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 4: why that have sort of you know, they'll keep some 59 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 4: provision in there to give themselves some wheel room. But 60 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 4: it's upset the base and election here you don't upset 61 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 4: the base. 62 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: Well, I think you make a very good point saying so. 63 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 2: And I think what surprises me is that they're trying 64 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: to get this one past the That's weird, isn't it. 65 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, look, I have impressed that they've been just 66 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 4: pouring over this legislation and yeah, and look out quickly, 67 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 4: look at you got you got it sorted. 68 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: To Heather, I didn't get it sorted. I mean they 69 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: got it sorted between themselves. We are only here to facilitate. 70 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: But Thomas, can you explain to me why it is 71 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: that they tried to get the swamp past the farmers 72 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 2: because it was always. 73 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 3: Going to get found out. 74 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 2: You just chuck it and chat GPT and you say 75 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: is there a water attacks in this regulation? 76 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 3: And it tells you yes there is. 77 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 5: Well, I think the reason you try it is because 78 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 5: the costs, if you have to backtrack politically, are not 79 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 5: that high. Better added farmers has come out, They've made 80 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 5: a bunch of noise and very quickly the Minister's decided 81 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 5: it's not worth the fight. But even he has said 82 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 5: now that they have categorically ruled out using it, and 83 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 5: he's committed to, well, maybe a Select committee will remove 84 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 5: the provision. He hasn't committed to removing the provision and 85 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 5: they're going to see, well how much of a harbor 86 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 5: baloo is there really? And ply depends on what the 87 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 5: coalition partners will do. It probably not. I've had a 88 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 5: huge amount of risk of the farming base moving en 89 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 5: mass to the political left. But if act or New 90 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 5: Zealand first start agitating against this, well then maybe they'll 91 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 5: be worried about losing farmers to another of the coalition partners. Yeah, 92 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 5: but test waters see what happens. 93 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 3: Ye, fair point from here. 94 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: Okay, we'll come back in in just a take and 95 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: talk about Winston Peter's plan to campaign on a referendum 96 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: for the Marty seeds. 97 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty the only 98 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: truly global brand. 99 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: It's twelve away from sexy. 100 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: Back of the Huddle, Mark Sainsbury, Thomas Scrimser, Right, Sam, 101 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 2: So what did you think of Winston coming out and 102 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: saying he wants a referendum on the Marty seats and 103 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: he's going to campaign on it. 104 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 4: Well, whenever I hear Winston talk about the Maray seats, 105 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 4: my mind always goes back to nineteen ninety six when 106 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 4: New Zealand first had all five Mariy seats and the 107 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 4: shamuzzle that occurred after that. You know, when Bolger got 108 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 4: rolled and the Chippy government people jumping ship. You could 109 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 4: almost say the same thing. I mean, Winston was saying 110 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 4: that that Maury Page's behavior has been the last draw. 111 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 4: This is the reason why they should go. Well, you 112 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 4: know MP's performance and that role wasn't wasn't that wasn't 113 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 4: that great. It's a bit rich to sort of say, well, 114 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 4: because Marie k party, mari MPs aren't turning up on time, 115 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 4: we're doing this or doing that the reason to get 116 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 4: rid of them. I think that's saying, I think to 117 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 4: the somewhat sort of less attractive side of Kiwi's natures. 118 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 3: Do you think it'll be popular those sayings? 119 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 4: Though? Look, yeah, these things, I mean they always are. 120 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 4: But then again, you know it's like you look at 121 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 4: the Treaty Principal's bill and all the sort of opposition, 122 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 4: and that caused you sort of thought, well, they had 123 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 4: a ready audience. So yeah, it's I mean you look 124 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 4: at the scene and you say, well, why on earth 125 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 4: do we have Mariis seats. It's sort of why do 126 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 4: we have mari or blacks or I mean there was 127 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 4: an historical reason and I think it's a value to us. 128 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 4: You look at Australia, I mean they couldn't even get 129 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 4: the voice through. I think Marie's seats do add something to. 130 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 3: The new Zealand. 131 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 4: The what do they add they guarantee, they guarantee Mari representation. 132 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 4: I think that's and I reckon that is important. I 133 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 4: mean Mary already have. 134 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: I mean, this is the problem is that, like, it's 135 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: a nice idea, but Mary already have twenty seven percent 136 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: representation versus seventeen percent actual in the population. If we're 137 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: going to do that, could we could guarantee representation for anybody? 138 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 2: But actually MMP salts it out, doesn't it well? 139 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 4: Don't we allso well? But mm P can But I 140 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 4: mean that's in many ways, I'd argue what even peak 141 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 4: gives a bigger voice in any case, I mean, if 142 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 4: it's in those in the specified seats now and no, 143 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 4: it looks like an anachronism, but I still believe there's 144 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 4: a merit, especially given the constitution, well of a semi 145 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 4: constitutional arrangement in terms of New Zealand and the treaty, 146 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 4: I think there's still a place for them. 147 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 5: Thomas, Oh, look, I mean my basic take is that 148 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 5: there's nothing new under the sun. Winston was talking about 149 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 5: this in twenty seventeen. He had a good election, he 150 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 5: ended up in government, and that promptly went nowhere. So 151 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 5: regardless of the pros and cons of it, And I 152 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 5: think Winston's trying to move in on acts supporters who 153 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 5: like the treaty principal stuff, But regardless of whether one's 154 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 5: keen for it, I wouldn't be betting on Winston actually 155 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 5: pushing it ahead. He's sort of launching it into a 156 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 5: political campaign and hoping to get a bit of track. 157 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: You've cut to the heart of the problem here, having 158 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: your Thomas because he's promised this Beforeward twenty seventeen and 159 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 2: then he didn't deliver. 160 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 3: And actually, if you look at his unless there is. 161 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,679 Speaker 2: Something that involves throwing money at an issue, he actually 162 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: doesn't really deliver that much on his promises, does he? 163 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 5: For sure? And I'm cynical about what Winston is doing 164 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 5: with this. But then to give the other side of 165 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 5: the matter, we can't act like this is an unhavable conversation. 166 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 5: It's really important as a nation that we can say 167 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 5: someone can argue in public against the existence of MARVEI 168 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 5: seats and then they can get a rebuttal against them. 169 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 5: But I think too often there's this instinctual reaction from 170 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 5: large portions of the country that it is beyond the 171 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 5: Pale to suggest that we might remove the Marti seeds. 172 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 5: I think they have utility still, but we can't say 173 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 5: no never, you can't even raise it. 174 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: Must do you think they have utility? 175 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 4: Well? 176 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 5: I think they do. I think well so. I think 177 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 5: first of all, people often talk about Mardi representation in 178 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 5: Parliament and that's a misguided way of thinking about it 179 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 5: because electorates aren't there to give representation to too ethnic 180 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 5: groups that they're there to identify specific constituencies. And historically 181 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 5: Marti and New Zealand have remained a distinct constituency with 182 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 5: political interests and they haven't yet been convinced that that 183 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 5: no longer exists. I'm not saying we could never get 184 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 5: rid of them, but they were given for a specific 185 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 5: reason which wasn't Mary representation. It was distinct electorates and 186 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 5: that has continued. So ut less we can make a 187 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 5: positive case for why there is not a distinct set 188 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 5: of interests they should endure right now. 189 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 4: The other issue here there is why didn't you put 190 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 4: it up as a coalition condition currently? 191 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: Well, because don't you think saying so though it's the 192 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: kind of thing that you really need a mandate for, 193 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 2: it's but it's not something that you can just sort 194 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 2: of float midway through a term and surprise people with. 195 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I think Thomas is right. We shouldn't be 196 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 4: afraid of having the discussion and there's no and people 197 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 4: can advance all the sort of reasons they're like and 198 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 4: that we should be able to have a mature discussion 199 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 4: of the problem is, whenever we get into this, it 200 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 4: all becomes people accused of race bathing or actually are 201 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 4: race baiting, or you know, it gets in hused as 202 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 4: a political as a political pawn. 203 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, guys, it's good to talk to you. 204 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Thomas Scrimger, Mark Sainsbury. 205 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 206 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 1: news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 207 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.