1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Right now. Nicola Willis is here, the Finance minister. Minister, 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: good evening, good evening, Great to have you on the show. 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: Let's talk growth because it's a big focus at the moment. 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of commentary about your government. Obviously 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: you're moving on the foreign investment stuff. That's good. There's 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: some tinkering to be done with immigration settings, with nomad 7 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: visas etc. Are we going to see anything transformational from 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: you in this role? 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: Well, transformational is a word that Jacinda Ardern used to 10 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: use a lot, so it's not one I repeat in 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 2: my lexicon that much. But are you going to see 12 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: bold initiatives that will make it easier for firms in 13 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: New Zealand to invest, to hire people and to grow. Yes, 14 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 2: will it be one silver bullet? No, because what we 15 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: know from economies the world over is it's never just 16 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: one thing. You actually have to do a lot of 17 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: things right that are on the side of growth. You 18 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: have to educate your people, you have to have not 19 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: too much regulation, you have to have a tax system 20 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 2: that works well. You have to have good trading relationships. 21 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: You need to encourage people to come and invest in 22 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 2: your country. So we've got a lot of work to 23 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: do because for I would say successive decades, governments in 24 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: New Zealand have been complacent about growth. They've always been 25 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: able to trade it off against other things, saying we've 26 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: got to be careful about this, we've got to be 27 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 2: careful about that, and all of that may be true, 28 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 2: but right now New Zealanders are feeling poorer and if 29 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: we want to feel wealthier, we have to prioritize growth 30 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: and that's what our government is going to do across 31 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: a number of areas. So you will see a lot 32 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: of initiatives from us. You know, people have said, oh, well, tourism, 33 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: that's one small thing. If we got tourism just back 34 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 2: to the levels it was a few years ago, that 35 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 2: would be worth more than three and a half billion 36 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: dollars for the wealth of our economy. That means more jobs, 37 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: people being paid more. It also means hundreds of millions 38 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: of dollars more going into the government accounts, which is 39 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: then available to spend on schools and hospitals and the 40 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: things we can about. So we have to do lots 41 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 2: of things well run, and that's what we're going to do. 42 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: Have we got our company tax settings right. 43 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 2: Well if you compete Zealand with the rest of the world, 44 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 2: we're not as competitive as we used to be, which 45 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 2: is to say that our corporate tax level is reasonably 46 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: high when you compare it to the rest of the 47 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: developed world. So looking at that, our government says, okay, well, 48 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: what could we do to make sure that the tax 49 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: settings in New Zealand are supportive of businesses wanting to 50 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 2: invest and grow, realizing that on the other side of that, 51 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: we have to pay for it, because if we're taking 52 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 2: in less tax, then we have to find other ways 53 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 2: of getting that money so we can invest in the 54 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: things that really matter, our public services, and also ensure 55 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: that we're still on track to get our budget back 56 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: and balance and reduce debt over time. So as a government, 57 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: we need to work through all of those questions. But 58 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: the honest answer to question is we need to be 59 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 2: more competitive in that area. 60 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: So you are looking at changing the corporate tax right. 61 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: Well, there's many different ways we can approach the TEX system. 62 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: One thing is the corporate tax rate, but there are 63 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: all sort of tax rules that sit underneath that, and 64 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 2: I'm actually interested in the detail of the way the 65 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 2: whole system works, not just the headline rate. 66 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: But you're looking at the headline rate and the other 67 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: things together to make it more competitive. 68 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 2: My interest is how do we make sure that it's 69 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: competitive in New Zealand, that a when our small businesses 70 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: here are looking to grow or looking to invest, that 71 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: the tax system doesn't stop them doing that. But also, 72 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: as we look to be a country that other people 73 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: want to invest in and bring their businesses to, how 74 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: can we make this a competitive business environment. Tax is 75 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: one part of that, but it's also about red tape. 76 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: It's about the rules in the Overseas Investment Act, it's 77 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: about being able to get a resource consent, it's about 78 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: employment law, all of those things. Firms will tell you 79 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: they've got a list when they're looking at other countries. 80 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: Tax is one pullo point on the list. It's not 81 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: the only bullet. 82 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: Point, hugely important one, though. Would you look at you know, 83 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: you mentioned international firms, multinationals, and you look at Ireland 84 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: and what Island's done, and we know lucks and likes 85 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: Ireland that you've got so much tax now they're putting 86 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: it into a sovereign wealth fund. Are we going to 87 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: do anything to be more competitive for that type of investment. 88 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 2: Well, we have a sovereign wealth fund too, it's the 89 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 2: New Zealand Super Fund. It's got more than seventy billion 90 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 2: dollars worth of as sets as I talk to you today. 91 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 2: But when we look at Ireland's story, you're right, there's 92 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: a lot that we can take from it. They made 93 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 2: a real active decision to look out to the world 94 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 2: to attract investment, to be a trading nation, to vigorously 95 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 2: improve their education system, to get smart about innovation, and 96 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: they looked at tax. So we can't take tax off 97 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: the table because it could make a difference to our competitiveness. 98 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: We always have to balance that against our other pressing needs, 99 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 2: which include investing in frontline public services, ensuring we're getting 100 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: our deficit down, and taking other staf across the board 101 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: to make ourselves more competitive. 102 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: And what about the fastest depreciation on manufacturing technology purchases. 103 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: The Employers and Manufacturers Association has been on this program 104 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: and told them, you know, that's doing that type of Yes, 105 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: it will cost you something, but you will add to growth, productivity, 106 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: wages will go up. Is that sort of stuff on 107 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: your radar too? 108 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: Oh, look, that's on my radar. That's something that I 109 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: have listened to both the employer and manufacturers, but other 110 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: organizations have promoted that idea to me, and I'm keeping 111 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 2: my mind open to it. Ultimately, Cabinet needs to make 112 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 2: decisions about what our priorities are. We haven't made those 113 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: deliberations yet, but I think it is right when we're 114 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: saying we're a government going for growth, that we do 115 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: keep all of the options on the table and we 116 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 2: consider what we think will make the biggest impact. If 117 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 2: my mind's open. 118 00:05:55,279 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: Okay, if you're going for growth and you're also trying 119 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 1: to get back to surplus, some of these growth ideas 120 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: will cost money. Are you willing to further push surplus 121 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: date out if it means will you prioritize growth? If 122 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:20,239 Speaker 1: it means will you sacrifice surplus? If it means growth, We're. 123 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 2: Going to prioritize growth. But it's not an either or scenario, 124 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: because if we don't run good books, ie, we don't 125 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 2: actually show the people who lend to us internationally that 126 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: we are going to have sustainable finances, then the result 127 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 2: of that can be that it becomes a lot more 128 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 2: expensive for New Zealand as a whole. And New Zealand 129 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 2: is individually to borrow and that's very bad for growth. 130 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 2: So there's always a balancing that goes on here in 131 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 2: terms of funding initiatives that support growth. That's why it's 132 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 2: so important we keep looking all across government and so well, 133 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: where are the areas that we're spending now that are 134 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 2: lower value, because if we did some reprioritizing, then we 135 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: could support the thing that will drive growth faster. And 136 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 2: that's our agenda. It's about saying, how do we get 137 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: the growth that will allow us to have more choices 138 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: in the future, about investing in more public services, and 139 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: on the way through, getting rid of the things that 140 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: aren't moving the dial, that aren't delivering good results for 141 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: New Zealanders, the parts of government that have become slow, wasteful, bureaucratic. 142 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: Let's get resource out of there so we can do 143 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: the exciting things that will make this a more prosperous 144 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 2: country where people can get ahead. 145 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: The Interland of Faery to move on. Why the procuring 146 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: company for the inter island is still not set up well. 147 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: Obviously, Winston Peters is now responsible for keep Rail and 148 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 2: the Fury Project, and I understand that he has the 149 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: appointment process underway. For that company and once directors are pointed, 150 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 2: he will be incorporating it. I think he's got something 151 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: to say about that this week. 152 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: Ok, because it's still the March deadline, right, and if 153 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: we don't get the faery that he wants by March, 154 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: then we're going with your two Toyota ones right, Yeah. 155 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: That's right. Sure, we had a fallback position so that 156 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: if the Minister for Rail doesn't come up with a 157 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: better option, then we've got something ready to go so 158 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: that New Zealanders can be confident. So boats in twenty 159 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: twenty nine. 160 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: So is your package like good and ready to go? 161 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: Because it might come down to the wire with him 162 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: and we don't want to be waiting even more time. 163 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: So is your have you got your little toyotas ready 164 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: to go? 165 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? So Cabinet has agreed to a funding envelope, we've 166 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,119 Speaker 2: agreed to a procurement plan. We've agreed that this fairy 167 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: company that's being set up could do the purchasing of 168 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 2: the ships. We know that there are ships available internationally, 169 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: so that's ready to go. But the Minister for Rail's 170 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: doing the right thing. He is comparing that option with 171 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: what else might be out there. And he's running a 172 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: process to do that, right. 173 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: Okay, Hey, the Waikata Medical School Treasury Advice says that 174 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: they think it's a waste of money. Clearly you think otherwise, 175 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: well do you? 176 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: Well, well, we've taken it to the next stage, which 177 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 2: is what they call a detailed business case. And I 178 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 2: know that's like gobbledy girk, but the idea is, let's 179 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 2: really dig into these numbers about what benefits it will bring. 180 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 2: How many more graduates we'd expect, will they be graduates 181 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 2: who might not otherwise have studied medicine, will we get 182 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 2: more people working in the areas of medicine where we 183 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 2: have shortages, What are the real costs of this? And 184 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 2: so that detailed business case is underway, it's been worked on, 185 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 2: then Cabinet will consider it before making a final decision. 186 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: We're dotting our eyes, we're crossing our t's, we're digging 187 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 2: into the detail as you'd expect. 188 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: Minister, Thank you very much for your time. Thank you, 189 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: Finance Minister Nicola Willison. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, 190 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: listen live to news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 191 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.