1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,639 Speaker 1: Afternoon, Welcome to the show. New Zealand is not getting 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: banged for it's buck when we spend on infrastructure. This 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: is according to the Infrastructure Commission's first draft National Infrastructure Plan, 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: which reckons that our spending puts US in the top 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: ten percent of developed countries, but what we're getting for 6 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: that puts US in the bottom ten percent. Now. Jeff 7 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: Cooper is the Chief executive of the Commission. 8 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 2: High Jeff, hi, hether, how are you doing good? 9 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: Thank you very much? Why we're not getting banged for buck? 10 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 2: Look, I think this is a number. There's a number 11 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: of things behind this, but ultimately that we're probably we're 12 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: not optimizing what we've got. We're trying to spend out 13 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: of our way out of some big problems, and we 14 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 2: can do better, particularly when it comes to thinking about 15 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 2: how we optimize the maintenance and asset management of the 16 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: services around us. 17 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: And what are we not doing right with our project planning. 18 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: I think with project planning, like I think sometimes it's 19 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: that where we're probably going faster than we need to. Oftentimes, 20 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: I think we need to get consensus on exactly what 21 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: the problem is before we jump to what exactly the 22 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 2: solutions are you know the solution that the example I've 23 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 2: been using on this is that you know, folks in 24 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: Awk cond for instance, of spending you know, five days 25 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: every year sitting in traffic. But we know we can't 26 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: build our way out of these problems. It's too expensive 27 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: and it takes too long, and so thinking about how 28 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: we can make better use of the existing network, put 29 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: people in places where they don't need to drive, or 30 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 2: in fact, thinking about time of use charging that shifts 31 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: that that peak. Right. 32 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: The good news is that we are spending enough every year, 33 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: aren't we to try to catch up here? 34 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 2: That's a really important part in this plan. I think, 35 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: you know, for a long time we've been told that 36 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 2: we can't fund our way out of this, but we 37 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: spend a lot on infrastructure, and actually it does put 38 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: us right at the top of the league tables in 39 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: the OECD. This is a question about how to get 40 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 2: better bank buck. 41 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: Look is there are we are we getting ripped off 42 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: by construction companies? Is that part of it? 43 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: I don't know. I would I would go back to 44 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: asking the question about value for money and the projects 45 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 2: that we're that we're thinking about and the problems that 46 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: we're trying to try to solve, right. I mean, one 47 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 2: of the big plays or big points that we're making 48 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,399 Speaker 2: in the plan is that New Zealand's demographics are changing tremendously. 49 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: We have an aging population, and yet our spend on 50 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: hospitals has been dead flat for the last fifteen years. 51 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: So it's about the problems we're trying to solve. 52 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: Okay, So why is it that it costs so much 53 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: in this country to build a road, build a hospital, 54 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: build anything. 55 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 2: I think there are some things that are out of 56 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: our control. Right. We are the same size as great 57 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: as Sydney, but we are spread over a land mass 58 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: which is twenty one times larger. So many of the 59 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: many of these things. We are on a difficult piece 60 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 2: of geography at the bottom of the South Pacific with 61 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 2: actually a very small population, right, and that that obviously 62 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 2: creates funding challenges. But other times the problems are ones 63 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 2: that we create for ourselves. We have enormous complexity, for instance, 64 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 2: in something like our zoning ordinances, where we have, you know, 65 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: oney one hundred of them across the country and you 66 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: know Japan has thirteen, So we can we should be 67 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 2: thinking about ways to streamline this so that we can 68 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: deliver more effectively for everyday New Zealand. 69 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so what are the seventeen project recommended Rather, let 70 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 1: me ask it like this, of your seventeen recommended projects, 71 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: what three do you think are the most important. 72 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, the first one is setting out a path 73 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: of funding for infrastructure that we can fund. We spend 74 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: a lot of time talking about what it is hard 75 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 2: to do and what can't be done with small populations. 76 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: What we're setting out in the draft Infrastructure Plan is 77 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: what we think can be achieved, so that that's point one. 78 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: The second is a set of recommendations about making it 79 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: easier and more cost effective to build. We think we 80 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 2: need to clear the wave for infrastructure to improve social 81 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: and environmental outcomes and of course improve productivity. And the 82 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: third one is thinking a lot more deeply about how 83 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 2: we are going about maintaining our existing asset base. What 84 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: we're finding is our assets are in bad shape and 85 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: what we're doing is we're running them down to the 86 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: point that these assets end up with massive cathex programs 87 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: at the end of it, and that means we don't 88 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: have much money for everything else. So the plan is 89 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: really trying to show how we can lift our performance 90 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: and go back to actually in the nineteen nineties when 91 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 2: New Zealand was regarded as a center of excellence for 92 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: looking after the assets it has. 93 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: Great stuff, Jeff, Thanks so much appreciated. Jeff Cooper, Chief 94 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: Executive Infrastructure Commission. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, 95 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, 96 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.