1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: Brian Bridge twenty three away from six speaking of are 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: the principles routing the system? 3 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 2: Here? 4 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: We looks like we've been taking for a bit of 5 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: a ride, doesn't it. 6 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 2: So. 7 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: The Auditor General has released its annual report on questionable 8 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: spending by schools, and there are some doozies. Sutton Park 9 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: School eleven grand on a staff planning meeting at Sky City. 10 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: There was a there was a kitter to Kitta Copapa, 11 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: Maldi or Mangati twenty two grand on a boat cruise. 12 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: There was another kitter spent six grand on a trip 13 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: to Turkey for the principal with quote no clear business purpose. 14 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: The Ministry of Education says that there are twenty four 15 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: hundred schools audited. Only a handful were commented on by 16 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: the Auditor General. Erica Stamford is the Minister for Education 17 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: and joins been now High Minister. Hello, how are you 18 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: very good? Thank you? These are roughts, aren't they. 19 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: Well? Look, it was a fund set up by the 20 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: previous government. You know, it was vague, it wasn't particularly 21 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 2: for purpose, It didn't have good guard rails to prevent 22 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 2: exactly what's happened, and we ended up where we ended up. 23 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: This isn't. This isn't the type of thing this government 24 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: does these days. 25 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: Is this the well Being and Professional Development Fund you're 26 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: talking about. 27 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the well Being Fund. It just didn't have 28 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 2: any really good guardrails about how we expected the money 29 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 2: to be spent on what we expected the outcomes to be. 30 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: And we've shifted very much in education now to outcomes 31 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 2: framework contracting. So hey, look what is the thing designed 32 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: for and what are we purchasing and what do we 33 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: expect from it? And that's what's going to raise achievement 34 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 2: and get all the things done in education we need. 35 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 1: Would tourist attractions in Queenstown qualifying. 36 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: For a well being fund? 37 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: Yes? 38 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 2: Look, probably not. Can I just also I should say 39 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: that you know, ninety nine percent of principles actually used 40 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: the fund correctly. It's always you know that there was 41 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: a few, and it was boards that signed this out, 42 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 2: you know, that misused the money, and it wasn't for 43 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: the intention of the money. So I don't want to 44 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: malign the end higher sector. It wasn't the case at all. 45 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: It was always the case that it's just a few. 46 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 2: But you can avoid this if you have good outcomes 47 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: for the money. That you are investing. And that's what 48 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: we do. Now. This is not the kind of thing 49 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: that our government would ever do. 50 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: Okay, but what's the fund? So the fund still exists, 51 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: a well being fund. What's it worth? What's the total cost? 52 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 2: No, well it doesn't. It's done. It was a previous 53 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: government's initiative and it's now finished. Party is over. It 54 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: was set up I think in the midst of COVID. 55 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 2: It was typical of the COVID era spending of the 56 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 2: previous government. Right, oh, throw some money out the door. 57 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: We don't worry about what the outcomes or what the 58 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 2: purpose is. We just throw some money out. And that's 59 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 2: why we've ended up with this huge debt. And this 60 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: is just a very small example of a much bigger 61 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 2: previous government problem. But it's finished now and we are 62 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: now putting our funds into far more dedicated, outcomes focused areas. 63 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: What about the Auditor General's report identify some schools like 64 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: Takutak Papa Mardi or Mondaday and to Farakuda Manyadawa. This 65 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: is the twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two d twenty 66 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: twenty three audits. School board provided so little financial information 67 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: auditors could not give an opinion on their accounts. What 68 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: happens to that school? 69 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: Well, the Ministry of Education will follow up, it's the 70 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: first thing. I've also just commissioned a letter this morning 71 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: to boards of trustees, because you've got to remember that 72 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: boards are the ones that sign a lot of us 73 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: out and are accountable for this. And so I'll be 74 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: writing to that or I am writing to the Boards 75 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: of Trustees Association to say what advice are you giving 76 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: two boards that we end up with this kind of 77 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: behavior as well. So we've just got to tighten this 78 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: crews in a few different places. But the Ministry will 79 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: be following up, as they always do every year with 80 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: these schools who are not doing what they're supposed to. 81 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: But what happens if they follow up and this happens again, 82 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: this is three years on the trot. 83 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: Well, there are graduated interventions that the Ministry of Education 84 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: can undertake when we find that there is financial mismanagement. 85 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: We can put commissioners in and all sorts, so we 86 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: can desig boards. But we always start with a hey, 87 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: what's gone wrong in an education approach and then follow 88 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: up with a graduated set of sanctions. But where there 89 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: is serious financial mismanagement. I mean we can dissolve the 90 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: board of trustees. 91 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: All right, good to know, Minister. Appreciate your time. Education Minister, 92 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: Erica Stamford. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen 93 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: live to news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, 94 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.