1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,000 Speaker 1: It's a new insight into our crime story. Later at 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: data shows jail sentences at record highs. We've got seventy 3 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: four hundred and fifteen people sentenced to prison in the 4 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: year to June, which is up fourteen percent. Robbery led 5 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: the way imprisonment rate there of sixty one percent. Meanwhile, 6 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: cannabis and meth position charges their back at twenty nineteen levels. 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: Steve Cullen, criminal lawyer, back with us. Steve, morning to you, 8 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: good body. So we're either committing a great deal more 9 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: crime or the guidance from the government to put them 10 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: in jail as working. Is it the latter, Well, we. 11 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: Could speak a lad it's ladder that could be contributing 12 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: to it. But I'll tell you one thing that struck me, Mike. 13 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 2: I've been talking to one of your reporters, Jordan Done. 14 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 2: There's been a more than doubling of people violating their 15 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 2: em bail, and of course the judge's view will be 16 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: if you violate your bail, violate electronically monitored bail, then 17 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 2: you're not going to be set up for an electronically 18 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: monitored sentence. So people have been writing their own prescription 19 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 2: to go to prison. That could be contributing to it 20 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: as well. 21 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: Indeed, what about the gang population? Is it full of gangs? 22 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: We had some gang stats the other day, I mean 23 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: huge numbers of people gang. So we're just essentially we're 24 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: locking up more people more often, aren't we? 25 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 2: As we are? And it seems to people we're locking 26 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 2: up are the ones that need to be locked up? 27 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: The discounting part, are you seeing any change in that? 28 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: In other words, with the law suggesting you can't discount 29 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: as much, would that lead to more people going behind bars? 30 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: Well, it has had an effect, undoubtedly, because we've got 31 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: mandatory reductions and the discounts available, judges aren't able to 32 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 2: perhaps be as benevolent the people as they want to be, 33 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: So yes, that is having an impact as well. 34 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: Overall, fifteen percent get a prison sentence, which strikes me. 35 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: We have a tremendous number of people who commit crime. 36 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:45,559 Speaker 1: It's eighty five percent of people don't go to jail, 37 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 1: so hell of a lot of crime. Is there something 38 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: wrong with us? 39 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: Well, it can be due to a wave of young 40 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: people coming through. It can also be due to social media. 41 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: It could be due to gang influences and drug influencers. 42 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 2: We'd need some sort of information about what's causing it. 43 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: But it's really worrying when you see such a large 44 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: proportion of people involved in a legal activity. 45 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to need to build more prisons, aren't we. 46 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: If we keep putting fourteen percent more in jail each year, 47 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: we're going to be full before we know it. 48 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: That's right. I see one of the countries I'm sure 49 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: is now building a prison that's a floating island so 50 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: that people can't jump over the side and from back 51 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 2: to shore. Goodness knows. I hope we don't get to that. 52 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: No, but we've got the politics versus the rehab story, 53 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: haven't we. The politics of this probably plays well to 54 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: Middle New Zealand, doesn't it. I mean, there is a 55 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: sense that people want people put in jail for crime 56 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: that we don't want to deal with. 57 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 2: With our aging population, everybody gets fearful. They want everybody 58 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: locked up to keep them away so they all feel safe. 59 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so appreciate it. Steve Callen, criminal lawyer, 60 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: with us this morning. 61 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 62 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 63 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.