1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Ized when it took office. Governing's about choices. Governing is 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: about choices, and in the eyes of those in the 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Lower South, this choice will not be forgotten or forgiven 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: any time soon. Nine two ninety two is the text 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: number if you want to flick me a note. This afternoon, 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: Jacket Newstalk saidb dot co dot nz is the email address. Yes, 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: the focus continues to be on the future of small 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: town New Zealand regional New Zealand, with a leading academic 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: adding to the conversation this morning saying that quote, tough 10 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: conversations are needed. So we've seen Windstone Pulp close in 11 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: the u a Pehu district. We've now got Alliance proposing 12 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: to shut its meat works in Timurdo. That alone is 13 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: hundreds of jobs gone, potentially hundreds of people flying off 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: to Australia. Senior Lecturer of geography at Otago University, doctor 15 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: Sean Connolly says the towns can be built back up 16 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 1: if they're prepared to adapt to a new reality. So 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: is there anything the government can do to help with 18 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: the Shane Jones, as the Minister for Regional Development guild. 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: Up Greetings, folks, are you worried. 20 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: That we are going to lose some of our small towns. 21 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: Well, we're going through a major structural adjustment, whether we 22 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 2: like it or not here in our economy. It's not 23 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: just to do it COVID, but land use changes are 24 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: taking place. Energy prices largely driven by the need to 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 2: achieve certain climate goals, sadly driving industry, if not to 26 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 2: a smaller size, potentially out of New Zealand. And I 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: don't like it. 28 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: We're so hang on. You think that the decline of 29 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: regional populations is all down to the response to climate. 30 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: Change, Well, if we're not going to maintain access to 31 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: gas and coal during a managed transition, and we're going 32 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: to continually make it more difficult through regulations for farmers 33 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: to sustain production, we are going to see a contraction 34 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: of the economy around some of our small towns. 35 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: We've been experiencing a contraction in those populations for decades though, 36 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: haven't we. 37 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 2: Well, what keeps those populations going though, is the local economy. 38 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: And one thing that we've been really good at in 39 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 2: New Zealand, or certainly in my lifetime anyhow, has been 40 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 2: the production of food. Like I just had the people 41 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: from the vegetable growers in my office last week. They 42 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 2: find that the regulations pertaining to their water utilization, the 43 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 2: application of fertilizer has become so restrictive that they fear 44 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 2: that we're going to go towards importing more food rather 45 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: than growing it ourselves. So it's time for a reset. 46 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: So what else can the government do from a policy 47 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: perspective to keep those small towns thriving. 48 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: Oh, I think they've I personally, I think I've delivered 49 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: because a lot of those small towns you're refering too 50 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 2: silly on the coast, they depend on aguaculture. And when 51 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: we take a pragmatic view about regulation, For example, I 52 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: extended all the marine farming purmoits through to twenty fifty. 53 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: That leaves more money in the business people have the 54 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: confidence to a vest and that's a growth industry for 55 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: New Zealand, and it is going to sustain a lot 56 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: of small towns that have been yeah in Strugglers Gully. 57 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: Well, what other from a migration perspective, are there immigration 58 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: settings that you could tinker with that might help to 59 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: support regional New Zealand. 60 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know how many of the workers associated 61 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 2: with Alliance Networks. We're kiwis and how many were say, 62 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 2: not RC workers, but migrant labor. There is a need 63 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: in some cases for migrant labor. But my main point 64 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: is land use change is taking place. There is a 65 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 2: situation where a lot of dairy dislocated sheep farmers, some 66 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: forestry dislocated sheep farmers. But these are the owners of 67 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: land and property making decisions that they feel are in 68 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: the best interests of them and their families, and that's 69 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: having an impact on local industry. Okay, so what do 70 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: we do. Do we go through to a central planning 71 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 2: model or do we give more power to local government 72 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: to stop land use changes. One of the great gems 73 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: of genius in our system in New Zealand is that 74 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: you've been able to change the way in which you 75 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 2: use land to chase outcome that generate the best economic return. 76 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm not sure if you saw at the weekend 77 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: they had a couple of massive public meetings around one 78 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: or two and Quafina regarding the prospect of road tolling. 79 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: What is your response to that? 80 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I got questioned on that during my using at Bulls. 81 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: All I'd say to your listeners is that I come 82 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 2: from Thai Torcido and every time we even Apolies, every 83 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 2: time we drive north, we pay a toll, and we've 84 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: been doing that for a long time. A toll was 85 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: never imposed on the Golden Highway and the Golden Triangle 86 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: when Stephen Joyce upgraded the roads in and around Hamilton 87 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: down towards Cambridge, and perhaps an opportunity was missed there. 88 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: But you know, I'd call for a bit of FeNiS here. 89 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: Obviously any toll has to be informed by equity, but 90 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: I'd remind the people of Munoa two, those of us 91 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 2: who live in Taytalkado in the North, we already pay 92 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: a toll every time we leave Auckland. 93 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: And finally I saw you got into a bit of 94 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: a scrap this afternoon. Wow, not really a scrap, but 95 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: a bit of a barney on lambdon Key with some 96 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: climate protests. What happened? 97 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: Oh, look, I went down to get a haircut. They 98 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: were originally they were originally in front of Parliament and 99 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: I missed them, so I was going down for a haircut. 100 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 1: So you ended up giving one instead. 101 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: Well, they were pretty keen to figuratively sculpt me. But 102 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: that was a bit of war of words, but nothing 103 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: nothing too damaging, but hey, you know, I'm a rhetorician, 104 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: so I should expect a bit of the return fire 105 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: from time to time. 106 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: Fair enough, Thank you very much of your time. We 107 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: appreciate it. That is Shane Jones. 108 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 109 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,679 Speaker 2: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 110 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.