1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Another report, unto the idea of congestion charging. This one 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:04,559 Speaker 1: was commissioned by the Auckland Mayor, comes up with a 3 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: figure of two point six billion by why of waste 4 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: and lost productivity everyone on Auckland apparently why it's about 5 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: seventeen hours a year in traffic. Senior lecturer in Architecture 6 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: and town Planning at the University of Auckland Timothy Welsh's, Well, 7 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: there's Timothy, morning. 8 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 2: To you morning, thanks for having you. 9 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: Can I argue all you want, but I always find 10 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: these numbers spurious. Two point six billion. How do you 11 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: drum up these numbers with any level of accuracy? 12 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 2: Well, we can just look at the amount of time 13 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 2: people spend in traffic. We can compare that to the 14 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 2: amount they make per hour, and that's a pretty good 15 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 2: starting point. And we can also figure out things like 16 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 2: how many full time jobs are lost because of the 17 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: city and in congestion, which is around twelve hundred full 18 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 2: time job. The amount of extra fuel you pay one 19 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty million dollars per year. 20 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: So that all is numbers and you come up with 21 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: them and you accept them, is two point six billion 22 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: bad and seventeen hours I mean compared with international cities 23 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: where there's congestion as well, well. 24 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: It certainly not great. I mean that's a lot of 25 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: lost money and revenue, lot of lost time. So I mean, 26 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: if you're looking at it, it's about sixty six hours 27 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: per person per year. So if you think what you 28 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: could do with that amount of time, it's certainly bad 29 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 2: and it's not good compared to most cities across the world. 30 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: Can you then extrapo light if you accept those numbers 31 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: and say I'll charge you two dollars fifty to drive 32 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: down that street and pick time, what does that do 33 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: and how do you know? 34 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 2: Well, we can easily model kind of the demand for 35 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 2: the travel, and that's what we do already when we 36 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 2: think about building new roads or expanding lanes, we model 37 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 2: how many people will take that route, and then we 38 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: can kind of extrapolate the revenue from there, and those 39 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: numbers come out pretty big as well. And we've seen 40 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: this happen in places like New York and London, where 41 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: congestion falls rapidly but revenue increases significantly. 42 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: When you sign New York, New York was only just started. 43 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: Do we already know what's happened in New York. 44 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great. In just two months since they started, 45 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: we've already seen massive reductions in congestion. CBDs has more space, 46 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 2: buses to go quickly for people to walk, Revenue is up, 47 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 2: so all sorts of benefits. 48 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: When you say to a CBD, what do you mean 49 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: the CBD in New York's massive? 50 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's right. But when we're talking about the 51 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 2: most dense center of Manhattan, so. 52 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: You're telling me I can go down sixth Avenue now 53 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: we'll free you, then I could previously. 54 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 2: Yes, it's if you could believe it. People are plotting. 55 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: It's been a long time coming, a lot of political pushback. 56 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: Once it was implemented, traffic really started to decrease from 57 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 2: day one. 58 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: Okay, would you also argue London's success because I've been 59 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: there and I don't see it as a success, and 60 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: they keep putting the price up, and that's what worries me. 61 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: Once you start charging a dollar, then it's a dollar fifty, 62 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: then it's two dollars, and the only people who buire 63 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: the people with money. 64 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. The trick with that is that we 65 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: don't know what it would have looked like without the 66 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 2: congestion charge, So London would just be a total quagmire 67 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 2: if we looked at traffic without that congestion charge. Of 68 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: course it's expanded and increased with inflation as things do, 69 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: but it's been a huge there as well. We saw 70 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 2: within the first year in Lon did a thirty percent 71 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: increase in public transport use and a thirty percent decrease 72 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: in traffic congestion just from a year wine and this 73 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 2: has been going since two thousand and eight. 74 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: All Right, good insight, Timothy, appreciate you time. Timothy Welch 75 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: is not new, of course, these reports they come dime 76 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: a dozen. It depends on the way and actually does 77 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: something about it in Auckland. If you don't live in Auckland, 78 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 1: and be grateful that you don't have to deal with 79 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: this sort of nonsense. 80 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 81 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 82 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.