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Speaker 1: I've seeker benefit numbers are out, So the benefit numbers

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Speaker 1: are going up, we're getting more beneficiaries. But MAST figures

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Speaker 1: show that eighty thousand beneficiaries have found new work, yet

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Speaker 1: the number of people that the main benefit has risen

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Speaker 1: six point six percent. Is there a disconnect there? What's

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Speaker 1: that about? It currently means there's over four hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: people in New Zealand on a main benefit. Twelve percent

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Speaker 1: of the working age population is paid by the state.

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Speaker 1: Pill O'Reilly as a former member of the Welfare Expert

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Speaker 1: Advisory Group and joins me, Now, good boarding to your

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Speaker 1: feel good morning. What's happening here?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a bit like you're emptying your bath and

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Speaker 2: there's war coming up to bath that someone's pouring a

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Speaker 2: big bucket at the front end, so the bath keeps

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Speaker 2: on rising even though some water's going at the back end.

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Speaker 2: So what's happening is that eighty thousand people have found work,

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Speaker 2: but more than that have come through the other end

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Speaker 2: to apply for unemployment benefits. And if you look at

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Speaker 2: the numbers, as usual, you see young people over represented.

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Speaker 2: They're aiding to twenty four year olds. That's the same

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Speaker 2: in New zealand everywhere else in the world world. As

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Speaker 2: you get these unemployment events, those who've got no experience,

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Speaker 2: of course, of our little experience are the most impacted

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Speaker 2: because you know, why would you hire them if you

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Speaker 2: could hire an experienced person in this labor market. So

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Speaker 2: that's really what's going on. And the government's arguing that

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Speaker 2: their sanctions regime has meant that if they hadn't been there,

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Speaker 2: more people would have been on the dole or on

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Speaker 2: these benefits than otherwise would be the case. And I

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Speaker 2: kind of buy that in the circumstance, so that they're

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Speaker 2: probably doing much the right thing in the sense of

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Speaker 2: trying to get more people back into work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but to get people back into work, you don't

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Speaker 1: need sanctions. You need jobs. And to get joy to

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Speaker 1: get jobs, you need a good economy. And do we

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Speaker 1: have a good economy right now.

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Speaker 2: Well no. In fact, one of the reasons why those

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Speaker 2: numbers are leaking up is because the tough times have

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Speaker 2: gone for so long. Employers would tend to try to

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Speaker 2: hold onto people for a whole bunch of good reasons,

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Speaker 2: including the cost of replacing them when the time comes,

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Speaker 2: and the fact that these numbers are increasing suggest that

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Speaker 2: employers are just finding it too tough to do that

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Speaker 2: and are letting people go. And that's they wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: been doing that if the economy had turned around sooner.

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Speaker 2: So really this is a question about the government getting

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Speaker 2: on and reinvigorating growth through kind of some public spending,

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Speaker 2: for example, some new roads and so on, trying to

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Speaker 2: reinvigorate the construction sector. Seventeen hoursand jobs lost out of

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Speaker 2: the construction sector in the last eighty months, and really

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Speaker 2: working with business to make sure that happens faster rather

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Speaker 2: than slower.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I saw that the government just summarily stop two

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Speaker 1: hundred and twelve paying or A building projects which was

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Speaker 1: going to create what it was about two and a

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Speaker 1: half thousand houses. And guess who makes the houses. That's

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Speaker 1: builders and the construction industry. And so there are no jobs.

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Speaker 1: And I've always said if the government doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: invest in New Zealand, why should anybody overseas do it?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right. There's been a lot of promises made

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Speaker 2: to the construction sector, not just the housing sector, but

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Speaker 2: also the roading sector and infrastructure sector to say these

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Speaker 2: things are coming, but the complaints out of the sector

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Speaker 2: are that they've taken a long time and goodwill. That's fantastic,

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Speaker 2: but let's get on. Some of them are starting to

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Speaker 2: unwind now, but of course they don't have a job's

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Speaker 2: impactful a little while. Even if you're about to start

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Speaker 2: a road, we have to start a housing project, the

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Speaker 2: jobs aren't there yet, which all demonstrates that we're going

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Speaker 2: to see a recovery, hopefully later this year, maybe early

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Speaker 2: next year, but it's a long time between drinks for

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Speaker 2: employers and of course those who are sitting on that

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Speaker 2: unemployment benefit.

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Speaker 1: So thank you. You've been brilliant. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: very awakened, very alert, and very lucid, and I love it.

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Speaker 2: For more from early edition with Ryan Bridge. Listen live

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Speaker 2: to News Talks it be from five am weekdays, or

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