1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News talks 'b follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,692 --> 00:00:19,772 Speaker 2: We have been discussing the situation in Iran. Uprisings and 4 00:00:19,813 --> 00:00:23,373 Speaker 2: protests against the regime has led to another violent crackdown. 5 00:00:23,653 --> 00:00:27,493 Speaker 2: Some estimates say thirty six thousand Iranians have been killed. 6 00:00:27,773 --> 00:00:30,613 Speaker 2: Joining us now is doctor Fera Armen, founder of the 7 00:00:30,613 --> 00:00:34,533 Speaker 2: Iranians Women's Council and a leading advocate for women's rights 8 00:00:34,533 --> 00:00:37,493 Speaker 2: in around Doctor Amen, Good afternoon. 9 00:00:37,732 --> 00:00:38,373 Speaker 3: Good Afino. 10 00:00:38,933 --> 00:00:40,933 Speaker 2: First up, can you give us a quick overview on 11 00:00:41,013 --> 00:00:44,053 Speaker 2: the events which has led to the current protests happening 12 00:00:44,132 --> 00:00:44,533 Speaker 2: right now? 13 00:00:45,653 --> 00:00:48,852 Speaker 3: Oh? Sure? So, you know, as in many ways what 14 00:00:49,053 --> 00:00:54,773 Speaker 3: happened in Iran in early January was entirely predictable for decades. 15 00:00:54,813 --> 00:00:58,533 Speaker 3: You know, the country has been trapped in deep corruption, 16 00:00:58,693 --> 00:01:02,733 Speaker 3: systemic mismanagement and concentration of power, you know, in hands 17 00:01:02,773 --> 00:01:08,212 Speaker 3: of unaccountable institutions, and the situation has become worsterned and worsterned. 18 00:01:08,493 --> 00:01:12,853 Speaker 3: Or the rampant inflation, as you said, currently collapsed unemployment. 19 00:01:12,973 --> 00:01:16,372 Speaker 3: It has pushed around seventy percent of the people below 20 00:01:16,413 --> 00:01:20,292 Speaker 3: the papatry line. So it was in late twenty twenty five, 21 00:01:20,453 --> 00:01:24,173 Speaker 3: late December and early jet that merchants from Bazzar of 22 00:01:24,253 --> 00:01:27,053 Speaker 3: Tehran they decided to close their shops and come to 23 00:01:27,133 --> 00:01:30,652 Speaker 3: the street to protest, and then people joined them. And 24 00:01:30,733 --> 00:01:34,053 Speaker 3: after that we had the Crown Prince of Iran, Razza Paladi, 25 00:01:34,093 --> 00:01:36,333 Speaker 3: who is the son of the late Shah of Iran. 26 00:01:36,853 --> 00:01:39,413 Speaker 3: They gave a call to people for eight and ninth 27 00:01:39,493 --> 00:01:42,693 Speaker 3: January to go to the street and to support the merchants. 28 00:01:43,413 --> 00:01:47,333 Speaker 3: People responded, so it was unprecedented in a sense that 29 00:01:47,573 --> 00:01:50,373 Speaker 3: millions of people went to the street from the smallest 30 00:01:50,413 --> 00:01:53,853 Speaker 3: town to largest city. They were chanting his name and 31 00:01:53,973 --> 00:01:56,813 Speaker 3: they were calling for his return to the country. And 32 00:01:56,893 --> 00:01:59,573 Speaker 3: this was the biggest nightmare for the regame. We know 33 00:01:59,653 --> 00:02:02,413 Speaker 3: that in the eyes of this regime, the Crown Prince 34 00:02:02,573 --> 00:02:05,893 Speaker 3: is the biggest thread, and that's why they decided to 35 00:02:05,973 --> 00:02:09,013 Speaker 3: do whatever they could to crush the fourth They even 36 00:02:09,093 --> 00:02:13,053 Speaker 3: brought the militia from rat to help them, and they 37 00:02:13,173 --> 00:02:15,852 Speaker 3: just gave the order to their security forces to go 38 00:02:16,013 --> 00:02:19,773 Speaker 3: and fill every protester one by one. 39 00:02:20,573 --> 00:02:23,853 Speaker 4: Paint the picture of what everyday life is like for 40 00:02:24,133 --> 00:02:27,413 Speaker 4: everyday Iranians under the rain Gam and more specifically, what 41 00:02:27,453 --> 00:02:29,733 Speaker 4: the situation is for woman and Iran. 42 00:02:31,133 --> 00:02:33,933 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, the life in Iran living under 43 00:02:33,972 --> 00:02:37,693 Speaker 3: a theocracy that controls every aspect of life, you know, 44 00:02:37,893 --> 00:02:40,973 Speaker 3: from your you know, personal life, what you were, what 45 00:02:41,053 --> 00:02:43,613 Speaker 3: you listen to do, what you do, you know, not 46 00:02:43,853 --> 00:02:46,053 Speaker 3: just in the street, but even in your own you know, 47 00:02:46,173 --> 00:02:50,373 Speaker 3: personal life. So it's always been very hard for people, 48 00:02:50,413 --> 00:02:53,732 Speaker 3: and people have been trying, you know, just to resist 49 00:02:53,893 --> 00:02:57,013 Speaker 3: against it. But currently I would like to talk about 50 00:02:57,053 --> 00:03:00,213 Speaker 3: how the life is right now after this massacre that 51 00:03:00,293 --> 00:03:04,173 Speaker 3: the regime carried out against its own people. So recently, 52 00:03:04,252 --> 00:03:07,373 Speaker 3: I was just seeing a post an ex we're one 53 00:03:07,413 --> 00:03:09,813 Speaker 3: of the Uranians in the asked for our asking people 54 00:03:09,853 --> 00:03:13,733 Speaker 3: inside the one to describe how life feels right now, 55 00:03:14,252 --> 00:03:17,253 Speaker 3: and I could see hundreds of responses and all of 56 00:03:17,293 --> 00:03:20,333 Speaker 3: them had something, you know, similar. So they were saying 57 00:03:20,373 --> 00:03:25,973 Speaker 3: that everyday life continues on the surface, but emotionally is heavy, 58 00:03:26,013 --> 00:03:28,853 Speaker 3: it is deeply fractured. They were saying, we go to world, 59 00:03:28,972 --> 00:03:31,972 Speaker 3: we take our children to school. You know, life hasn't 60 00:03:31,972 --> 00:03:34,733 Speaker 3: to stop, but it has changed. So you cannot find 61 00:03:34,933 --> 00:03:37,973 Speaker 3: anyone who doesn't know someone who has been killed, or 62 00:03:38,013 --> 00:03:42,213 Speaker 3: has been arrested or injured. They were saying if we laugh, 63 00:03:42,373 --> 00:03:46,173 Speaker 3: we feel guilty. If we hear music, it turns into tears, so, 64 00:03:47,053 --> 00:03:49,893 Speaker 3: you know, and what we hear from our family and 65 00:03:50,053 --> 00:03:52,973 Speaker 3: friends directly does the same thing to us. So people 66 00:03:53,013 --> 00:03:55,693 Speaker 3: are in short and it's not just because of the 67 00:03:55,773 --> 00:03:59,453 Speaker 3: scale of violence, but the sense of isolation that came 68 00:03:59,533 --> 00:04:03,213 Speaker 3: after that. Uranians in Iran right now feel like the 69 00:04:03,293 --> 00:04:06,693 Speaker 3: world has turned away from them or even has strayed them. 70 00:04:06,733 --> 00:04:09,933 Speaker 3: We all heard, you know what. For example, President Trump 71 00:04:10,053 --> 00:04:14,373 Speaker 3: was telling people, you know, the health is underway, and 72 00:04:14,413 --> 00:04:17,253 Speaker 3: now he's sitting at the negotiation table with the same 73 00:04:17,333 --> 00:04:20,733 Speaker 3: murderous regime that killed you know, its own people. So 74 00:04:20,773 --> 00:04:23,173 Speaker 3: it seems like the only hope that people have in 75 00:04:23,213 --> 00:04:26,293 Speaker 3: Iran now is that we in diaspora, the eight million 76 00:04:26,333 --> 00:04:30,133 Speaker 3: Iranians living around the world, that we might be their voice. 77 00:04:30,573 --> 00:04:33,892 Speaker 2: You mentioned your family and friends over there, and as 78 00:04:33,973 --> 00:04:38,293 Speaker 2: we've been told, the information blackout within the country is 79 00:04:38,413 --> 00:04:42,253 Speaker 2: quite severe. Is it difficult for your family and friends 80 00:04:42,333 --> 00:04:45,773 Speaker 2: to contact you, to get information to understand what the 81 00:04:45,853 --> 00:04:47,213 Speaker 2: response has been internationally? 82 00:04:47,893 --> 00:04:50,453 Speaker 3: For the first two weeks after the massacre of eight 83 00:04:50,533 --> 00:04:54,333 Speaker 3: and nine January, there was total blackout. No message could 84 00:04:54,413 --> 00:04:57,013 Speaker 3: go and come back, not not just through social media. 85 00:04:57,093 --> 00:05:01,253 Speaker 3: Even you know, the direct landline were stopped. You know, 86 00:05:01,253 --> 00:05:04,013 Speaker 3: we're controlled by the regime, so we had no meals 87 00:05:04,093 --> 00:05:06,853 Speaker 3: and it was it was extremely difficult those two weeks 88 00:05:06,893 --> 00:05:10,733 Speaker 3: for us. After that, landlines where we're okay and people 89 00:05:10,813 --> 00:05:13,693 Speaker 3: have been able to send some messages by use WITHPAN. 90 00:05:14,133 --> 00:05:16,333 Speaker 3: So for me, for example, it's just like I spend 91 00:05:16,333 --> 00:05:18,373 Speaker 3: one message on what's up to my mom? It takes 92 00:05:18,373 --> 00:05:21,173 Speaker 3: one week for her to receive it, and since you 93 00:05:21,333 --> 00:05:24,093 Speaker 3: respond and again takes another week. So it's just been 94 00:05:24,213 --> 00:05:27,133 Speaker 3: few text messages in the last month, you know, and 95 00:05:27,173 --> 00:05:30,773 Speaker 3: it's like then people don't feel, you know, like safe 96 00:05:30,853 --> 00:05:33,773 Speaker 3: to talk on their phone or text messages. If you 97 00:05:33,813 --> 00:05:36,133 Speaker 3: ask them what happened, how are you, they just say 98 00:05:36,173 --> 00:05:39,053 Speaker 3: everything is good. It's a snowing now or it's raining, 99 00:05:39,173 --> 00:05:42,253 Speaker 3: you know, So it feels like they cannot even you know, 100 00:05:42,413 --> 00:05:43,893 Speaker 3: discuss things on the phone. 101 00:05:44,333 --> 00:05:48,013 Speaker 4: We're speaking to doctor fro Aman, founder of the Iranian 102 00:05:48,013 --> 00:05:53,853 Speaker 4: Woman in New Zealand. What exactly do the protesters want? 103 00:05:53,973 --> 00:05:58,253 Speaker 4: What would be the ultimate outcome if they get their way? 104 00:05:58,413 --> 00:06:01,733 Speaker 3: Yes, thank you for this question. So one big turning 105 00:06:01,773 --> 00:06:05,333 Speaker 3: point for this round of uprising in Iran that we 106 00:06:05,413 --> 00:06:08,293 Speaker 3: call it revolution at the moment is that, you know, 107 00:06:08,613 --> 00:06:11,253 Speaker 3: it wasn't like the previous rounds that people were just 108 00:06:11,293 --> 00:06:13,933 Speaker 3: saying we don't want this regime. This regime must go. 109 00:06:14,133 --> 00:06:17,493 Speaker 3: Now we are talking about the alternative. So that was 110 00:06:17,533 --> 00:06:20,133 Speaker 3: a huge turning point, you know, for the whole country. 111 00:06:20,413 --> 00:06:23,973 Speaker 3: It seems that Iranians now they have you know, decided 112 00:06:24,053 --> 00:06:27,213 Speaker 3: on having an alternative, and their alternative seems to be 113 00:06:27,293 --> 00:06:30,213 Speaker 3: the cown prince Ress of Ality. So it's like all 114 00:06:30,213 --> 00:06:33,133 Speaker 3: of us now are rallying around this person as the 115 00:06:33,213 --> 00:06:37,053 Speaker 3: leader of the opposition, leader for the transition government, and 116 00:06:37,133 --> 00:06:40,293 Speaker 3: he has this plan for the first hundred hundred and 117 00:06:40,333 --> 00:06:43,533 Speaker 3: eighty days after the collapse of this regime. So he 118 00:06:43,653 --> 00:06:45,933 Speaker 3: has a team that and they are in touch with 119 00:06:46,213 --> 00:06:50,853 Speaker 3: many Iranian experts and professionals in the Aspara and inside Iran, 120 00:06:51,213 --> 00:06:55,133 Speaker 3: so preparing everything for this transition period. And I think 121 00:06:55,173 --> 00:06:58,333 Speaker 3: we are the closest in the seventy four years, you know, 122 00:06:58,493 --> 00:07:02,053 Speaker 3: to this turning point of the collapse of this regime. 123 00:07:02,973 --> 00:07:05,853 Speaker 2: We are speaking to doctor Form and founder of the 124 00:07:05,893 --> 00:07:08,253 Speaker 2: Iranians Women Council in New Zealand. 125 00:07:08,533 --> 00:07:12,453 Speaker 4: How much support, how much public support does the current 126 00:07:12,493 --> 00:07:15,253 Speaker 4: regime have inside Iran. 127 00:07:15,293 --> 00:07:18,773 Speaker 3: So you know, you cannot say any any exact number. 128 00:07:18,893 --> 00:07:22,053 Speaker 3: But if you just considered the last election, you know, 129 00:07:22,293 --> 00:07:25,093 Speaker 3: the so called election that happened in Iran. You know, 130 00:07:25,293 --> 00:07:28,933 Speaker 3: even according to their own deta, something around twenty percent 131 00:07:29,013 --> 00:07:32,893 Speaker 3: of people went for the parliamentary election. So and that's 132 00:07:32,893 --> 00:07:35,133 Speaker 3: you know, we know that they never give you the 133 00:07:35,173 --> 00:07:38,733 Speaker 3: correct number. You know, they manufacture number E genior number 134 00:07:38,813 --> 00:07:42,653 Speaker 3: for themselves. Or even just a few days ago they 135 00:07:42,693 --> 00:07:46,213 Speaker 3: had their anniversary of coming to power and all the 136 00:07:46,253 --> 00:07:49,173 Speaker 3: footages that they were sewing on the media, then it 137 00:07:49,253 --> 00:07:51,933 Speaker 3: turned out they were made by aar or they were 138 00:07:51,973 --> 00:07:54,853 Speaker 3: from the previous years. So the funny thing about the 139 00:07:55,173 --> 00:07:58,133 Speaker 3: murders regime is that they are not even smart. They 140 00:07:58,173 --> 00:08:01,493 Speaker 3: were suing some footages on TV from some of the 141 00:08:01,533 --> 00:08:05,173 Speaker 3: commanders who were killed in Iran Israel war in June 142 00:08:05,213 --> 00:08:09,213 Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, so from the previous years, they were 143 00:08:09,253 --> 00:08:12,853 Speaker 3: sewing pictures and footages. Two people. So we know that 144 00:08:13,013 --> 00:08:16,333 Speaker 3: at the moment only a very small minority. It should 145 00:08:16,333 --> 00:08:18,653 Speaker 3: be less than to any person. I think even less 146 00:08:18,653 --> 00:08:21,853 Speaker 3: than that who are directly connected to this regime and 147 00:08:21,893 --> 00:08:24,773 Speaker 3: are benefiting front region are supporting them. 148 00:08:24,893 --> 00:08:26,733 Speaker 2: So doctor amen. Do you think this could be the 149 00:08:26,853 --> 00:08:28,533 Speaker 2: end of the Islamic Republic? 150 00:08:29,533 --> 00:08:32,493 Speaker 3: Yes, definitely, and it's not you know, it's it's going 151 00:08:32,573 --> 00:08:35,973 Speaker 3: to be the end, not just if the international community 152 00:08:36,053 --> 00:08:38,973 Speaker 3: comes to support Iranians, but because of the situation on 153 00:08:39,093 --> 00:08:42,252 Speaker 3: the ground. You know, all the economic and all loss 154 00:08:42,252 --> 00:08:45,852 Speaker 3: of legitimacy will finally lead to the end of this regime. 155 00:08:45,973 --> 00:08:48,933 Speaker 3: But what we care about is how much our people 156 00:08:48,973 --> 00:08:51,333 Speaker 3: are going to pay the price for this. We don't 157 00:08:51,372 --> 00:08:54,333 Speaker 3: want more people to be killed or these thirty six 158 00:08:54,413 --> 00:08:57,453 Speaker 3: thousand people have been killed only in two days. Just 159 00:08:57,612 --> 00:09:00,613 Speaker 3: put it in the perspective, you know, and compare it 160 00:09:00,693 --> 00:09:04,372 Speaker 3: with other conflicts and wars happening right now in the world. 161 00:09:04,453 --> 00:09:08,533 Speaker 3: You know, this thirty six thousand is unprecedented and are 162 00:09:08,533 --> 00:09:10,613 Speaker 3: not casualties of war. As I said, They were not 163 00:09:10,773 --> 00:09:13,773 Speaker 3: killed by Airscotts. They were killed one by one, shot, 164 00:09:14,012 --> 00:09:16,453 Speaker 3: one by one. You know, if you compare it to 165 00:09:16,492 --> 00:09:19,612 Speaker 3: what happened in Ukraine, in Gaza, in other parts of 166 00:09:19,653 --> 00:09:22,773 Speaker 3: the world, you know, thirty six thousands in two days 167 00:09:22,973 --> 00:09:26,732 Speaker 3: is not comparable to any any other you know, crimes 168 00:09:26,732 --> 00:09:29,533 Speaker 3: against humanity that has happened, you know, around the world. 169 00:09:29,933 --> 00:09:32,293 Speaker 3: But what matters to us is that, you know, the 170 00:09:32,333 --> 00:09:36,052 Speaker 3: international community, especially after the twalk by President Trump, you know, 171 00:09:36,213 --> 00:09:38,453 Speaker 3: so we're on the way. So I think they have 172 00:09:38,612 --> 00:09:42,253 Speaker 3: this responsibility to react to what happening in Iran and 173 00:09:42,492 --> 00:09:45,493 Speaker 3: just you know, don't turn the blind riety just because 174 00:09:45,492 --> 00:09:48,373 Speaker 3: it's something that happened inside the country. We saw a 175 00:09:48,372 --> 00:09:51,133 Speaker 3: similar pattern with Student. It seems that you know, the 176 00:09:51,173 --> 00:09:54,772 Speaker 3: international media, the people around the world don't care about 177 00:09:54,813 --> 00:09:57,613 Speaker 3: things when one part of that is not you know, 178 00:09:57,813 --> 00:10:01,492 Speaker 3: West somehow, you know, what happened in Iran, what happens Student. 179 00:10:01,612 --> 00:10:04,093 Speaker 3: We don't see media covers for that, We don't see 180 00:10:04,132 --> 00:10:05,293 Speaker 3: that people care about it. 181 00:10:06,732 --> 00:10:09,372 Speaker 4: Yes, I mean, can you go further into that, because 182 00:10:09,372 --> 00:10:12,933 Speaker 4: obviously the numbers are just unfathomably grim. It's a horrible, 183 00:10:12,973 --> 00:10:15,413 Speaker 4: horrible tragedy. So just if you could go a little 184 00:10:15,413 --> 00:10:17,093 Speaker 4: bit deeper into that, why do you think it isn't 185 00:10:17,093 --> 00:10:21,213 Speaker 4: getting the media coverage and the public outrage and the 186 00:10:21,333 --> 00:10:25,813 Speaker 4: celebrity commenting commentary in Western countries like New Zealand, the 187 00:10:25,933 --> 00:10:28,533 Speaker 4: other global events of its magnitude gives. 188 00:10:28,933 --> 00:10:32,333 Speaker 3: Yeah, Actually, this lack of engagement from media, even here 189 00:10:32,372 --> 00:10:35,573 Speaker 3: in New Zealand has been very shocking and also painful 190 00:10:35,973 --> 00:10:39,412 Speaker 3: to our people. We have even been sending several opinion 191 00:10:39,492 --> 00:10:42,813 Speaker 3: pieces to media outlets and they just declined them so 192 00:10:42,933 --> 00:10:45,573 Speaker 3: something that they didn't used to do it during you know, 193 00:10:46,132 --> 00:10:50,012 Speaker 3: previous rounds of revolution uprising in Iran and you know, 194 00:10:50,533 --> 00:10:53,133 Speaker 3: the events that we had. But one possible reason for 195 00:10:53,293 --> 00:10:56,252 Speaker 3: it can be, you know, the revolution in Iran doesn't 196 00:10:56,293 --> 00:11:00,292 Speaker 3: fit neatly into the dominant global narrative. We know that 197 00:11:00,413 --> 00:11:04,453 Speaker 3: much of today's international discourse is shaped by anti imperialists, 198 00:11:04,453 --> 00:11:07,933 Speaker 3: anti colonial, anti Western frameworks. And then we have a 199 00:11:07,973 --> 00:11:13,293 Speaker 3: popular are uprising against an authoritarian theocracy that doesn't you know, 200 00:11:14,372 --> 00:11:17,612 Speaker 3: aligns meat with those lenses, and it's becoming you know, 201 00:11:17,653 --> 00:11:21,613 Speaker 3: inconvenience for people, for media to come and cover it. 202 00:11:21,732 --> 00:11:24,493 Speaker 3: And then it raised a serious question for us, you know, 203 00:11:24,852 --> 00:11:29,213 Speaker 3: so who's suffering is considered newsworthy and why the voice 204 00:11:29,252 --> 00:11:32,933 Speaker 3: of Iranians demanding basic right, dignity and freedom is just 205 00:11:33,053 --> 00:11:37,053 Speaker 3: you know, sideline, just because it doesn't, you know, fitted 206 00:11:37,173 --> 00:11:39,933 Speaker 3: the prevailing global world views. 207 00:11:40,852 --> 00:11:44,012 Speaker 4: So what would you like New Zealanders to know? We've 208 00:11:44,053 --> 00:11:46,132 Speaker 4: got a bunch of New Zealanders listening right now. What 209 00:11:46,372 --> 00:11:48,813 Speaker 4: would you most like New Zealanders to know about what's 210 00:11:48,813 --> 00:11:51,172 Speaker 4: going on and if they would like to help, what 211 00:11:51,413 --> 00:11:52,853 Speaker 4: would you like to see New Zealanders do. 212 00:11:54,533 --> 00:11:56,653 Speaker 3: So first thing is that I think there are two 213 00:11:56,732 --> 00:12:00,693 Speaker 3: main misconceptions among you know, New Zealanders about Iran and 214 00:12:00,693 --> 00:12:03,732 Speaker 3: what's happening there. We have two groups, depending on where 215 00:12:03,732 --> 00:12:07,133 Speaker 3: people sit on the political spectrum. You know, some people 216 00:12:07,213 --> 00:12:10,453 Speaker 3: find it irrelevant why should we care about Iran? And 217 00:12:10,533 --> 00:12:14,413 Speaker 3: some people view it as something hostile and threatening. You know. 218 00:12:14,492 --> 00:12:17,492 Speaker 3: The first group usually overlook. You know how Iran the 219 00:12:17,533 --> 00:12:21,813 Speaker 3: stability as a big, ancient country, you know, has always 220 00:12:21,892 --> 00:12:26,372 Speaker 3: affected global peace, regional security, in migration, energy markets and 221 00:12:26,453 --> 00:12:29,053 Speaker 3: many other things. We just saw, you know, how this 222 00:12:29,252 --> 00:12:32,933 Speaker 3: regime has exporting terrorism, you know, around the world. We 223 00:12:32,973 --> 00:12:35,733 Speaker 3: saw what happened in Australia in twenty twenty four, you know, 224 00:12:36,213 --> 00:12:39,573 Speaker 3: the crimes by the regime that led to the designation 225 00:12:39,653 --> 00:12:43,172 Speaker 3: of IERGC, the Islamic Revolutionary Corps of the regime as 226 00:12:43,173 --> 00:12:46,373 Speaker 3: a terrorist organization in Australia and the disclosure of the 227 00:12:46,732 --> 00:12:50,093 Speaker 3: embassy there. So that's what those who say why we 228 00:12:50,132 --> 00:12:53,172 Speaker 3: should care? Who think about it? You know, twenty seven 229 00:12:53,213 --> 00:12:56,492 Speaker 3: countries of European Union and also countries from five by 230 00:12:56,933 --> 00:13:01,333 Speaker 3: countries Australia, Canada, US have all designated IRGC a terrorist 231 00:13:01,413 --> 00:13:04,693 Speaker 3: organization and New Zealand lack of actions can turn New 232 00:13:04,813 --> 00:13:08,813 Speaker 3: Zealand into a safe heaven for terrorism. So that's you know, 233 00:13:08,933 --> 00:13:11,773 Speaker 3: in this today world, we cannot just say why should 234 00:13:11,773 --> 00:13:15,612 Speaker 3: we care? And for those who are under political left, 235 00:13:15,732 --> 00:13:19,013 Speaker 3: for them is uneasy. You know, they feel threatened because 236 00:13:19,732 --> 00:13:24,213 Speaker 3: they interpret this you know, struggle, this uprising as a 237 00:13:24,213 --> 00:13:27,292 Speaker 3: as a you know, fight against a faith and they 238 00:13:27,293 --> 00:13:30,613 Speaker 3: feel uncomfortable because, as I said, the movement doesn't fit 239 00:13:30,732 --> 00:13:36,613 Speaker 3: into their popular narratives of anti materialism, anti western. But 240 00:13:36,773 --> 00:13:39,213 Speaker 3: we need to consider that. You know, Iranian people are 241 00:13:39,293 --> 00:13:42,733 Speaker 3: out there. They have been massacred just for calling to 242 00:13:42,892 --> 00:13:47,533 Speaker 3: have a normal, free space life with dignity, and it 243 00:13:47,612 --> 00:13:52,852 Speaker 3: should you know, resonate far beyond you know, any political views. 244 00:13:53,213 --> 00:13:56,213 Speaker 2: Doctor Farrow, thank you very much for joining us. We 245 00:13:56,293 --> 00:14:00,172 Speaker 2: really appreciate your time and you're insights. Hopefully we'll catch 246 00:14:00,252 --> 00:14:00,892 Speaker 2: up against. 247 00:14:01,333 --> 00:14:02,093 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 248 00:14:02,132 --> 00:14:05,772 Speaker 2: Thank you there is doctor Farrow and a head of 249 00:14:05,813 --> 00:14:07,893 Speaker 2: the Iranian Woman's Council. 250 00:14:08,612 --> 00:14:11,533 Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk set B listen live on air 251 00:14:11,693 --> 00:14:14,612 Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you go. 252 00:14:14,773 --> 00:14:16,893 Speaker 1: With our podcasts on iHeartRadio.