WEBVTT - On The Front Foot Episode 263: Assessing the Oval test 0:00:09.093 --> 0:00:11.973 You're listening to a podcast from News Talk Sat B. 0:00:12.373 --> 0:00:15.173 Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on 0:00:15.333 --> 0:00:18.333 iHeart Radio. 0:00:20.133 --> 0:00:25.133 Take it on at it is out, the Test is over, 0:00:27.773 --> 0:00:31.213 smokes a beauty, It is out and. 0:00:31.173 --> 0:00:33.853 Here he goes. This delivery has in the usage to go. 0:00:36.493 --> 0:00:39.893 On the Front Foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Coney 0:00:40.213 --> 0:00:44.093 powered by News Talks Dead B at iHeart Radio. 0:00:47.613 --> 0:00:50.693 Hello back with on the Front Foot. It's a bit 0:00:50.893 --> 0:00:55.213 rich Lord Botham criticizing dropped England captain Ben Stokes for 0:00:55.333 --> 0:00:58.933 breaking its team kofy. So he doesn't see how to 0:00:59.373 --> 0:01:02.853 justify what happened. Yeah, perhaps you could look back in 0:01:03.053 --> 0:01:06.813 history for old Ian Botham. It's this series with England 0:01:06.853 --> 0:01:10.613 squared with one to play. That's exciting and the White 0:01:10.693 --> 0:01:15.533 Ferns well, their hopes are alive. Just I've got Scotland 0:01:15.813 --> 0:01:18.533 at England to play. What is it going to lead 0:01:18.573 --> 0:01:21.613 to that? A little bit later on the front foot. 0:01:21.773 --> 0:01:25.853 But a test match, a test series, had a Test game, 0:01:25.973 --> 0:01:30.533 Jeremy Coney. That was quality cricket from the new Zilders. 0:01:30.893 --> 0:01:33.773 They fought back well and outplayed England, didn't they? 0:01:34.413 --> 0:01:39.733 Yes, simply more reliable wads, very solid through the match. 0:01:41.173 --> 0:01:43.453 I was a wee bit disappointed with the way they 0:01:43.453 --> 0:01:46.293 got out in the first inning some of the players, 0:01:46.333 --> 0:01:50.333 but they got partnerships through and I think the key 0:01:50.413 --> 0:01:53.293 part in the match almost was that second morning when 0:01:53.693 --> 0:01:57.173 England came out again and used a short ball and 0:01:57.293 --> 0:02:00.973 New Zealand through Phillips who had had it was a 0:02:01.053 --> 0:02:06.013 terrific innings from Phillips that whole session at the end 0:02:06.053 --> 0:02:11.773 of first day. It was quite commanding, you know, watching him. 0:02:12.213 --> 0:02:14.733 Don't often see a modern player trying not to hit 0:02:14.773 --> 0:02:19.653 the ball, and yet he was able to get underneath 0:02:19.693 --> 0:02:24.573 the ball in various ways of archer. That cost England 0:02:24.573 --> 0:02:28.773 because then the physiotherapist the next morning said Archie, you 0:02:28.933 --> 0:02:32.933 can't bowl after those eight overs of short pitched bowling. 0:02:33.293 --> 0:02:38.373 So we had physios calling the bowling changes and then 0:02:38.413 --> 0:02:40.853 from them to go on with Jamison. I mean that 0:02:40.973 --> 0:02:44.453 was fabulous and so it was three ninety one. A 0:02:44.453 --> 0:02:49.013 bit of gst in there perhaps, but New Zealand had 0:02:49.053 --> 0:02:51.853 the two top innings was in the match. New Zealand 0:02:51.853 --> 0:02:54.733 got the two hundreds in the match and New Zealand 0:02:54.733 --> 0:02:55.893 had Henry in. 0:02:55.893 --> 0:02:59.133 The match and that was enoughty to secure the win. 0:02:59.733 --> 0:03:03.693 Yeah, that's the interesting point that you talk about. Henry 0:03:03.733 --> 0:03:05.933 was man of the match and eleven wickets deserve it. 0:03:05.973 --> 0:03:09.653 That's a great performance. Our case had to be made 0:03:09.693 --> 0:03:13.373 for Phillips because I thought that was a gutsy display 0:03:13.973 --> 0:03:18.333 archers bowling, to my mind in cricket terms, was evil. 0:03:18.413 --> 0:03:21.773 That was the firiest spell I've seen for some time 0:03:21.813 --> 0:03:22.573 from a quickie. 0:03:23.013 --> 0:03:25.733 Yeah, eight overs of it too. He kept on going 0:03:25.773 --> 0:03:30.133 and he was very accurate, very accurate, and yet underneath 0:03:30.213 --> 0:03:33.453 Nichols went and kept on too. He was not going 0:03:33.493 --> 0:03:36.533 to play a pull shot or a hook shot. So 0:03:37.093 --> 0:03:40.573 it was a great encounter between those two and Phillips 0:03:40.733 --> 0:03:44.133 won it, and so he was able to carry on 0:03:44.213 --> 0:03:47.653 a very important innings for him and for the side, 0:03:48.133 --> 0:03:50.733 and to be able to get that, you know, three 0:03:50.853 --> 0:03:54.933 ninety just pushed it beyond England really and New Zealand 0:03:55.213 --> 0:03:59.533 cleverly bowled O'Rourke and Jamison mainly from the Pavilion end. 0:03:59.573 --> 0:04:02.413 They thought there was more bounce from that end, and 0:04:02.453 --> 0:04:05.573 then they bowled a skiddier bowl as Smith and Henry 0:04:05.933 --> 0:04:09.013 from the Vauxhall end and that proved I think the 0:04:09.413 --> 0:04:12.653 very good decision from Latham or whoever made it. 0:04:12.653 --> 0:04:17.653 It was very effective that period of play when Archer 0:04:17.973 --> 0:04:21.133 was at his peak and Phillips was batting. The way 0:04:21.413 --> 0:04:25.213 was to me is the is the story of Test 0:04:25.253 --> 0:04:29.413 cricket that puts Test cricket way beyond any other form 0:04:29.453 --> 0:04:31.373 of the game, doesn't it to be able to watch 0:04:31.773 --> 0:04:37.893 that confrontation skills of players being used, And as you say, 0:04:38.213 --> 0:04:41.133 Phillips won because Archie didn't get. 0:04:40.973 --> 0:04:46.133 A wicket right and he showed no little skill in 0:04:46.213 --> 0:04:49.373 going under some of those deliveries. All Right, it might 0:04:49.413 --> 0:04:51.893 have looked a bit awkward, and some people even had 0:04:51.933 --> 0:04:54.653 a bit of a giggle on the occasion, but boy, 0:04:54.693 --> 0:04:58.933 you're right it was. It was cricket for real, proper cricket. 0:04:59.613 --> 0:05:04.213 Two guys not giving in, and that's those are the 0:05:04.253 --> 0:05:07.093 sort of encounters you like to see, and it's the 0:05:07.133 --> 0:05:10.453 only format that you will see that sort of thing happening. 0:05:10.933 --> 0:05:14.693 And you know, you've got to also give some credit to, 0:05:15.293 --> 0:05:18.453 in fact, a lot of credit to Henry Nichols. I'm 0:05:19.013 --> 0:05:22.333 Kane Williamson's replacement. Hey oh, it's like the days of 0:05:22.453 --> 0:05:26.133 Willie Watson coming in as replacement for Richard Hadley. There's 0:05:26.213 --> 0:05:29.973 no replacement for players of that quality. But yet Nichols 0:05:30.053 --> 0:05:32.013 did everything you wanted him to do. 0:05:32.933 --> 0:05:34.853 Yeah, he got a twenty odd in the first innings. 0:05:34.893 --> 0:05:38.733 Took his time, but there were little signs that he 0:05:38.893 --> 0:05:42.173 was starting to back himself and gain some confidence, I 0:05:42.173 --> 0:05:44.933 think from that first and he batted for quite a 0:05:45.053 --> 0:05:48.093 number of balls before he was bold. And then in 0:05:48.173 --> 0:05:53.773 that second innings he hung in there and as England 0:05:53.853 --> 0:05:57.693 set those very short set fields, some strange fields sets 0:05:58.173 --> 0:06:02.013 short shortcover, short mid off, short mid on short mid 0:06:02.013 --> 0:06:04.813 wicket and he just punched the ball through. He and 0:06:05.013 --> 0:06:09.413 the were a partnership between Nichols and Ravendra that next 0:06:09.533 --> 0:06:13.653 day was able to push New Zealand. Ravendra playing the big, 0:06:13.893 --> 0:06:17.733 classical sort of strokes that were eye catching, but Nichols too, 0:06:18.133 --> 0:06:21.013 don't forget. Even against the spinner, Vessel was able to 0:06:21.093 --> 0:06:24.253 knock him over the top a few times and he 0:06:24.533 --> 0:06:29.693 just punched the ball or steered the ball and was 0:06:29.693 --> 0:06:33.853 getting boundaries because those fielders were in quite close. So 0:06:34.253 --> 0:06:36.893 a really good innings from him. You couldn't ask for 0:06:37.053 --> 0:06:42.453 more from Henry Nichols in that match. As I say, 0:06:42.533 --> 0:06:45.053 the two hundreds came for New Zealand, didn't they They mattered? 0:06:45.173 --> 0:06:50.573 Ye, most definitely, and you look back at a technical awareness, 0:06:51.013 --> 0:06:56.413 I think England were technically outplayed. McCallum tried to justify 0:06:57.253 --> 0:07:02.133 the technics that they undertook, but he was unconvincing. They 0:07:02.133 --> 0:07:08.573 were outplayed and the technical side of things took took 0:07:08.573 --> 0:07:09.573 over from New Zealand. 0:07:10.013 --> 0:07:11.773 Well New Zealand once they got the runs. 0:07:11.773 --> 0:07:14.013 Of course, that put a lot of pressure on England 0:07:14.453 --> 0:07:20.293 in their last innings. And you know O'Rourke hasn't found 0:07:20.333 --> 0:07:24.293 it quite so easy heres. The pitchers haven't suited him. 0:07:24.293 --> 0:07:27.653 In the first first match at Lord's you had to 0:07:27.693 --> 0:07:31.373 bring the stumps into play with lbw's in bold, so 0:07:32.173 --> 0:07:36.493 his length didn't really that didn't suit O'Rourke. And in 0:07:36.533 --> 0:07:39.653 this particular match also the odd one was keeping a 0:07:39.653 --> 0:07:43.493 little low. But he did get important wickets like Ducket, 0:07:43.933 --> 0:07:48.293 like Gay where he got them to flinch and turn slightly. 0:07:48.773 --> 0:07:52.053 Duckett tried to swat him and was caught by Henry 0:07:52.093 --> 0:07:55.933 at mid on. Jamison got a few wickets at the 0:07:55.973 --> 0:07:59.173 starter as well. Everyone played their little bit, didn't they, 0:07:59.493 --> 0:08:04.213 But striding above everything it was Matt Henry his skill 0:08:05.213 --> 0:08:10.293 in that pitch, just outside of just the right links, 0:08:10.773 --> 0:08:13.813 nipping the odd one back. You know, he nearly got 0:08:14.013 --> 0:08:16.733 route and Brooke that second to last day didn't. He 0:08:16.813 --> 0:08:20.613 was inside edges, just onto the pad and then he 0:08:20.693 --> 0:08:23.173 got one to just hold its line a little bit 0:08:23.333 --> 0:08:25.853 with Brook looking to play it as if it was 0:08:25.893 --> 0:08:28.573 coming in, and took the outside edge and was gone. 0:08:29.133 --> 0:08:30.653 He was looking quite dangerous. 0:08:31.013 --> 0:08:35.293 It's it's looking to be an interesting Test match at 0:08:35.333 --> 0:08:39.693 trent Bridge now because England back in full force. They 0:08:39.773 --> 0:08:44.813 suffered because of the issue around Stokes. Now you know 0:08:45.653 --> 0:08:48.493 that that has been ongoing right the way since the 0:08:48.933 --> 0:08:54.093 Lord's Tests, but you know, are they going to overcome that? 0:08:54.213 --> 0:08:56.173 And this lead up to the trent Bridge Test? 0:08:56.893 --> 0:08:59.573 Oh mate, I just I had to go out on 0:08:59.613 --> 0:09:04.253 the field to start TMS and some of and some 0:09:04.333 --> 0:09:06.653 of the TV and that sort of thing, and the 0:09:06.693 --> 0:09:08.853 majority of the time we were not talking. 0:09:08.693 --> 0:09:09.453 About the game. 0:09:10.093 --> 0:09:13.573 We were talking about the Stokes Atkinson kind of incident. 0:09:14.013 --> 0:09:19.293 There were two investigations, one by the ECB. They thought 0:09:19.373 --> 0:09:25.333 they breached such a contractual obligation about the curfew. They 0:09:25.373 --> 0:09:28.413 didn't give any blame for the violent conduct at all 0:09:28.533 --> 0:09:31.213 to either of the players, and Stokes didn't even witness it, 0:09:31.573 --> 0:09:34.453 so that's what they came up with. Then the regulator 0:09:34.853 --> 0:09:38.053 is the other guy who was investigating it. He's more 0:09:38.093 --> 0:09:42.853 of a guy who takes a legal view of the 0:09:42.893 --> 0:09:45.373 whole thing, and he found there was no case to 0:09:45.453 --> 0:09:50.293 answer at all for them. There was no ECB rules 0:09:50.373 --> 0:09:54.293 or regulations broken, he said, and there's no provocation about 0:09:54.333 --> 0:09:56.573 the incident. So he just sort of pushed it from 0:09:56.653 --> 0:10:01.373 one side. So the curfew was obviously spoken about in 0:10:01.413 --> 0:10:05.733 the room, but it wasn't written down as contracts. Now, 0:10:05.773 --> 0:10:09.533 I'm afraid with players occur, so there was nothing they broke, 0:10:10.093 --> 0:10:13.453 and the habit carry on and carry on for two 0:10:13.533 --> 0:10:16.213 weeks is absolutely absurd. 0:10:16.293 --> 0:10:18.733 Why didn't someone take charge of the whole thing? 0:10:19.493 --> 0:10:23.093 The point I would make now is what happens now 0:10:23.173 --> 0:10:25.173 between Stokes McCullum. 0:10:26.453 --> 0:10:28.653 How is that relationship? 0:10:28.773 --> 0:10:34.773 I think Stokes personally won't be very happy and about that, 0:10:35.213 --> 0:10:38.013 and I think that's going to be the biggest issue 0:10:38.093 --> 0:10:42.013 now for McCullum to kind of repair that. 0:10:42.733 --> 0:10:43.013 Now. 0:10:43.853 --> 0:10:46.613 Other people will have different views, I'm sure about it, 0:10:46.853 --> 0:10:49.573 but that's what I took from that whole thing. There 0:10:49.653 --> 0:10:52.933 is a gap, a schism, a fracture, whatever you want 0:10:52.973 --> 0:10:55.773 to call it between those two players who were soaked 0:10:56.013 --> 0:10:59.213 or those two important people Stokes and McCullum. 0:10:59.493 --> 0:11:00.333 That has occurred. 0:11:00.973 --> 0:11:03.093 Yeah, and we'll talk about that shortly with one of 0:11:03.133 --> 0:11:07.133 your colleagues, Daniel across from TMS. But you'll be heading 0:11:07.213 --> 0:11:12.453 up to trent Bridge and I feel though from this 0:11:12.693 --> 0:11:14.813 side of the world, you'd have to go with the 0:11:14.933 --> 0:11:17.173 sort of confidence New Zealand will take up there as well, 0:11:17.213 --> 0:11:19.613 won't you. We know what happened at trent Bridge last 0:11:19.613 --> 0:11:24.493 time they played there and Johnny Besto ran a mock, 0:11:24.533 --> 0:11:30.013 didn't he. But the performance at the Oval where the 0:11:30.093 --> 0:11:32.613 last time New Zealand played there was nineteen ninety nine 0:11:32.613 --> 0:11:35.613 and Chris Kenns led us to victory in that Test 0:11:35.653 --> 0:11:40.693 match must give them great confidence going up to Nottingham. 0:11:40.733 --> 0:11:42.213 Definitely. Definitely. 0:11:42.533 --> 0:11:47.493 The bowling is starting to operate nicely together. I can't 0:11:47.653 --> 0:11:54.573 see that changing greatly. And the batting now is gaining confidence. 0:11:54.653 --> 0:11:57.413 I think it's looking a bit longer and a bit 0:11:57.453 --> 0:12:01.653 more certain. They're not just playing white ball shots than 0:12:01.733 --> 0:12:04.733 getting out any longer. They're playing a decent longlings. Let's 0:12:04.773 --> 0:12:07.933 hope that continues. I've looked at the scores at not 0:12:09.213 --> 0:12:12.773 they're round about I mean some of the scores for example, 0:12:12.853 --> 0:12:15.973 not playing Surry all teams three innings all four hundred. 0:12:16.573 --> 0:12:19.453 Somerset played there the latest game on June the twelfth 0:12:19.453 --> 0:12:22.533 to the fifteenth a three hundred and a three hundred 0:12:22.533 --> 0:12:25.893 for Somerset and not bowled out. It's the seamers have 0:12:25.973 --> 0:12:29.013 got most of the wickets, but there is also a 0:12:29.053 --> 0:12:32.733 guy called Liam Patterson White who's a left arm spinner 0:12:32.893 --> 0:12:35.213 who gets wickets for Not as well. And Leech has 0:12:35.253 --> 0:12:38.213 got a three in that last game as well. So 0:12:38.773 --> 0:12:41.253 whether England are going to go in with a spinner 0:12:42.013 --> 0:12:44.093 or whether they're just going to go with their seemers, 0:12:44.093 --> 0:12:45.373 we're going to have to wait and see. 0:12:45.413 --> 0:12:47.373 But it is possible to get runs there. 0:12:47.933 --> 0:12:51.773 Yeah, interesting stuff for Jerry. The Stokes issue really played 0:12:52.093 --> 0:12:57.133 a big part in the entire Test and the lead 0:12:57.213 --> 0:13:01.253 up to the Test. And it's a pleasure to be 0:13:01.373 --> 0:13:06.373 joined by Test Met Special commentator Daniel Norcross because I'm 0:13:06.413 --> 0:13:09.333 sure it's an issue that's taken a lot of time 0:13:09.413 --> 0:13:14.613 and a lot of thought within the English media. To me, 0:13:14.693 --> 0:13:18.693 there's been a lot of plank spoken about the Stokes issue. 0:13:18.733 --> 0:13:21.213 I mean it's something that happens should have been dealt 0:13:21.213 --> 0:13:24.573 with and moved on, but it's dominated the whole time 0:13:24.693 --> 0:13:28.133 Daniel hasn't it in terms of Ben Stokes, not only 0:13:28.173 --> 0:13:31.453 as leader of the side, but his relationships with people 0:13:31.493 --> 0:13:35.453 around the game. And I think it's done England and 0:13:35.493 --> 0:13:37.133 the England team at the service, isn't it? 0:13:37.933 --> 0:13:42.613 Absolutely? And you know it's trying to process it. Brian 0:13:43.173 --> 0:13:45.613 is trying to work out who's to blame for what, 0:13:46.733 --> 0:13:50.053 and that's obviously what happens in these situations. You get fingerpointing. 0:13:50.133 --> 0:13:52.933 So let me give you roughly the timeline. So within 0:13:53.693 --> 0:13:56.973 twelve hours fifteen hours or so of England winning that 0:13:57.493 --> 0:13:59.413 bit of a lottery of a Test match at Lord's, 0:14:00.013 --> 0:14:02.773 suddenly you get this message that arrives on your phone 0:14:03.613 --> 0:14:05.893 and it was pretty blunt and it said that Ben 0:14:05.933 --> 0:14:09.053 Stokes and Gus Atkinson had been involved in an incident 0:14:09.413 --> 0:14:13.333 in a nightclub, at which point your heart sinks because 0:14:13.893 --> 0:14:16.893 it's the echoes. It's the echoes of the Ashes, it's 0:14:16.893 --> 0:14:19.253 the echoes of the pre Ashes, it's the echoes of 0:14:19.653 --> 0:14:23.573 Harry Brook and his nightclub incident in New Zealand, of Noosa, 0:14:24.213 --> 0:14:26.253 and it takes it all the way back to, of course, 0:14:26.293 --> 0:14:30.013 ben Stokes's fabled altercation in Bristol, which is now nearly 0:14:30.093 --> 0:14:32.973 nine years away, and you think to yourself, how on 0:14:33.053 --> 0:14:36.693 earth can this have happened? And the immediate reaction is, 0:14:36.973 --> 0:14:39.933 you know, if the captain's involved in an incident like this, 0:14:40.893 --> 0:14:43.853 then you know this is the last straw. Then you 0:14:43.973 --> 0:14:48.373 discover gradually over time, but so slowly, Wie and this 0:14:48.533 --> 0:14:52.933 was the issue that actually the captain wasn't involved in 0:14:52.973 --> 0:14:55.053 an altercation at all. It happened to be in a 0:14:55.173 --> 0:14:59.053 nightclub when a punch was thrown, not at him. And 0:14:59.413 --> 0:15:02.053 then you find out that there was a curfew in place, 0:15:02.093 --> 0:15:04.813 and you don't understand why there would be because to 0:15:04.853 --> 0:15:06.693 be really clear, you know, when a Test match is 0:15:06.733 --> 0:15:08.853 over and a lot of these players live in London, 0:15:09.293 --> 0:15:11.413 were they really expected to be on a curfew for 0:15:11.453 --> 0:15:13.413 the next ten days when they'd be going back to 0:15:13.453 --> 0:15:16.933 their houses. I mean, Jamie Smith himself was going to 0:15:16.973 --> 0:15:18.453 have to be at the birth of a child of 0:15:18.453 --> 0:15:19.933 his was going to was he going to have to 0:15:19.933 --> 0:15:22.293 miss it if it was after midnight? I mean the 0:15:22.333 --> 0:15:25.893 absurdity of all these particular you know, different bits and 0:15:25.933 --> 0:15:29.453 bobs that were that were failing to be addressed by 0:15:29.493 --> 0:15:32.373 the ECB. So the ECB left this vacuum in which 0:15:32.413 --> 0:15:33.773 speculation began to. 0:15:33.693 --> 0:15:37.533 Grow, and then we discovered. 0:15:37.053 --> 0:15:39.373 At the end of the entire process, when the end 0:15:39.413 --> 0:15:42.773 of the process was yesterday, that the cricket Regulator had 0:15:42.813 --> 0:15:46.093 reported that there was no breach. Now why it took 0:15:46.133 --> 0:15:52.053 so long, no one knows. And what I guess is 0:15:52.053 --> 0:15:54.533 is showing up here is that either the ECB have 0:15:54.693 --> 0:16:00.693 been exceptionally incompetent in managing the message, or there has 0:16:00.773 --> 0:16:04.893 been an attempt to kind of almost constructively dismiss s 0:16:04.893 --> 0:16:08.853 those almost as if the relationship between the cat and 0:16:08.893 --> 0:16:12.613 the management has broken down somewhere that we can't see 0:16:12.653 --> 0:16:14.853 somewhere over the course of the ashes and the build 0:16:14.893 --> 0:16:18.853 up to this series that actually they wanted him to 0:16:19.853 --> 0:16:22.933 resign himself. We had that peculiar press conference in which 0:16:22.973 --> 0:16:26.773 Brenda McCullen kept talking about Ben Stokes' mental health and 0:16:26.853 --> 0:16:29.653 being worried about him, and then within three days of 0:16:29.653 --> 0:16:32.013 that we had the CEO of Durham, the county where 0:16:32.013 --> 0:16:35.013 he plays, saying there's absolutely nothing wrong with Ben's mental 0:16:35.013 --> 0:16:37.213 health and we're looking forward to having him play for us. 0:16:37.533 --> 0:16:41.853 So it's been a snaffoo of the ECB's own making. 0:16:42.093 --> 0:16:45.573 You might argue that had Ben Stokes not bothered to 0:16:45.613 --> 0:16:47.773 go to a nightclub at all, even if he's having 0:16:47.813 --> 0:16:51.373 a quiet drink somewhere and nowhere near a punch, that 0:16:51.493 --> 0:16:56.053 wasn't sensible. But it's been overblown to such an extent. 0:16:56.333 --> 0:16:58.693 You've then found yourself with a bunch of cricketers who 0:16:58.693 --> 0:17:00.973 have become collateral damage. And I think here of the 0:17:01.093 --> 0:17:05.533 likes of the Demuton's Sonny Baker, James Rue coming into 0:17:05.533 --> 0:17:08.773 a game with very inadequate preparation in a that was 0:17:08.813 --> 0:17:12.013 not strong enough to really hold their own against a 0:17:12.173 --> 0:17:15.933 very very good New Zealand side, Matt Fisher coming back 0:17:15.973 --> 0:17:18.333 for his first game in four years, and they'll all 0:17:18.333 --> 0:17:20.173 be out of the team for the next game. I mean, 0:17:20.173 --> 0:17:23.853 we could very easily Brian have a bizarre situation in 0:17:23.853 --> 0:17:28.253 which England field and eleven at lords are totally different 0:17:28.293 --> 0:17:30.973 eleven for the second Test and revert to exactly the 0:17:30.973 --> 0:17:33.693 same eleven they had at Lord's for the third Test. Now, 0:17:34.213 --> 0:17:36.813 I'm pretty certain that's never happened in Test figure history. 0:17:37.213 --> 0:17:39.333 And the reason things like that don't happen is because 0:17:39.373 --> 0:17:43.813 it's a very bad idea. So you know, it's been 0:17:43.853 --> 0:17:47.653 a terrible, terrible sequence of errors. I don't know whether 0:17:47.693 --> 0:17:50.893 Ben Stokes's relationship with the ECB can be properly repaired. 0:17:51.213 --> 0:17:54.293 I don't know whether his relationship with Brendan McCullum is 0:17:54.333 --> 0:17:57.613 a healthy one. He didn't seem to be being supported 0:17:57.653 --> 0:18:01.613 in the immediate aftermath of the news breaking. And I 0:18:01.653 --> 0:18:04.093 would say that if New Zealand win the trent Bridge Test, 0:18:04.133 --> 0:18:05.973 and there's a very good chance of that happening because 0:18:06.013 --> 0:18:07.933 they're a very fine team and they're playing pretty well 0:18:07.973 --> 0:18:10.893 at the moment, you'd have to say I think something 0:18:10.933 --> 0:18:14.533 will break. And whether that's McCullum or Stokes or Key, 0:18:14.693 --> 0:18:17.133 I don't know. But this is quite a significant moment 0:18:17.573 --> 0:18:21.173 for English cricket and it's hoving interview and because of 0:18:21.213 --> 0:18:22.173 the next seven days. 0:18:22.653 --> 0:18:26.093 Yes, there's a perception that there is friction between individuals. 0:18:26.173 --> 0:18:28.893 That's the big concern, isn't it. And I sort of 0:18:28.933 --> 0:18:31.653 since on this side of the world, from reading what 0:18:31.693 --> 0:18:35.013 I have read of various sosuation, you're probably closer to it, 0:18:35.053 --> 0:18:39.733 and no more than me that there's a vast majority 0:18:39.773 --> 0:18:43.973 of people now don't want Stokes as captain. Is that 0:18:44.493 --> 0:18:45.893 a perception or is that a fact? 0:18:46.413 --> 0:18:47.613 Well, actually. 0:18:48.733 --> 0:18:51.373 I did a couple of events, you know, public events 0:18:51.413 --> 0:18:55.573 where you have dinners and whatnot, and the overwhelming sentiment 0:18:55.813 --> 0:18:58.813 in the general public that I saw was that they 0:18:58.853 --> 0:19:02.253 wanted Stokes. I mean, partly because of the cricketer that 0:19:02.293 --> 0:19:04.933 he is, partly because he balances the team, partly because 0:19:05.373 --> 0:19:07.973 I don't think people in England are blaming Stokes is 0:19:08.053 --> 0:19:10.693 kept and sy for England's failures. They're tending to blame 0:19:10.813 --> 0:19:16.573 more the coach and Rob Key for inadequate preparation, not 0:19:16.773 --> 0:19:19.333 giving the team what they needed in advance of the 0:19:19.693 --> 0:19:22.973 action series, going into these series with a kind of 0:19:23.013 --> 0:19:26.573 Devil may care attitude, and Stokes was adopting a quite 0:19:26.573 --> 0:19:29.253 a different approach during the Ashes, as you may remember, 0:19:29.293 --> 0:19:32.333 you know, suddenly digging himself in in Brisbane and Adelaide, 0:19:32.933 --> 0:19:35.853 kind of abandoning the approach that had taken them to 0:19:35.893 --> 0:19:39.373 that point. So I think actually I was quite surprised 0:19:39.413 --> 0:19:41.493 to see it. I expected there to be a kind 0:19:41.533 --> 0:19:44.133 of angry backlash at Stokes, what are you doing in 0:19:44.133 --> 0:19:46.653 a nightclub. We've been through this all over again. That's it, 0:19:46.853 --> 0:19:50.533 We've had enough. But actually there's quite a lot of 0:19:50.573 --> 0:19:54.333 sympathy for Stokes, and whether that's because, as I say, 0:19:54.373 --> 0:19:57.653 because he's such a colossal cricketer in English history, because 0:19:57.693 --> 0:20:01.213 of what he represents the moments he's been at, but 0:20:01.333 --> 0:20:04.013 also because he's such a key figure in making that 0:20:04.093 --> 0:20:05.253 eleven actually work. 0:20:05.333 --> 0:20:07.893 I don't know. So I would think that actually the 0:20:08.413 --> 0:20:09.493 the bigger pressure is. 0:20:09.453 --> 0:20:13.213 Going to be on McCollum, key and as well as 0:20:13.413 --> 0:20:16.733 the Richards, Goulden Thompson at the top, because you know, 0:20:16.773 --> 0:20:20.453 they are part of the decision making process that results 0:20:20.453 --> 0:20:23.973 in there being no practice matches before the Ashes, you know, 0:20:23.973 --> 0:20:26.453 playing a one day series in New Zealand, but sending 0:20:27.133 --> 0:20:32.213 many of the Ashes squad there completely inadequate preparation. So yeah, 0:20:32.413 --> 0:20:36.093 I look, it's hard to tells and it's hard to gauge, 0:20:36.133 --> 0:20:39.053 but I think the general feeling is that people want 0:20:39.133 --> 0:20:42.893 Stokes back and they're starting to tire of the words 0:20:42.893 --> 0:20:44.893 that are coming out of the ECB took. 0:20:44.773 --> 0:20:47.133 A bit of stick from their former players, Michael Vaughan 0:20:47.293 --> 0:20:50.613 and even Ian both of them. But Rich I said 0:20:50.893 --> 0:20:53.813 a little bit earlier. Some people just don't learn, do they. Well, 0:20:54.013 --> 0:20:55.853 you know it, Boss took a long while to learn, 0:20:55.893 --> 0:20:58.533 didn't he when he was playing the game. But The 0:20:58.613 --> 0:21:04.933 end result Dan is that the England side didn't play well. 0:21:04.973 --> 0:21:08.933 They were outplayed by New Zealand. Some qualify cricket from 0:21:08.933 --> 0:21:11.613 the New Zealanders in that guy. There's some quality stuff 0:21:11.653 --> 0:21:15.453 from England as well. But New Zealand outplayed them, didn't. 0:21:15.213 --> 0:21:17.653 They well, they absolutely thrashed them. I mean the only 0:21:17.733 --> 0:21:19.613 time that England were in that game was on the 0:21:19.653 --> 0:21:22.853 first day and that was largely due to self inflicted 0:21:22.893 --> 0:21:25.653 mistakes by the New Zealand batters on a pretty good 0:21:25.693 --> 0:21:27.773 pitch on the first day. You know, there were a 0:21:27.813 --> 0:21:31.693 few soft dismissals, there was some pretty tight, decent enough 0:21:31.733 --> 0:21:34.573 bowling from a very callow attack. I mean, you know, 0:21:34.653 --> 0:21:38.773 it was the most inexperienced four man pace attack England 0:21:38.773 --> 0:21:41.453 has ever put out. Between them, they had twenty nine caps, 0:21:41.933 --> 0:21:46.053 which is just insanely inexperienced. You know, they sort of 0:21:46.093 --> 0:21:47.653 held their own on the first day, they were a 0:21:47.653 --> 0:21:50.853 bit assisted by New Zealand, but thereafter New Zealand beat 0:21:50.853 --> 0:21:53.533 them in every department of the game. England were dropping catches. 0:21:53.573 --> 0:21:55.693 They got a new wicket keeper behind the stumps who 0:21:55.733 --> 0:21:58.613 didn't look up to the job in his first game. Understandably, 0:21:59.173 --> 0:22:03.693 New Zealand's bowling was persistent and penetrative, and you know, 0:22:03.893 --> 0:22:06.493 it's wonderful to see there's a foreman pace attack there 0:22:06.533 --> 0:22:09.213 that one day Nathan Smith is taking five six wickets, 0:22:09.213 --> 0:22:12.173 then Kyle Jamison's chipping in with three or four willow 0:22:12.293 --> 0:22:15.773 rowp looks like a persistent threat and amongst all of it, 0:22:16.053 --> 0:22:19.373 Matt Henry's taking eleven wickets. They've got good plans. They 0:22:19.413 --> 0:22:21.573 know how to keep England's best batters quiet. 0:22:21.613 --> 0:22:22.093 I thought the. 0:22:22.053 --> 0:22:25.973 Plans to Brook and Route were absolutely impeccable. They looked 0:22:25.973 --> 0:22:29.533 like they were playing Test cricket, whereas England team, not 0:22:29.613 --> 0:22:33.213 particularly surprisingly given their inexperience, looked like they were treading water, 0:22:33.693 --> 0:22:36.733 thrashing about trying to stay in the game. And I 0:22:36.773 --> 0:22:39.773 mean I thought before this series started that England would 0:22:39.773 --> 0:22:43.733 really struggle to beat New Zealand. England don't lose Test 0:22:43.733 --> 0:22:45.813 series at home very often, the last one was about 0:22:45.813 --> 0:22:46.773 thirteen years ago. 0:22:47.613 --> 0:22:49.333 But New Zealand are a very. 0:22:49.213 --> 0:22:53.373 Strong team who were habitually underestimated by England and by 0:22:53.373 --> 0:22:56.173 many of their other opponents. And they've shown it that 0:22:56.573 --> 0:22:58.653 the bowlers are going to win you series, aren't they 0:22:58.813 --> 0:23:02.653 And their format pace attack I think is better groove, 0:23:02.733 --> 0:23:05.893 better honed, more experienced, and they work as a pack, 0:23:05.973 --> 0:23:07.573 and they've got plans and they know how to get 0:23:07.573 --> 0:23:10.933 people out. England plans were very simple. Joe Route returning 0:23:10.933 --> 0:23:13.653 as captain when he couldn't get a wicket, goes to 0:23:13.653 --> 0:23:16.733 a short ballploy the over bowl. Joff Er Archer again 0:23:16.933 --> 0:23:19.853 eight o uspell. I mean shades of Mount Munganery, wasn't it. 0:23:21.573 --> 0:23:24.653 They're just persistently sticking around with a leg slip hoping 0:23:24.693 --> 0:23:26.813