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Speaker 1: Kiyota. I'm Chelsea Daniels and from the team behind the

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Speaker 1: front page the New Zealand Herald's daily news podcast, This

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Speaker 1: is Accused the Polkinghorn Trial. Over the next six weeks,

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Speaker 1: in conjunction with our usual daily episodes, we'll be bringing

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Speaker 1: you regular coverage as one of the most high profile

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Speaker 1: trials of the year makes its way through the High

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Speaker 1: Court at Auckland. A warning, this podcast contains disturbing content.

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Speaker 1: Philip Polkinghorn is accused of murdering his wife, Pauline Hannah,

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Speaker 1: but he's adamant she took her own life. Last week

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Speaker 1: we heard the Crown's opening address, all of the things

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Speaker 1: it intends to prove led to the death of the

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Speaker 1: DHB boss and potentially why. It says polking Horn strangled

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Speaker 1: his wife as he found it harder to keep his

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Speaker 1: double life of sex and meth use intact. Over the

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Speaker 1: next six weeks, we'll hear from friends and family who

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Speaker 1: will claim the pair's relationship was on shaky ground and

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Speaker 1: that Hannah was finding it difficult to deal with his

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Speaker 1: aggression and daily sexual demands. But he says she hung herself.

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Speaker 1: She had a history of depression and the continued stress

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Speaker 1: of her high profile work was too much. He maintains

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Speaker 1: their relationship was loving, quite good, perfect. Last week we

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Speaker 1: heard from those first on the scene who almost immediately

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Speaker 1: deemed it suspicious. The rope tied to the upstairs balustrade

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Speaker 1: was too loose, the tension to lax. But why on

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Speaker 1: the morning of April fifth, twenty twenty one did police

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Speaker 1: deem the scene suspicious so quickly? Polkinghorn was cooperative, gave

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Speaker 1: a statement and explained how he'd found his wife slumped

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Speaker 1: in a chair in the entrance way after he'd started

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Speaker 1: on a breakfast of tea and toast. Day six began

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Speaker 1: with a cross examination of ESR forensic scientist Fiona Matheson,

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Speaker 1: who started her testimony on Friday or Day five. This

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Speaker 1: cross examination is a chance for the defense to question

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Speaker 1: the crown witness. You'll remember last week the jury heard

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Speaker 1: how police and forensic scientists spent eleven days at the scene.

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Speaker 1: Defense lawyer Ron Mansfield has suggested forensic scientists were at

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Speaker 1: the Upland Road scene for an extraordinarily long time. Usually

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Speaker 1: in a homicide inquiry they're gone after two or three days.

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Speaker 1: He has characterized their work as a desperate but largely

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Speaker 1: futile effort to find evidence of a struggle.

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Speaker 2: I think on our quick can I said, it's crude

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Speaker 2: telling it's like an excessive fifty three hours at the address.

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Speaker 2: Would you have a better figure for me?

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Speaker 3: Not without sitting and doing, particularly what you've just done.

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Speaker 3: Certainly I was the for from Monday through to Sunday.

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Speaker 3: Some days were longer than others. So yes, potentially it

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Speaker 3: is close to fifty to sixty.

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Speaker 2: Hours, and you and I would agree that that is

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Speaker 2: a very long period of time for a residential address.

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Speaker 3: That based on my experiences at the upper end of

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Speaker 3: the scale for the amount of time I would normally

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Speaker 3: spend it a scene.

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Speaker 1: Matheson was at the scene to scour it for clues

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Speaker 1: as to whether Hannah's death was a suicide or something

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Speaker 1: more sinister. She was already aware police deemed the scene suspicious.

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Speaker 1: We already know the Crown isn't relying too much on

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Speaker 1: forensics done at the scene. Alicia McClintock has already made

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Speaker 1: that clear in their opening address. But it's important for

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Speaker 1: ESR to walk the jury through what they didn't find

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Speaker 1: just as much as what they may have. Mansfield questioned,

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Speaker 1: matheson on whether she'd found any stain on the bed

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Speaker 1: and what samples were taken from the guest room where

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Speaker 1: Hannah had supposedly slept the night before. Mansfield's point here

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Speaker 1: is that there was a lack of bodily fluids, hairs,

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Speaker 1: or blood spatter on the carpet in her room or

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Speaker 1: on the route to where her body was found.

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Speaker 2: Was there any blood other than that identified?

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Speaker 3: The only blood identified in this room was that that

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Speaker 3: we've just talked about on the sheet. The examinations of

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Speaker 3: the room included a luminal examination and no blood was

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Speaker 3: detected on any of the flooring surfaces.

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Speaker 2: So no splatter, no smears, no drips, nothing, no blood

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Speaker 2: was detected.

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Speaker 1: A brown stain found on a fitted sheet in Hannah's bedroom,

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Speaker 1: repeatedly referred to by witnesses last week, was found to

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Speaker 1: belong to Philip Pulkinghorn, not his wife Pauline Hannah.

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Speaker 3: It could have been there for minutes, hours, or days,

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Speaker 3: or potentially since the item was last washed, and pining

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Speaker 3: on how well the item is washed, it may not

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Speaker 3: have been removed and washing, so there's a continuum of

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Speaker 3: how long it could have been there.

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Speaker 2: So in short, it's stopped the pulping horns.

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Speaker 3: Blood.

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Speaker 2: We'll get that confirmed, but we don't know when it

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Speaker 2: was deposited and or how long it's been there.

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Speaker 3: No, we do not.

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Speaker 1: Ron Mansfield pointed out no blood was found on the

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Speaker 1: pristine white walls of the Polkinghorn home, which is decorated

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Speaker 1: in various shades of white or cream, or on the

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Speaker 1: route from Hannah's bedroom to the downstairs area where her

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Speaker 1: body was found.

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Speaker 3: Yes, an examination was carried out both with and without

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Speaker 3: a light to see whether or not there was any

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Speaker 3: staining that could be attributed to blood on those walls.

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Speaker 2: So first with the naked eye, was any blood scene

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Speaker 2: on that journey and that cureful examination through that journey.

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Speaker 3: No blood was seen by me or my colleague during

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Speaker 3: those examinations.

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Speaker 1: So there was no damage in the bedroom or on

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Speaker 1: that route that might have been caused by some sort

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Speaker 1: of fight, assault or the moving of a body. And

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Speaker 1: we already know from last week's testimony that there was

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Speaker 1: no drag marks found either. Mansfield foreshadowed some evidence to

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Speaker 1: be examined later in the trial. During his cross examination

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Speaker 1: of Matheson, he mentioned, we're going to hear from some

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Speaker 1: power experts concerning when the washing machine and dryer might

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Speaker 1: have been turned on. Last week, there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of tiptoeing around the three slices of bread found in

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Speaker 1: the toaster. Was it toasted or lightly toasted given the

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Speaker 1: setting was pictured as being on one. We'll also likely

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Speaker 1: hear more about the significance of the acrylic toeenaw found

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Speaker 1: in the washing machine. In amongst women's exercise gear and teetowels,

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Speaker 1: Mansfield also gave another glimpse into the contents of Polkinghorn's

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Speaker 1: videoed police interview, which will be played to the court

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Speaker 1: later in the trial. In asking Matheson about her examination

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Speaker 1: of the blue ottoman found on its side in the

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Speaker 1: guest room Hannah had been in the night before her death,

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Speaker 1: he mentioned Polkinghorn said he used it to reach to

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Speaker 1: the top cupboard in the wardrobe to fetch three stuffed

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Speaker 1: animals his wife had requested. These three toys can be

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Speaker 1: seen in photos on the side table next to the

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Speaker 1: bed where Hannah had slept in the afternoon's evidence centered

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Speaker 1: around a dressing gown Hannah was wearing when she died.

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Speaker 1: It's white, made of terry toweling, one size fits all.

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Speaker 1: It was stained yellow from urine, which isn't unusual given

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Speaker 1: just before death or just after a body's muscles relax

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Speaker 1: and bodily fluids can be discharged from the body. The

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Speaker 1: court was shown a photo of the gown where it

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Speaker 1: appears urine was heavily stained across the back at the

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Speaker 1: bottom of the robe. Mansfield said, if someone was lying

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Speaker 1: on the ground when the urine was released, then the

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Speaker 1: urine would go between their legs and perhaps further up

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Speaker 1: the dressing gown. If someone was seated in a chair

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Speaker 1: at the time of death, then it would go through

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Speaker 1: their legs onto the seat, moving down the garment.

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Speaker 2: But here, if we look at the photograph, it appears

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Speaker 2: at the urine staining. If we look at the belt,

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Speaker 2: is underneath the belt down to the very bottom of

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Speaker 2: the robe.

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Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, there is yellow staining on the what would

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Speaker 3: be Miss Hannah's left side, towards the base of that front,

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Speaker 3: and then on her right side there is extensive yellow

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Speaker 3: staining covering the bulk of that lower side of the

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Speaker 3: dressing gown.

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Speaker 1: Matheson said, if Hannah was sitting in a chair when

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Speaker 1: she died and urinated, you would expect the chair to

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Speaker 1: also be stained with urine. The seed of the chair

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Speaker 1: was not swabbed for urine because ESR doesn't have that

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Speaker 1: kind of chemical test.

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Speaker 3: There may be some tests available internationally. I know that

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Speaker 3: ESR investigated using the main test that was used by

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Speaker 3: the majority of the laboratories. We found that we got

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Speaker 3: false positives with hand sanitizers, so that's the test we

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Speaker 3: have access to. I'm to be fear I'm uncertain of

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Speaker 3: the availability of other tests.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, it wasn't swabbed, so it couldn't later be

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Speaker 2: tested correct.

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Speaker 3: No examination as such, and that for that manner was

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Speaker 3: carried out on the chair.

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Speaker 1: There was no obvious urine below her body, staining where

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Speaker 1: her body was removed. This testimony is important because of

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Speaker 1: Polkinghorn's account of finding his wife in a chair. He's

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Speaker 1: the only person with this account given. By the time

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Speaker 1: first responders arrived at the scene, she was lying on

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Speaker 1: the entranceway floor with a duvet over her a pillow

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Speaker 1: under her head. On re examination from Crown Solicitor Alicia McClintock,

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Speaker 1: Matheson was asked about a scenario where Hannah died lying down.

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Speaker 1: She said she's not confident she could say given the

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Speaker 1: variables she'd have to consider, like how much urine had

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Speaker 1: been released or the path of it. She's also not

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Speaker 1: sure she would have seen urine staining on the chair

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Speaker 1: or floor of the entrance way, and what about under

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Speaker 1: the chair?

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Speaker 3: Did you lock them under the chair as well? Yet, certainly,

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Speaker 3: as we talked about I was down looking at that

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Speaker 3: general area, there was no specific staining noted on the

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Speaker 3: ground in that area.

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Speaker 1: The Crown then called ESR forensic scientist Nicholas Kerno, whom

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Speaker 1: Matheson earlier mentioned would be better place to answer questions

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Speaker 1: around DNA. Both standard DNA analysis and the male specific

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Speaker 1: ystr analysis were done. This is where they look for

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Speaker 1: the Y chromosome only found in males. At the time,

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Speaker 1: the samples from Hannah's neck were given a weak positive

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Speaker 1: result and reported as possibly a blood stain. ESR has

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Speaker 1: since updated its guidelines, meaning this would now be reported

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Speaker 1: as inconclusive for blood. Kerno went through his analysis of

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Speaker 1: different samples taken from the Remuwaer home methodically. It included

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Speaker 1: a sample from the left side of Hannah's neck found

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Speaker 1: low level DNA from at least two people, explained by

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Speaker 1: mixing of DNA from Hannah and Polkinghorn. Probable blood from

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Speaker 1: the inner tip of the belt found in the kitchen

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Speaker 1: was found to have had low level DNA from two people,

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Speaker 1: a mix of Hannah and Polkinghorn.

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Speaker 4: The DNA detected in the probable blood from the plug

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Speaker 4: hole could have originated from mister Polkinhorn.

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Speaker 3: He also analyze a sample taken from the top of

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Speaker 3: the plug in that bathroom.

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Speaker 4: I did.

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Speaker 1: In was it using the standard DNA analysis?

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Speaker 4: Yes, belt please, the DNA detector could have originated from

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Speaker 4: mister Polkinhorn.

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Speaker 1: Mansfield asked Kerono why protocols changed? Why is probable now inconclusive?

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Speaker 1: Kerno said DNA testing is very sensitive and the male

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Speaker 1: specific test is even slightly more sensitive. They're also not

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Speaker 1: able to age DNA samples. Mansfield said, so it could

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Speaker 1: have been there for minutes, hours, or days, or even

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Speaker 1: much longer than that, to which Kern affirmed yes. The

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Speaker 1: trial continues tomorrow. You can listen to episodes of Accused

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Speaker 1: the Polkinghorn Trial through the front Page podcast feed or

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Speaker 1: find it on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: This series is presented and produced by me Chelsea Daniels

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Speaker 1: with producer Ethan Seles and sound engineer Patty Fox. And

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Speaker 1: for more coverage of the Polkinghorn trial head to enzidherld

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Speaker 1: dot co dot enz